Wales 24 v 3 Italy Millenium Stadium 10/3/12

2012 RBS 6 NATIONS CHAMPIONSHIP - ROUND 4

WALES V ITALY

MILLENIUM STADIUM 10/3/12 - 2.30

Referee: George Clancy
Assistants: Peter Fitzgibbon and Peter Allan
TMO: Graham Hughes
Citing Commissioner Mike Rafter

Attendance: 62,000

Man of the match - Alex Cuthbert
My choice - Ian Evans

Well, what an enigmatic game. Not quite the fable of the girl with the curl; the game was never very, very good. In fact it was riddled with unforced errors (many by Mr Clancy) but we were treated to the odd sublime flash of skill.

It was clear Wales wanted to start well. After the anthems they retreated to the try line for a last minute tackle bag session, a declaration of intent.

Alex Cuthbert, named man of the match by the BBC, was emblematic though of the first half. Anonymous in Twickenham he had been told to go looking for the ball. He popped up in midfield, broke the Italian line (no mean feat) caught cross kicks and created half chances. The offload was never quite on though, and the Italians were unstinting in their defence. Time after time Wales sent waves of attack at the Italian defences but the cracks didn't become breaches. North, Roberts, Davies, Faletau and Lydiate also broke the first line impressively, but the last line stayed stubbornly intact. Ian Evans carried up and made yards time after time. Parisse was again imperious, subduing the Welsh half backs by starving them of room and catching Halfpenny with a textbook cover tackle. All promising moves snuffed out. Cuthbert then fluffed a dolly catch. Inexplicable, but not apparently inexcusable. He provided the sublime and the ridiculous.

This could not be allowed to continue. The Sun was pleasantly warming the bones of a wintered people. A fine spring day to have the roof open. The stadium's shiny white ectoskeleton glinted in the sun. And whilst the stadium wasn't full, the attendees were in the mood for a party.

They would have to wait.

Wales lead 9-3 at half time.

The thigh slapping sumo wrestlers had thrown their salt into the ring. The bout had started with the wrestlers seemingly even, but the weight of Welsh possession and territory was about to tell.

10 minutes into the second half and the softening up process was continuing. Ghiraldini, the Italian hooker, was injured on his own ten yard line. As his treatment was coming to an end he may not have been aware of the sloppy pass thrown by his team mate on the other side of the pitch. Ghiraldini dragged himself off the floor to see Alun Wyn Jones and Ian Evans winning an excellent turn over on the floor with strong counter rucking. The Doctor left him and he hobbled into the defensive line as makeshift scrum half Justin Tipuric distributed. It was then that Priestland, like a cat eyeing a mouse, spotted him. He ran at his inside shoulder. Ghirhaldini squared up to offer the tackle as Priestland fed Roberts who faded out and angled in. Poor Ghirhaldini was turned inside out. Roberts was through and sprinted 50 yards to the posts unopposed. The Welsh sumo wrestler had spotted a weakness and had taken full advantage. He was now on top and just needed to finish his opponent off.

The game approached the hour mark and entered a frenetic stage. Wales continued to seek a second try to put the match beyond doubt. The dynamo Tipuric in his first start for Wales pulled off an excellent one handed catch and almost went in to one corner and Cuthbert got close in the other corner.

Priestland relied heavily on his boot for territory with marginal success and in attack with precious little. One kick saw the otherwise excellent Halfpenny over-commit to an aerial challenge with Parisse. The bigger man came off second best and Halfpenny, to the bays of the crowd, saw Clancy's yellow card.

Wales would not concede whilst down to 14 men and would bring on their entire bench, including a first cap for Ospreys scrum half Rhys Webb. Indeed Priestland landed a far from straight forward penalty in that time. Tipuric was again heavilly involved. Off the back of a poorly executed Italian line out in his own 22, he gathered, put in an excellent kick and chace and forced the Italian defender to find touch in his own 22. Wales pressured and even crossed the line but Clancy had already awarded them a penalty.

The result was not now in doubt. Wales eventually managed their second try. The 25th penalty of the match was taken quickly by captain Jenkins who fed Cuthbert. He scythed through the close defence and sprinted 50 yards to the corner. A valiant effort by two Italians five yards out was not enough and he stretched to claim a fine individual try.

Wales won 24-3.

Wales had almost two thirds of the territory and possession and never looked like losing, but Warren Gatland was frustrated. It was clear he didn't blame his charges for that, rather "the man with the whistle" who he described as "reasonably pedantic" after the match. I don't agree. Pedantry implies a measure of accuracy.

Wales are four from four and have their chance of a Grand Slam. If they can reduce the error and penalty count against France they have every chance.

No it was never very, very good, but it was involving enough not to become horrid either.

Wales
15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 Alex Cuthbert
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Jamie Roberts
11 George North
10 Rhys Priestland
9 Mike Phillips
1 Gethin Jenkins (c)
2 Matthew Rees
3 Adam Jones
4 Alun Wyn Jones
5 Ian Evans
6 Dan Lydiate
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Toby Faletau

16 Ken Owens
17 Paul James
18 Luke Charteris
19 Ryan Jones
20 Rhys Webb
21 James Hook
22 Scott Williams

Italy
15 Andrea Masi
14 Luke McLean
13 Gonzalo Canale
12 Alberto Scarbi
11 Mirco Bergamasco
10 Kristopher Burton
9 Fabio Semenzato
1 Andre Lo Cicero
2 Leonardo Ghiraldini
4 Quintin Geldenhuys
5 Cornelius Van Zyl
6 Alessandro Zanni
7 Simone avaro
8 Sergio Parisse (c)

16 Tommaso D'Apice
17 Fabio Staibano
18 Marco Bortolami
19 Robert Barbieri
20 Tobias Botes
21 Tommaso Benvenuti
22 Guilio Toniolatti

"reasonably pedantic" He didn't say "wrong".

Reasonably pedantic means "he didn't let us away with things we got away with in other games. We're fast and should be allowed to be fast so that we can put a blur on some of our dark arts"

Reasonably pedantic. QED

http://v2journal.com/wales-v-italy.html

SecretFly wrote:"reasonably pedantic" He didn't say "wrong".

He didn't, I did.

Glas a du wrote:

SecretFly wrote:"reasonably pedantic" He didn't say "wrong".

He didn't, I did.

I'll take the head man's opinion for now Glas. I watched his behaviour and facial signals in his box throughout the game...and I know him pretty well from Ireland through to Wales. He wasn't annoyed with the ref but worried about his player's performance. His words prove it.

Nice article Glas. It must have been an enjoyable occasion.

However, sumo wrestlers throw rice, not salt into the ring as an offering.

Fly

Worried about his players performances, shaky lineout aside, and the inability to finish off the line breaks did not make for a 'worried' Gatland!

Gatland had respect for the Italians, as the lienup showed, and the game turned out exactly how evryone was predicting, a tough 60 with Wales having too much out wide to finish the Italians off.

The game was pretty much over at 9 - 3, and 76 tackles to 18, and 100 to 20 passes says it all.

Near domination but a resolute defencive effort from the Italians, emulating the English before them.

bluesman...you're Welsh. You find the positives - it's natural. That perfomance from Wales yesterday will not be enough to beat France. You know it, I know it.

Now, they could still beat France of course and do the high-skill, perpetual motion, high-jinx stuff on the poor French and knock them back to France with their tails between their legs. But strictly based on the performance they gave yesterday (the thread subject matter) - no.

That's what Gatland saw. So did you because you know your rugby.

It was pretty obvious after Italy getting a good hiding off Ireland last week and the disappointment that they expressed through the media all week that they come to defend for 80mins, clearly didn't want to let in more than three tries.

Fly

I disagree, if Wales dominate posession and territory as they did yesterday they will win, if they score 2 tries to Frances 1 they will win, if they restrict France to just 3 points... They will win.

Defencively we were rock solid, we were a little slow to the breakdown but we were missing our breakdown expert. Also we beat too many first time defenders and didn't react as at this level you don't generally break the 1st line that easily.

The France defence won't be much better than the Italian one was, I'd like to give Italy the credit for that, but the French attack will be far more potent.

For all the huffing and puffing about Wales 'stuttering' attack, they scored more points than when they beat Ireland, and England, and for me against a better defence than both of those teams.

For me the structure is in place to beat France, we are constantly going over the gain line and breaking tackles regularly, the longer we do that for the better our support players will react to this.

We are capable of scoring 20 points V France, wether that will be enough will depend on how we 'spoil' when they have the ball.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Fly

I disagree, if Wales dominate posession and territory as they did yesterday they will win, if they score 2 tries to Frances 1 they will win, if they restrict France to just 3 points... They will win.

Defencively we were rock solid, we were a little slow to the breakdown but we were missing our breakdown expert. Also we beat too many first time defenders and didn't react as at this level you don't generally break the 1st line that easily.

The France defence won't be much better than the Italian one was, I'd like to give Italy the credit for that, but the French attack will be far more potent.

For all the huffing and puffing about Wales 'stuttering' attack, they scored more points than when they beat Ireland, and England, and for me against a better defence than both of those teams.

For me the structure is in place to beat France, we are constantly going over the gain line and breaking tackles regularly, the longer we do that for the better our support players will react to this.

We are capable of scoring 20 points V France, wether that will be enough will depend on how we 'spoil' when they have the ball.

You really think that France will play anything like Italy? This isn't Lievremont. This is now a France that wants to play with a new coach feeling his way through his first campaign in charge and still without a loss. They might not have clicked yet, but France doesn't need much clicking to get things right when their heart is in it. They might be mediorce France in most people's eyes so far, that might be a version of impotent France - but it's a pretty potent version of impotent France! If they beat England today, they need to beat Wales to win the Championship. They like Championships, they're better than any of us at them. They're not going to implode - not this side, not in the Six Nations.

It'll be a hell of a game in Wales but Wales will have to play their best game for 80 minutes...they won't be getting any breathers from France.

No offence fly but did you see the "dark arts" Ireland got away with yesterday?
One day they are going to decapitate someone the way they constantly grab players around the neck!
Player gets tackled starts falling to ground then an Irish second or back row runs in and grabs him in a head lock whilst said player is falling and then twists his head.
When clearing out a ruck ruck an Irish back rower runs around the ruck off side grabbing the oppose player who is trying to jackle the ball in ahead lock and then twist his neck to get him off his feet.

This "gang tackle" they do aswell is as negative as England good old truck and trailer! it's just obstructing the supporting players as far as im concerned! lets not forget oh yea what do they do? try and rip a players head off whilst the others hold his arms down.

Then we look at the lazy running and obstruction around the ruck area.

France wont play like Italy did yesterday France will turn up next week intending to win the game rather than turn up with damage limitation in mind.
I believe next weeks game will suit the Welsh style of play far better than what we witnessed yesterday.
Yes Wales will need to be on top of our game but France also need to be on top of theirs if they want to win this game.

viewtothegym wrote:No offence fly but did you see the "dark arts" Ireland got away with yesterday?

Dark arts are part of the game and every side perfects their own brand. 'Dark Arts; isn't a slur...it's a statement of fact that they are there and are coached to be there when benefits come. I'm pointing out that none of our sides are pure as the driven snow...although some people try to always argue that their side are. The Ref was 'pedantic' - he picked up on things that other might have let slide.

Thats the difference Fly, France don't need to implode to be beaten this year.
I honestly feel that if both teams turn up to win it and go all out at 100% Wales are within 3 points, win or loss. There is very little between either team!

My point was that the French defence never changes, it'll work hard and slow you down, but it can be breached, and I don't think they've come across an attacking force like the one Wales can and hopefully will provide in the MS next week.

I think the front row can be played into the ground, the French front row look devestating in the scrum but have lacked fitness in the loose recently, they seem to thrive when going forward but look lazy under pressure.

The locks are talented but lack grunt sometimes, mind you so do ours at present.

Hari looks out of sorts with the new game plan, Duss is a monster but Bonnaire has failed to impress. Pica will make an impact, if they are still in the game.

I hope to god the halfback pairing go well today and start V Wales, very little running threat, and I think we can get the better there.

Rougerie is massively experienced but is questioning himself, and giving ball early to Fofana, then struggling to cover Fofana defencively.

Malzieu is very worryingly on form, the only player looking as talented is North, so hopefully they cancel each other out.

It's 1/2p's inability in the air I worry about, teams are peppering him with bombs and getting a lot of joy from it.

If Wales play a similar gameplan V France we will score 20 points, as I said it's about how we 'spoil' let's hope Warbs is fit and firing, for me he is the difference!

SecretFly wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:No offence fly but did you see the "dark arts" Ireland got away with yesterday?

Dark arts are part of the game and every side perfects their own brand. 'Dark Arts; isn't a slur...it's a statement of fact that they are there and are coached to be there when benefits come. I'm pointing out that none of our sides are pure as the driven snow...although some people try to always argue that their side are. The Ref was 'pedantic' - he picked up on things that other might have let slide.

I see the referees imprint on the game from a different perspective. To me it is imperative that a referee has some empathy with the game and the occasion.

Clancy lacked an ability to sort the scrums or monitor the breakdown with the correct sense of timing that allowed both a free flowing game and adherence to the rules. Both sides suffered from that. I think it was either late in the first half or early in the second Italy escaped their twenty two with a flowing move that when they arrived in welsh territory Clancy blew his whistle against them for not releasing far to quickly. We have seen teams given up to five or six seconds to attempt to release in attack, often no mean feat, in this game it was about two seconds.

Both sets of fans were booing and jeering Clancy, which only seemed to make him more determined to imply his view of rugby on the match.

It is due to his inexperience as a referee, I am sure he will improve, but the Six Nations is a massive occasion. We met a group from Reggio Calabria, not a rugby heartland, who had travelled to see the game, they tavel away once each year. They had had a wonderful time until the game.

The IRB have an onus to these fans, they pay for the existence of the sport. They demand that the game should be the wonderful experience it is at its best. Referees are the conductors and they need to empathise to orchestrate.

But then if referees and the IRB have the fans in mind, should the furthest travelling teams get the rub of the green? Or maybe tier 2 nations should be allowed some tier 1 scalps to encourage participation in the smaller nation?

At this level it is about applying the letter of the law, and ensuring that both teams are allowed an even platform to compete to win the game in all facets!

A free flowing game generally favours one team, why should that be allowed? A team who wants a free flowing encounter needs to impress their style on the other team, it is not for the ref to help them!

[quote="maestegmafia"]

SecretFly wrote:Clancy lacked an ability to sort the scrums or monitor the breakdown with the correct sense of timing that allowed both a free flowing game and adherence to the rules. Both sides suffered from that. I think it was either late in the first half or early in the second Italy escaped their twenty two with a flowing move that when they arrived in welsh territory Clancy blew his whistle against them for not releasing far to quickly. We have seen teams given up to five or six seconds to attempt to release in attack, often no mean feat, in this game it was about two seconds.

Both sets of fans were booing and jeering Clancy, which only seemed to make him more determined to imply his view of rugby on the match.

Funny you should mention the whistle being sounded far too quickly for not releasing. The Ireland/Scotland game had the same meticulousnes applied. I was shouting "Give them a bloody chance to get it back - be realistic". Maybe O'Brien has directed refs to tighten up there. We'll see in the English/French game.

But I tend to think that if two sets of fans boo a ref equally, then you can be certain he isn't taking sides, he isn't giving one side more advantages than the other, he is being fair in his calls to both sides and he's being a ref - objectively assessing the game for rules and rules broken.

thebluesmancometh wrote:But then if referees and the IRB have the fans in mind, should the furthest travelling teams get the rub of the green? Or maybe tier 2 nations should be allowed some tier 1 scalps to encourage participation in the smaller nation?

At this level it is about applying the letter of the law, and ensuring that both teams are allowed an even platform to compete to win the game in all facets!

A free flowing game generally favours one team, why should that be allowed? A team who wants a free flowing encounter needs to impress their style on the other team, it is not for the ref to help them!

Agree with every word of that.

SecretFly wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:But then if referees and the IRB have the fans in mind, should the furthest travelling teams get the rub of the green? Or maybe tier 2 nations should be allowed some tier 1 scalps to encourage participation in the smaller nation?

At this level it is about applying the letter of the law, and ensuring that both teams are allowed an even platform to compete to win the game in all facets!

A free flowing game generally favours one team, why should that be allowed? A team who wants a free flowing encounter needs to impress their style on the other team, it is not for the ref to help them!

Agree with every word of that.

It is about applying the lett of the law very much so but it is the timing allowed that makes all the difference. Not just that a clear vision of why a ball is not coming back and being presented or is being stolen when it should allowed to be so.

Clancy could neither see the knees and elbows, hands and arms that were preventing quick ball by both sides. He would penalise but he was often penalising the wrong thing and far too quickly to resolve the situation.

It is inexperience on Clancy's part, the game was too tough for him to adjudicate, the IRB should not put forward such inexperienced referees for such major matches. This has been a problem for a number of years now.

Clancy will surely improve I with time and experience.

The stuttering non flowing performance by Wales was in the main down to their high error count not Clancy.
I've no doubt a lot of fans watching the game were frustrated but you have to look at yourselves first.

Read JPRs article in the Telegraph a bit of perspective.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:The stuttering non flowing performance by Wales was in the main down to their high error count not Clancy.

So who is blaming Clancy to be exact?

thebluesmancometh wrote:My point was that the French defence never changes, it'll work hard and slow you down, but it can be breached, and I don't think they've come across an attacking force like the one Wales can and hopefully will provide in the MS next week.

I think that's being a little uncharitable to the All Blacks.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:The stuttering non flowing performance by Wales was in the main down to their high error count not Clancy.
I've no doubt a lot of fans watching the game were frustrated but you have to look at yourselves first.

Read JPRs article in the Telegraph a bit of perspective.

Absolute hogwash.

Clancy's refereeing stifled the game for both teams. Even a heavily edited JPR article said that. Every article on the match said that.

Linebreaker wrote:Nice article Glas. It must have been an enjoyable occasion.

However, sumo wrestlers throw rice, not salt into the ring as an offering.

The Aman Valley branch throw salt, right!

Actually it is salt they throw (religious significance, to purify the ground), not rice, which is a foodstuff and would be like chucking pasta about.

samuraidragon wrote:Actually it is salt they throw (religious significance, to purify the ground), not rice, which is a foodstuff and would be like chucking pasta about.

Rice or pasta could really hurt your feet... Glad its Salt all in all