How average is the BMW PGA championship?

In the period I highlighted on the European tour between the masters and us open (on the euro tour thread) the BMW PGA is the only really big one and carries a minimum of 64 points regardless of the field. Now last years filed was as strong as it is likely to get with the worlds number 1,2,3, 5, 6, 7 and 10. It did however only have 20 players in the top 50 and 33 of the top 100.

After that the field quality plummeted and the total event rating value (see https://www.606v2.com/t25196-owgr-week-9 post 9 for info) was only 400, so without the support of the minimum OWGR on offer it would only have been worth 54 OWGR points. About the same as an event like the Honda or Northern trust open.

Now, this is where I need princedrac’s help. Has it ever been close to warranting 64 OWGR points on merit or has it always needed this crutch? At the moment it is 125 points short of the 525 needed for 64 points on merit.

Given that the strength of the field is never likely to have been higher it seems odd that it has been bestowed this false status.

I see this highlighting a major issue for the European tour and a reason it cannot topple the PGA tour; The strength of player (based on OWGR) outside the top few is very weak. This could have arisen through a self fulfilling perpetual bias but it now exists and surely cannot be overcome by doing nothing?

Is there also a case for the status of BMW PGA event to be downgraded given how poor the field actually is?



EDIT

Turns out home tour player year end rakings also contribute, limited to 75% of the world ratings values. The maximum this would offer is 75 (if top 30 R2d from 2010 turned up), so still 50 points short at best.

Mac, i think if you analysed every event (even your beloved PGA tour) you'd find many similarly ranked tournaments with weak or occasionally even weaker tails.

The PGA is the flagship event of the tour and certainly justifies top ranking.

The only minimus that exist on the pga tour are

Any event (and this also applies to europe) 24 points minimum

The players 80

So all other events gain thier points on merit.

100% agreed Mac.
just calling the event "flagship" isnt really enough to warrant a top billing.
to justify the 64pts they really need to do a better job in attracting the top players worldwide.
Having said that... i think here is probably a similar enough arguement for saying the players championship in the US and maybe the flagship events in Japan/Asia etc are artificially inflated too.

The problem is that too many Yanks are "stay at home" types, and they make up a lot of the top 100, hence it appears the field is denuded but it's really that many can't be arsed getting down to the passport office. Hardly the BMW's fault.

Imo to much is made of the PGA being the better tour! They have a college system that allows them to churn out players more often than you see across Europe because the money that goes into all forms of college sports out there.

So that skews the rankings because they have no need to leave their star spangled comfort blanket and cross the Atlantic ocean to try something different. So more often than not if one did venture out of the Americas they struggle with a different climate, type of course and style of how to play it.

So while people may say PGA tour is better, I personally don't agree as I'd rather watch the different types of course and play on offer throughout europe. The BMW PGA imo warrants its ogwr points value, last year alone we had the battle for No1 decided there between the top 2. So what a few americans don't come over for it, that's there choice and let's be honest its not just the BMW americans have refused to cross the pond for, there's been many over the years refuse to play The Open Championship as its links and not in the US, are we going to question the evr for that as well!

I will be attending Wentworth this year and can't wait to see good players, playing on a great course regardless whether they are a household name or not. After all a top ranked golfer is only one good season away from a top ranking. Look at GPrat got to top 10 in world on back of one good season and he still top 20 but been poor since.

I don't see anything wrong with the European Tour being the very best that it can be; perhaps it can't compete with the PGA Tour, but the PGA Tour has the three Majors and O'Grady's forfeited 3 WGC's to be nothing much more than glorified PGA Tour events.

The only thing that would certainly redress the balance is more sponsorship and higher prizemoney, and it's difficult to see either on the immediate horizon, especially with the European Tour's apparent laissez faire leadership.

Americans won't travel in significant numbers, just ain't gonna happen except as highly compensated tourists, so best bet is to make the European Tour more compelling for other "Internationals", most of whom are currently resident in the USA.

Nothing wrong with European Tour being second to the PGA Tour, but compellingly different!

The European Tour is second rate compared to the PGA. Nothing wrong with that but that's the way it is.
Why would Americans travel to play for less money than they get on the PGA ? It's up to the European Tour to make its product better, not to blame Americans for stupidly travelling to play an inferior tour.

Anyone going to the BMW?

when we have donald and westy fighting out for the win(as we did last year) - i dont think we need to look into it any more. It has plenty of top golfers and the cream rose to the top. Sometimes its also about the golf course for me!

I normally allways go to the BMW - and probally will this year again!

Love the course, love the event.
Do they still give BMW owners free parking?

Yup - went last year for the first time and really enjoyed it. Despite comments above, I was absolutely star-struck. Everywhere I looked, there seemed to be a "big" name (e.g. high-ranking players and major winners McIlroy, Donald, McDowell, Westwood, Els, Kaymer, Oosthuizen, Schwartzel, Yang, Goosen...).

Dragging a few more with me this year - bought a few tickets for friends' Xmas presents at early bird price.

If the european tour is second best I dont really care.

I was more interested in what people thought about the event having its 64 point status propped up for no reason?

If you guys are happy that euro tour is second rate then surely you would be happy for this event to get the OWGR points it earns?

Yep - I'm going this year and looking forward to it

Didn't even know they did!

Would love to play it with its changes! its just so expensive these days!!

Mac, points awarded for OWGR are pretty irrelevant when a mickey mouse tournament like the Chevron or Nedbank carries way more than it should, it is therefore harldy worth disecting the field of the BMW when there are other more glaring issues with truly appalling events.

McLaren wrote:If the european tour is second best I dont really care.

I was more interested in what people thought about the event having its 64 point status propped up for no reason?

If you guys are happy that euro tour is second rate then surely you would be happy for this event to get the OWGR points it earns?

Well when you have 7 out the top 10 playing then i think it is almost justiuiable,when you have the at the time no.1 and 2 fighting out the win down the last even more so!! I understand your point, however its the flagship event and doesnt accrue as much as the players(the pga's flagship event) does it-- that is a massively devalued event due to it being a warm up(week before) for the masters! therefore looking at it from that pov , yes i think its fine. Also the ranking points keep the field up and so it should!

super_realist wrote:Love the course, love the event.
Do they still give BMW owners free parking?

Yes, I think so. I believe there was also a reserved stand (by the 18th?) for the Bummers last year. I'll be one of the plebs shaking my fist and shouting abuse up at you...

http://tickets.europeantour.com/Event/BMW-PGA-CHAMPIONSHIP/Wentworth-Club/594949

It's a shame really , we either get largely crap fields but decent coverage for the European events. Or better fields but almost unwatchable ad break and tripe commentary ridden PGA events.

are you posting on the correct thread diggs??

mystiroakey wrote:

McLaren wrote:If the european tour is second best I dont really care.

I was more interested in what people thought about the event having its 64 point status propped up for no reason?

If you guys are happy that euro tour is second rate then surely you would be happy for this event to get the OWGR points it earns?

Well when you have 7 out the top 10 playing then i think it is almost justiuiable,when you have the at the time no.1 and 2 fighting out the win down the last even more so!! I understand your point, however its the flagship event and doesnt accrue as much as the players(the pga's flagship event) does it-- that is a massively devalued event due to it being a warm up(week before) for the masters! therefore looking at it from that pov , yes i think its fine. Also the ranking points keep the field up and so it should!

I understand fully what you are saying Mac and agree entirely. There is no reason why the BMW should be entitled to have its ranking points propped up as equally there is no reason why any tournament should have it's points topped up. Most of the top players play in it but there is no strength in depth.

Oh and mystiroakey The Players moved to May nearly five years ago in part for the reason you have mentioned.

Outside the majors and WGC most events don't have much strength in depth, even the so called 5th Major, TPC is poorly attended, so if we're going to moan about the BMW, be consistent and say that most tournaments probably carry too many points for the depth of field, there are some that shouldn't carry any at all (Nedbank, Chevron)

Hibbz wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

McLaren wrote:If the european tour is second best I dont really care.

I was more interested in what people thought about the event having its 64 point status propped up for no reason?

If you guys are happy that euro tour is second rate then surely you would be happy for this event to get the OWGR points it earns?

Well when you have 7 out the top 10 playing then i think it is almost justiuiable,when you have the at the time no.1 and 2 fighting out the win down the last even more so!! I understand your point, however its the flagship event and doesnt accrue as much as the players(the pga's flagship event) does it-- that is a massively devalued event due to it being a warm up(week before) for the masters! therefore looking at it from that pov , yes i think its fine. Also the ranking points keep the field up and so it should!

I understand fully what you are saying Mac and agree entirely. There is no reason why the BMW should be entitled to have its ranking points propped up as equally there is no reason why any tournament should have it's points topped up. Most of the top players play in it but there is no strength in depth.

Oh and mystiroakey The Players moved to May nearly five years ago in part for the reason you have mentioned.

really- what the heck is worng with my brian- lol! only watched it every year

ok on to the point here- the players is 80pts the bmw 64 pts- sounds fair to me!!

As I said super_realist, there is no (golfing) argument for any tournament to have it's points topped up.

I have no idea what is wrong with your Brian mystiroakey, but he's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy.

lol

Was more a dig at Mac, Hibbz as he's mentioned the BMW as an isolated case, when it's pretty widespread. Problem is there are too many tournaments over too wide an area for a thin field of truly top players to spread themselves over. Hence weak fields.

His complaint was more about the world ranking points being added than the strength of the field and don't think there are that many other tournaments that have points added are there?

Certainly the two you've mentioned, and also The Players as has been mentioned. Any experts know of any others?

I guess the strength of your chagrin towards it would depend upon how much value you give the world rankings anyway but I thought it was quite an interesting discussion point and something I wasn't aware of until the Mac man posted it.

Thanks Hibbz.

Super and a few others.

This is not about opinion but rather the numbers behind how many points an event is awarded. I may think the field is weak or someone else may think it strong, this matters not. It is awarded points based on the owgr points accumulated by those participating and not anyone’s opinion.

As I said we need prince to confirm this but if the BMW has never made the 64 mark why is the level of its protection?

Say it makes the 60-70 mark 8 out of every ten years then it might be sensible to protect it in case of a one of scheduling issue (or the like) that causes damage to its reputation through poor allocation of points. If this is not the case then why the protected status?

An please people move on from USA vs Europe, this is a debate about where the BMW’s protected status came from and why the level was set at 64, especially if it has never actually reached this level on merit.


I also know of the issues surrounding the chevron and nedbank but lets leave that for another day.

Mac, I suspect that the tour is granted a specific number of tournaments which they have high points for in order to attract a high number of decent players in order to justify it's status as a flagship event. such as the BMW or Dubai.

To me, it's a class tournament with a decent and large field. Got no problem with it, I think it's the rankings that need to be simplified, something similar to Tennis and it's 250, 500, 1000 point tournament ranks.

I think its very important to not go down the road of completly monopolising the uspga tour. One way of keeping this from happening is to maintain ranking points in falgship events on the 'second' tour.

IMO-

The problem with the OWGR evaluation of PGAT and EuroT fields is that it only cares about the Top 200 players. Every player adds value to the field, however marginally trivially.

And the OWGR field evaluation is very top heavy.

Rory+Luke+Westy+ Martin > Sum (Players #81-#200)
141 EVRs (Event Ratings Pts) to 140 EVRs

The consequence of these formulas is that the top 50 in the World is self-perpetuating. Once a player get himself well inside the top 10, it take a huge long slump to nudge a player out of the top 50. Chevron, Volvo and Nedbank is for top players and they earn points to help them stay there

How long did it take former Top 10 players to fall out the top 50? Woods, Sergio, Paddy, Ernie? It took a year long slump for it to happen.

Its time to for the OWGR to go deeper than the top 200 players, so events like Chevron, and Nedbank and Volvo and Hyundai get penalized for short fields.

A simple formula (w/ a lot of help from a internet acquaintance) is

Sum of the OWGR average of each player and each player has a minimum 0.05 average.

In this case:

The top 4 players would be worth 32.87 pts this week.
and Players ranked #81-200 would be 151.34 pts this week

As a point of reference

IIRC, the sum of OWGR Avgs for the best fields last year was around 240-300 (Players, Majors, WGC). Cadillac was around 245

this week, Transitions is 207.4, Andalucia is 97.

Based on this weeks rankings, the Chevron Field OWGR averages would sum to 72, much lower than the Andalucia.