My future/present ideal Irish team.

15.Rob Kearney
14.Andrew Conway
13.Tommy Bowe
12.Brendan Macken
11.Luke Fitzgerald
10.Sexton
9.Luke McGrath
8.SOB
7.POM
6.Ferris
5.Donnacha Ryan
4.Dan Tuohy
3.Jamie Hagan
2.Sean Cronin
1.Cian Healy

Nice looking side. Not sure about Bowe at 13 and I'd be hoping O'Malley, Cave and Spence will be fighting over that jersey with Earls and Cave.

How close to the team are the lads like Conway, McGrath, Tuohy and Hagan?

Tuohy is very unlucky not to have made the bench in O'Connells absence, he's having a very good season with Ulster.

I'd imagine Conway and McGrath are few seasons away yet and are just establishing themselves at Leinster.

Hagan isn't far off due to our lack of props I'd say.

maestegmafia wrote:How close to the team are the lads like Conway, McGrath, Tuohy and Hagan?

- Tuohy is fairly close. He's been capped by Ireland already and starts for Ulster.
- Hagan has got a lot closer. Hayes is retired. Buckley has left the country. He's got into a few training squads and is pushing.
- McGrath is miles off. He looks to be behind Healy, Court and Paddy McAllister (he's a young prop to watch) as well as maybe even Marcus Horan and Brett Wilkinson
- Conway is miles off. Genuinely miles away. You've got Simon Zebo, Craig Gilroy, Felix Jones, Keith Earls, David Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald, Andrew Trimble, Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe all ahead of him.

I would say the next generation of uncapped (or guys with a tiny amount of caps) players so to speak is looking like:

01 Paddy McAllister
02 Mike Sherry
03 Jamie Hagan
04 Devin Toner
05 Dan Tuohy
06 Peter O'Mahony
07 Dominic Ryan
08 Rhys Ruddock
09 Paul Marshall
10 Ian Madigan
11 Simon Zebo
12 Nevin Spence
13 Eoin O'Malley
14 David Kearney
15 Felix Jones

Cheers, I have seen them in the Rabbo.

Eoin O'Malley is a stand out, seen plenty of him for Leinster and he is sure to be a star. Toner has turned around a few deriders this year with some good work too.

Lets hope a few of these lads get out on tour with Ireland in the summer.

Eoin O Malley from what iv seen is a class act and with a little more time could be the answer at 13. Zebo D. Kearney and Jones is quite an exciting back 3. I feel Jones is going to have to work very hard to take 15 off R. Kearney

Aye Dave Kearney had a great game for the Wolfhounds against England a while ago.

I met their father in Dublin a year or so ago at the opening of a friends restaurant. Great bloke real rugby family there.

I would say Eoin O'Malley is the man to take the mantle from BOD. I was a little down that he wasnt given the go this six nations... Would have been a great opportunity to see what he's got without too much pressure.

red_stag - both earls & luke fitz are younger than felix jones !

tuohy = 27 in June
toner = 26 in June
Jones = 25 in June
fitz = 25 in sept
earls = 25 in Oct
e o'malley = 24 in july
d kearney = 23 in July

You think murray, kearney, earls & fitz will disappear?

He looks classy that O'Malley, Kearney too.

Lets not forget Luke Marshall and JJ Hanaran aswell. Keith Earls had his best game for Ireland last weekend imo.

Ireland have loads of talented young backs coming through in the next few seasons.

We just need to find some front row forwards from somewhere or none of them will get the ball!

Earls' best game for Ireland that I have seen was last year against England. I think we are going to have a lot of talented players available for Ireland over the next few years, which can only be a good thing. Many people challenging for a starting place, only some will succeed. Will be interesting to see who does.

Also stag you are quite the hypocrite! You have criticised myself and others for picking their potential teams and dropping certain players and called it a knee-jerk reaction!

No doubt there's plenty of talent coming through, but how many will actually get game time with Ireland in the next 2 years? I think we're slow enough bringing talent through on the international scene. In fairness, I do like the way we seem to let young players get firmly established with their provinces before we throw them in at the deep end, but sometimes I'd love us to take a risk on a youngster at international level, like we did with Murray. It tells a lot about a player how he reacts to it.

We need to sort the centres out sooner rather than later. My fear is that when BOD returns he goes straight to 13 with D'Arcy inside him yet again. My even bigger fear is that this goes on for a few seasons. And lets be honest, with Kidney in charge it wouldn't be surprising if this turned out to be the case would it?

I really hope this won't be the case Rory, but I'd be pretty shocked if Bod and D'arcy aren't or centre partnership for the tour of NZ.

Playing BOD at 12 would be the wisest option, as it will help bring in his replacement at 13. Plus D'Arcy is just out of the equation now (or should be). Then when a new 13 has come through, that 13 will be experienced enough for the next young 12 who replaces BOD. See, I should be the Ireland coach

But who would you have at 13 Rory? Earls, Cave, Spence, EOM, Griffin?

SinE and Rodders,

I have neither said this is a young team nor the team I want to see.

I have just said it appears to be the "next in line". Guys who are uncapped or with very few caps.

Thats all. Make of that what you will.

Well Earls is playing 13 now, so BOD could come in at 12 with Earls at 13, which would only be an entirely positive change. Personally I would prefer Cave at 13 though, followed by Spence in the long run.

Earls and BOD could be pretty good if we get to see it. We've so many options in the backs at the moment. Inside centre seems to be where we are position where we are a little short. Obviously BOD is not a long term option there, D'arcy time is up, and I'm still not sure about Mcfadden for the future. I thought Mcfadden would have cemented his place on the Leinster team sheet 18 months ago, but he seems to be moving along very slowly and he must be 26 or 27 now. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

Mcfadden is not international standard, if anything he should be a winger.Eoin O'Malley is indeed a classy player, however he does not appear to be physical enough for todays centres and that is why I didn't include him.

Based on the last few games I think Earls will be at 13 for the foreseeable future...

Of the players mentioned by Red Stag... I would include Stephen Archer...he had a blip a few weeks back but the last couple of games he has scrummaged well and seems to be developing more so he is another possibility...as for the others..
01 Paddy McAllister
02 Mike Sherry
03 Jamie Hagan
04 Devin Toner - not yet intl class.
05 Dan Tuohy - There or thereabouts
06 Peter O'Mahony - Definite
07 Dominic Ryan - Not sure about him
08 Rhys Ruddock - Has hit a plateau at the moment but bags of talent.
09 Paul Marshall - maybe
10 Ian Madigan - Definitely next Irish OH
11 Simon Zebo - Bad game last weekend but very exciting.
12 Nevin Spence - Looks the part..
13 Eoin O'Malley - Potential but must nail down Leinster place
14 David Kearney - Definite
15 Felix Jones - Lets see how he recovers yet again.

For those putting Spence in at 12 - forget it, he isn't a 12 and he isn't very good there. There are many better options.

Also I actually like that back row - though I would play POM at 8 and Ruddock at 6.

Why people put Bowe at 13 is beyond me. On form he's one of the best wingers in the world. Spence seems to be the future at 13, showed some real class for Ulster this season.

O'Brien and Ferris hopefully have a good 6 or more years left in them each, think we're still yet to see what they're truely capable of.

I'd like to see a hard running 12 produced from one of the provinces, but no one really seems to be putting their hands up yet..

solid enuf team,
I would have dominic ryan at 7. Conway will be a massive player for us in the future, he played on the same u20 team as zebo and outshone him, and is a year younger. The fact that kidney picked him to train with ireland as one of the extras, even though he'd only played 1 and a half games with leinster due to injury makes me think he's running rings around people at training. Also the joint record try scorer in the Junior world cup along with zac guildford.

Luke McGrath looks like the real deal, he was upending people twice his size on friday, also got a serious d.g 3 weeks before. just looks like one of those freak players.
For those picking Madigan, I can of course see why. But having grown up watching him, was in year behind at school, he always has been mentally fragile. If things are going well, he's one of the best players you can have on the pitch. If things are going badly, and tactics need to be adjusted, he can completely implode. I know it is something he will learn with experience and hope he does.

To difficult to say.

The positions Ireland need to address first are

12,13,3(backup), 4, 5, 9

12- bod in the short term whilst earls or cave get up to speed at 13. Longer term we have to hope marshall, hanrahan or even Farrell not only get gametime at provicial level but fulfil their potential. Spence would be a backwards step at 12.
13- earls looks a decent option but must be retained here for munster over Laulala. Cave an option too. May not be popular but I don't think eom will make it. I just think he is too small. He proves me wrong every time I see him though so he might be ok as long as I keep thinking it. Spence needs to pass better and think quicker. Farrell may be an option here. Griffen looks a classy player too.
3- hagan might follow in Ross's footsteps in that he was sparingly used by Leinster in s first season before breaking through. Close by default of poor options. Macklin at ulster might yet make it but is some way off. Archer has been hammered anytime I have watched him. Couldn't wish for a better mentor though.
4- donncha Ryan is here now and performing exceptionally.
5- Tuohy could step up but that remains to be tried. Longer term I'm not certain if Nagle is the prospect we all thought given his lack of gametime. Hope so. Longer, longer term Iain Henderson looks massively exciting for the u20's
9- we have Conor Murray getting gametime already so this isn't a mssive issue but depth is important. Paul Marshall for all his great cameos is probably not going to be an option. Deserves a shot maybe in the summer mind you. Luke McGrath needs to work on his passing from what I have seen because he has all the other tools.

red_stag wrote:SinE and Rodders Rory,

I have neither said this is a young team nor the team I want to see.

I have just said it appears to be the "next in line". Guys who are uncapped or with very few caps.

Thats all. Make of that what you will.

Fixed it for you stag

To the OP both Ulster and Munster have better backs coming through than Mackan - Hanrahan and Marshall

Also why Conway - why not Gilroy or Zebo

There is a a rugby world outside Dublin you know

My young team with few caps would include

McAllister-Cronin-Hagan
Ryan-Tuohy
Ruddock-O'Mahony-Ryan
Marshall-Madigan
Marshall-O'Malley
Zebo-Jones-Kearney Jr.

Archer-Sherry-Toner-Henry-McGrath-Keatley-Conway

Few points:
1)
Jack McGrath and Archer still have a long way to go IMO, I don't think they can be reasonable options for near 2/3 years for Ireland. Hagan 1/2 years if the 2nd replacement prop at international level is introduced.

2)
Toner is much closer to Tuohy than people think IMO. He is much more consistent I think. I'm very glad we have some athletic, new age locks being produced and performing well.

3)
Ruddock has plateau-ed and needs to push on. Playing poorly in the last 3 months or so. Ryan has looked strong and last season he was exceptional. O'Mahony is proving to be quite the find and I imagine will be Irish captain at some stage

4)
Marshall and McGrath are both fantastic finds and playing exceptionally well and are the kind of scrumhalves Ireland needs, both quick attack minded players and live wires. Madigan is playing out of his skin and provided he can place kick well will be a huge addition to Ireland. Great passer, runner and good in defence too.

5)
I personally think EOM's defence is being knocked down too much. he had two bad games in defence and people are highlighting them compared to his other very good games in defence against the likes of Rougerie and Lualua and co. Marshall I think could just be a class act think he is an overall natural born player

6)
Jones if injury free will be outstanding, Zebo has still some developing to do on the mental side of the game but his try scoring rate is hugely impressive. Kearney Jr is another class act, followed by COnway too, who oozes the same and could be in the starting XV.

The OP mentioned McGrath the scrum half, not Jack McGrath the prop by the way lads. There’s a lot of hype about him, but he hasn’t played for Leinster yet, so I’ll hold off on my judgment and just see how things happen for him.

Bench? Wolfhounds?

Surely it will be Simon Zebo and Dave Kearney on the wings. Though i'm not sure if they will be ahead of Bowe and Trimble who could still be playing well by then.