A loss would be a disgrace

First topic message reminder :

Not wishing to disrespect the French, but this side is one of worst I,ve seen in a long time. A terrible world cup, losing 3 times in the group stages and scraping through to the final thanks to a rash tackle and an equally rash refereeing decision. So far this 6N they`ve looked fairly clueless and dare I say, gutless, I mean they even lost to an England team who don`t know the meaning of attacking rugby. Of course we could lose as the French do have some quality players but if we did it would be of our own doing as if we play well France won`t be even to stay close. I predict Wales by 20 and if we lose, Gatland will have to leave on the first plane back to obscurity.

Lets have a 606 sweep, I say Wales by 20

True they have been our nemesis over the last decade. It does however have little to do with this thread.

Likewise record of Wales vs SA last 13 tests.

SA 13 wins
Wales 0 wins.

See we can all play the same game.

so how about we now get back on topic and discuss the thread?

As I said in my first post on this thread, Wales will be deserved winner of the Grandslam as they have been the best team thus far. It is however unecessary for some to be as arrogant to suggest that France have no chance.

Years pass and nations change and nobody has the right to judge Wales for the future based on selective chapters in the past.

If fans Welsh or not want to say that France have no chance then it is their right, they have to wear it if Wales lose.

I say that Wales will win, because I am a die hard Welsh fan, so regardless of whether France have a chance or not, I want Wales to win and I find it sooooooo boringthat fans arenot allowed to be confident rather than be told to wait for the game to be played and be predictable.

Disrespect is another thing and as I have already said it is unacceptable to disrespect any nation or club regardless of historic results good or bad. It may have taken a while but I feel Wales have crawled out of the huge turmoil of the amateur - professional turmoil and are back.

You see, when you make sensible statements then we can continue a sensible discussion.

I have had many talks during the Six Nations with the welsh supporters and they ( the objective ones) believe that regardless of the previous two grandslams in the 2000's this is the best position Wales have been in due to their depth of talent and obviously the momentum they have carried forward.

There is nothing wrong with believing in your team, we all beleive in our teams. It is however the comments of France is rubbish or poor and even if they play to their potential they can't win.

Or as one poster said, it doesn't matter which french team rocks up, it is what we do that matters.

The second part of that statment is correct, of course it matters what wales does. The problem comes in with saying it doesn't matter what france does. Of course it matters what they do. Otherwise why play against them, it is illogical to reason that way.

there is another factor that nobody has brought up on this thread, it matters what the referee does as well, how will he interpret on the weekend, it can have a big impact on the game.

Those that say don't bring up cliches about how france can be absloutely brilliant one day and the next they simply don't rock up.

BS. As much as it is a cliche it also happens to be the truth. I don't pretend to understand their culture, but there is ampe evidence of that, how else does one explain their performance in the RWC final vs their performance against Tonga?

Bilt. do you not yhink other teams are capable of what france do.. in all sport. england does it alot. having a bad group game .then raising the level of performance in a final happens all the time. england in 2007. Spain football wc 2010.. France are just an inconsistant team(historically) but have players that can rise to an occasion. but they are not alone....

Excuse the grammer posting on android

Mystir, I think it happens with all teams sure, it is just remarkable how France tends to be an anomaly when it comes to that.

Look at it this way, the six nation teams are very close to each other in performances, the number of close matches attest to that fact.

But which Nh side more so than France can lift their game to beat the All Blacks?

biltongbek wrote:You see, when you make sensible statements then we can continue a sensible discussion.

I have had many talks during the Six Nations with the welsh supporters and they ( the objective ones) believe that regardless of the previous two grandslams in the 2000's this is the best position Wales have been in due to their depth of talent and obviously the momentum they have carried forward.

There is nothing wrong with believing in your team, we all beleive in our teams. It is however the comments of France is rubbish or poor and even if they play to their potential they can't win.

Or as one poster said, it doesn't matter which french team rocks up, it is what we do that matters.

The second part of that statment is correct, of course it matters what wales does. The problem comes in with saying it doesn't matter what france does. Of course it matters what they do. Otherwise why play against them, it is illogical to reason that way.

there is another factor that nobody has brought up on this thread, it matters what the referee does as well, how will he interpret on the weekend, it can have a big impact on the game.

Those that say don't bring up cliches about how france can be absloutely brilliant one day and the next they simply don't rock up.

BS. As much as it is a cliche it also happens to be the truth. I don't pretend to understand their culture, but there is ampe evidence of that, how else does one explain their performance in the RWC final vs their performance against Tonga?

Being patronising does not help the cause, moderator or not. You have posted some pretty idiotic stuff yourself pal.

Your example of a cliche is perfect. you see cliches are on the whole true. however.in this case you can apply the same logic to other teams.

None of us know which side would win if both teams play at 100%. However on recent form i would guess wales are more capable of raising theres.

Bilt. i fully believe rugby is about match ups. what other level quality team has the same record v aus or france as england. your logic can be applied here. same when it comes to ireland v england

Mystir I agree with you, my point is being overconfident to the point where you disregard the opposition on a whole isn't realistic.

Woodstock wrote:

biltongbek wrote:You see, when you make sensible statements then we can continue a sensible discussion.

I have had many talks during the Six Nations with the welsh supporters and they ( the objective ones) believe that regardless of the previous two grandslams in the 2000's this is the best position Wales have been in due to their depth of talent and obviously the momentum they have carried forward.

There is nothing wrong with believing in your team, we all beleive in our teams. It is however the comments of France is rubbish or poor and even if they play to their potential they can't win.

Or as one poster said, it doesn't matter which french team rocks up, it is what we do that matters.

The second part of that statment is correct, of course it matters what wales does. The problem comes in with saying it doesn't matter what france does. Of course it matters what they do. Otherwise why play against them, it is illogical to reason that way.

there is another factor that nobody has brought up on this thread, it matters what the referee does as well, how will he interpret on the weekend, it can have a big impact on the game.

Those that say don't bring up cliches about how france can be absloutely brilliant one day and the next they simply don't rock up.

BS. As much as it is a cliche it also happens to be the truth. I don't pretend to understand their culture, but there is ampe evidence of that, how else does one explain their performance in the RWC final vs their performance against Tonga?

Being patronising does not help the cause, moderator or not. You have posted some pretty idiotic stuff yourself pal.

Woodstock, I have been trying to talk to you in a mature manner, this is the last response I will provide on your posts. I am also telling you your reference to me being a moderator or not has absolutely nothing to do with this, so in future leave that out of the conversation.

If you can, provide said "idiotic" posts, and I am most definitely not your pal.

biltongbek wrote:Mystir I agree with you, my point is being overconfident to the point where you disregard the opposition on a whole isn't realistic.

I agree, just over a year ago Wales drew at home to Fiji.

Bilt, people do exaggerate to make a point - try not to take it too literally.

biltongbek wrote:Mystir I agree with you, my point is being overconfident to the point where you disregard the opposition on a whole isn't realistic.

I agree, just over a year ago Wales drew at home to Fiji.

Bilt, people do exaggerate to make a point - try not to take it too literally.

Pal when I use it ain't a term of endearment.

If you are going to be mature do not patronise they do not go together.

This is a Welsh thread and with all due respect I do not feel you have the knowledge to discuss my team with me.

We will crush France with the greatest of respect given to them, but we will crush them

France took a C team to Nz and beat the AllBlacks,as usual the half truth.They beat the weakest AllBlack side for a decade,and lost to them the following week.
BUT no one mentions that,I am an Anglo-Scot,NOT a Kiwi.Blethering on about what French team will turn up,3 RWC Finals nil wins,yes they may have deserved
it 2011.
12 wins versus the All Blacks ,4 in NZ ,2 in RWCs a proud record,2 defeats to Argentina in a RWC,a loss to Italy.Played 1999 and 2007RWCs after beating the AllBlacks,didn`t turn up for the next round.
I can assure you I KNOW all about Rugby NH or SH ,and NEVER write off a French Team.But also know they are just as likely to umplode if there heads go down.
There is nothing wrong with talking up your team,I hope Wales achieve a Grand Slam.They have been the best side this year to date,but there may well be a French Back lash.
The New French Coach is really wringing the changes tryimg to get it right,Fritz in mid field,with Fofana moving out one due to injuries is interesting.

France took a C team to Nz and beat the AllBlacks,as usual the half truth.They beat the weakest AllBlack side for a decade,and lost to them the following week.


Is it France's fault that you regard it as the weakest NZ team in 10 years? It was the NZ media who accused France of taking a C team no one else.

It was still France that went home with the cup they played for after winning on aggregate too as I recall.

looks to me like France are well up for this one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17389846

Going to be a tough old battle, could be a classic, won't be a disgrace for either side if they lose.

Running Dragon wrote:Not wishing to disrespect the French, but this side is one of worst I,ve seen in a long time. A terrible world cup, losing 3 times in the group stages and scraping through to the final thanks to a rash tackle and an equally rash refereeing decision. So far this 6N they`ve looked fairly clueless and dare I say, gutless, I mean they even lost to an England team who don`t know the meaning of attacking rugby. Of course we could lose as the French do have some quality players but if we did it would be of our own doing as if we play well France won`t be even to stay close. I predict Wales by 20 and if we lose, Gatland will have to leave on the first plane back to obscurity.

Lets have a 606 sweep, I say Wales by 20

Oh dear. That is pretty much my first reaction to reading this.

Dragon, by all means have confidence in your side, but a couple of points of order. Rollands decision was not rash, it was correct. And why the need to drag England into a thread about Wales and France. It strikes me that what you are trying to achieve is not actualy a discussion about Wales, but a bashing of other nations which is a bit sad really.

In relation to your assertion that losing to France would be a disgrace and Gatland must go should it happen, that is utter nonsense.

This is a French side packed with quality players, who man for man are the equal of their Welsh opponent in most positions. What the Welsh have done in the past 12 months is gelled themselves into a cohesive unit, capable of winning games without playing at 100%. That is the mark of a very good side.

France on the other hand have failed in that regard, and are still a collection of talented individuals rather than a team, and for that reason I would suggest that Wales should, and most likely will beat them. However, should it all click for France on the day, that may not happen. It will be no disgrace, it will merely be a defeat to another talented side.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Running Dragon wrote:Not wishing to disrespect the French, but this side is one of worst I,ve seen in a long time. A terrible world cup, losing 3 times in the group stages and scraping through to the final thanks to a rash tackle and an equally rash refereeing decision. So far this 6N they`ve looked fairly clueless and dare I say, gutless, I mean they even lost to an England team who don`t know the meaning of attacking rugby. Of course we could lose as the French do have some quality players but if we did it would be of our own doing as if we play well France won`t be even to stay close. I predict Wales by 20 and if we lose, Gatland will have to leave on the first plane back to obscurity.

Lets have a 606 sweep, I say Wales by 20

Oh dear. That is pretty much my first reaction to reading this.

Dragon, by all means have confidence in your side, but a couple of points of order. Rollands decision was not rash, it was correct. And why the need to drag England into a thread about Wales and France. It strikes me that what you are trying to achieve is not actualy a discussion about Wales, but a bashing of other nations which is a bit sad really.

In relation to your assertion that losing to France would be a disgrace and Gatland must go should it happen, that is utter nonsense.

This is a French side packed with quality players, who man for man are the equal of their Welsh opponent in most positions. What the Welsh have done in the past 12 months is gelled themselves into a cohesive unit, capable of winning games without playing at 100%. That is the mark of a very good side.

France on the other hand have failed in that regard, and are still a collection of talented individuals rather than a team, and for that reason I would suggest that Wales should, and most likely will beat them. However, should it all click for France on the day, that may not happen. It will be no disgrace, it will merely be a defeat to another talented side.

Pretty much what I have been saying all along.

If Wales lose it will be simply because we played badly or tactically wrong (which would be inexcusable from a coaching standpoint), but if we don`t we will win well, simple as that, no matter what French team turn up as they are not a good side. They have some good players but not as many as the cliche loving posters will have you believe, the second row is weak, the front row average in the tight, non existent in the loose, half backs all over the place, centres ineffective etc. Shame to allow facts to interfere with a good cliche!

It`s not about disrespect it`s about realism, we will respect the French but know that if we play well there will only be one result.

I've not mentioned any cliches Dragon, nor the word disrespect. I have agreed that Wales are a better side.

Consider this. Rugby is essentially a game where 15 men try to impose themselves physically on another 15 men. On any given the day the lesser side can be sufficiently fired up enough to physically at least come close their opponents. If that occurs and with 79 minutes on the clock that odd shaped ball should bounce in Frances favour giving them the win will that be a disgrace?

No, it won't is the answer. The simple fact is that it is never going to be a disgrace for any tier 1 rugby nation to lose to another tier rugby nation.

For that reason, your post is a bit of a nonsense really.

#JustSaying

It was not that long ago on this site that Wales were considered a 3rd tier nation. Now how disrespectful is that!! How times change in 12 months!!

How long ago was that Woodstock? It must have been a while because although i am getting older and the memeory is not what it once was, I cannot ever remember a time that Wales were considered a 3rd tier nation on here.

In any case, even if a few posters on an internet forum would seek to wind others up by suggesting it, it doesn't make it true. This is tier 1 against tier 1, as it always has been.

Disgrace if youplay your guts out and the ball bounces the wrong way or the ref makes a 50/50 decision against you or it pours down with rain the pitch is a swamp and the game is a lottery or the French are inspired as they sometimes are .Was it a disgrace when they outplayed France with 14 men and lost I don't think so ,.

There is enough pressure on these young men without such emotive language and yes I expect them to win but it is Rugby and there are two teams on the field and sometimes anything can happen.

Absolutely spot on pontylad

I wish we were playing Italy this weekend.

I just hope it's all square at half time or France just in front - if France are behind I think they'll come out and play well in the second half.

Here's a cliche: Wales have to go up the middle and earn the right to go wide.

Its stilkl a 3rd world nation woodstock, just theyve managed to string together a decent team whilst everyone else is restructuring

Sorry joking aside its stupid to write Farnce off on the back of some lacklustre performances. Wales lost to them in the world cup when they were playing equally as limply (actually worse) and in last years six nations when they were fairly poor too.
On paper this side is capable of much better, and has shown glimpses of that ( 20 minutes against England in the world cup ...gits). We saw with Ireland last year that a misifirng team can suddenly have a good day when it suddenly functions as designed. Weve also seen that Wales are well capable of playing below their own potential at times.

Its Wales game to lose, but if France " turn up" thats a distinct possibility. They have a side stacked with class players, and havent picked Dupuy for this game ( although how the 10 kept his place ...)

slartibartfast wrote:Here's a cliche: Wales have to go up the middle and earn the right to go wide.

Not sure if I am qualified to comment on that, but we use the same one for the Springboks.

biltongbek wrote:Mystir I agree with you, my point is being overconfident to the point where you disregard the opposition on a whole isn't realistic.

yeah but you know what its like, most posters including myself dont allways literally mean what they say! and many or others do it just to provoke reaction. but then it does fuel debate..

True, intellectual debate with reasonable people is satisfying, that's why I am here. I don't enjoy SA sites becase they all agree and complain about the same issues.

This is one of the worst posts I have ever read.

Depending on which team turns up on the day, there is nothing between Wales and France and if you genuinely think France are going to roll-over to a 20 point loss then I think you're deluded.

Luckily for you, this level-headed Welsh outfit won't be approaching the game with your arrogance and should edge what will definitely be a hard-fought game in which neither side will 'disgrace' themselves.

Adam wrote: neither side will 'disgrace' themselves.

I dunno you could argue they both managed it last time they played.

I think Dragon makes a small point, even though a very crude and ignorant one.

This French side isn't in transition, it is lacking the one thing French teams have had in the past, the flare to beat people.

If you look at the players that really inspire the French, Parra, Clerc, Medard, Chabal etc, the exciting, the game breaking the inspiring.

I don't see this team as having much of that, Fofana has shown glimpses, and will be a threat, but both centres have shown me nothing of the ability to change a game, Pallison and Poit are good players but are they really game changers? I think the Welsh back 3 can contain those 2 comfortably, and the Welsh centres should cause Rougerie, who is trying to play playmaker, and doesn't have the pace anymore, and Fritz some real trouble.

Thats why I think Beauxis is in there, to play the territory game, and pressure the Welsh into mistakes.

I think Yachvilli will struggle against a vastly bigger Phillips, if Phillips can get to him, and the BR of Dus Bonn and Hari arent going to be able to do enough damage up the middle. And the 2nd row partnership are good, but full of more potential than ability at present.

I agree with Dragon that the final doesn't really prove much, they are always tense affairs, even England gave SA a game in 2007 despite the obvious gap in quality (no offence)

I have seen nothing from this French side that worries me a great deal, except for the fact they have all but beaten themselves in the 2 home games, yet still could've and arguably shouldv'e won both. They gave up nothing and fought tooth and nail till the end, had to get themselves out of 2 holes and nearly did twice. Their spirits do not drop and they even look more dangerous when they have little to play for, which they have at the minute.

So whereas I agree in part with Dragon (not about the disgrace part, that statement is the only disgrace around here) I also think that theres a reason why a cornered tiger is most dangerous, when a team such as France are in a tight corner and have nothing to lose from the worst that can happen, whats stopping them from just going out and throwing it around a bit, trying the unexpected etc. In todays game where structure is everything that could prove very costly for us!

But then the lineup looks like a conservative structure and thoughtfull one, maybe I give them too much credit..

I had posted Wales by 16 - 20, but now I'm thinking more 11 - 15.

bluesman, agree with all of that.

I think it would have been a better call from PSA to have gone with Parra/FTD at half back as they would give Wales a lot more to think about defensively than the selected pair.

Running Dragon wrote:If Wales lose it will be simply because we played badly or tactically wrong (which would be inexcusable from a coaching standpoint), but if we don`t we will win well, simple as that, no matter what French team turn up as they are not a good side. They have some good players but not as many as the cliche loving posters will have you believe, the second row is weak, the front row average in the tight, non existent in the loose, half backs all over the place, centres ineffective etc. Shame to allow facts to interfere with a good cliche!

It`s not about disrespect it`s about realism, we will respect the French but know that if we play well there will only be one result.

I would agree that there is some weaknesses in this french team but come on 2nd row is certainly not one of them ! do you actually have an idea of what you are talking about ?

Ozzy

100% agree mate, I would be very worried about that partnership, but coming off the bench I only worry about Parra. He can inject pace into any side, and made a hell of a difference against England. The only problem with that is that he only comes on if they are struggling, and they need to open up, if they are ahead by a few he won't see any gametime, and well I thought the same about Beauxis but when he went off V England I was stunned. Drop goal to win it and the very reason he starts and he goes off for a running threat with a poor boot!!!

I cannot remember a time when Wales was concidered a 3rd tier nation.

Maybe before the start of Pro rugby, but certanly not since it whent pro.

Ozzy3213 is right this is tier 1 against another tier 1 team, so who ever loses will not be disgraced at all.

Wales are looking very good right now, they are not the finished article by a long way. But they are the only team that have won all their 4 games, Now they go into the last week end of the tournament wanting 1 more game for the Grand Slam, if they win they will have deserved it.

But dont expect France to simply roll over and let Wales win. No France want to win this last game as mutch as Wales do, and you can bet they will be fired up for this game.

Disrespect France and write them off at your peril.

I am looking more forward to this game than i am watching England v Ireland. Why? Well if Wales lose, then England will have a chance to retain the 6ns title.

Here is to a great week end of rugby.

The word disgrace seems to have caused the most upset, so let me clarify.
Most posters agree that Wales are comfortably the better team no matter what French team turns up, so a loss will be a disgrace, not for the team but for the coaches, mainly Gatland. When you consider the quality of player he has to work with, Wales should have beaten France well in the RWC semi even with 14 men and then would probably ( maybe being overly optimistic but I think not) have beaten the ABs in the final. We shouldn`t be scrabbling for 4th in the rankings with the likes of England but for first with the ABs.
However if we win well on Saturday I think he should carry on but if we don`t win the series well against Aus in the summer then he must go as he will be squandering the best or at least top 2 squad of players in the world.

One thing I do worry about is 1/2p's neck, looking up at those bombs all day with Rougerie and Fritz charging at him is bound to take it's toll.

I have a bet on that France will put at least 6 up in the first 25 mins, 15 - 1 is pretty good.

Dragon you are definately a new user account aren't you, come on youv'e been rumbled through your baiting, own up and act like a man for the first time in your life, who are you really?

thebluesmancometh wrote:Dragon you are definately a new user account aren't you, come on youv'e been rumbled through your baiting, own up and act like a man for the first time in your life, who are you really?

I`a long time poster from the old 606 days and detest all the drivel and BS posted by many on this board who are clearly adolescents with not a clue. When Wales are pants Im the first to say it, when we`re clearly the best, ditto. End of.

And when did you join this site generic Welsh name? Disrespecting all and sunder with your awful attempt at winding people up?

Mate you have humiliated yourself, if you've been banned stay banned, unless your going for some sort of record, how many accounts are you up to now?

Running Dragon wrote:
Most posters agree that Wales are comfortably the better team no matter what French team turns up, so a loss will be a disgrace, not for the team but for the coaches, mainly Gatland. When you consider the quality of player he has to work with, Wales should have beaten France well in the RWC semi even with 14 men and then would probably ( maybe being overly optimistic but I think not) have beaten the ABs in the final. We shouldn`t be scrabbling for 4th in the rankings with the likes of England but for first with the ABs.

Sorry are you trying to argue that teh qaulity of the Welsh players is significatntly better than that iof the French?
That all form and coaching considerrations aside they are more than the match of the French?

Id argue that France are the stronger paper team, stacked with players who have proven their quality over a number of years as top NH performers. Gatland has done a much better job than the previous and current French coaches to get Wales to a state where they have been the best team in the NH over the last 6 months.
Prior to that they were etty rank though, and its only a couple of years since a French team with many of theame players as this one looked like teh stand out class of the 6 nations with avery convincing slam.

If someone could get these French players organised, motivated and playing to their potential then they woudl be a much better side than Wales ar enow. Its a credit to Gatland that hes turned a good group of players into a side thats arguably better than the sum total of their parts. Hes got most of them playing at the top of their game and to an effective plan, which is as much as you can ask. If the French do the same, it will be a heck of contest for them


I can only conclude that I have fallen for a wind up

thebluesmancometh wrote:And when did you join this site generic Welsh name? Disrespecting all and sunder with your awful attempt at winding people up?

Mate you have humiliated yourself, if you've been banned stay banned, unless your going for some sort of record, how many accounts are you up to now?

Great post blueman, well articulated, argued and concluded I can see that we`ll be crossing swords and having many a great debate in the future.

oh gawd its the new tgg/mitey

like the name running dragon- let the games begin!

At least it isn't crouching TGG/Mitey

Generic Welsh name

Not unless you can up your game by 250%

You are a poor version of your former self mister I joined yesterday... again!

Running Dragon wrote:The word disgrace seems to have caused the most upset, so let me clarify.
Most posters agree that Wales are comfortably the better team no matter what French team turns up, so a loss will be a disgrace, not for the team but for the coaches, mainly Gatland. When you consider the quality of player he has to work with, Wales should have beaten France well in the RWC semi even with 14 men and then would probably ( maybe being overly optimistic but I think not) have beaten the ABs in the final. We shouldn`t be scrabbling for 4th in the rankings with the likes of England but for first with the ABs.
However if we win well on Saturday I think he should carry on but if we don`t win the series well against Aus in the summer then he must go as he will be squandering the best or at least top 2 squad of players in the world.

Cloud cuckoo land. This wales squad have played Oz twice recently and lost both times. The last time you beat the ABs the kingdom was still in the grip of post WW2 rationing. Wales have never beaten NZ in NZ. Incidentally England, a side you clearly think very little of have won their last two encounters with Oz home and away. Such a poor WUM and not remotely amusing

If this guy is really TGG and/or mitey then he has Not only completely lost his touch but also had a sense of humour bypass

Kiwi

Leave it out and get back to your original account, your much more fun in that one!