Liverpool F.C - nothing but a name...

First topic message reminder :

...and this is coming from a Liverpool fan.

Liverpool 1 Wigan Athletic 2.

Lets be honest here whilst this result was somewhat of a surprise it was in no way a shock. Bar the victories over Newcastle and Everton we have been pathetic at home. Uninspiring, insipid and laboured. For you younger posters on these boards Anfield was once something of a fortress. Not any more.

It's over 20 years since we won a league title and bar a couple of second place finishes we have never even really contested. The term 'also-rans' springs to mind. I don't buy into all this poppycock about winning the Carling Cup being the indicator of a successful season. Utter claptrap. Fans of the top, top teams pour scorn over the League Cup and label it Micky Mouse and so they should. Their sides have bigger fish to fry. The Carling Cup final is a day out at Wembley and nothing more...unless you are a mid table PL club or a Championship side.

I have undeniable respect and admiration for Kenny Dalglish as a man and a former player but he's showing he's just not up to the job. I was all for him stepping in for the remainder of last season after Roy Hodgson's sacking last winter but had my reservations over him taking the post permanently. Of course he could turn all of this around and make us the force we once was. Perhaps he deserves the benefit of the doubt?

You could say in Kenny's defence that you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. The squad, quality wise, is a million miles away from even challenging the top four. Money has been made available and it's been by and large wasted. 35 million quid for Andy Carroll. We'd do well to get a third of that back when he's finally offloaded. What did Stuart Downing cost? 20 million? Is it any wonder managers look abroad for top class footballers when they come at a snippet of the price?

So here we are. We could go on to win the F.A cup and suddenly everything looks rosy in the garden again. I'd take numerous early domestic cup exits to see us competing for the title and playing Champions League football season after season. But the fact remains that we are no nearer the cream than we were when Graeme Souness was running us into the ground. I wonder if Julian Dicks would get into the current side?

So am I being the ultimate pessimist or just calling it as it actually is?

Liverpool Football Club. Always a big name and once a great team.

Cheers guys.

Fair point.

How on earth is winning a trophy, or wanting to, considered glory hunting ? Football isn't an exhibition, its a competitive sport.
Plus if anyone thinks that the managers, chairmen and coaching staff and players at any club have an agenda to go out and merely look good they are severly deluded. Its a results driven industry, they all want to win.

Of course you want to win, but me as a supporter of a club like Norwich know we ain't going to win any trophies yet so we like to see good entertaining football. That's why it must suck to be a Stoke fan

But its all a myth that particular clubs set out to entertain. They might have a period when they do that, though of course that style just happens to be the way they think they will get the best results, just like Stoke adopt a style to get good results.
Stoke have had sides in the past that play "good" football for want of a btter word and Nowrich have had sides that play dull football.
I get sick of hearing Newcastle fans and West Ham fans bleat on about how its all about the entertainment, as if they play like Brazil season in and season out.

Ask a Spurs fan on the last day of the season if he'd prefer to see his side to play breathtaking football but finish 5th, or scrape a 1-0 win and get 4th.
I'd be surprised if many said the former.

Diggers wrote:But its all a myth that particular clubs set out to entertain. They might have a period when they do that, though of course that style just happens to be the way they think they will get the best results, just like Stoke adopt a style to get good results.
Stoke have had sides in the past that play "good" football for want of a btter word and Nowrich have had sides that play dull football.
I get sick of hearing Newcastle fans and West Ham fans bleat on about how its all about the entertainment, as if they play like Brazil season in and season out.

We say nothing of the sort? And i doubt West Ham say that, they've got Fat Sam as manager.

I get sick of other people taking pot shots at a club they know nothing about.

All sides - and their fans - would love to play winning AND entertaining football. Just as it's ridiculous to knock long balls up to two small strikers, it's crazy to ask a team with technical deficiencies to knock it about at the back.
But in the desire to play attractively some teams confuse possession with penetration. You can have all the possession in the world but if there is no thrust or no pace then sides can defend against that all day.
All the great teams have pace and penetration. And they're not afraid to hit a long pass as well as a short one.

sirfredperry wrote:All sides - and their fans - would love to play winning AND entertaining football. Just as it's ridiculous to knock long balls up to two small strikers, it's crazy to ask a team with technical deficiencies to knock it about at the back.
But in the desire to play attractively some teams confuse possession with penetration. You can have all the possession in the world but if there is no thrust or no pace then sides can defend against that all day.
All the great teams have pace and penetration. And they're not afraid to hit a long pass as well as a short one.

That's what Norwich do

The fact that they have Fat Sam right now is the classic example of the fact clubs dont always play the beautiful game their fans would have you believe they play religously.

Diggers wrote:The fact that they have Fat Sam right now is the classic example of the fact clubs dont always play the beautiful game their fans would have you believe they play religously.

Please, give me examples of where you have seen West Ham or Newcastle fans talking like they play the beautiful game?

King Beer wrote:

Diggers wrote:The fact that they have Fat Sam right now is the classic example of the fact clubs dont always play the beautiful game their fans would have you believe they play religously.

Please, give me examples of where you have seen West Ham or Newcastle fans talking like they play the beautiful game?

https://www.606v2.com/t6005-allardyce-to-manage-west-ham

This thread seems to suggest some West Ham fans do believe they should be playing a beautiful game.

Crimey wrote:

King Beer wrote:

Diggers wrote:The fact that they have Fat Sam right now is the classic example of the fact clubs dont always play the beautiful game their fans would have you believe they play religously.

Please, give me examples of where you have seen West Ham or Newcastle fans talking like they play the beautiful game?

https://www.606v2.com/t6005-allardyce-to-manage-west-ham

This thread seems to suggest some West Ham fans do believe they should be playing a beautiful game.

Every fan believes they SHOULD play the beautiful game! Not every one says they DO

Crimey wrote:

King Beer wrote:

Diggers wrote:The fact that they have Fat Sam right now is the classic example of the fact clubs dont always play the beautiful game their fans would have you believe they play religously.

Please, give me examples of where you have seen West Ham or Newcastle fans talking like they play the beautiful game?

https://www.606v2.com/t6005-allardyce-to-manage-west-ham

This thread seems to suggest some West Ham fans do believe they should be playing a beautiful game.

That's should, not do? Slightly different Crimey.

Who, given the choice, doesn't want to see their team play attractive football? You'll have to try harder than that...

Well Im a Leeds fan, no chance of a trophy and we dont play sexy football. Not sure why I said that, but there we go.

Gav wrote:Well Im a Leeds fan, no chance of a trophy and we dont play sexy football. Not sure why I said that, but there we go.

Chris Iwelumo scored two past you?

How does that even happen? I thought it was an April Fool

GG wrote:Who, given the choice, doesn't want to see their team play attractive football? You'll have to try harder than that...

Agreed.

But Diggers seems to think he's got Newcastle and West Ham fans nailed on so i'd like to see examples of this?

Funnily enough I havent taped the numerous conversations Ive had with fans of those clubs that have led me to my conclusions. How exactly do you want me to prove it, its me giving my opinion.

It's still a case of horses for courses. Wimbledon and Watford were castigated for playing the long-ball game in the 80s but it suited them and it got results. Sides also seem far less adaptable when it comes to changing tactics. You'll often see teams continuing to try to knock it about when they are being closed down all over the pitch. Sometimes you have to go long and, in the words of Harry Hotspur: "Knock it up to Crouchie".

GG wrote:Who, given the choice, doesn't want to see their team play attractive football? You'll have to try harder than that...

The question is given the choice would you rather see your side play attractive football and win nothing, or not play a pretty game and win a trophy or champions league qualification. Nobody raves about teams playing pretty football when they are getting stuffed, suddenly its just about defensive frailties then.

Diggers wrote:Funnily enough I havent taped the numerous conversations Ive had with fans of those clubs that have led me to my conclusions. How exactly do you want me to prove it, its me giving my opinion.

I'd like to know what it's based on?

As a Newcastle fan, and obviously knowing alot of them, i can assure you i have never heard anyone talk about us like that, infact, most fans would tell you we've been dross at times this season.

Im not talking about this season, thats the whole point. Im talking about clubs historically supposedly playing a particular brand of football. For instance West Ham supposedly being the academy of good football.

Diggers wrote:Im not talking about this season, thats the whole point. Im talking about clubs historically supposedly playing a particular brand of football. For instance West Ham supposedly being the academy of good football.

I've never heard that.

Diggers wrote:

GG wrote:Who, given the choice, doesn't want to see their team play attractive football? You'll have to try harder than that...

The question is given the choice would you rather see your side play attractive football and win nothing, or not play a pretty game and win a trophy or champions league qualification. Nobody raves about teams playing pretty football when they are getting stuffed, suddenly its just about defensive frailties then.

Well in Swansea's case they're never going to get CL football, so from my POV I'd rather play good football all season than win the Carling Cup, for example.

GG wrote:

Diggers wrote:

GG wrote:Who, given the choice, doesn't want to see their team play attractive football? You'll have to try harder than that...

The question is given the choice would you rather see your side play attractive football and win nothing, or not play a pretty game and win a trophy or champions league qualification. Nobody raves about teams playing pretty football when they are getting stuffed, suddenly its just about defensive frailties then.

Well in Swansea's case they're never going to get CL football, so from my POV I'd rather play good football all season than win the Carling Cup, for example.

Same situation with Norwich, except we probably play more exciting footie so less attractive but still good footie

Electric Demon wrote:

Diggers wrote:Im not talking about this season, thats the whole point. Im talking about clubs historically supposedly playing a particular brand of football. For instance West Ham supposedly being the academy of good football.

I've never heard that.

Nor have I.

Although didn't your lot just produce it's 50th First Teamer from the academy?

Newcastle did play good attacking football under Keegan, but everyone agreed that. He also had the score one more than them mentality.

ollyrules wrote:

GG wrote:

Diggers wrote:

GG wrote:Who, given the choice, doesn't want to see their team play attractive football? You'll have to try harder than that...

The question is given the choice would you rather see your side play attractive football and win nothing, or not play a pretty game and win a trophy or champions league qualification. Nobody raves about teams playing pretty football when they are getting stuffed, suddenly its just about defensive frailties then.

Well in Swansea's case they're never going to get CL football, so from my POV I'd rather play good football all season than win the Carling Cup, for example.

Same situation with Norwich, except we probably play more exciting footie so less attractive but still good footie

Yeah, would agree with that. Enjoy watching you guys play.

ollyrules wrote:Of course you want to win, but me as a supporter of a club like Norwich know we ain't going to win any trophies yet so we like to see good entertaining football. That's why it must suck to be a Stoke fan

Be interesting to see in the long run whether Norwich prove to be as successful as Stoke have been in recent years. European football, FA Cup final appearance, Mid table regulars and one of the most intimidating home grounds in English football. They may not play the most attractive game (which has improved a lot since their debut season I might add) but having the loudest fans in the league seem to prove to me that your claim of being a Stoke fan must suck, quite frankly, ignorant. Still this is coming from a one man band harping on about Holt for England so I didn't expect a whole lot more if I'm honest.

Yep - 50 First Teamers from Harefield Academy. That place is a machine. Real Madrid's youth development team were recently over having a gander at it.

GG wrote:

ollyrules wrote:

GG wrote:

Diggers wrote:

GG wrote:Who, given the choice, doesn't want to see their team play attractive football? You'll have to try harder than that...

The question is given the choice would you rather see your side play attractive football and win nothing, or not play a pretty game and win a trophy or champions league qualification. Nobody raves about teams playing pretty football when they are getting stuffed, suddenly its just about defensive frailties then.

Well in Swansea's case they're never going to get CL football, so from my POV I'd rather play good football all season than win the Carling Cup, for example.

Same situation with Norwich, except we probably play more exciting footie so less attractive but still good footie

Yeah, would agree with that. Enjoy watching you guys play.

I'd say we play more efficient footie in that we work best whne we build up quickly, you are much more patient. We did destroy you twice this season though

Yeah, but Everton has been known as the School of Science. But under Moyes - a determined, hard-working manager - they have been rather dour.
Cynically, you could say he's kept his job by neither being that bad nor that good. Look merely at what's gone on at Sheff Wed and Huddersfield this season when a team was doing well, but not quite well enough.
Arsenal, for many years, were portrayed as a pragmatic, defensive, 1-0 win side. Yet under Wenger they have played some of the greatest football ever seen in the top flight.
Man U - traditionally an attractive, attacking side crammed full of superstars - look like winning the title for the second successive year with, again, some fairly unjoyous football.

two_tone wrote:

ollyrules wrote:Of course you want to win, but me as a supporter of a club like Norwich know we ain't going to win any trophies yet so we like to see good entertaining football. That's why it must suck to be a Stoke fan

Be interesting to see in the long run whether Norwich prove to be as successful as Stoke have been in recent years. European football, FA Cup final appearance, Mid table regulars and one of the most intimidating home grounds in English football. They may not play the most attractive game (which has improved a lot since their debut season I might add) but having the loudest fans in the league seem to prove to me that your claim of being a Stoke fan must suck, quite frankly, ignorant. Still this is coming from a one man band harping on about Holt for England so I didn't expect a whole lot more if I'm honest.

Everyone knows it's gonna happen

ollyrules wrote:

two_tone wrote:

ollyrules wrote:Of course you want to win, but me as a supporter of a club like Norwich know we ain't going to win any trophies yet so we like to see good entertaining football. That's why it must suck to be a Stoke fan

Be interesting to see in the long run whether Norwich prove to be as successful as Stoke have been in recent years. European football, FA Cup final appearance, Mid table regulars and one of the most intimidating home grounds in English football. They may not play the most attractive game (which has improved a lot since their debut season I might add) but having the loudest fans in the league seem to prove to me that your claim of being a Stoke fan must suck, quite frankly, ignorant. Still this is coming from a one man band harping on about Holt for England so I didn't expect a whole lot more if I'm honest.

Everyone knows it's gonna happen

A fat 30 year old who has next to no experience playing at the top level. Good one. I would take Crouch over him everytime.

two_tone wrote:

ollyrules wrote:

two_tone wrote:

ollyrules wrote:Of course you want to win, but me as a supporter of a club like Norwich know we ain't going to win any trophies yet so we like to see good entertaining football. That's why it must suck to be a Stoke fan

Be interesting to see in the long run whether Norwich prove to be as successful as Stoke have been in recent years. European football, FA Cup final appearance, Mid table regulars and one of the most intimidating home grounds in English football. They may not play the most attractive game (which has improved a lot since their debut season I might add) but having the loudest fans in the league seem to prove to me that your claim of being a Stoke fan must suck, quite frankly, ignorant. Still this is coming from a one man band harping on about Holt for England so I didn't expect a whole lot more if I'm honest.

Everyone knows it's gonna happen

A fat 30 year old who has next to no experience playing at the top level. Good one. I would take Crouch over him everytime.

That is a very true point and I wouldn't begrudge Crouch going tbh.
Also he isn't fat actually, that was just harsh

Liverpool are currently a goal down at home to Aston Villa. An Aston Villa draw would be a very good result for Villa, but for Liverpool, considering their current run, anything less tham a win would be considered a poor result.

Five home wins all season (so far at least) is pitiful. It is now not beyond the realms of possibility that we could finish in the bottom half. The upcoming F.A Cup semi is becoming more and more pivotal with every passing match.

I'm ridiculously nervous about the semi-final, if we lose that, our season truly has been a complete disaster.

two_tone wrote:

ollyrules wrote:Of course you want to win, but me as a supporter of a club like Norwich know we ain't going to win any trophies yet so we like to see good entertaining football. That's why it must suck to be a Stoke fan

Be interesting to see in the long run whether Norwich prove to be as successful as Stoke have been in recent years. European football, FA Cup final appearance, Mid table regulars and one of the most intimidating home grounds in English football. They may not play the most attractive game (which has improved a lot since their debut season I might add) but having the loudest fans in the league seem to prove to me that your claim of being a Stoke fan must suck, quite frankly, ignorant. Still this is coming from a one man band harping on about Holt for England so I didn't expect a whole lot more if I'm honest.

I think Norwich are easily capable of being a mid table EPL team for the foreseeable future and they have been in the UEFA Cup just as many times as Stoke have in the past 20 years

Obviously may the best team win between Everton and Liverpool at Wembley, but I would not begrudge David Moyes winning the tournament, considering he hasn't won any trophy with Everton.

There are a lot of grumbles about holding the Everton v Liverpool Semi-final at Wembley London, when it could have been held much closer (e.g. Old Trafford). The government is going to add to the escalator tax on fuel this summer in order to put-off motorists using their cars (part of its "climate change" policy) - yet it allows this.

Nore Staat wrote:Obviously may the best team win between Everton and Liverpool at Wembley, but I would not begrudge David Moyes winning the tournament, considering he hasn't won any trophy with Everton.

There are a lot of grumbles about holding the Everton v Liverpool Semi-final at Wembley London, when it could have been held much closer (e.g. Old Trafford). The government is going to add to the escalator tax on fuel this summer in order to put-off motorists using their cars (part of its "climate change" policy) - yet it allows this.

Completely agree with all of the above.

I would actually say Everton are favourites going into the tie, given their current run of form.


Would also like to post this joke I saw on another forum:

Titanic cost £200million...so did the Liverpool team. One is a sinking ship...the other is Titanic...

Thankyou ladies and gents. I'm here all week.

dyrewolfe wrote:

Nore Staat wrote:Obviously may the best team win between Everton and Liverpool at Wembley, but I would not begrudge David Moyes winning the tournament, considering he hasn't won any trophy with Everton.

There are a lot of grumbles about holding the Everton v Liverpool Semi-final at Wembley London, when it could have been held much closer (e.g. Old Trafford). The government is going to add to the escalator tax on fuel this summer in order to put-off motorists using their cars (part of its "climate change" policy) - yet it allows this.

Completely agree with all of the above.

I would actually say Everton are favourites going into the tie, given their current run of form.


Would also like to post this joke I saw on another forum:

Titanic cost £200million...so did the Liverpool team. One is a sinking ship...the other is Titanic...

Thankyou ladies and gents. I'm here all week.