Losing the Faith

Morning guys,

Just really wanted to get something off my chest - I'm losing the passion for boxing. I look back at great boxers, great events and great champions and look forward and find myself thinking "will it ever be that way again?" I'm struggling to find things to love about boxing now - the matches I find myself watching have less of an impact on me than before, when Lewis was fighting in America, I'd stay up until 3 to catch it, when Tyson was fighting Evander Holyfield, I'd stay up with my dad, us both getting excited about the fight - Benn/Eubank, even to a lesser extent Roy Jones Jr, Gatti/Ward etc. These were real boxers, people to be proud of.

I'm in the amateur game myself - nothing spectacular (despite my brush with fame of "sparring" with Kell Brook in my mind) so I'll never go anywhere, and I started to really get the feeling of what it feels like to engage, and to be honest, its exhilarating. I'm somewhat too old now to turn semi-pro or pro, I've left it too long, but I look at the situation domestically with people like Tyson Fury, Nathan Cleverly and I find myself wondering why they don't challenge themselves. Is this what boxing has become? All about the money?

There are massive fights out there for even developing boxers like Tyson Fury and Kell Brook, yet they seem content with delivering the same old crap, treating us like mugs and selling tickets. Honestly, the only domestic fight in the UK thats worth even thinking about this year is going to be Froch vs Bute. Every other fight, even Brook vs Hatton is really scraping the barrel. Don't get me wrong, i appreciate fighters need time to grow, but they also need to have the scope to grow rather than languish in the "euro level until they fight a contender" levels. Kell Brook should have been matched against Mike Jones or another top rated contender. This would have completed his rise, and made him known both sides of the Atlantic. Nathan Cleverly should be forced to fight his mandatory. That can't be hidden from. Frank Warren is a disgrace. He can't just pick "a top 10 rated opponent" for his Champion after a poor defense against a low ranked "challenger" and claim to the public its going to be a good fight.

I think whats triggered this also is the Press Conference between Tyson Fury and Martin Rogan. I was so disappointed with the way they spoke about David Price. Thats a guy who wanted to fight him. He was mandatory, Mick Hennessey says "I offered him the fight on terrestrial TV and he turned it down" - what a load of cobblers. Fury wouldn't have needed to vacate if that were the case. This is the garbage we're fed!

The boxing scene in America is just as bad, you look at their biggest stars who won't fight each other. Pacquiao isn't even a national and is regarded as a superhero despite not fighting Mayweather, and Mayweather fights once every when he feels like it. We're fed balony by both camps about the fight and expected to believe it. Bob Arum is fooling the general populace and despite the guys here knowing so much about boxing, we're in the minority. You ask anyone on the street who Deontay Wilder is and nobody knows. My girlfriend doesn't even know the difference between the Klitschko's. Time was, you knew who was heavyweight champion of the world no matter who you were. Now sadly it seems to have been lost and I see no future. James DeGale - now disappearing into the abyss because he fell out with his promoter. Dereck Chisora getting a title shot on the back of 2 losses. No future..

Not while promoters feed their rubbish to a population that accepts it.

Can anyone tell me how I can re-ignite my passion? Any silver linings that can be taken from the current state of boxing? As it stands its difficult to see anything.

Or you can all ignore me

alma wrote:The main issue I have now is boxnation and frank warren. Marginalized the sport and it's not even in HD

Quite agree. I am genuinely saddened at the amount of support that monstrosity of a channel gets on here. There has been a few discussions about it previously and the overwhelming majority of people appear to be supportive of it and I just don't understand.

They could have Mayweather v Pacquiao, Donaire v Gamboa and the Klitschko brothers facing off and I wouldn't give that channel a penny of my money.

We're all doomed I tell ya. All doomed.

The main issue I see is how siloed the sport is - We have governing bodies who are happy to strip titles from boxers who want to unify (Martinez for example). Promoters who will refuse to do business with others (Top Rank/GBP) and of course a large amount of channels which we have to pay for seperately (Sky Sports/PPV/Primetime/Boxnation).

There is no other sport I know where a fan would spend near on £500 to watch at home, and even then we still don't get the whole scene (I'd love to watch the US Friday Night Fights live to see the up coming talent!).

At least with sports such as Football, F1, Tennis, Golf or *insert ANY other sport here other than MMA* there is one governing organisation overseeing all contracts and coverage. Boxing is akin to the Wild West, where any thing goes.

What used to be one of the richest sports has been consumed by greed, not by the consumer but the manufacturer - and it's this greed that has near on ruined it.

I know who the true champions are in each weight division, but it's a mine-field for any new fan and this is what is turning people off the sport, they often question - "why should I bother?".

A simple resolution would be to have the sanctioning bodies reduce to just 1. Something like the Unisputed Champion. One belt, thats it. A domestic belt, European, then world.

The top 6 will compete in a super 6 style tournament with the winner facing the champion of that specific weight division.


FOR EXAMPLE, LIGHT WELTERWEIGHT:

(this is based on Khan beating Peterson for the WBA title)

WBA Champ - Khan vs WBO Champ - Bradley
WBC Champ - Morales vs IBF Champ - Peterson

Winners of each fight face each other to become UNDISPUTED.

Then, we have a super 6 tourny, where it would be:

MORALES, PETERSON, BRADLEY, SOTO, GARCIA, HOLT

The winner would fight the UNDISPUTED CHAMP.

Whilst that tourny is going on, the champion fights fighters ranked from 7-10 (4 fights over 2 years).

So for example, Khan would fight Brandon Rios, Kevin Mitchell, Joan Guzman and Julio Diaz over the 2 years.

Then we may end up with Rios vs Morales, or whatever.

As opposed to having "fake champs". The PPV revenue for constant top fights would be great.

I mean, look at the Middleweights, you could have that tourny and it would be:

Chavez Jr vs Martinez
Pirog vs Sturm

Winner of each fight becomes undisputed (probably martinez)

Then you would commence the Super 6:

Chavez Jr, Pirog, Sturm, Golovkin, Proksa, Adamu.

Meanwhile, Martinez fights 4 fights over 2 years, they would be against Taylor, Lee, Rubio, Murray.

Obviously its a risk for the champ, because if he loses, he loses everything. But this way, he HAS to fight the top ten fighters constantly, then fight a winner of an active super 6 fighter of that division.

I just don't see it going that way though. honestly when things start looking promising - it all comes crashing down again and we're back to square one.

What boxing needs at something of a superhero - who does everything right but by himself. Promotes himself, avoids the circus of TV/Tickets and fights for nothing. I know it won't exist, but what I know would change the face of boxing is one person showing what its REALLY about. Even in the one organisation you'll have promoters bitching and backbiting to get their fighters the shots over others. There will be politics like "oh well X isn't going to be ready in X weeks, why not let X fight X in X weeks instead" etc. Greed will prevail as it always does.

More ideas though! I'm sure the brightest and most knowledgeable boxing community has a lot to offer! Maybe we can compile a list and start a petition for something like more sanctioning of mandatories and less lea-way given to promoters.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I just don't see it going that way though. honestly when things start looking promising - it all comes crashing down again and we're back to square one.

What boxing needs at something of a superhero - who does everything right but by himself. Promotes himself, avoids the circus of TV/Tickets and fights for nothing. I know it won't exist, but what I know would change the face of boxing is one person showing what its REALLY about. Even in the one organisation you'll have promoters bitching and backbiting to get their fighters the shots over others. There will be politics like "oh well X isn't going to be ready in X weeks, why not let X fight X in X weeks instead" etc. Greed will prevail as it always does.

More ideas though! I'm sure the brightest and most knowledgeable boxing community has a lot to offer! Maybe we can compile a list and start a petition for something like more sanctioning of mandatories and less lea-way given to promoters.

That post made me remember something that came from the Sugar Ray Leonard interview the other day - Something along the lines of: He met with Ali before a fight and Leonard had only recently turned pro, Ali gave him one timeless piece of advice - "Be your own man, make no man own you".

On reflection, Leonards acheivements are based on the fact that, yes he was superb and also his fights with some of the toughest opponents in the game... and to think. He made those fights happen, because he WANTED them (in all fairness the Big 4 all did) but that was without the issue of "Which station will bid for it?! Will I have to give up my title?! My promoter wants me to fight someone else?! God told me to retire!".

That superhero would have to be the 2nd coming of Leonard.

Boxing isn't in as bad a state as people like to say. Wilder, Mitchell, Price are all exciting heavy prospects. Cruiser is pap - but Lebedev is decent to watch - and Lebedev-Frenkel would be an interesting contest. If Frenkel decides he fancies fighting again.

Martinez always gives a good fight at middle. Brook is good to watch at welter. LHW is a bit of a joke at the moment - so I'll wait until there's a clear #1 before being excited by the division. Bute-Ward would be a good fight at 168 - but Bute is fighting Froch away from home - which is still exciting.

Cotto is fighting Floyd - and frankly - as long as Cotto is fighting - I'll be excited. A good value for money fighter, Miguel.

Below LW - Donaire is good to watch and there a few other decent fighters as well.

All depends how you look at things. Really - the biggest problem in boxing is the dearth of "real" world champions - in all honesty - other than Martinez - and arguably Cotto at 154 (although you could say Martinez is uncrowned king there, too) - who is an undisputed recognised champion at a weight? Marquez at 135 and Donaire.

Hopkins at light heavyweight is in my mind the undisputed champion which is on the line against Dawson.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Hopkins at light heavyweight is in my mind the undisputed champion which is on the line against Dawson.

Call me picky - but I like my champions to be a bit more undisputed. I agree - Hoppo is close - however - we have Dawson, Shumenov, and Pascal still floating in and around the mix.

If Dawson beats Hoppo, we're in an awkward position. If Hoppo beats Dawson - I'll call him #1, due to Shumenov's habit of not fighting other beltholders.

As I say - he's probably closest to a clear #1 of anyone - but I don't have him quite there.

I don't think that Pascal, Dawson or Shumenov have a legitimate claim to be number one.

Shumenov- Well hasn't really beaten anyone
Pascal- Beats the number one in Dawson making him the champion before losing to Hopkins
Dawson- Lost his fight to be champion against Pascal but has the chance to win it against Hopkins

Hopkins beating Pascal is exactly the same as Martinez beating Pavlik at middleweight.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I don't think that Pascal, Dawson or Shumenov have a legitimate claim to be number one.

Shumenov- Well hasn't really beaten anyone
Pascal- Beats the number one in Dawson making him the champion before losing to Hopkins
Dawson- Lost his fight to be champion against Pascal but has the chance to win it against Hopkins

Hopkins beating Pascal is exactly the same as Martinez beating Pavlik at middleweight.

EXCEPT! Martinez beat Williams afterwards to solidify his claim as the best north of WW and south of 160. Whereas Hoppo had the farce against Dawson (not his fault). That's my reasoning for making Martinez such a clear #1.

The only thing going against Hopkins for me is the close loss to Calzaghe a few years ago, except for that he's been a clear number one in the division.

i kind of agree with your article , boxnation boils my blood , you have top up and comeing boxers like george groves and a brittish boxer [ thug chisora! ] fighting for wbc heavywight world championship and its all on a channel that hardly anyone has heard of shocking ! remember when people were talking at work all week and getting ready for big saturday night in to watch eubank , watson benn calzage lewis hammed or hatton! not that long ago , to me sky sports dont do enough they should be able to blow warren out the water and bring back boxing to the masses , they are fantasitc at hyping big fights , [ when they happen ] which is the other thing that really annoys me !
the big fights takeing so long to happen its a disgrace , the haye vitali should be signed and ready to go by now ! but the money grabbing beonte has basically put a stop to it so he can keep the klitschko cash cow going ! no threat of being beat and lineing his pockets , the same can be said about bob arum , wont let manny fight floyd incase he loses and stops lineing his pockets , the whole floyd v manny thing sums up modern day boxing to me and i think only the hard core boxing fan really cares if it happens or not now anyway