A European International Cup every 4 years is the next logical step?

WIth the issues surrounding expanding the annual 6 nations unlikely to be overcome, and the need to meet the opportunity of european international rugby expansion, a quad-annual tournemount is I think the answer. With the World cup cycle set in stone every 4 years, this new competiton should play similarily to its Football equivilent in the between years; 2017, 2021, 2025 etc. These are obviously the Lions dates, however I don't see this as a real issue going forward; one because the 4 Lions nations have the resources to provide competitive squads minus their call ups, and secondly because I think the Lions concept is an anachronism, a fact that is becoming more obvious the further the game ventures into the professional age. Yes there are many snouts in the Lions trough but the game is growing and moving on from its traditional roots. International tours are organised years in advance so this new competition will mean reorganising some existing agreements and will need sign off from the IRB to make full use of the development opportunity. As a commercial opportunity there is much going for it; Europe is rugby's largest economic area, and is already the games biggest wealth generator and as such the world cup generally comes back to europe every 8 years. There isn't a major international sporting tournement already filling this summer window.
Countries not already able to hold the worldcup will have the opportunity to develop the game and prove their worth as a future world cup destination. The competition format will be of 12 teams initially spilit into 4 pools of 3; Once everyone has played their pool games (total 12 games), dependent on their pool position they would move into one of three (1st,2nd & 3rd) sets to each play a semifinal and final(another 12 games). Idealy the tournemount will be over 4 week ends (3 weeks).

What do you all think?

I think the novelty of the Lions makes it a more attractive business model than what you propose.

How is it really any different from the 6 Nations three months previous?

Ultimately money talks and I can't imagine that such a tournament would be a major money making exercise for the unions or sponsors.

It would help the game grow within the smaller unions.
More exposure can only be a good thing.

Keep the Lions. The 6 nations should be expanded though to a second tier with promotion and relegation based on results over 2 seasons possibly (following the example from the top tier of Brazillian football).

I would love to see a European Cup style tournament during the World Cup Cycles....but not as a replacement to Lions tours...

There are a stream of European countries playing and some are getting to a decent standard - not much removed from Italy in reality, such as Georgia, Russia, Portugal, Spain,Romania, with Germany and a few others not far behind that.

Even if initially we sent our 'A' / Development teams...it would create an interest, give European teams exposure and rather than adding more fixtures to a full season it could maybe replace the 6n once every 4 years, or be done at the same time as a lions tour...a development competition...

4-5 Groups of 4 or 5

Pick teams from the current Euro Nations Cup (the 6n's B,C,D etc)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Nations_Cup_(rugby_union)#Current_divisions_.282012-2014.29

the winner of the six nations are the champs of Europe anyway. it'll be hard to have two tournaments in a year doing similar things.

If there was no 6 nations then this would be a great idea.

Thats true Dally,

We could name it the Euro Nations Challenge Cup...with the addition of the 6n 'A / Development' teams as most teams couldnt cope with the full 6n teams.

I think it could be very workable, and having the 6n teams in there is what creates the interest and marketing money which could then be reinvested in European Rugby.

You could make an argument that during lions tours that instead of reduced Scottish Welsh, Irish and English teams going on tours of Japan, USA, etc that they have a tournament.

However already An 'Emerging Ireland' team will participate in the inaugural IRB Tblisi Cup this summer in a tournament that also includes host team Georgia, Uruguay and a South Africa President's XV.

If 'Emerging England' 'Emerging Scotland', were added to the Division 1A European Nations Cup First Division teams, it would create a good development tournament,

Would't get much notice, or raise funds, but would help the other nations.

IRB should encourage 6 Nations teams to play European competationslike the Tblisi Cup during lions tours, and Invite Canada, USA etc

I think it's a great idea especially as during the Lions tour the Home nations are weakened and as a result tour "lesser" rugby nations. If the home nations were playing in a tournament it would mean that during a Lions year some of the rugby championship teams would have to play the pacific nations teams. I think the Six nations should be left well alone or at a push extend to seven or eight nations. The Six nations is great but only because of the local rivalry between bordering nations and the history of the tournament aside from that Georgia and Romania are the only ones who could compete with the Six nations teams and they're still miles off.
It would also help to familiarise the teams with knock-out rugby which would help in the World cup.

Here is what I'd like to see..

1) Reduce the domestic seasons.
2) Reduce autumn international tests. They're mostly meaningless matches.
3) Reduce summer tests. Again, meaningless matches that take a lot out of the players.

That would all shorten the season for clubs/provinces/regions which leads me onto my next point

4) Play more rugby against emerging European sides.
5) Create a new European tournament that runs every 4 years.
6) Have a long term goal of an 8 Nations competition with relegation.


Playing against European sides will result in a negative impact in the short term but long term it will bring great riches. Get sides like Belgium, Spain, Germany, Holland, Switzerland, Portugal up and they'll bring wealth into the game as well as something rugby needs - more variety! It would be only a few games a season against them too.


Italy are a good example. They've been very poor since they were accepted into the 6 nations but no doubt their presence has been good for European rugby and world rugby.


Another thing to do would be to have the emerging nations play off for the right to play in the next seasons 8 nations. The top 2 get in. That would result in only 2 extra games a season and it would break down the barrier between the tiers.

dallym wrote:the winner of the six nations are the champs of Europe anyway. it'll be hard to have two tournaments in a year doing similar things.

If there was no 6 nations then this would be a great idea.

No they're not. They're the winners of a closed competition that contains the best (historically) teams in Europe. If you want to claim best in Europe you have to win a competition that anyone in Europe could enter. Such a thing doesn't exist.

There already is a european nations league system. The often called 6nations b has russia, georgia, etc and there are 5 leagues below that too.
The best option would be to offer a play-off with the winner of 6natiins b versus the bottom team from the 6 nations to give some form of promotion.

Yeah its called the Euro Nations Cup Doddie..

The problem is no 6n member in their right mind is gonna allow for relegation and potentially lose all the money generated.

By having a cup type competition we can start to incorporate European teams into the main teams calendars (well A teams of Developing teams)...

Its important to try and bring on other countries in Europe but surely the best option is to have competitions involving second teams from the 6N sides and the best of the rest of Europe.

When another European team starts regularly beating our B teams surely its then that we start to talk about revamped 'premier' competitions. Whats the point of watching one of the 6N sides putting 60-70 points on Portugal - say.

The way sevens has gone shows that things can progress quickly - but its a big step up going from a competitive 7 to a competitive 15.

No 6N union would ever give up the prospect of playing each other for having russia or Belgium come to visit instead.
I wrote about creating a global competition, maintaining the 6N, rugby championship, pacific nations, and 6N B, the sacrifice would be for national squads to be season round so those players would need to be centrally contracted and miss national leagues, heineken cup etc. I think thats preferable to the mishmash of rugby we currently have.

I think having a European tournament in the Lions year would be good. Either sending 6n "a" teams initially or the teams that would be touring Japan, Argentina etc. I would go for a 16 team tournament with 4 pools of 4 top 2 through to cup and bottom 2 into a plate for knock out phase.

On a different note I think it is pretty insulting to Argentina that we (England) only seem to tour there during lions years and therefor send under strength sides. They are a tier 1 nation and should be treated as such, it will be our own fault if we get beaten by them.

Thanks all for your comments. I know there are well worn arguments around the idea especially with regards the fantastic competition which is the 6 nations, however I do believe somthing on these lines, a 4 year cycle european cup, will come to pass in the not to distant future.

Who doesn't want to see the Lions preserved though? One of the greatest events in sport imo. But this tour is crucial because if we lose it's been 20 years since we got a series win and we're going to NZ next up... Argentina needs to be added to the tour rotation in some form mind you.

I can see this European Championship instead of the Six Nations at some point however, in the same window.

If the public are interested in something they will pay to see it. No Union is going to support this if it disadvantages their current finances. If the RWC struggles to make money, how would this competition survive?

GeordieFalcon wrote:I would love to see a European Cup style tournament during the World Cup Cycles....but not as a replacement to Lions tours...

There are a stream of European countries playing and some are getting to a decent standard - not much removed from Italy in reality, such as Georgia, Russia, Portugal, Spain,Romania, with Germany and a few others not far behind that.

Even if initially we sent our 'A' / Development teams...it would create an interest, give European teams exposure and rather than adding more fixtures to a full season it could maybe replace the 6n once every 4 years, or be done at the same time as a lions tour...a development competition...

4-5 Groups of 4 or 5

Pick teams from the current Euro Nations Cup (the 6n's B,C,D etc)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Nations_Cup_(rugby_union)#Current_divisions_.282012-2014.29

These contries are nowhere near the standard of Italy, most of those nations get steamrolled when they do play the Tier 1 nations where as Italy at their worst give them a good game

Italy were promoted because they it was deemed they couldn't progress any further at the level they were at, these nations need time to grow and develop further

But Italy had the opportunity to play the top nations before they joined the 6 nations. They had matches against the 6n sides, Australia and NZ before they joined the 6nations. In the professional era that won't happen so some kind of cup would give that opportunity.