Bath vs Tigers at the Wreck in the LV Cup

Tigers are under dogs for this away trip to old rivals Bath. Head coach Richard Cockerill has promised some of the young guns who performed so well against Quins at the Stoop a run out against a Bath team desperate for a chance of HEC qualification. It's televised by Sky tomorrow night.

Leicester Tigers (v Bath Rugby, The Recreation Ground, Friday 7.30pm)
15 Scott Hamilton
14 Horacio Agulla
13 Andy Forsyth
12 Billy Twelvetreees
11 Alex Lewington
10 George Ford
9 James Grindal
1 Boris Stankovich
2 Rob Hawkins
3 Julian White
4 Calum Green
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Steve Mafi
7 Craig Newby (c)
8 Ben Pienaar

Replacements
16 Tom Youngs
17 Marcos Ayerza
18 Logoviii Mulipola
19 Julian Salvi
20 Thomas Waldrom
21 Scott Steele
22 Jeremy Staunton
23 Matt Smith

Bath Rugby:
15 Sam Vesty
14 Matt Banahan
13 Matt Carraro
12 Olly Barkley
11 Tom Biggs
10 Tom Heathcote
9 Michael Claassens
1 Charlie Beech
2 Lee Mears
3 Duncan Bell
4 Dave Attwood
5 Ryan Caldwell
6 Ben Skirving
7 Francois Louw (c)
8 Simon Taylor

Replacements
16 Pieter Dixon
17 David Flatman
18 Anthony Perenise
19 Guy Mercer
20 Carl Fearns
21 Chris Cook
22 Olly Woodburn
23 Jack Cuthbert

Banter (keep it light), predictions and matches to look out for?

Is Morris fit? Looked liek his hamstring had gone against Falcons.

With the pressure Cockerill is under, rumours abound that he will be sacked if tigers win nothing (dumb but.....), and rest weekends available during HC 1/4s and semis - I wonder if he will pick a marginallystronger team than the one you have predicted.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-Cockerill-ring-changes-Leicester-Tigers/story-15431201-detail/story.html

According to this interview probably not. He confirms Newbs will be captain (so no Geordan) and says that Green, Ford, Forsyth and Lewington will all be given a chance.

Good point about Morris I'd forgotten about his injury vs the Falcons, though I think it was his shoulder wasn't it?

Shouldn't Flood start this one? He needs the game time

No he doesn't, he was brilliant last weekend for Tigers against Gloucester and Tigers need to develop Ford more than they need to risk Flood's fitness in an LV Cup game.

See Cocker's interview (it's basically the two fingers to Lancaster):

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Toby-Flood-handed-time-regroup-Leicester-Tigers/story-15431199-detail/story.html

Interesting... Its just that since you're out of the HC i thought you might as well go out with full guns blazing for this one

I think we need to know more about some of the younger players before next season. Skivs is off in the summer as is Twelvetrees and we are shopping for a full back. Now if Green and Forsyth can step up that's second row and inside centre back up sorted and we don't have to spend. It looks likely both will be good enough but this will be an ideal tester, especially for Green who has had a nasty injury and hasn't got a new contract yet. Similarly if Lewington can show he is a good back three option going forward do we need to pursue Thomas from the Dragons?

Tigers will be focussing on the AP not the LV, Cockerill has only ever used it as a development tool and the young guys deserve their chance to try and make a statement.

Full strength bath team vs full strength i leicester team = leicester win, Full strength bath team vs development leicester team = bath win....Will be very happy to see a weakened leicester team coming to the rec.....bath need to win this !!

gowales wrote:Shouldn't Flood start this one? He needs the game time

Flood has proved his fitness and his form. There is no need for him to be playing in the LV cup, if we have decided not to go full strength. That he has been dropped from the England squad is purely down to Stuart Lancaster believing that Saracen's first choice stand-off (Hodgson) and second-choice (Farrell) are better players. The rights and wrongs of this are not for here and were being discussed on the Int board.

Youngs however is out of nick and still needs plenty of game time - but that will not happen as he has yet to be released.

Feeling pretty confident about a win, even though it will be a second string Tigers, as people have already said, HEC is crucial to next years plans and recruitment.

Seriously looking forward to Friday night beers in the pub

Not sure which of these two teams I want to win more.

If Scarlets beat Saints and make the final (a very big ask for us!), then if we meet Tigers, they'll be out for revenge from us beating them earlier on in the competition, and if we beat Bath they are likely to have a stronger side out as they are chasing HEC qualification. Hmmm.....

rugbydreamer wrote:Not sure which of these two teams I want to win more.

If Scarlets beat Saints and make the final (a very big ask for us!), then if we meet Tigers, they'll be out for revenge from us beating them earlier on in the competition, and if we beat Bath they are likely to have a stronger side out as they are chasing HEC qualification. Hmmm.....

I think for some reason the Saints will be out for revenge on Sunday too! Personally I would rather the final be Scarlets V Bath or Leicester V Northampton, as there seems to be more rivalary that way.

Cockerill has already said that if Tigers reach the final he'll be giving some of the younger guys a chance to bring home silverware. If that game is against Saints he might change his mind and strengthen the squad in certain areas as he is a man under pressure and beating your local rivals is always a good way of winning support.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Cockerill has already said that if Tigers reach the final he'll be giving some of the younger guys a chance to bring home silverware. If that game is against Saints he might change his mind and strengthen the squad in certain areas as he is a man under pressure and beating your local rivals is always a good way of winning support.

That is kind of why I think a Saints V Tigers or Bath V Scarlets final would be good. Saints and Tigers would want the bragging rights, and would not want to risk lossing face to the other, so even if they feilded weaker sides they would go tooth and nail for it, which makes good viewing , and can only be good for the tournaments reputation. And likewise with Scarlets and Bath, neither of us want to have to see the rag doll in the others possession, plus for Bath it is a HC spot, plus for us it could be another English scalp, so again the game would be taken a bit more seriously.

Firstly, how the hell does this tin pot warrant an HEC entry qualification?

Secondly, if the Tigers don't win this at a canter, then I'd be very surprised.

Portnoy - why do you think Tigers will win at a canter? Even at full strength I wouldn't say it would be a walkover.

I think it will be a close one, Of course being a Bath fan I'm not that confident of a win, but we've been showing signs of some sort of form of late, it will be close but I think Leicester will win by 7-10 points in the end.
Come on the BlueBlack and Whites.

Teams up:

http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/13551.php

I will not list them here, Sam can change the OP.

However looks like a stong forwards bench for Tigers. Hamilton, Agulla & grindal provide the experience in th backs.

Oh and no Flood, staunton is on the bench.

Great to see Ford, Forsyth and Lewington getting to play. Green and Pienaar also get a chance to prove a point. Oh, and Tom Youngs is back! Woo!

Bath are at full strength though, so this will be very tough. Hopefully we will play as well as we did against Quins.

Terrible shame that Mad Dog never made it for one final hurrah.

Good news that Tom Youngs is back in action, there's a lot of people hoping he'll answer some prayers at hooker.

I'd have preferred to see Alesana on the wing over Agulla, get the big man running at the Bath 10/12 channel. I'm sure Bath will try and manouvere Banahan into Ford at the first opportunity as well.

Great to see Tom Youngs back! Hope he gets some good game time! Should be a nice run-out for Ford too

Not sure Ford will see it as a nice run out up against Heathcote. There will be some real bragging rights going on there with both wanting to show the England age grade selectors who is the better 10.

Similarly expect Calum Green to be in Dave Attwood's face from the kick off. Green isn't the tallest lock going and he isn't a formidible ball carrier but he is aggressive and a real work horse. I'd expect he'll want to get on top of Attwood and keep him busy in the tight areas so as to not allow him chance to carry. Green will want to show he's up to AP level as he hasn't got a contract for next season yet.

Thanks Sam, I'll keep an eye out for Green, we could do with another lock as well!

Ford vs. Heathcote is a really interesting battle.

Looking forward to this one, Bath have picked one of the strongest selections available excluding injuries so I'd hope they can beat a 2nd string Tigers team but theres a lot of strength in depth at Leicester, it could be close.

Come on Bath, I havent been to a cup final where we won since 1996!

What a pleasant surprise to see a number of young English players starting. And not just that, they are playing in a Tigers team with enough experience elsewhere that it looks like Cockerill is trying to give them experience rather than just throwing loads of them in together to sink. Maybe he's learnt some lessons.

Heathcote vs Ford is a really interesting match-up: they could be rivals for the England shirt for a decade or more.

Well Dave, Cockers has said in interviews before that he is still learning how to be a DOR. It's good to see some of the former academy lads getting a run out. I think after Sam Harrison burst onto the scene this season Cockers felt that he wished he'd used him more last season. Hence he seems keen to get Ford in and playing now and seems to want Pienaar, Forsyth and Lewington to get more action. Disappointed there's still no sign of de Carpienter but I think he must be injured.

I feel sorry for Beech, he's a prop that flourishes in the loose more than the scrum but tonight he is going to be up against Julian White for 50 mins and the Mulipola will come off the bench.

I feel sorry for Beech, he's a prop that flourishes in the loose more than the scrum but tonight he is going to be up against Julian White for 50 mins and the Mulipola will come off the bench.

Well Sam...a prop should first and foremost be able to ....Prop

That is the Tigers mantra Geordie. Still he is a young prop so I would put his short comings down to him still learning. Julian White in his prime was the master and though the body may be a bit weaker the mind and skill set are still sharp.

Yeah i think we could do with another couple of Julians Whites coming through...for my club and country...

It will be a good test for Beech, he hasnt had as many chances this season as he would like I'm sure, being a similar player to Catt (who is a few years younger) hasnt helped him.

Ford against Heathcote will be a good match up, I havent really seen much of Ford in action, so will be good to see what all the hype is about. There are quite a few good young fly halves coming through the system so it should be an interesting few years to see which of them make it.

Well Geordie you will be pleased to know Fraiser Balmain the Northumbria born prop we pinched for our academy is off on the Tigers exchange programme with Clermont, so will have a very well rounded schooling on the nature of proping. Dan Cole is a fine scrummaging prop and Tigers are still working on Harris and Bower hopefully they'll step up next season. Should Brookes unbreak himself anytime soon there's another option there.

Battle of the 7s should be fun as well, Newby the All Black vs Louw the Bok. Will be interesting to see Banahan against Lewington as well, Banahan is all size and strength with the offload where as Lewington is pace and step with great footballing skills.

Interesting that both teams 7's are foreigners. It's a problem position for a number of teams, do either club have academy boys learning from these two?

Really looking forward to this match, I think it is the most open that a BathvLeicester game has been in a long time, I do still think Tigers will sneak it though.

Tigers have been struggling to develop a 7. Hamish Watson left in the summer to concentrate on the Scotland 7s team, Everard showed massive potential early on but as he grew older he didn't develop enough and so left for Wasps there is still Armes who is on the edge of the first team. A good Championship level player but I don't think he's bulked out enough for AP level as of yet. Don't think there is a 7 in the academy of any serious note though we have an 8 on the way through who looks impressive.

We're well stocked with Newby, Salvi and Woods at the moment though Pienaar who is playing 8 tonight can also play 6 and 7.

On the 7 front, Bath have Mercer, who has been talked up by fans as the next best thing and looked good in flashes last season but seems to have stalled a little this term. Admittedly as our pack has been going backwards for most of the season its been a tough environment to learn in, especially for a player who has more of the build of Martyn Williams that Sean O'Brien.

Having said that, both him and Josh Ovens remain good prospects for the future and learning off a player like Louw (who has been very good since he arrived) can only be a good thing.

Portnoy wrote:Firstly, how the hell does this tin pot warrant an HEC entry qualification?

Secondly, if the Tigers don't win this at a canter, then I'd be very surprised.

You'd best not take up bookmaking!!

Current prices on betfair:
Bath 1/3
Tigers 7/2

andyi wrote:

Portnoy wrote:Firstly, how the hell does this tin pot warrant an HEC entry qualification?

Secondly, if the Tigers don't win this at a canter, then I'd be very surprised.

You'd best not take up bookmaking!!

Current prices on betfair:
Bath 1/3
Tigers 7/2

current score Bath 3 Tigers 8.

After 30 mins.

Mind you. As the gobby Portnoy was typing, Bath score a sensational try.

Fair play to you Portnoy, Tigers giving it a good go and could nick this.

However, they were never going to "win at a canter"

As for Bath, if they can't beat a 2nd string at home they are sh*te and don't deserve to be anywhere near the HC.

They don't give a CL place for winning the FA cup let alone the Carling cup, although the Johnstones paint trophy would be fairer comparison with the Little Value cup

Well done the tigers. Their price has come in from what I backed, so iv'e laid at the shorter price for guaranteed profit whatever the result

Come on Bath!

what's the score now??

Tigers win 17-16

come on tigers!!!!!

brill game from Ford

Bath should of kept it a bit tighter!

ah no, changed my mind earlier and wanted Bath to win. Balls.

andyi wrote:Fair play to you Portnoy, Tigers giving it a good go and could nick this.

However, they were never going to "win at a canter"

As for Bath, if they can't beat a 2nd string at home they are sh*te and don't deserve to be anywhere near the HC.

They don't give a CL place for winning the FA cup let alone the Carling cup, although the Johnstones paint trophy would be fairer comparison with the Little Value cup

Did I say canter?

Must have been a typo. Should have said cantankerous.

not the first time Portney has been wrong and i doubt it will be his last :p

Should the Scarlets win their game I think they would have preferred to have faced Bath in the final.

Sir Ian McGeechan is unhappy with the final penalty that was reversed, he says the tigers player was binding on the arm.

Have to admit, i'm 99% certain he had a correct bind where as the bath player didn't. What does anyone else think?