AP - the fight for Playoff and HC spots.

Firstly my predictions are 75% at best historically so......

Quins – 58pts
Remaining fixtures: Bath (h), Sarries (a), Wasps (h), Tigers (h), Sale (a)
Prediction: 3 wins, 1LBP, 1TBP – 72pts

Saracens – 54pts
Remaining Fixtures: Sale (a), Quins (h), LI (a), Falcons (a), Exeter (h)
Prediction: 3wins, 1LBP – 67pts

Tigers – 50pts
Remaining Fixtures: LI (a), Worcester (h), Saints (a), Quins (a), Bath (h)
Predictions: 4wins, 2TBP – 68pts

Saints – 47pts
Remaining Fixtures: Wasps (h), Bath (a), Tigers (h), Exeter (a), Worcester (h)
Predictions: 4 wins, 2TBPs, 1 LBP – 66pts

Exeter – 45pts
Remaining fixtures: Gloucester (a), LI (h), Worcester (a), Saints (h), Saracens (a)
Predictions: 2 wins, 1LBP – 54pts

Gloucester – 41pts
Remaining Fixtures – Exeter (h), wasps (a), Falcons (h), Sale (h), LI (a)
Predictions: 4 wins, 2TBP – 59pts

Sale – 40pts
Remaining Fixtures – Saracens (h), Falcons (a), Bath (h), Gloucester (a), Quins (h)
Predictions: 2 wins, 1TBP, 1LBP – 50pts

Bath – 39pts
Remaining Fixtures – Quins (a), Saints (h), Sale (a), Wasps (h), Tigers (a)
Predictions 1 win, 1 TBP, 2LBPs – 46pts


this would give us semis of:

Quins v Saints
Tigers v Sarries

with Gloucester and Exeter sealing HC spots.

I think the play off places are a done deal now sadly. I can't see the Chiefs or Gloucester breaking in now which is a shame. Would love to have seen either of or both of those sides make it for different reasons.

Gloucesters remaining fixtures give them a decent shout, but theres a fair bit of ground to make up.

LondonTiger I personally can't see Tigers overhauling Saracens with Quins and Saints away. Of course I am biased

As long as we make the playoffs I don't care though. We can beat any side home or away anyway.

I would like to meet Tigers in the final again though.

The Heineken Cup should be the target. I genuinely feel that Saracens can win it. Of course we aren't the favourites but with potential home advantage the whole way who knows.

Gloucester's away form is likely to seriously hinder their progress.

I think Tigers are more than capable of overhauling Sarracens, and would be suprised if they didn't actually. Tigers it would seem are starting to gain some momentum, whereas it would seem that Quins, Saints and Sarries are running out of puff.

Sarries also have the added distraction of the Heineken Cup, whereas the Tigers focus will be 100% on the AP.

Of course Tigers can overhaul Saracens but with Quins and Saints away it's unlikely. I can see Tigers losing both.

Essentially in these last 5 games Tigers need more wins than Sarries. I can't see it personally.

Quins,Saints and Sarries losing puff? Rubbish.

Sarries should have really beaten Leicester and Worcester. Leicester did their customary stealing the win in the dying minutes. Two very narrow losses when ravaged by injuries and call ups is not bad.

Until Saints lost to Sarries people were saying Saints were the form side and praising them. One match changes little.

Quins are still top.

I feel thge top four are close to being nailed on now.

Quins will almost certainly top the table - it is then the fight for the other home semi. A lot will depend on how Sarries fare with tricky Friday night ties up north. The first one - against Sale will be crucial - and I can see them easily getting nothing from that game.

Tigers will struggle to get anything from the match with Saints - however I feel they have more than enough to win at the Stoop. Personally i would rather finish 4th and play away to quins than finish second and play Sarries at home. However to win teh title you have to win two massive games so makes little difference.

LondonTiger I agree.

Shame it seems unlikely we can overhaul Quins, the stupid losses to Tigers,Worcester and Wasps are down to that. Especially the Wasps one.

No one has really said it but poor London Irish!

They have

Saracens,Gloucester, Leicester at home.Exeter away.

Not sure about the other fixture.

Bath have some really horrific fixtures too!

Tigers are looking omminous, but with all our call ups and injuries it's no wonder Quins are struggling. Right now we're missing a large proportion of our starting team and suddenly there's a lot of pressure on a lot of very young players.

I hope that we'll get back on track post 6N's and manage to make a good attempt at the play offs. If we face Saints then I think we could sneak it, if it's the other two then it could be a bridge too far.

Saracens allow too many games to stay close on the scoreboard. Games they should have put to bed quite comfortably. By playing conservatively and not putting opponents to the sword when they have the chance means that at times they aloow teams to stay in teh match and sneak a win.

the HC pool games must have been nailbiting for fans - as excepting the first win over Treviso they won by tiny margins when frankly in most they should have been well clear.

Yappysnap large proportion of your starting team missing? Isn't it just Robshaw who has been starting for England?

You played a virtually full strength side vs Newcastle didn't you?

Look at the team sheet!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17195959

Only missing Robshaw.

You also had a close to full strength side vs Worcester.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17031114

Just Robshaw and JTH.

I don't blame call ups and injuries for Sarries losses. The games we lost we should have won. The guys on the pitch should have been good enough.

That's the difference.

LondonTiger wrote:Saracens allow too many games to stay close on the scoreboard. Games they should have put to bed quite comfortably. By playing conservatively and not putting opponents to the sword when they have the chance means that at times they aloow teams to stay in teh match and sneak a win.

the HC pool games must have been nailbiting for fans - as excepting the first win over Treviso they won by tiny margins when frankly in most they should have been well clear.

Absolutely agree. Seen it so many times. Can be very frustating. Luckily very few sides can overhaul us when we are in front. Unfortunately Leicester love to break that rule. They have the unhealthy but very useful ability to play for 90 minutes and beyond! Leicester never ever give up. It's something I have a lot of respect for but hate it because they seem to save it just for us.

Sorry Beshocked, I was trying to be a little ironic after all the wailing and teeth gnashing from certain teams fans over the WC call ups affects on the league.

Robshaw is going to be a loss but we should be able to still do well without him.

What's really killing us is Evans being off form and this throwing our backs out of kilter. This then isn't helped by the pack still being a very large work in progress.

We always dip over this time of the season and thankfully we've done enough that it shouldn't affect us too much, hopefully come April/May we'll be clicking again.

beshocked wrote:Yappysnap large proportion of your starting team missing? Isn't it just Robshaw who has been starting for England?

You played a virtually full strength side vs Newcastle didn't you?

Look at the team sheet!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17195959

Only missing Robshaw.

You also had a close to full strength side vs Worcester.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17031114

Just Robshaw and JTH.

I don't blame call ups and injuries for Sarries losses. The games we lost we should have won. The guys on the pitch should have been good enough.

That's the difference.

I'd argue Maurie F too, but they were near to full strength sides. We are a bit of a fair-weather team though (though we can win ugly when we need to) so hopefully the Summer will be kind and we can play our natural game now! Also Evans is a little off-form, I feel we will be a lot more dangerous when he gets it back. As Sarries is at Wembley (going to watch with a strange assortment of friends- 2 Wasps fans, a Leeds fan, another Quins supporter, 6 true neutrals and a Welsh person who supports Ospreys) not actually at Sarries' home, I am hopeful we can turn them over and get some confidence for the Play-offs themselves. If we can get a win there and at the Stoop vs Tigers, I will feel much better about the play-offs. Beshocked says that Sarries can beat any side at home or away at the Finals, which is true, but the same apples to Leicester, Saints and Quins, who have proven it again Munster, Stade F and Toulouse. So hard to call...

BS,

Last season Tigers lost almost every game they played against a fellow top 4 opponent, from memory they had one draw against Glaws and the semi and home ganme against Saints.

This season they are stepping it up as ever in teh second half of the season and already have the scalps of the other 3 main contenders. Im certainly much more encouraged by their chances against the big sides this year than last.

I dod think the world cup may have cost them the chance to get second place though. Their fixtures are walkovers. Quind did well to bagthemselves a top two spot with their early season form. I doubt thatw ill translate into the trophy but it gives them the whip hand when t comes to the final.

I see the real final being a playoff semi between Tigers and Saracens at Vicarage Road ( or Wembley or wherever you decide is home that week)

Oh right yappysnap. Not saying you are personally blaming losses on call ups and injuries. Certain clubs do though.

Wembley is still a tough place for opposition to go to. Only Leinster have won there and that was narrow.

Not really the same the chequeredjersey.I think Leicester and Saracens have more of a chance to win away than Saints and Quins.

Quins don't have a good record vs either Leicester or Saracens recently.

beshocked wrote:Oh right yappysnap. Not saying you are personally blaming losses on call ups and injuries. Certain clubs do though.

Wembley is still a tough place for opposition to go to. Only Leinster have won there and that was narrow.

Not really the same the chequeredjersey.I think Leicester and Saracens have more of a chance to win away than Saints and Quins.

Quins don't have a good record vs either Leicester or Saracens recently.

At Play-off day you may be right- I will have a better idea after Wembley. But we know how to win silverware- the Amlin Cup Final is a big occasion to set up on. I think we will put away Saints at home then Sarries or Tigers would be slight favourites in the Final, but if you turn up with the wrong gameplan, we will put you away

My personal thoughts:

Saints have an excellent side but lack that top two inches.Not sure if it's down to the management, Lacking that extra player or two to really make a difference or something else. They are consistently up there fighting for silverware but look like they will be the bridesmaid never the bride.

They don't seem to have discovered the knack to win the most decisive games. Can they prove us all wrong by winning some major silverware?

Quins - a lot more mental strength than they had. Likely to top the AP. It is likely that they will have to topple one or two of their bogey sides to win the AP - Saracens and Leicester. Can they do it?

Leicester - have lost a bit of their aura but with recent results going their way are building up some momentum. Looking dangerous and with only the AP to focus on will be a tough side to stop.

Saracens - they win ugly but keep on doing it. Tough uncompromising side that like Leicester never gives in. An excellent head to head vs their top 4 rivals in the last two to three seasons which should hold them in good stead. HC could be a distraction though.

beshocked wrote:Of course Tigers can overhaul Saracens but with Quins and Saints away it's unlikely. I can see Tigers losing both.

Funnily enough, I can't.

[/quote] Essentially in these last 5 games Tigers need more wins than Sarries. I can't see it personally.[/quote]

Pesonally, I can.

[/quote] Quins,Saints and Sarries losing puff? Rubbish. [/quote]

I'm afraid it quite obviously isn't.

[/quote] Sarries should have really beaten Leicester and Worcester. Leicester did their customary stealing the win in the dying minutes. Two very narrow losses when ravaged by injuries and call ups is not bad.[/quote]

Coulda, Wulda, Shudda....but they didn't did they.

[/quote] Until Saints lost to Sarries people were saying Saints were the form side and praising them. One match changes little.[/quote]

On the contrary, it can change a whole season.

[/quote] Quins are still top [/quote]

About the only correct and objective statement you've made here.

Equo Troiano wrote:

beshocked wrote:Of course Tigers can overhaul Saracens but with Quins and Saints away it's unlikely. I can see Tigers losing both.

Funnily enough, I can't.

Essentially in these last 5 games Tigers need more wins than Sarries. I can't see it personally.[/quote]

Pesonally, I can.

[/quote] Quins,Saints and Sarries losing puff? Rubbish. [/quote]

I'm afraid it quite obviously isn't.

[/quote] Sarries should have really beaten Leicester and Worcester. Leicester did their customary stealing the win in the dying minutes. Two very narrow losses when ravaged by injuries and call ups is not bad.[/quote]

Coulda, Wulda, Shudda....but they didn't did they.

[/quote] Until Saints lost to Sarries people were saying Saints were the form side and praising them. One match changes little.[/quote]

On the contrary, it can change a whole season.

[/quote] Quins are still top [/quote]

About the only correct and objective statement you've made here.[/quote]

Correct statement? Bit arrogant of you to believe that everything you say is correct. Hardly surprising though as contempt and arrogance radiates from you in my opinion.

Quite obviously isn't? Again you believe you are the source of all knowledge.

One match in this context. All about context.

I bet you are that pillock Time for Trumpton and his other messed up forms.

Why is it all the serial WUM accounts on this board cant operate the quote function properly?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/tables/4776739.stm

Tigers are 4 points off Sarries. Tigers are in good form an motoring without the internationals and even better with them. Sarries have an injury or two and are struggling with numbers missing. I think Sarries may struggle over the next couple of games if Hodgson, Farrell and Barritt remain in the squad. That could hurt them and if Tigers can secure some bonus points (which they are more likely to than Sarries) they might just sneak past.

As a Tigers fan I certainly don't want to be playing Sarries away. I want them to play at Welford Rd against a full strength side with 24,000 fans urging them on. It will be a big test of Sarries mettle and to be honest our only chance to beat them. I can't see us beating Sarries in the final or in Watford. Quins and Saints won't do us a favour and put them out either so it's up to us to get them in a home semi.

You might be right. You might be wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree. Don't assume that you are correct though.

PSW are you honestly calling me a WUM?

I can be provocative and biased but most posters are.

Saracens aren't unbeatable. I don't think Tigers have anything to fear from them based upon current for, either at Sickeridge Rd or at home.

Quite clearly, the top sides have lost a bit of steam, because if you look at the relative positions of the top 4 now when compared to where they where just after the WC, then it seems obvious to me that some are slowing, whist some are picking up speed.

Sam fair points. Yes maybe you are right. Maybe Leicester could sneak past. We'll have to wait and see. Can see the lack of bonus points hurting us again. That loss at home to you could be decisive.

I certainly wouldn't want to face Tigers at WR. Would much prefer Saints or Quins.

beshocked wrote:Sam fair points. Yes maybe you are right. Maybe Leicester could sneak past. We'll have to wait and see.

So you concede that actually, what I said was right then?

equo troiana

true Saracens aren't unbeatable.Neither are Tigers though.

If you didn't notice most of the Saracens-Tigers are very close irrespective of who plays in each game. Home or away,Twickenham etc.

Yes Tigers won the last game but that's just one game.

Equo Troiano wrote:

beshocked wrote:Sam fair points. Yes maybe you are right. Maybe Leicester could sneak past. We'll have to wait and see.

So you concede that actually, what I said was right then?

Right or wrong? Whatever.We won't know if you are right till what you say actually happens if indeed it does.

Yours is just an opinion like mine and Sam's.

beshocked wrote:equo troiana

true Saracens aren't unbeatable.Neither are Tigers though.

If you didn't notice most of the Saracens-Tigers are very close irrespective of who plays in each game. Home or away,Twickenham etc.

Yes Tigers won the last game but that's just one game.

It is true that Saracens are something of a bogey side for Leicester. Right now though, I'd back Tigers to break that run and beat Saracens home or away. I don't think it will be a question of sneaking past either, I think Tigers will finish second comfortably.

Saints have a few tricky fixtures. Glos still have a shout I think, but will need TBP in all home games. Would probably get nullified in the semis anyway. HC spot will do me.

beshocked wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:

beshocked wrote:Sam fair points. Yes maybe you are right. Maybe Leicester could sneak past. We'll have to wait and see.

So you concede that actually, what I said was right then?

Right or wrong? Whatever.We won't know if you are right till what you say actually happens if indeed it does.

Yours is just an opinion like mine and Sam's.

However, you saw fit to lambast me for making the exact same comment. So you're conceding that you agree with what i said, in which case, you ought to apologise instead of getting your knickers in a twist, because, as you rightly say, its just opinion.

EnglishReign wrote:Saints have a few tricky fixtures. Glos still have a shout I think, but will need TBP in all home games. Would probably get nullified in the semis anyway. HC spot will do me.

Glaws home and away form are baffling really. They were unlucky with some key decisions yesterday, but that doesn't alter the fact that they were bested in every single facet of play, yet the match at Kingsholm yielded a 41 all thriller!

Equo Troiana you are of course entitled to your opinion. Just don't be too surprised if you are wrong.

Agree with that Englishreign.

Equo Troiano wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:

beshocked wrote:Sam fair points. Yes maybe you are right. Maybe Leicester could sneak past. We'll have to wait and see.

So you concede that actually, what I said was right then?

Right or wrong? Whatever.We won't know if you are right till what you say actually happens if indeed it does.

Yours is just an opinion like mine and Sam's.

However, you saw fit to lambast me for making the exact same comment. So you're conceding that you agree with what i said, in which case, you ought to apologise instead of getting your knickers in a twist, because, as you rightly say, its just opinion.

There is a huge difference between you and Sam. Don't see the need to apologise to someone who is more blinkered than myself!

Therefore I wont feel the need to cease pointing out Saracens' frailties (there aren't many i'll agree), however, whether you're in cloud cuckoo land or not shouldn't be our problem.

Equo Troiano wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Saints have a few tricky fixtures. Glos still have a shout I think, but will need TBP in all home games. Would probably get nullified in the semis anyway. HC spot will do me.

Glaws home and away form are baffling really. They were unlucky with some key decisions yesterday, but that doesn't alter the fact that they were bested in every single facet of play, yet the match at Kingsholm yielded a 41 all thriller!

It was actually last year at Welford Road that the epic 41-41 occured! The thing with Glaws is, apart from yesterday they generally play well enough to win away from home but just don't get the results (see Toulouse, Sarries, Worcester). Whereas Kingsholm usually yields the points in our favour even if we're playing badly (see Connacht).

It nearly happened again at Bath where Glaws were awesome but couldn't finish simple chances, shame really.

equo troiano or time for trumpton or whatever you call yourself these days you can do whatever you want.

If I disagree or the mods do then that's fine too.

All we (you and I) can agree on is to disagree.

You can disagree without insinuating that people (whoever they are) are 'pillocks', just because you think it adds dramatic effect...