An expanded European International competition.

I'd like to see at least three divisions of European competition with promotion and relegation (even if that means a playoff between the bottom of one vs the top of the next league down (possibly played at the lower team's ground).

I would like to see 3x4 Nations leagues. It would mean some form of a ground attendance profit sharing scheme to subsidise lower division teams.
Played H&A in the same 6Ns window (i.e. one more game per side).

It would mean the 6Ns turkeys having to vote for Christmas, but how the hell else are the T2 nations going to break through the glass ceiling?

Fraught with impracticalities I know but div 3 sides don't have to play in 6Ns window though...

I agree that there should be a clear pathway between the top and bottom but the issue is why would any of the 6N (and Italy and Scotland in particular) ever vote for it? You especially cant imagine them being keen on the leagues of 4 you suggest!


But if there was a way to force it through, I would like to see the wooden spoon team play a play-off against the top 6 Nations B team. This would allow lower ranked teams to see a clear path to the top whilst also insuring that if they werent up to 6N standard, they wouldnt get through.

you might struggle to convince the original 5 nations to agree to a 4 nation league.

It has merit from a Rugby viewpoint - but would increase the number of games, especially for the teams involved in a play-off which I guess would also be home and away.

As always the biggest money earner is TV and Spnsorship/advertising revenues. To maximise this the companies forking out their dosh will want to have the biggest audience possible so would certainly be less inclined to invest if there was a chance that the two biggest markets England/France were at risk.

So if the moneymen nor the "6N turkeys" are unlikely to back it - it is a non-starter.

Possible solution - keep 6Ns, but at the same time run a competition containing the 4 6Ns teams that run an A side and the two best FIRA teams full sides.

So this would be:

Saxons
Wolfhounds
Scotland A
Italy A
Georgia
Romania.

This gives the A teams a meaningfull competition and the FIRA teams will get a playoff against the bottom 6N side should they win the competition.

Of course we cannot allow two teams from one country in a league - so should Eng/Sco/Ire or Italy be relegated - their A side would also be relegated.

I think as rugby continues to grow...as teams like Georgia and Russia etc improve and other teams ...we will be looking at moving to a competition every two years...or even 3years with more teams in it...like Footballs Euro Championship.

Wont happen for a while yet..and i suspect there maybe additions to the 6 nations first......but it will happen...eventually.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think as rugby continues to grow...as teams like Georgia and Russia etc improve and other teams ...we will be looking at moving to a competition every two years...or even 3years with more teams in it...like Footballs Euro Championship.

Wont happen for a while yet..and i suspect there maybe additions to the 6 nations first......but it will happen...eventually.

We've already had Romania, Portugal, Spain, Belgium, etc. been frustrated by a glass ceiling.

We lucky few sitting in the 6Ns (or SH 4Ns) franchises leave the portcullis down and the drawbridge raised against any threat.

And so remain an interesting footnote in World sport.

Portnoy - Its a great idea and if IRB as a whole are serious about growing Rugby into a truely competitive global game they do need address this issue.

I remember in the early/mid 90's Romania had a very good team but lack of games against good opposition knocked them back into oblivion. Currently there is big potential in Romania again, Georgia are improving. Apparently there is quiet a bit of investment in the game in Russia. This will all be wasted if these countries to not get some level of exposure to the top teams and a decent competition between themselves which will allow for progressing to the next level should they reach it.

This is not just a 6N thing. There seems to be a good appetite for the game globally (mostly based on info from friends of mine who are travelling by the way - not claiming I have a global insight!!). There are also South/central american teams who need a similar exposure to top level teams.

I don't think we'll get anything like you are suggesting anytime soon Portnoy - but the IRB could look at running a tournament in parallel with the 6N for the lower ranked teams - it would at leats be a start and it would give these teams a decent format and enough games for them to improve.

Bathman_in_London wrote:I would like to see the wooden spoon team play a play-off against the top 6 Nations B team. This would allow lower ranked teams to see a clear path to the top whilst also insuring that if they werent up to 6N standard, they wouldnt get through.

To me that is the most logical way of doing things. That way only teams worthy of being at the top table get to it, and at the same time stopping some sides from constantly being promoted then relegated then promoted over and over year after year.

Red Right wrote:the IRB could look at running a tournament in parallel with the 6N for the lower ranked teams - it would at leats be a start and it would give these teams a decent format and enough games for them to improve.

Isn't there the Euronations Cup or something along those lines that has Russia, Georga, Romania, and Ukrane (i believe) in it that runs once a year?

Portnoy - have a look at this http://www.fira-aer-rugby.com/competition-1.htm is this the sort of hting you are proposing, but with the 6Ns teams in too?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Portnoy - have a look at this http://www.fira-aer-rugby.com/competition-1.htm is this the sort of hting you are proposing, but with the 6Ns teams in too?

Of course it is.

The strangle-hold of T1 countries is nothing short of Imperialistic. It upholds every means and mechanism available to perpetuate self-interest whilst facilitating the exploitation of the Third World (T2 and lower nations) resources.

Unless the artificial barriers are removed, there is no chance that the game can pretend to be global.

Sorry to call the Celtic nations and SH teams Imperialistic, but in rugby that's exactly what they are being (along with England and France who are well versed in the process).

Portnoy wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Portnoy - have a look at this http://www.fira-aer-rugby.com/competition-1.htm is this the sort of hting you are proposing, but with the 6Ns teams in too?

Of course it is.

The strangle-hold of T1 countries is nothing short of Imperialistic. It upholds every means and mechanism available to perpetuate self-interest whilst facilitating the exploitation of the Third World (T2 and lower nations) resources.

Unless the artificial barriers are removed, there is no chance that the game can pretend to be global.

Sorry to call the Celtic nations and SH teams Imperialistic, but in rugby that's exactly what they are being (along with England and France who are well versed in the process).

To be perfectly fair I can't see why we can't just lump the 6Ns onto the top of that, and have a promotion/relegation play-off between the bottom 6N and the top ENC with the winner in the following seasons 6Ns and the loser in the following seasons ENC.

Because of the self-interest issue, Scarlet.

A 4-Ns league system would be better as H/A games can be played to unpick the anomaly of odd-even year fixtures.

GeordieFalcon wrote:
I think as rugby continues to grow...as teams like Georgia and Russia etc improve and other teams ...we will be looking at moving to a competition every two years...or even 3years with more teams in it...like Footballs Euro Championship.

Wont happen for a while yet..and i suspect there maybe additions to the 6 nations first......but it will happen...eventually.



We've already had Romania, Portugal, Spain, Belgium, etc. been frustrated by a glass ceiling.

We lucky few sitting in the 6Ns (or SH 4Ns) franchises leave the portcullis down and the drawbridge raised against any threat.

And so remain an interesting footnote in World sport.

Portnoy...i want to see more teams coming through...would love to see more competition between say England v Russia, Wales v Germany etc...great for the sport. Not just Europe but i want to see the African teams grow...Kenya, Nigeria

At present there is the Euro Nations cup. But my question would be HOW many current 6n would agree to relegation...and risk playing against lower nations teams which would inevitably result in cricket scores and a massive loss of revenue.

Some how maybe introducing a league with the Saxons, Wolfhounds etc in to the Euro Nations may work..and have the relegations and promotions between them.

Or you could change it all and have an NFL (American Football) style set up...

Quite honestly madness. International rugby income is fundamental to the maintaince of club rugby in the Celtic countries.

Given current strengths you might as well hold the funeral of Scottish rugby now. Also would stunt Italian growth just as they are improving

Far better to reduce the number of club games and expand the 6N into 7N when a team is ready - Georgia are the obvious choice.

geoff998rugby wrote:Quite honestly madness. International rugby income is fundamental to the maintaince of club rugby in the Celtic countries.

Given current strengths you might as well hold the funeral of Scottish rugby now. Also would stunt Italian growth just as they are improving

Far better to reduce the number of club games and expand the 6N into 7N when a team is ready - Georgia are the obvious choice.

So to add another basement glass ceiling would improve that? Where then?

Why not give a dog a bone to sniff?

If the idea is to grow international rugby in europe then why not split it into pools, similar to what the Heienken cup is.

They can use a seeding system at a given date, let's say the seedings work on the ranking of the teams at the end of June every year for the follwoing year's pools.

so if you looked at 2011 June rankings for the seedings for 2012.

If it expands to 8 teams, you can have home and away fixtures, which will take 6 weeks, plus a semi final and final, totalling 8 weeks.

Pool 1
1. Ireland
4. Wales
5. Scotland
8. Romania

Pool 2
2. England
3. France
6. Italy
7. Georgia

Log leader of pool one plays second place of pool 2, and log leader of pool 2 plays second placed team from pool A.

If both log leaders get through the semi final, then the tem with the highest log points get the home final, altenratively if only one log leader wins the semi, they automatically get the home final.

This will almost be like a mini european version world cup.

The top 8 ranked teams in europe qualify for it, so it is open to any of the european countries who will then have to be in the top 8 to qualify for the tournament.

If the seedings are done at the end of June it provides enough time to schedule matches, prepare and manage players and will add a lot of excitement to the tournament

LondonTiger wrote:Possible solution - keep 6Ns, but at the same time run a competition containing the 4 6Ns teams that run an A side and the two best FIRA teams full sides.

So this would be:

Saxons
Wolfhounds
Scotland A
Italy A
Georgia
Romania.

This gives the A teams a meaningfull competition and the FIRA teams will get a playoff against the bottom 6N side should they win the competition.

I like the sound of this LT. For the first few years you would not event have to address promotion it would take a few seasons for the FIRA teams to make the required improvements - so really it should not cause any issues for the current 6N unions. Were Wales and France to include A teams to this format you could potentially have 2 groups of 4 - maybe also include Russia who are improving and one other team (Spain I think based on Rankings but not sure).

biltongbek wrote:If the idea is to grow international rugby in europe then why not split it into pools, similar to what the Heienken cup is.

They can use a seeding system at a given date, let's say the seedings work on the ranking of the teams at the end of June every year for the follwoing year's pools.

so if you looked at 2011 June rankings for the seedings for 2012.

If it expands to 8 teams, you can have home and away fixtures, which will take 6 weeks, plus a semi final and final, totalling 8 weeks.

Pool 1
1. Ireland
4. Wales
5. Scotland
8. Romania

Pool 2
2. England
3. France
6. Italy
7. Georgia

Log leader of pool one plays second place of pool 2, and log leader of pool 2 plays second placed team from pool A.

If both log leaders get through the semi final, then the tem with the highest log points get the home final, altenratively if only one log leader wins the semi, they automatically get the home final.

This will almost be like a mini european version world cup.

The top 8 ranked teams in europe qualify for it, so it is open to any of the european countries who will then have to be in the top 8 to qualify for the tournament.

If the seedings are done at the end of June it provides enough time to schedule matches, prepare and manage players and will add a lot of excitement to the tournament

Be interesting to hear a SH version Biltong...

Well there is one thing for sure, with the 6N where it is in the calendar right now this is dead in the water unless you want to discourage the big clubs employing the T2 nations players. This would mean that the 6N would have to move to the end of the year after the club games have finished, possibly a good idea.

I like the idea of expanding rugby as far as possible but (possibly being Scottish) the idea of loosing some of the established names is a big worry. I know that if Scotland went down that would be the end of our participation in and top competitions as we are struggling now.

Before anyone else suggests that is too bad just remember it was not that long ago that Ireland and Wales were in our positions. Even now a few bad generations and they could be straight back there (though with the structures they have put in place this is less likely).

As much as I love the game without Scottish participation for a few years the 6N would become like the Lions or the super 15, good to watch now and again but I would not worry too much if I miss it.

Well if you were going to go on the world rankings similar to the European one, then the only difference would be the date of ranking used, I would think end of december would be the best one.

So working on that principal, it will be.

Pool 1
1. NZ
4. ARG
5. FIJI
8. TONGA

Pool 2
2. OZ
3. SA
6. SAM
7. JAP

The rest can work exactly the same basis.

What I like about this method is the rankings are the qualifying criteria, so it is open to those teams who qualify, and this means they get an opportunity to play top teams, could cause an upset and climb in the rankings. Then it is not limited to only top teams for either NH or SH in the tournament.

Portnoy wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Portnoy - have a look at this http://www.fira-aer-rugby.com/competition-1.htm is this the sort of hting you are proposing, but with the 6Ns teams in too?

Of course it is.

The strangle-hold of T1 countries is nothing short of Imperialistic. It upholds every means and mechanism available to perpetuate self-interest whilst facilitating the exploitation of the Third World (T2 and lower nations) resources.

Unless the artificial barriers are removed, there is no chance that the game can pretend to be global.

Sorry to call the Celtic nations and SH teams Imperialistic, but in rugby that's exactly what they are being (along with England and France who are well versed in the process).

Imperialism is oppressive - it walks in and takes over. Imperialism would be us in the Six Nations demanding that the Tier 2 sides play us, so that we could increase our revenues in having yearly games with Russia, Romania or Georgia and in the process showing them up with our world class abilities.

Survivalism is Joined Up Thinking. - It wants to keep the club small so that we won't get chewed up by the countries with money, resources, oil, billionaire sugardaddies, and some ready made marketing managers dream populations.

You call survival instincts Imperialism if you want to - but for me, Six Nations is the survival of a sport on this island of Ireland. You want an extended International season of promotion and relegation well then also hand out the nooses to some of us whilst you're at it... and point us to the nearest tree.

Why can't the Tier 2 Europeans just have a similar club as the Six Nations. Call it the Four or Five Nations or the Eastern Nations. Have them play each other, have them bring each other's quality up year by year, let them become a competing challenge for money and influence in Europe; and then let them prove that they have overtaken us by beating us at WCs, where all the worlds nations collide that come from existing 'Nations clubs'. If we sink on those terms then so be it.

But do they need to be part of our club to develop each other? Thats rather like saying we should be allowed join The SH Championship so that we can better improve our standards and be in a better position to beat them at WCs.

The 6N are not going to give up their most lucrative income stream.

Above it was suggest Ireland play a season without a game against France and England guaranteed - never ever going to happen.
Without these games the money TV is prepared to pay will drop - what is being proposed will be less attractive to them

Expanding a tournament as and when teams are ready is the way to go

Happened with France
Happened with Italy
Should happen with Georgia in the next 5 years.

Just an idle thought, but I wonder what would happen if England and France decided that they want to retain more of the income that their populations generate for 6N instead of sharing it equally, and go off into a new competition with, say, Russia, Georgia, Spain and Portugal (or whoever can put out a semi-decent team and bring a decent income, or potentially decent income, with them).

A viable alternative to the current status quo is to introduce a European Cup - scrap the 6N & ENC once every 4 years, and have a competition in a similar format to RWC. There should be enough interest to generate the income to feed professional rugby and, as the interest grows, it will provide the opportunity to feed tier 2 nations into the 6N, probably in a promotion/relegation scenario, given that 7N would seriously strain the fixture schedule.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote: Just an idle thought, but I wonder what would happen if England and France decided that they want to retain more of the income that their populations generate for 6N instead of sharing it equally, and go off into a new competition with, say, Russia, Georgia, Spain and Portugal (or whoever can put out a semi-decent team and bring a decent income, or potentially decent income, with them).

Financial madness due to reduced TV issues and lack of public interest in most games.
Ulster beat Portugal 57-0 recently. They were the worse side Ulster have ever played

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:A viable alternative to the current status quo is to introduce a European Cup - scrap the 6N & ENC once every 4 years, and have a competition in a similar format to RWC. There should be enough interest to generate the income to feed professional rugby and, as the interest grows, it will provide the opportunity to feed tier 2 nations into the 6N, probably in a promotion/relegation scenario, given that 7N would seriously strain the fixture schedule.

Now that actually is a very interesting idea and has , I reckon, a lot of merit.
I would suggest 16 nations of 4 teams a group.
So a total of 6 matches for finalist - only 1 more than at present in the 6N

geoff998rugby wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote: Just an idle thought, but I wonder what would happen if England and France decided that they want to retain more of the income that their populations generate for 6N instead of sharing it equally, and go off into a new competition with, say, Russia, Georgia, Spain and Portugal (or whoever can put out a semi-decent team and bring a decent income, or potentially decent income, with them).

Finacial madness due to TV issues and who wants to watch a match against Portugal.
Ulster beat them 57-0 recently. They were the worse side Ulster have ever played

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:A viable alternative to the current status quo is to introduce a European Cup - scrap the 6N & ENC once every 4 years, and have a competition in a similar format to RWC. There should be enough interest to generate the income to feed professional rugby and, as the interest grows, it will provide the opportunity to feed tier 2 nations into the 6N, probably in a promotion/relegation scenario, given that 7N would seriously strain the fixture schedule.

Now that actually is a very interesting idea and has , I reckon, a lot of merit.
I would suggest 16 nations of 4 teams a group.
So a total of 6 matches for finalist - only 1 more than at present in the 6N

Great. No problem. But how does that help the T2 nations in the other three years?

Entry would still be barred.

The root of the problem is self-interest which denies opportunity.

And whilst I'm at it maybe rather than a N/S hemisphere debate, maybe it should be a time zone one in which Argentina sits more logically in the West and Japan in the East.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:A viable alternative to the current status quo is to introduce a European Cup - scrap the 6N & ENC once every 4 years, and have a competition in a similar format to RWC. There should be enough interest to generate the income to feed professional rugby and, as the interest grows, it will provide the opportunity to feed tier 2 nations into the 6N, probably in a promotion/relegation scenario, given that 7N would seriously strain the fixture schedule.

Now that actually is a very interesting idea and has , I reckon, a lot of merit.
I would suggest 16 nations of 4 teams a group.
So a total of 6 matches for finalist - only 1 more than at present in the 6N

Also it could be moved around the continent in order to improve the interest in rugby. I appreciate the stadiums may not be the best in say Romanis, but they do have football stadium that should be able to deal with it.

A viable alternative to the current status quo is to introduce a European Cup - scrap the 6N & ENC once every 4 years, and have a competition in a similar format to RWC. There should be enough interest to generate the income to feed professional rugby and, as the interest grows, it will provide the opportunity to feed tier 2 nations into the 6N, probably in a promotion/relegation scenario, given that 7N would seriously strain the fixture schedule.

Thats one of the best solutions for the moment...

Plus having an expanding WC in the middle means the ECN teams will still get competition between then aswell.

Great. No problem. But how does that help the T2 nations in the other three years?

Entry would still be barred.

Portnoy, How would entry be barred? It could be based on the WC performance...and their performance in the previous ECN's (which of course is promotion / relegation based. )

How would any T2 nation break through to the 6Ns?

The only way would to replace the 6Ns with divisional contests. As per OP.

Portnoy wrote:How would any T2 nation break through to the 6Ns?

The only way would to replace the 6Ns with divisional contests. As per OP.

1) There is no way any current 6n team is gonna give up revenue by allowing promotion and relegation...so thats out the question.

2) Who is ACTUALLY good enough to make the 6n. Maybe Georgia & possibly Russia. Most of the b teams were hammered in the past WC's...so is taking a kicking remotely benefitial...as opposed to say playing the development sides from England, Ireland, Wales etc where it would be a real good game for them and give the developing players from the homes nations a good standard of games also.

And destroy Scottish rugby and stifle Italian rugby - great

Fortunately the OP is pie in the sky and will never happen

geoff998rugby wrote:And destroy Scottish rugby and stifle Italian rugby - great

Fortunately the OP is pie in the sky and will never happen

As was pointed out in the OP.

But

If we genuinely want a global sport, how else will it occur without removing the barriers to entry?

Name me a Global sport that has restrictive frontiers - Golf?, Tennis?, Athletics?, Football (especially)?

Portnoy wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:And destroy Scottish rugby and stifle Italian rugby - great

Fortunately the OP is pie in the sky and will never happen

As was pointed out in the OP.

But

If we genuinely want a global sport, how else will it occur without removing the barriers to entry?

Name me a Global sport that has restrictive frontiers - Golf?, Tennis?, Athletics?, Football (especially)?

Well, they do have restrictive frontiers, perhaps bigger ones because of the popularity but real ones nonetheless.

African athletes don't compete for European titles. Cricket is still pretty much a closed shop for the 'elites'. You won't see a Japan competing in this year's UEFA's EUROs. All sports (especially team ones) have slots they fit into.

You seem to think the 6N is the blueribbon event and other sides suffer unfairly by not getting a chance to play in it. I say it is a defined club of Nations that wanted to play together because of proximity. That it's successful is neither here nor there. The success of the 6N does not impede the growth or continued existence of other European rugby nations. If they want their own club to compete against 6N, so be it - do it. We are not keeping anybody down...just doing our own thing.

Yes we need progression...BUT...like i keep saying it needs to be done (and i actually believe it IS being done) gradually.

What are Georgian or Russian players going to achieve being humped by cricket scores?

They will gain so much more playing our development sides where they will be far more competitve and actually GAIN something out of it.

The ENC has proved that progression is happening...as it is in the 5 and 6 nation championships in Asia, South America, Africa etc. It just takes time.

There has been a huge progression from even 10 years ago.

I wasn't talking about Africa or America or Anywherelsia. I was talking about Europe.

It is pertinent to the other parts of the world, but it's most important to keep your own front doorstep scrubbed.

Financially I can see the imperative of the 6Ns and if they want to keep it like that then sobeit.

But the game wont grow...

Geordie "What are Georgian or Russian players going to achieve being humped by cricket scores?"

Do you think that that would occur in a 4Ns div 2 vs (say) Italy and Scotland?)

Even against them...there could be some heavy scores yes...

Also i know you were talking about Europe..but i was using elsewhere as an example.

Everywhere is progressing. Its not going to happen overnight....But the teams are getting closer...and the even younger teams...the Czech republic, Germany etc are improving rapidly...

It might be MORE practical initially to get the major club teams of these nations playing against the top European clubs more regularly in the HC and the other one.

Or even create another version of the Magners...to contain Polish, Russian, Georgian, Spanish teams etc..

Theres all sorts...

I really wouldn't want too much tampering with the 6 nations which for me remains the crown jewels of sport - I'd be okish with a 2nd tier of 6 and perhaps 2 up and 2 down but to separate the great rivalries would be a tragedy IMO

Portnoy wrote:I wasn't talking about Africa or America or Anywherelsia.

Nice one Portnoy.

Portnoy wrote:I wasn't talking about Africa or America or Anywherelsia. I was talking about Europe.

It is pertinent to the other parts of the world, but it's most important to keep your own front doorstep scrubbed.

Financially I can see the imperative of the 6Ns and if they want to keep it like that then sobeit.

But the game wont grow...

You can't dismiss a point simply because it cools the pointedness of one of yours.
Restrictions exist. They exist in more sports than Rugby. What was once Tri-Nations wasn't exclusive to one continent (Europe for example) it embraced two! But the idea wasn't about some benevolent gesture of nurturing a sport in two continents, it was a cold and selfish desire between three nations to compete together.

Six Nations helps quality enhancement between Six Nations sides. Another competition, within Europe itself, could asist quality enhancement between four or five more sides. We don't all have to be together just because a map says we're 'Europe'.

Not every sport has to follow the football bible. Rugby is a tougher game than football, the players can't play it as often, it has a higher attritional rate and needs more resources to 'build' players from school to the monsters they often become at Professional level. The toughness of the sport suggests it's better suited to small distinct groupings....so that success can be prolonged for those involved.

RubyGuby wrote:I really wouldn't want too much tampering with the 6 nations which for me remains the crown jewels of sport - I'd be okish with a 2nd tier of 6 and perhaps 2 up and 2 down but to separate the great rivalries would be a tragedy IMO

2 up 2 down would inevitably in its own turn 'separate the great rivalries'. Not sure though that Italy have done anything to gain a space in anyone's list in that respect - not even Scotland's...

But a divisional competition might.

It might but it would evolve that way over time and hence I would be able to accept that - Just my opinion

On a side note who do you think is going to show the 2nd division games ??? Will they be shown on the BBC ? don't think Sky would be interested or would it just be the internet or catch up with match reports ?

SGD prop wrote:On a side note who do you think is going to show the 2nd division games ??? Will they be shown on the BBC ? don't think Sky would be interested or would it just be the internet or catch up with match reports ?

Well if Wales ever went down to D2 Auntie would have to show it. That's the Crown Jewels law.

As for the rest of us in the race of mere mortals, well Sky has the Jeff2, so I suppose they might be interested. And there's ESPN.

And the rest of the broadcasting rights divvied up on a formula.

Portnoy wrote:

SGD prop wrote:On a side note who do you think is going to show the 2nd division games ??? Will they be shown on the BBC ? don't think Sky would be interested or would it just be the internet or catch up with match reports ?

Well if Wales ever went down to D2 Auntie would have to show it. That's the Crown Jewels law.

As for the rest of us in the race of mere mortals, well Sky has the Jeff2, so I suppose they might be interested. And there's ESPN.

And the rest of the broadcasting rights divvied up on a formula.

That's a bit glib - we can see now how second tier competitions are not a big draw, whether it's Amlin, RFU Championship, ENC or football equivalents.

Finance, of course, in this professional game is the key. The nations with the TV and sponsorship will break through - the trick is to encourage that TV and sponsorship without deleteriously affecting the income for the current big boys, or, at least, without disastriously affecting the current big boys.

7's in the olympics is giving rugby a big boost globally, and we know how it is releasing resources in big markets like Russia and USA. How much time to do we have to exploit this interest? Well, it's difficult to tell, but if we don't start throwing a little more than crumbs at these emerging markets, we run the risk of being left behind. The risk, in my view, is not being left behind in Xv's, but in 7's where a more transparent, TV friendly game could easily dominate a relatively stodgy, specialised game, and suck the fragile income fom Xv's. The analogy is t20 cricket v Test cricket. Cricket is fighting back, rugby must be prepared for the fight and not assume that the current comfy status quo will continue.

well up for this sort of idea.

I'd love to see a football style European Cup brought into existence.

Everyone laughed in 1987 at the rugby World Cup, but it has grown, everyone laughed at the football European Cup when it first came out.

The things grow over time, I think it could be fairly easy to do also.

Let the 6 nations teams use their A teams in it, and have each 6 Nations country host a pool, then split the 6 Nations B,C,D teams up on their placing so you'd have something like this.

Pool 1 (hosted by Wales)
Wales A
Georgia (6 Nations B)
Belgium (6 Nations C)
Croatia (6 Nations 2A)

Pool 2 (Hosted by Italy)
Italy A
Portugal (6 Nations B)
Netherlands (6 Nations C)
Latvia (6 Nations 2A)

Pool 3 (Hosted by France)
France A
Romania (6 Nations B)
Czech Republic (6 Nations C)
Lithuania (6 Nations 2A)

Pool 4 (Hosted by Scotland)
Scotland A
Russia (6 Nations B)
Germany (6 Nations C)
Sweden (6 Nations 2A)

Pool 5 (Hosted by Ireland)
Ireland A
Spain (6 Nations B)
Moldova (6 Nations C)
Malta (6 Nations 2A)

Pool 6 (Hosted by England)
England A
Ukraine (6 Nations B)
Poland (6 Nations C)
Switzerland (6 Nations 2B)

You could probably do this during the Lions tour, so the fans will have something to watch while the best players are away.

AlynDavies wrote:
You could probably do this during the Lions tour, so the fans will have something to watch while the best players are away.

Won't the fans be watching The Lions?

AlanDavies...

Thats exactly what i was talking about. And i think its a great idea.

Have it in between WC's. Every 4 years.

SecretFly wrote:Won't the fans be watching The Lions?

You might be, I will be watching Wales on tour in Japan!

Though I wouldn't mind our A team having a few games to help the smaller nations get competitive.