PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Golf
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PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
1).Great to see the 2011 model Luke Donald prove he's lost none of his competitive edge with an exciting Transitions win last week, in circumstances that Ernie Els could only smoulder about. Have to feel sorry for the Big Easy; he gave himself the chance to resurrect his career and came up short. Actually short and right, then pulled left.
2).But that shouldn't detract from Luke's performance, clearly the best under playoff pressure, and now he's off for two weeks' practice before heading down Magnolia Lane with a confidence booster under his belt.
3).The Copperhead Course at Innisbrook Resort is considered by the pros to be the best of the "Florida Swing", but Transitions conclude their sponsorship this year and this Tampa-area stop remains the only PGA Tournament without a sponsor for 2013. The broadcasters last weekend seemed to consider a new sponsorship agreement was imminent, but no such optimism from Timmy Finchem in his news conference yesterday. Fingers crossed that a great event can be saved.
4).Finchem also has to find a sponsor for his secondary circuit, known currently as the Nationwide Tour. To try and build pizzaz and make his minor league effort more attractive to sponsors, he announced anticipated changes yesterday to the FedEx season, the PGA Tour season and the qualifying process.
Some details are posted here by pgatour.com:
http://www.pgatour.com/2012/company/03/20/schedule-nationwide-changes/index.html#
We'll all have different reactions, and some details have still to be worked out, the most ticklish being:
~How to dovetail the top 75 Nationwide players and PGA Tour moneylist #126 to #200 to assure the most deserving are given the best advantage to graduate from the brand new 3 event qualifying series.
and:
~~How to treat existing Fall Series events which now become the first tournaments of the 2013/2014 season. Do they receive full FedEx points? Do the winners receive a Masters invitation?? etc etc. The "Fry's.com" currently at the forefront of that debate.
The party line from the PGA Tour pros is: "In Tim we trust". Snedeker goes somewhat further and reminds us that it took the Tour four years to get the FedEx formula correct. We can't afford to have four goes at this, says Sneds, we have to get this right first time.
But there are sceptics: JB Holmes, who along with such luminaries as Dustin Johnson, Anthony Kim, Rickie Fowler, John Huh, etc reached the Tour first time via Q-School, had this to say:
"So we're going to end the season in September, then basically start it again a week later. We make all these (FedEx Cup six years ago) changes so that the season ends before (American) football starts, now we're back competing against football again.
Dumbest thing I've ever heard, and you can quote me on that." Thanks JB!
5).My feeling is that Finchem is missing a host of great storylines with his Q-School changes but, when the dust has settled, there will be only marginal impacts, primarily to the following:
a).Top international players outside the world's top 50, viz the Brian Davises, Alex Cjekas of this world who won't attract sponsors' invites and will be subjected to a two-year qualifying process. They might as well stay at home. And that's most probably Finchem's thinking, as he closes his shop to all but the most marketable "overseas" players.
b).US Collegiate players who would normally have a direct route to the "show" via Q-School. Unless they attract sponsors' exemptions and reach the top 200 money winners, they have a best case two-year road to get to the Tour.
c).The two-Tour double-dippers, think Oosthuizen, Westwood, Casey, Stenson etc who only play the minimum of 15 events. Currently they would bank on four FedEx tournaments contributing to those 15 with the knowledge that they could add a Fall Series event if necessary. But now, if they don't qualify for East Lake, they're stuck on 13 or 14, in Finchem's handcuffs, so they'll have to add an event or even two.
d).Lastly, Medical Exemptions are going to have to be thought through - no incentive to play through injury, go on the injured list asap.
6).Enough of that fluff, there are more important things in life:
Jarrod Lyle update: "I've finished my first round of chemotherapy, so I'm pretty much lying here in bed waiting to get an infection."
Lyle's sense of humour is irrepressible: "My immune system was pretty bad before I came in to hospital, now I'm a lot worse. It's one of those situations where you've got to get a lot worse before you get better. I'm just taking it day by day now."
7).And so to the Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational at his Bay Hill Club outside Orlando. The winner this week, and next week in Houston, (but not on the European or any other Tours, oh no, no, no, no) will receive a Masters invitation, and so will the owgr top fifty not otherwise qualified as at Monday, March 26th. I'm assuming Paul Lawrie, at #45, is secure, so those who are on the bubble, with an approximation of what they need to do this week, are:
#48: Ben Crane: Playing Bay Hill and likely needs at least a top 18 finish to be sure.
#53: Goosen took the Tavistock money and rushed off for treatment on his ailing back rather than play Bay Hill and try to gain Masters entry. Bizarre and you'd rather think that, given that attitude, his career goose is cooked.
#57: Rock: Playing in Morocco and almost certainly needs to win, second place probably not quite enough.
#60: Chalmers: Playing Bay Hill, likely would qualify with a solo 3rd.
#61: Manassero: Playing Morocco and needs to win! Paying the price exacted by Billy Payne for not being Japanese.
#62: Els: Oh that missed par putt on Copperhead's 18th! Now needs at least a Bay Hill 2nd place - but he won here two years ago!
#64 and #65 Allenby and HowellIII might have a very mathematical chance with a 2nd place finish at Bay Hill, but their final destiny is out of their control given possible fluidity in and out of the top fifty.
8).If it's the Arnie Invitational it must be Sam Saunders on the tee, oh yes, and Robert Damron too. A bunch of others with similarly tenuous qualifications also. Come on Arnie, this is called abuse of power; these guys are not competitive and you've given them more than enough breaks. (Though there are rumours that Sam Saunders will be mailed a Masters invitation should he make this week's cut.)
9).One of the toughest tournaments to pick a winner at this week, Woods obviously with the most "previous" but who knows how fit he is (except possibly Hank Haney)? I like Webb Simpson's chances on lots of levels, but can't recommend anything more than a small e.w. investment on anyone, O'Hair and Jacobson rank outsiders with a touch of form here.
10).Martin Laird "defends" his title, McDowell has played well here and Poulter makes an appearance after his pneumonia and uncompetitive appearance at Doral. I'd imagine Justin Rose is running on fumes and Thomas Bjorn has withdrawn. Greg Owen is back, and can he make up for his mega-collapse a few years ago?
Stranger things have happened, just ask Tim Finchem.
2).But that shouldn't detract from Luke's performance, clearly the best under playoff pressure, and now he's off for two weeks' practice before heading down Magnolia Lane with a confidence booster under his belt.
3).The Copperhead Course at Innisbrook Resort is considered by the pros to be the best of the "Florida Swing", but Transitions conclude their sponsorship this year and this Tampa-area stop remains the only PGA Tournament without a sponsor for 2013. The broadcasters last weekend seemed to consider a new sponsorship agreement was imminent, but no such optimism from Timmy Finchem in his news conference yesterday. Fingers crossed that a great event can be saved.
4).Finchem also has to find a sponsor for his secondary circuit, known currently as the Nationwide Tour. To try and build pizzaz and make his minor league effort more attractive to sponsors, he announced anticipated changes yesterday to the FedEx season, the PGA Tour season and the qualifying process.
Some details are posted here by pgatour.com:
http://www.pgatour.com/2012/company/03/20/schedule-nationwide-changes/index.html#
We'll all have different reactions, and some details have still to be worked out, the most ticklish being:
~How to dovetail the top 75 Nationwide players and PGA Tour moneylist #126 to #200 to assure the most deserving are given the best advantage to graduate from the brand new 3 event qualifying series.
and:
~~How to treat existing Fall Series events which now become the first tournaments of the 2013/2014 season. Do they receive full FedEx points? Do the winners receive a Masters invitation?? etc etc. The "Fry's.com" currently at the forefront of that debate.
The party line from the PGA Tour pros is: "In Tim we trust". Snedeker goes somewhat further and reminds us that it took the Tour four years to get the FedEx formula correct. We can't afford to have four goes at this, says Sneds, we have to get this right first time.
But there are sceptics: JB Holmes, who along with such luminaries as Dustin Johnson, Anthony Kim, Rickie Fowler, John Huh, etc reached the Tour first time via Q-School, had this to say:
"So we're going to end the season in September, then basically start it again a week later. We make all these (FedEx Cup six years ago) changes so that the season ends before (American) football starts, now we're back competing against football again.
Dumbest thing I've ever heard, and you can quote me on that." Thanks JB!
5).My feeling is that Finchem is missing a host of great storylines with his Q-School changes but, when the dust has settled, there will be only marginal impacts, primarily to the following:
a).Top international players outside the world's top 50, viz the Brian Davises, Alex Cjekas of this world who won't attract sponsors' invites and will be subjected to a two-year qualifying process. They might as well stay at home. And that's most probably Finchem's thinking, as he closes his shop to all but the most marketable "overseas" players.
b).US Collegiate players who would normally have a direct route to the "show" via Q-School. Unless they attract sponsors' exemptions and reach the top 200 money winners, they have a best case two-year road to get to the Tour.
c).The two-Tour double-dippers, think Oosthuizen, Westwood, Casey, Stenson etc who only play the minimum of 15 events. Currently they would bank on four FedEx tournaments contributing to those 15 with the knowledge that they could add a Fall Series event if necessary. But now, if they don't qualify for East Lake, they're stuck on 13 or 14, in Finchem's handcuffs, so they'll have to add an event or even two.
d).Lastly, Medical Exemptions are going to have to be thought through - no incentive to play through injury, go on the injured list asap.
6).Enough of that fluff, there are more important things in life:
Jarrod Lyle update: "I've finished my first round of chemotherapy, so I'm pretty much lying here in bed waiting to get an infection."
Lyle's sense of humour is irrepressible: "My immune system was pretty bad before I came in to hospital, now I'm a lot worse. It's one of those situations where you've got to get a lot worse before you get better. I'm just taking it day by day now."
7).And so to the Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational at his Bay Hill Club outside Orlando. The winner this week, and next week in Houston, (but not on the European or any other Tours, oh no, no, no, no) will receive a Masters invitation, and so will the owgr top fifty not otherwise qualified as at Monday, March 26th. I'm assuming Paul Lawrie, at #45, is secure, so those who are on the bubble, with an approximation of what they need to do this week, are:
#48: Ben Crane: Playing Bay Hill and likely needs at least a top 18 finish to be sure.
#53: Goosen took the Tavistock money and rushed off for treatment on his ailing back rather than play Bay Hill and try to gain Masters entry. Bizarre and you'd rather think that, given that attitude, his career goose is cooked.
#57: Rock: Playing in Morocco and almost certainly needs to win, second place probably not quite enough.
#60: Chalmers: Playing Bay Hill, likely would qualify with a solo 3rd.
#61: Manassero: Playing Morocco and needs to win! Paying the price exacted by Billy Payne for not being Japanese.
#62: Els: Oh that missed par putt on Copperhead's 18th! Now needs at least a Bay Hill 2nd place - but he won here two years ago!
#64 and #65 Allenby and HowellIII might have a very mathematical chance with a 2nd place finish at Bay Hill, but their final destiny is out of their control given possible fluidity in and out of the top fifty.
8).If it's the Arnie Invitational it must be Sam Saunders on the tee, oh yes, and Robert Damron too. A bunch of others with similarly tenuous qualifications also. Come on Arnie, this is called abuse of power; these guys are not competitive and you've given them more than enough breaks. (Though there are rumours that Sam Saunders will be mailed a Masters invitation should he make this week's cut.)
9).One of the toughest tournaments to pick a winner at this week, Woods obviously with the most "previous" but who knows how fit he is (except possibly Hank Haney)? I like Webb Simpson's chances on lots of levels, but can't recommend anything more than a small e.w. investment on anyone, O'Hair and Jacobson rank outsiders with a touch of form here.
10).Martin Laird "defends" his title, McDowell has played well here and Poulter makes an appearance after his pneumonia and uncompetitive appearance at Doral. I'd imagine Justin Rose is running on fumes and Thomas Bjorn has withdrawn. Greg Owen is back, and can he make up for his mega-collapse a few years ago?
Stranger things have happened, just ask Tim Finchem.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Great stuff kwini
Just saw that BVP decided to keep Bjorn some company and has withdrawn as well... Will update the owgr situation after all that on the other thread in a few minutes.
I quite like the Korean chances this year at Bay Hill...
Just saw that BVP decided to keep Bjorn some company and has withdrawn as well... Will update the owgr situation after all that on the other thread in a few minutes.
I quite like the Korean chances this year at Bay Hill...
princedracula- Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Read Arnie's reaction to the absence of world #1&2 (...&3&4&5&6) from his home show:
I’m disappointed that they are not here, no question about it. They are the top players on the Tour right now in the positions that they are in, and I am disappointed. I had a letter from Rory seeking my consultation, and he told me he wasn't coming. Of course, that made me feel great. And if you believe that, I'll talk to you outside afterwards.”
Ouch!!
I’m disappointed that they are not here, no question about it. They are the top players on the Tour right now in the positions that they are in, and I am disappointed. I had a letter from Rory seeking my consultation, and he told me he wasn't coming. Of course, that made me feel great. And if you believe that, I'll talk to you outside afterwards.”
Ouch!!
princedracula- Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Tremendous piece Kwini. The title had me laughing straight away!
The Sam Saunders invite from his uncle (?) is not surprising but one from Augusta would be shocking.
Pretty shrewd stuff from Finchem really. That should/could force a lot of the Westwoods and Kaymers to play a little earlier in the US season. One benefit from a world and euro golf point of view might be the change in 'status' of the HSBC WGC?
Fancy Ernie to make a real go at it this week. His putting looked pretty good at the Tavistock, for all that's worth. 40/1 is definitely worth an e/w I reckon...
The Sam Saunders invite from his uncle (?) is not surprising but one from Augusta would be shocking.
Pretty shrewd stuff from Finchem really. That should/could force a lot of the Westwoods and Kaymers to play a little earlier in the US season. One benefit from a world and euro golf point of view might be the change in 'status' of the HSBC WGC?
Fancy Ernie to make a real go at it this week. His putting looked pretty good at the Tavistock, for all that's worth. 40/1 is definitely worth an e/w I reckon...
Lairdy- Posts : 794
Join date : 2011-01-28
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Kwini
Even better than usual, really good read this week.
Even better than usual, really good read this week.
McLaren- Posts : 17620
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
If Ryo qualifies by right will they give another invite out?
sirbenson- Posts : 2808
Join date : 2011-06-04
Location : Dublin
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Btw why hasn't Steve Marino played since January?
sirbenson- Posts : 2808
Join date : 2011-06-04
Location : Dublin
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Very much doubt there'll be another invitation at this (relatively) late date.
Marino has been out for a while, not entirely clear why. He's had knee problems and also trouble with his back. Not to mention his weight.
Marino has been out for a while, not entirely clear why. He's had knee problems and also trouble with his back. Not to mention his weight.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
I think Gmac is due a good week wouldn't surprise me if he went close here, he is showing a few signs recently, same with O'Hair
sirbenson- Posts : 2808
Join date : 2011-06-04
Location : Dublin
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Thanks All,
Given some of the players Palmer has invited, and the reported pros' opinion (low) of the course and set-up, you could forgive #'s 1 and 2 for thinking this is an easy event to miss . . . .
Lairdy,
Finchem said yesterday that the HSBC would become an official PGA Tour event, official money and all, but said he would be making entry criteria changes (code for Mr.Woods having been on the percy thrower no doubt). Not sure how he can do that unilaterally but, given the lack of spine shown by O'Grady and the other world tour chinless wonders, it seems he can do what he likes.
He also suggested there might be changes, even a date change, to the Malaysian shindig. Not sure where it would fit elsewhere in the calendar, and maybe he's really decided that it's destined to shift venues outside Malaysia.
Given some of the players Palmer has invited, and the reported pros' opinion (low) of the course and set-up, you could forgive #'s 1 and 2 for thinking this is an easy event to miss . . . .
Lairdy,
Finchem said yesterday that the HSBC would become an official PGA Tour event, official money and all, but said he would be making entry criteria changes (code for Mr.Woods having been on the percy thrower no doubt). Not sure how he can do that unilaterally but, given the lack of spine shown by O'Grady and the other world tour chinless wonders, it seems he can do what he likes.
He also suggested there might be changes, even a date change, to the Malaysian shindig. Not sure where it would fit elsewhere in the calendar, and maybe he's really decided that it's destined to shift venues outside Malaysia.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Some Champions Tour news: Ian Woosnam has been added to the field this week, and Bernhard Langer's playing, of course.
Anders Forsbrand has a sponsor's invite - nice to see him playing, but Mouland and Lyle won't be impressed, they are alternates. Shame that Barry Lane is not getting any love from the sponsors.
Anders Forsbrand has a sponsor's invite - nice to see him playing, but Mouland and Lyle won't be impressed, they are alternates. Shame that Barry Lane is not getting any love from the sponsors.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
kwini,
Great to get some of the PGA Tour politics.
A couple of points.
If the re-structure makes it harder for young Europeans to get a full card and harder for the established players to play the minimum number of events, then probably more Europeans will play more in Europe and this could be good for ET.
If Ernie does not get into the top 50, surely he will get a Masters invite.
Great to get some of the PGA Tour politics.
A couple of points.
If the re-structure makes it harder for young Europeans to get a full card and harder for the established players to play the minimum number of events, then probably more Europeans will play more in Europe and this could be good for ET.
If Ernie does not get into the top 50, surely he will get a Masters invite.
ScottieD18- Posts : 375
Join date : 2011-05-30
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
"If Ernie does not get into the top 50, surely he will get a Masters invite."
Does anyone really think Ernie deserves to be there? After all his ranking and the fact he has not won in the last 12 months does not exactly tell a lie. He is in a poor run of form and not currently one of the worlds top players therefore he presence would not improve the masters field. With his current putting problems, although another poster noted his putting was ok last week, can he really cope with the ANGC greens?
Kwini
By making it harder for players to get onto the PGA tour from college by ensuring they need to play very well in a few sponsor invites or face a year or two on the nationwide has Finchem actually opened the tour up to more sponsor invites. The companies sponsoring golf tournaments presumably know the type of player they want to see wear the brand and Ricky fowler and DJ are just the type. I imagine they want to see the young “exciting” players on the pga tour and not languishing on the nationwide. So maybe the sponsors will force finchems hand to give these types of guys a few more sponsor invites to avoid having to go through the nationwide route?
Does anyone really think Ernie deserves to be there? After all his ranking and the fact he has not won in the last 12 months does not exactly tell a lie. He is in a poor run of form and not currently one of the worlds top players therefore he presence would not improve the masters field. With his current putting problems, although another poster noted his putting was ok last week, can he really cope with the ANGC greens?
Kwini
By making it harder for players to get onto the PGA tour from college by ensuring they need to play very well in a few sponsor invites or face a year or two on the nationwide has Finchem actually opened the tour up to more sponsor invites. The companies sponsoring golf tournaments presumably know the type of player they want to see wear the brand and Ricky fowler and DJ are just the type. I imagine they want to see the young “exciting” players on the pga tour and not languishing on the nationwide. So maybe the sponsors will force finchems hand to give these types of guys a few more sponsor invites to avoid having to go through the nationwide route?
McLaren- Posts : 17620
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
i think Ernie would have gotten an invite already if he was going to get one. just speculating though!
i really fancy him to be in contention this week though. hes 41/1 on betfair!
sean o hair is 70/1
i really fancy him to be in contention this week though. hes 41/1 on betfair!
sean o hair is 70/1
hend085- Posts : 1001
Join date : 2011-06-17
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Mac i can think of quite a few players in the masters field that he deserves to be there ahead of and if he was in the masters field he would probably be in the top 20 players in with a chance to win.
with regard to putting, yes he has struggled in recent months and he did miss a short one last week, but he was ranked 11th in the field in putts per GIR last week so dont go too overboard.
hes currently 150/1 to win the masters..... not quite big enough odds yet but i am a bit tempted.
with regard to putting, yes he has struggled in recent months and he did miss a short one last week, but he was ranked 11th in the field in putts per GIR last week so dont go too overboard.
hes currently 150/1 to win the masters..... not quite big enough odds yet but i am a bit tempted.
hend085- Posts : 1001
Join date : 2011-06-17
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
"Mac i can think of quite a few players in the masters field that he deserves to be there ahead of"
Hend, could you please name them?
Hend, could you please name them?
McLaren- Posts : 17620
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Anyone else hear arnies press conference? Seems he has thrown the toys out the pram over luke and rory being no shows.
McLaren- Posts : 17620
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
His tournament is a joke anyway. Well done Rory akd Luke for not bothering.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Stavanger, Norway
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Hi Scottie,
I think you're right. The top Europeans will earn enough at Majors and WGC's to join the PGA Tour anytime they want, the next level down would have to go through, essentially, a one-year apprenticeship with no assurance they would "graduate" at the end of it.
Finchem talks about the number of Aussies who embrace the Nationwide, but they don't have a home Tour to play. As Finchem well knows.
I still think the Nationwide route will be attractive to some young Europeans, especially those who attended US Colleges; the Lairds, Knoxes, Blixts, Lingmerths, but the number cometing in Q-School has declined in recent years, the quality of them has declined even further.
Don't think there's a cat in Hell's chance for Ernie to get a Masters invite.
Mac,
You may be right about the College guys but there are really very few who are known well enough to attract sponsors exemptions. Bud Cauley did great last year, but it was really all on the back of qualifying for the US Open and playing well there. Patrick Cantlay also.
I don't think Finchem has got that quite right, but he's lowered the bar such that one good PGA Tour outing will secure a top 200 place and admission to the 3-tournament "play off".
Why would Palmer sound off at Luke and Rory? He should be venting his spleen, if he still has one, at T.Finchem and the morons who compile the WGC schedule. Don't hear the PGA complaining that Stricker and Mickelson won't play Wentworth. Shut up Arnie, Sam Saunders still loves you.
I think you're right. The top Europeans will earn enough at Majors and WGC's to join the PGA Tour anytime they want, the next level down would have to go through, essentially, a one-year apprenticeship with no assurance they would "graduate" at the end of it.
Finchem talks about the number of Aussies who embrace the Nationwide, but they don't have a home Tour to play. As Finchem well knows.
I still think the Nationwide route will be attractive to some young Europeans, especially those who attended US Colleges; the Lairds, Knoxes, Blixts, Lingmerths, but the number cometing in Q-School has declined in recent years, the quality of them has declined even further.
Don't think there's a cat in Hell's chance for Ernie to get a Masters invite.
Mac,
You may be right about the College guys but there are really very few who are known well enough to attract sponsors exemptions. Bud Cauley did great last year, but it was really all on the back of qualifying for the US Open and playing well there. Patrick Cantlay also.
I don't think Finchem has got that quite right, but he's lowered the bar such that one good PGA Tour outing will secure a top 200 place and admission to the 3-tournament "play off".
Why would Palmer sound off at Luke and Rory? He should be venting his spleen, if he still has one, at T.Finchem and the morons who compile the WGC schedule. Don't hear the PGA complaining that Stricker and Mickelson won't play Wentworth. Shut up Arnie, Sam Saunders still loves you.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
I guess in the bubble that is Arnies world he still thinks he is a big thing in golf and therefore a tournament carrying his name should be a premier event on tour, with the world’s best golfers. Sadly he has probably missed the fact that america’s best are no longer the worlds best.
McLaren- Posts : 17620
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Well, he's just an 82-year old after all, or is he just that... It should be really up to those at the top of the PGAT pile to change something if/when something has to be changed, but I guess the question there is, can they...? Seems to me that inspite of his age, Arnie still pulls a pretty influential punch when it comes to things like golf TV (ie Golf Channel), etc... Personally I would certainly like to see and expect more wisdom rather than influence from an 82-year old...kwinigolfer wrote:...He should be venting his spleen, if he still has one, at T.Finchem and the morons who compile the WGC schedule.
princedracula- Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Only a few minutes before the day's first tee shot.
Should be a warm one, perhaps matching our mid-80's! A bit breezy, with an increasing chance of thundershowers as the weekend progresses.
Should be a warm one, perhaps matching our mid-80's! A bit breezy, with an increasing chance of thundershowers as the weekend progresses.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Do we even know arnie has any wisdom worth sharing?
Does anyone remember the debate about arnie on the old 606?
Does anyone remember the debate about arnie on the old 606?
McLaren- Posts : 17620
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Yeah Mac, I was criticised by someone for saying he was scheduled to die soon and that he was a coffin dodger.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
s_r,
That was probably me!
That was probably me!
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Thing is though, he is a coffin dodger, like it or not.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
s_r, We all are.
A friend of mine died skiing this past weekend - you just never know.
A friend of mine died skiing this past weekend - you just never know.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
If I'm lucky enough to get to 82, I'll be delighted to be called a coffin dodger.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Arnie's certainly entitled to his opinion and you can be sure the Golf Channel he helped found will carry his every utterance, without a critical word.
And good for the World's best -- or any professional golfer -- doing what they think is best for their career.
One of these days the World's best may skip Augusta -- frankly, something I would enjoy watching unfold.
Wide open this weekend, would not be at all surprised it Tiger won, or just about anyone else for that matter!
And good for the World's best -- or any professional golfer -- doing what they think is best for their career.
One of these days the World's best may skip Augusta -- frankly, something I would enjoy watching unfold.
Wide open this weekend, would not be at all surprised it Tiger won, or just about anyone else for that matter!
Shotrock- Posts : 3923
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
"One of these days the World's best may skip Augusta -- frankly, something I would enjoy watching unfold."
I have to say I agree, and the starting point for this to unfold would probably be a number of exposes on those that are members and fund the place.
I set out why I thought the masters was flawed way back on old 606, might have to dig that up later.
Another point I think I may have raised was the destruction of the course over years in terms of how it was meant to play. This may have been improved in recent years but still a long way to go.
Although recently I am beginning to think a major with all the top 50 but no players ranked 50+ is the way to go.
My reasoning being that a major win should be the culmination of a prolonged period of good play. If a player is in the top 50 they have proved that they can perform as one of the worlds best on a regular basis. Think of it in terms of a science experiment where you need to get repeat results to prove your conclusions are not that of chance.
By removing those yet to provide the evidence they are currently one of the worlds best you lower the probability of a “fluke” winner.
If the masters (or any other major) moved towards a more restricted field, I for one would be a supporter.
I have to say I agree, and the starting point for this to unfold would probably be a number of exposes on those that are members and fund the place.
I set out why I thought the masters was flawed way back on old 606, might have to dig that up later.
Another point I think I may have raised was the destruction of the course over years in terms of how it was meant to play. This may have been improved in recent years but still a long way to go.
Although recently I am beginning to think a major with all the top 50 but no players ranked 50+ is the way to go.
My reasoning being that a major win should be the culmination of a prolonged period of good play. If a player is in the top 50 they have proved that they can perform as one of the worlds best on a regular basis. Think of it in terms of a science experiment where you need to get repeat results to prove your conclusions are not that of chance.
By removing those yet to provide the evidence they are currently one of the worlds best you lower the probability of a “fluke” winner.
If the masters (or any other major) moved towards a more restricted field, I for one would be a supporter.
McLaren- Posts : 17620
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
kwini,
I'm sure you are right, but why don't you fancy Ernie's chances of an invite. "Is it cause I'm not US" paraphrasing Lewis Hamilton?
I can see why they invite guys that can promote the event in Assia and I don't have a problem giving some preference to young US players on the way up and of course we have enough old guys already in the field, but in Ernie's case he showed only last week he still has the game.
Has he done something to upset Augusta that I missed.
I'm sure you are right, but why don't you fancy Ernie's chances of an invite. "Is it cause I'm not US" paraphrasing Lewis Hamilton?
I can see why they invite guys that can promote the event in Assia and I don't have a problem giving some preference to young US players on the way up and of course we have enough old guys already in the field, but in Ernie's case he showed only last week he still has the game.
Has he done something to upset Augusta that I missed.
ScottieD18- Posts : 375
Join date : 2011-05-30
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
McLaren,
I'd agree with top 50 only if we were starting the Majors now, but given the history and tradition we can't change it.
A Major is a bit like the FA Cup. Almost always one of a few will win, but everyone has a chance and its great to watch an outsider fighting the nerves on the final day and every now and again an outside wins a Major (Note that there are probably fewer outsiders winning if viewed from the end of their career rather than when they won).
I don't know the details behind Augusta, but most of the courses on the Open rota are elitist to say the least.
I'd agree with top 50 only if we were starting the Majors now, but given the history and tradition we can't change it.
A Major is a bit like the FA Cup. Almost always one of a few will win, but everyone has a chance and its great to watch an outsider fighting the nerves on the final day and every now and again an outside wins a Major (Note that there are probably fewer outsiders winning if viewed from the end of their career rather than when they won).
I don't know the details behind Augusta, but most of the courses on the Open rota are elitist to say the least.
ScottieD18- Posts : 375
Join date : 2011-05-30
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
On second thoughts top 50 is a little arbitrary so I would only invite players to majors who are within a certain percentage of the world number one. A little like the 107% rule in f1.
McLaren- Posts : 17620
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
A major is not very like an FA Cup, very often a complete random wins. There are hardly any players with more than one major to their names in the game today, and very few players in history who have won more than one.
It's who plays best on the 4 days, not who is in the best form for the time of year or who is consistently better than the rest of the field.
If it was, Donald would have won every major last year.
Agree that the Open rota stinks though, some dreadful courses in there.
It's who plays best on the 4 days, not who is in the best form for the time of year or who is consistently better than the rest of the field.
If it was, Donald would have won every major last year.
Agree that the Open rota stinks though, some dreadful courses in there.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Scottie,
Re Ernie.
I feel that if they were going to invite him they'd've done it a month ago when they gave Ishikawa his customary (well, second) free pass. Nothing to do with being worthy, and nothing to do with being non-American.
Just that Augusta National seem to have made it clear this past decade they're not interested in respecting current players who have achieved much in the game, and not interested in young players period (see Matteo as Exhibit A). Unless they're Asian with the access to commercial opportunities that Far Eastern markets provide to line Augusta National's coffers.
A good reason in my opinion why Mac is right and Augusta National's divine right to hold a Major should be challenged.
Re Ernie.
I feel that if they were going to invite him they'd've done it a month ago when they gave Ishikawa his customary (well, second) free pass. Nothing to do with being worthy, and nothing to do with being non-American.
Just that Augusta National seem to have made it clear this past decade they're not interested in respecting current players who have achieved much in the game, and not interested in young players period (see Matteo as Exhibit A). Unless they're Asian with the access to commercial opportunities that Far Eastern markets provide to line Augusta National's coffers.
A good reason in my opinion why Mac is right and Augusta National's divine right to hold a Major should be challenged.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Augusta a story unto itself. Very rich men (for the most part) running their course and invitational tournament as they wish. I know two members -- don't know them well, however. Also know a number of people who've played there and, from the member's tees and when they don't have the greens running at silly speeds, say it's quite a sporty course.
I'm only about the 1 millionth person to say this ... but when you see the course in person, you'll probably be alarmed at the real elevation changes and just how well kept the place is.
If the distances keep increasing in the game, look for them to issue a tournament ball one of these days.
I'm only about the 1 millionth person to say this ... but when you see the course in person, you'll probably be alarmed at the real elevation changes and just how well kept the place is.
If the distances keep increasing in the game, look for them to issue a tournament ball one of these days.
Shotrock- Posts : 3923
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Location : Philadelphia
Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Ah, I get it now. A "those that have loads shall be given the opportunity to have more" kind of thing eh? Hopefully, that never happens. If there's a qualifying process and you make it in, that should be the end of it. If you then win, so much the better.McLaren wrote:On second thoughts top 50 is a little arbitrary so I would only invite players to majors who are within a certain percentage of the world number one. A little like the 107% rule in f1.
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Why are people so charmed by chance?
Shotrock
I hope the R&A get some balls long before anyone needs to introduce a tournament ball.
Shotrock
I hope the R&A get some balls long before anyone needs to introduce a tournament ball.
McLaren- Posts : 17620
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
What's chance got to do with anything?
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Mac, for the milllionth time there is nothing wrong with the ball, as you always say score to par is irrelevant so what difference does a ball make? Whoever plays best wins. It can be a long or a short hitter on any course.
Perhaps you suggest F1 going back to steel radials or crossply tyres, or hobnail boots and gardening gloves for football?
Perhaps you suggest F1 going back to steel radials or crossply tyres, or hobnail boots and gardening gloves for football?
super_realist- Posts : 29053
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
There would be clear qualification criteria; Ensure you are within the prescribed percentage of the world number 1 for the OWGR period the week before a major. How much clearer do you need it? You play well, you become one of the best and you get in.
There is a chance a player who is not one of the current best in the world could win a major. That is chance, if only those who have a record of repeated good results qualify you are sure that the tournament will not be won by a player who is the best by chance on a given week.
There is a chance a player who is not one of the current best in the world could win a major. That is chance, if only those who have a record of repeated good results qualify you are sure that the tournament will not be won by a player who is the best by chance on a given week.
McLaren- Posts : 17620
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
McLaren wrote:Why are people so charmed by chance?
because predictable is boring?
Lairdy- Posts : 794
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
McLaren wrote:"Mac i can think of quite a few players in the masters field that he deserves to be there ahead of"
Hend, could you please name them?
Lyle
Mize
Woosnam
Stadler
Chappell
Ishikawa
Lewis
Steele
Stallings
Matsuyama
Cantley
Stenson
Crenshaw
Clark
and theres probably more
hend085- Posts : 1001
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
S_R - I understand your point. No need to get wrapped up in a "par" number. Lord knows, the USGA seems obsessed with this.
But, if a course is designed with hazards that challenge a tee or approach shot, a longer balls makes many of those hazards for the top professional irrelevant. Rest assured that the green jackets want their white sand bunkers and other hazards to be relevant in their invitational tournament.
But, if a course is designed with hazards that challenge a tee or approach shot, a longer balls makes many of those hazards for the top professional irrelevant. Rest assured that the green jackets want their white sand bunkers and other hazards to be relevant in their invitational tournament.
Shotrock- Posts : 3923
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
So someone who won the Masters 30 years ago deserves to play? I would have thought for credibility you have players there on merit, not history.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
There is a difference between predictable and correct.
Super
Shotrock makes some great points about why they need to change the ball. There comes a point when the ball totally changes the character of the game. I think we have passed that point and it has not been an improvement.
Super
Shotrock makes some great points about why they need to change the ball. There comes a point when the ball totally changes the character of the game. I think we have passed that point and it has not been an improvement.
McLaren- Posts : 17620
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
SR, majors are won by similar scores now then they were in the days of the older balata or 1.62 ball. People still get in trouble, people still make bad shots, decisions and have temperaments that let them down.
Don't really see the issue with the ball.
Don't really see the issue with the ball.
super_realist- Posts : 29053
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
No, it's not chance; it's playing well over a qualifying tournament (if required) and then playing the best over four rounds on a tough course against the best the game has to offer. Chance is hitting the flag on the full and the ball ending in the hole (and even that's not really chance...).McLaren wrote:There would be clear qualification criteria; Ensure you are within the prescribed percentage of the world number 1 for the OWGR period the week before a major. How much clearer do you need it? You play well, you become one of the best and you get in.
There is a chance a player who is not one of the current best in the world could win a major. That is chance, if only those who have a record of repeated good results qualify you are sure that the tournament will not be won by a player who is the best by chance on a given week.
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Byron Nelson always used to say that the most important technological advance over his lifetime in Golf has been (refinements in ) the lawnmower.
As for the ball, I would say the clubs are just as much to blame, perhaps more so, than the ball for the perception of golfcourses becoming outdated.
As for the ball, I would say the clubs are just as much to blame, perhaps more so, than the ball for the perception of golfcourses becoming outdated.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: PGA Tour: Arnold Palmer invites-who-the-hell-he-likes Invitational: Notes from the Ballwasher
Super - I can assure you Augusta wants the right hand bunker on #1 to come into play on the tee shot. Again, I get your point about final scoring, but the boys will be smiling through gritted teeth when utility clubs become the tee club of choice off too many holes. They were steaming a few years ago when Tiger declared #13 a driver, 8-iron hole.
Shotrock- Posts : 3923
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