Ulster squad additions

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All things relating to Ulster squad changes

Henderson I think will end up in the second row. As for Birch, I really can't wait to see more from him. Seems very abrasive, likes to get stuck in. Isn't afraid to carry into traffic, and likes to follow the ball and throw himself about the place. Exciting stuff.

There was a horrible rumour on Uafc that nick Williams was the back rower. I hope to god it was a pisstake but I didn't check back. I would seriously weep if that was the case.

So, I was at a thing last night with Muller and Marshall at Portstewart Baptist. Both total gents!

Info of relevance here... Paul Marshall was considering leaving a few months back. But Ultimatly, the players don't see it as a coincidence that theres so many christians in the squad. Those who believe in a divinity, have a belief that they are there for a reason. Those that don't have any belief are clearly also happy that there is a belief in the side, and feed off the sense of purpose.

Surprised to hear paul thinking of leaving. IMO he isnt good enough to continually start for a top team.

Bloody iPad is a nightmare to type with

Marshall was considering leaving ???

Something does add up for 2 reasons.

1 he is contracted for next year and would not have been allowed
2 he is one of the players who has stated that it was Ulster or nobody

Regarding new players

the out half will be 3rd choice - so set your sights accordingly. He will be IQ we have no choice. Pretty certain who is in the frame.

As to the backrower that is far more speculative. I think, beside Wannenberg leaving, 2 players have put a spanner in the works.
One in a good way and one in a bad way.
In a bad way is Barker who has gone awol and therefore left us one down in the 2nd row.
In a good way is Henderson who is seriously seriously impressing the 1st team forwards. He has made a big impact on the likes of Muller, Best, Stevenson etc - they rate him highly. Now can he cover both 2nd row and 6-if so gives us a few more option.

I suspect we will go with the 2nd row as is but means a big decision next year with Muller's contract finishing.

So still a backrower on the way.

I would be surprised if the IQ 10 is not named this week
I would be surprised if the NIQ backrower is named this week.

geoff998rugby wrote:Marshall was considering leaving ???

Something does add up for 2 reasons.

1 he is contracted for next year and would not have been allowed
2 he is one of the players who has stated that it was Ulster or nobody

To clarify, I suspect he was saying he was considering his future options. Not that he was actually looking a way out, especially not at that time. He was simply saying there was a time when he was questioning if he might at some point want to experience something else.

There was 1000 people besides me who heard him say it!

That makes more sense.

I suspect the alternative would be non rugby related which I can well believe.
An intelligent young man who doesn't believe sport is the be all and end of all of life. A proper sense of perspective

When does Mullers contract finish Geoff? Any chance of getting a him to stay another season?

I really like the look of Henderson and think we should forget about another NIQ backrower and show faith in Him and Birch. They look ready but need gametime.

We are really poor at bringing our youngters through compared to the other provinces and we are going to pay the price in a few seasons if something doesn't change.

Take Muller, Ferris, Best and Pienaar out of the side and there is a huge drop off in quality and experience, in fact we'd struggle to stay above Connacht in the league imo.

I really hope things change under Anscombe because our lack of depth was badly exposed at the weekend.

He spoke really poignantly about the wake up call from the death of the Armagh schools cup captain 10 days after they beat his side in the Schools Cup. He said he was so self-focussed, success hungry, and angry and jealous after the loss. The news of John McCalls death was a major turning point in his character and attitude to life.

Muller's contract is up next summer - I think we will try and get another year.

One of reasons Anscombe has been appointed is to bring the kids on, that is one of his strengths. Your concern is a valid one, but moves are being made to give the kids a lot more game time next year.

The NIQ backrower is a more an International call up/injury cover decision.
We would prefer an IQ backrower but as we know none of the southerners will come north.

If Henry, Wilson, Ferris were all call up or injured our backrow would be
Henderson, Diack, Birch sub: McCormish

That is too close to the bare bones - we need more cover

Standulstermen wrote:There was a horrible rumour on Uafc that nick Williams was the back rower. I hope to god it was a pisstake but I didn't check back. I would seriously weep if that was the case.

I know... talk about a disaster. And completely contrary to our recruitment policy.

Brian McLaughlin describes our approach to NIQ players thus;

The next year when David (Humphreys) and I sat down we agreed that over the years Ulster had been guilty of bringing in foreign players who were just foreign players, and that if we were going to bring in anybody they had to be better than what we had. And they had to be prepared to opt into everything Ulster was, and wanted. And they also had to be in a position where they weren't just coming to play rugby, they had to be a part of the whole thing, to leave their legacy. They had to build and show what was required from our youngsters, our Academy players.

Does Nick Williams fulfil those criteria? I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping Ulster deliver someone considerably better who will help drive us towards the top of European rugby.

IMO, Henderson should be considered the replacement for Muller after the end of next season. I think he will ultimately end up in the second row. The provinces have an abundance of backrow talent (especially at 6). I also see the Ulster stats for him are wrong (yet again). They say he is 6 foot 5 and 21 years old. He is at least 6 foot 6 and barely 20.

He looked well under 6'6 at the weekend Rory and Ulster certainly don't have an abundance of blindside flankers.

He may well have been a 2nd row at underage levels but with his obvious pace and athleticism he'd be wasted there imo.

He looked uncannily like Ferris at the weekend and much more dynamic than the likes of Rhys Ruddock. Ulster look to have a gem on their hands.

rodders wrote:He looked well under 6'6 at the weekend Rory and Ulster certainly don't have an abundance of blindside flankers.

He may well have been a 2nd row at underage levels but with his obvious pace and athleticism he'd be wasted there imo.

He looked uncannily like Ferris at the weekend and much more dynamic than the likes of Rhys Ruddock. Ulster look to have a gem on their hands.

I played rugby with him and went to the same school as him mate he is 6 foot 6. They were all officially weighed/measured for the schools cup final as well, and he was 16 and a half stone, 6 foot 6 at the time. He was taller looking than Tuohy yesterday who is 6 foot 5. As for having too much athleticism for second row, would you say the same for the likes of Richie Gray? You have to have a lot of mobility to play second row in the modern game. In fact with POC/DOC, our locks have been TOO immobile to keep up.

Maybe he's shrunk Rory....

I would say Ritchie Gray doesn't have the skills to play in the backrow but Henderson does.

rodders wrote:Maybe he's shrunk Rory....

I would say Ritchie Gray doesn't have the skills to play in the backrow but Henderson does.

Oh aye, rodders, that's what Kearney used to say!!

Gray looks like a second row...Henderson looks like a backrower......gees some people are sooooooo touchy.......

From an Irish perspective we should be focusing Henderson on the 2nd row. There are few enough options coming through here. Thats not to say we cant use him a 6 bu muller isn't getting younger and Deccie will hopefully wake up and notice Tuohy. The promise is there so we should be a lot quicker to rotate in the 2nd row.

I think there are quite few options at 2nd row stand but I can't think of many backrowers we have beyond Ferris, SOB or maybe POM who could have scored that try at the weekend.

I'm not saying he can't be used in the second row as well but with that pace and athleticism he looks the part on the blindside.

He will play second row but a season at blindside whilst he gets accustomed to professional rugby won't hurt his development, don't worry.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

rodders wrote:He looked well under 6'6 at the weekend Rory and Ulster certainly don't have an abundance of blindside flankers.

He may well have been a 2nd row at underage levels but with his obvious pace and athleticism he'd be wasted there imo.

He looked uncannily like Ferris at the weekend and much more dynamic than the likes of Rhys Ruddock. Ulster look to have a gem on their hands.

I played rugby with him and went to the same school as him mate he is 6 foot 6. They were all officially weighed/measured for the schools cup final as well, and he was 16 and a half stone, 6 foot 6 at the time. He was taller looking than Tuohy yesterday who is 6 foot 5. As for having too much athleticism for second row, would you say the same for the likes of Richie Gray? You have to have a lot of mobility to play second row in the modern game. In fact with POC/DOC, our locks have been TOO immobile to keep up.

Back in the day, DOC used to be incredbily mobile, he is still decent but not as good. Our pack being mobile was a huge advantage in the Eddie days. I think Henderson would do a good job in the second row. You need everyone in the pack to be mobile and getting to pretty much every ruck in the modern era. From grassroots to the top level.

rodders wrote:I think there are quite few options at 2nd row stand but I can't think of many backrowers we have beyond Ferris, SOB or maybe POM who could have scored that try at the weekend.

I'm not saying he can't be used in the second row as well but with that pace and athleticism he looks the part on the blindside.

Really rodders? You think there are more options for Ireland at 2nd row than at back row??

Thomond wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

rodders wrote:He looked well under 6'6 at the weekend Rory and Ulster certainly don't have an abundance of blindside flankers.

He may well have been a 2nd row at underage levels but with his obvious pace and athleticism he'd be wasted there imo.

He looked uncannily like Ferris at the weekend and much more dynamic than the likes of Rhys Ruddock. Ulster look to have a gem on their hands.

I played rugby with him and went to the same school as him mate he is 6 foot 6. They were all officially weighed/measured for the schools cup final as well, and he was 16 and a half stone, 6 foot 6 at the time. He was taller looking than Tuohy yesterday who is 6 foot 5. As for having too much athleticism for second row, would you say the same for the likes of Richie Gray? You have to have a lot of mobility to play second row in the modern game. In fact with POC/DOC, our locks have been TOO immobile to keep up.

Back in the day, DOC used to be incredbily mobile, he is still decent but not as good. Our pack being mobile was a huge advantage in the Eddie days. I think Henderson would do a good job in the second row. You need everyone in the pack to be mobile and getting to pretty much every ruck in the modern era. From grassroots to the top level.

I meant recently Thomond, sorry should have made that more clear.

Who are the young options at 2nd row? Toner isn't going places fast and he is 25. Tuohy is already 26, Ryan 28. Nagle isnt getting much if any gametime and is 23/24. I haven't seen any lock at u20 level in the last few years to come close to Henderson.

There are countless options for Ireland in the backrow coming up through the ranks. Especially at 6.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

rodders wrote:I think there are quite few options at 2nd row stand but I can't think of many backrowers we have beyond Ferris, SOB or maybe POM who could have scored that try at the weekend.

I'm not saying he can't be used in the second row as well but with that pace and athleticism he looks the part on the blindside.

Really rodders? You think there are more options for Ireland at 2nd row than at back row??

Yes.

I think O'Connell, O'Callaghan and Cullen have at least 1 more season in them at the top level.

Then you have Tuohy coming through who can push O'Connell and O'Callaghan for the TH lock spot and Donnacha Ryan and Devin Toner who can play on the loosehead side of the scrum.

Stephen Ferris is struggling with his knee, Heaslip isn't as good as he was, Wallace is retired possibly followed by Leamy.

There are a number of very good backrowers around but not that many good ball carriers beyond SOB and POM.

I agree in the 2nd row other than Ryan and Tuohy who are the under 30 options.

Toner and Stevenson I reckon.
Need to be convinced re Nagle and can't think of anyone else who comes close.

I agree far more options in the backrow at Munster and Leinster just not at Ulster

Henderson will not get within an arrses roar of an Ireland squad in the next year rodders. There are far more options at backrow than 2nd row for Ireland. You named three guys under 30. That is not depth!

Haven't you guys heard.........30 is the new 20......

Rodders, the same argument about struggling with fitness and form could easily be made for O'Connell, O'Callaghan and Cullen. They aren't going to be options for much longer, but Ferris and Heaslip will be. After those three guys go, Ryan, Tuohy and Toner are the only options we really have. Nagle? Not sure if he has got it. Henderson would be a massive prospect there, if he can develop properly then we look much stronger in the second row.

After Ferris, O'Brien and O'Mahony (all class players) we have McLaughlin who has been impressive this season, Dominic Ryan who is a great prospect, Ruddock, O'Callaghan, Henry, Donnacha Ryan at back row etc. I am just listing the possible 6s as well, not 7s or 8s. That is just one position where we have more options than both second rows put together.

Rory I am simply suggesting that Henderson looks a natural backrower and that Ulster would do well to utilise him there next season.

Ferris will be used sparingly and we will miss Pedrie's ball carrying.

I don't know what the long term solution is for Irelands 2nd row. In terms of calling the lineout and leadership O'Connell will be very hard to replace but with the options I mentioned above I think we are ok for the next 3 or 4 seasons.

In terms of Ulster Henderson does not look like a successor to Muller imo but an alternative to Tuohy.

Nice piece in the Telly about BM.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/ulster-supremo-mclaughlin-ready-for-biggest-day-of-his-career-16155082.html

It official Barker is giving up the professional game and playing for Rainey OB's next year

Standulstermen wrote:Who are the young options at 2nd row? Toner isn't going places fast and he is 25. Tuohy is already 26, Ryan 28. Nagle isnt getting much if any gametime and is 23/24. I haven't seen any lock at u20 level in the last few years to come close to Henderson.

Toner has played really well for us this year...

geoff999rugby wrote:It official Barker is giving up the professional game and playing for Rainey OB's next year

he keeps appearing on our "injured" list. Cited as having back trouble.

Is that "back" to training trouble?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Who are the young options at 2nd row? Toner isn't going places fast and he is 25. Tuohy is already 26, Ryan 28. Nagle isnt getting much if any gametime and is 23/24. I haven't seen any lock at u20 level in the last few years to come close to Henderson.

Toner has played really well for us this year...

Toner is a curates egg of a player, but he really suits the Leinster gameplan. I'm not sure how he'll fare consistently in test rugby where the emphasis is more on physicality and less on offloading play- not that international forwards shouldn't offload the ball, just that under Kidney its rare enough to see the backs and backrow offloading never mind the tight five

Does anyone else take objection to this line in Hugh Farrellys piece on McLaughlin;

McLaughlin is of classic Ulster rugby stock: pragmatic, passionate and prod.

I would like to think Mr Farrelly isn't stereotyping everyone who plays the game up here...

Am I being oversensitive? I know it's true to a great extent in many parts of the country but thats slowly changing.... It's annoying to see that printed in the most popular newspaper in NI given the efforts necessary to portray Ulster Rugby as a unifying team everyone can get behind

Then again, we are a quick people to take offence us Ulstermen (and wimmin)

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Who are the young options at 2nd row? Toner isn't going places fast and he is 25. Tuohy is already 26, Ryan 28. Nagle isnt getting much if any gametime and is 23/24. I haven't seen any lock at u20 level in the last few years to come close to Henderson.

Toner has played really well for us this year...

Toner is a curates egg of a player, but he really suits the Leinster gameplan. I'm not sure how he'll fare consistently in test rugby where the emphasis is more on physicality and less on offloading play- not that international forwards shouldn't offload the ball, just that under Kidney its rare enough to see the backs and backrow offloading never mind the tight five

you will never know until he actually gets the chance to play for ireland

Looks more like a spelling mistake. I think it is meant to say "proud".

Notch wrote:Does anyone else take objection to this line in Hugh Farrellys piece on McLaughlin;

McLaughlin is of classic Ulster rugby stock: pragmatic, passionate and prod.

I would like to think Mr Farrelly isn't stereotyping everyone who plays the game up here...

Am I being oversensitive? I know it's true to a great extent in many parts of the country but thats slowly changing.... It's annoying to see that printed in the most popular newspaper in NI given the efforts necessary to portray Ulster Rugby as a unifying team everyone can get behind

Then again, we are a quick people to take offence us Ulstermen (and wimmin)

I'm not at all offended by it but it was probably an un-necessary and unhelpful inclusion.

I think he just likes illiteration.

Notch wrote:Does anyone else take objection to this line in Hugh Farrellys piece on McLaughlin;

McLaughlin is of classic Ulster rugby stock: pragmatic, passionate and prod.

I would like to think Mr Farrelly isn't stereotyping everyone who plays the game up here...

Am I being oversensitive? I know it's true to a great extent in many parts of the country but thats slowly changing.... It's annoying to see that printed in the most popular newspaper in NI given the efforts necessary to portray Ulster Rugby as a unifying team everyone can get behind

Then again, we are a quick people to take offence us Ulstermen (and wimmin)

Scandalous typo!

The man is a misinformed imbecile. Prod is lazy journalism. They are a rubgy Presbyterian Cult.

Everyone knows that. Sheesh.

Up the UPC!

Notch wrote:Does anyone else take objection to this line in Hugh Farrellys piece on McLaughlin;

McLaughlin is of classic Ulster rugby stock: pragmatic, passionate and prod.

I would like to think Mr Farrelly isn't stereotyping everyone who plays the game up here...

Am I being oversensitive? I know it's true to a great extent in many parts of the country but thats slowly changing.... It's annoying to see that printed in the most popular newspaper in NI given the efforts necessary to portray Ulster Rugby as a unifying team everyone can get behind

Then again, we are a quick people to take offence us Ulstermen (and wimmin)

You missed this direct quote from in the article from Brian McL.

..... Saturday was probably the biggest day of my rugby life. And the other one was that Triple Crown win over England in Croker. And that's an Ulster prod saying Croker!"

Heard a rumour our NIQ player is Nick Williams formerly of Munster now at Aironi, scored a try for them at the weekend there.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Who are the young options at 2nd row? Toner isn't going places fast and he is 25. Tuohy is already 26, Ryan 28. Nagle isnt getting much if any gametime and is 23/24. I haven't seen any lock at u20 level in the last few years to come close to Henderson.

Toner has played really well for us this year...

Toner is a curates egg of a player, but he really suits the Leinster gameplan. I'm not sure how he'll fare consistently in test rugby where the emphasis is more on physicality and less on offloading play- not that international forwards shouldn't offload the ball, just that under Kidney its rare enough to see the backs and backrow offloading never mind the tight five

you will never know until he actually gets the chance to play for ireland

Well you can make an educated guess, but yeah I'd like to see him get a chance- albeit I think Ryan, Tuohy and McCarthy are ahead of him in the pecking order.

Sin é wrote:

You missed this direct quote from in the article from Brian McL.

..... Saturday was probably the biggest day of my rugby life. And the other one was that Triple Crown win over England in Croker. And that's an Ulster prod saying Croker!"

Actually I didn't, it's just not relevant to my point at all. I swear if there was a medal for missed points on this board...

It's not about McLaughlin or his background; although his contribution and the contribution of other Ulster born players and coaches to rugby as an all-Ireland sport over the years is something to be celebrated given the history of division and sectarianism on this island. My point was about the stereotyping of rugby in ulster as a Protestant pursuit. I appreciate it still is in many ways, but its something thats changing. When Sinn Fein ministers are happy to jump aboard the Ulster Rugby bandwagon and rugby clubs are being founded in the Donegal Gaeltacht you know we're beginning to move away from that. I feel it's not offensive or a big deal, I just feel it's disappointing to see a journalist trot out a stereotype like that when it's becoming increasingly less relevant.

When Sinn Fein ministers are happy to jump aboard the Ulster Rugby bandwagon and rugby clubs are being founded in the Donegal Gaeltacht you know we're beginning to move away from that. I feel it's not offensive or a big deal, I just feel it's disappointing to see a journalist trot out a stereotype like that when it's becoming increasingly less relevant.

Hang on a second, Brian McLaughlin is saying that his 2nd best day in Irish rugby was winning a rugby match in Croke Park. I'd say that comment would be appreciated by many from GAA backgrounds in the entire province of Ulster.

I think its a good sign that he is so publicly relaxed making a comment like that.

Yeah, I 100% agree. It perfectly illustrates the magic of Ireland rugby. It still has nothing to do with my point though.

Notch wrote:Yeah, I 100% agree. It perfectly illustrates the magic of Ireland rugby. It still has nothing to do with my point though.

You were moaning that Farrelly was stereotyping McLaughlin & Ulster rugby as being a protestant sport in Ulster. Well, facts are that it is. It maybe changing. No point pretending that it has just yet, though and surely its better to be honest about it rather than pretending otherwise.