Timing talk on Sky about Nadal

First topic message reminder :

It does seem like people are waking up to the facts. 'Teflon' is how Leif Shiras described Nadal with respect to time rules. Marcus Buckland mentioned that Umpires seem to find it difficult to make the rules stick on him.

I hate to see anyone just be so arrogant about the code of the sport.

It'll not change until he's outside the top 4. Then the rules will be enforced, but it's finally becoming acceptable to point it out.

Tenez wrote: Why not drown the fish once and for all.

To me, Nadal and Toni may have known from day one that Nadal needed more time between points but they were like everybody else trying to abide by the rule. There was no routine before Miami 2005 as can be very easily verified by anybody. Before then, extra time was only taken if absolutely needed like after a gruelling rally.

The Miami 2005 loss clearly teaches team Nadal an important lesson. That controlling this time taking is extremely important for the outcome of a long match. And therefore a routine was put in place 2 weeks later to be applied from the first point of the match, whether it's a gruelling rally or not. That is the same routine we see today.

Yes but to be honest this is pure supposition and I just dont buy it.
I disagree with some of the specific points above too...but I'm not commenting any further on this topic as we both know where it leads!

Look Nadal isn't the only one.

Djokovic resorts to constant ball bouncing when under pressure. If that isn't a tactic then I don't know what is.

Tenez wrote: I actually did a couple of times in that Harrison AO match...and was a bit gutted to see that he went over 30s on longer rallies...AFTER having complained to the referee about Ryan's time abuse.

Exactly! Its become endemic, the umpires are going to find it very hard to get the guys to stick to 20s in a slam...what gives!

Tennisanorak wrote:Lydian, can you not see that taking more time is much more crucial to Nadal's game than Djokovic? Djokovic can blow people away with heavy artillery groundshots. Look at the way he plays Federer and the way Nadal plays Federer. Nadal hardly can. If asked to speed up, Nadal will struggle more than Djokovic to keep up the quality of his tennis. Of course, I will now be accused of being anti- Nadal for pointing out something so basic as this.

I don't know about being "anti-Nadal" but I do wonder if you have ever watched Nadal play. Nadal has a few heavy artillery groundshots of his own... spectacular heavy artillery groundshots. I also think Nadal knows how to play Federer. Djokovic could learn a bit from him...

Exactly HE, as Stepanek and Giraldo have already found out this week. His FH winners are often timed around the 100mph mark...they dont get much bigger than that, even from Del-walking-forehand-Potro!

legendkillarV2 wrote:Look Nadal isn't the only one.

Djokovic resorts to constant ball bouncing when under pressure. If that isn't a tactic then I don't know what is.

I genuinely don't think it's tactics. Judge for yourself:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhXSuH6A5yE

Calder106 wrote:Hawkeye,
How is Murray using the media. There is no interview with him that has been published where he has said this. They may have chatted informally about it and he may have said that players use it to recover after long rallies. Nadal has said this himself so it's not news. Do you really think he has gone to Barry Cowan and said I want you to say this on television to get under Nadal's skin ? I'm sure if he wanted to make a point out of it he would say so publicly himself. Remember you are the one who is always critising what he says in his Neil Harman discussions ?

We always get to know what Murray thinks. There was no published interview this time but we still get to hear. How many players get to have informal chats with commentators who then pass on and back up their views?

I don't think Nadal would be upset by what Barry Cowan said (Ha ha!) but I dont agree with players interfering or policing rules rather than the umpire. This sort of disruption IMO is more problematic than a few extra seconds. This is a tactic that was being put forward by commentators. This is a tactic that Murray has used to his advantage previously.

BTW Nice to see you back. havn't seen you comment for a while.

Why do you have a problem with a player wanting the rules enforced? I mean, they more than anyone have the most right to so demand! The Umpires are a service to them, not an authority over them, and are not the keepers of the rules of the game, merely functionaries assigned to see them operated.

That they fail is no legitimisation of rule breaking.

Hawkeye

Don't think Murray and Cowan are best of mates so would be a bit surprised if they were sitting down having cosy chats. Even if they did we do not know what question was asked. That's always my gripe about these so called quotes. There is no context in what was involved in the rest of the conversation.

Anyway your point seems now to be more about ther Harrison match. I'll admit I wasn't too comfortable with it at the time. However now the whole issue of time violations is in vogue then maybe more players should be bringing the umpires attention to it if they think it is getting abused. If Murray is doing it in a match and gets called for it thats fine with me.

Tennisanorak wrote:Absolutely, Tenez. If everyone liked all styles, it would be really boring! My view on Nadal is very similar. He's a good defensive player, so it's fun to see aggressive players playing against him. But when he plays another defensive player (or forces an aggressive player to play defensively- you know who I'm talking about!), it can get pretty boring.

I actually don;t mind 2 defenders battling it out either....though like you cannot watch too much of it. But seeing a Nadal v Nadal can be fun and in that respect I got my share of pleasure watching a few of Nadal v Djoko as that was as close as it gets.

What I really dislike is seeing Nadal versus someone like Llodra, Stepanek, and at times Federer being ridiculed cause the ball they are dealing with is simply impossible to control. It's like watching an elephant in a porcelaine shop.

I think players will be told before the match not to go overtime. I already noticed Nadal being a bit faster. Too early to say but I am pretty that a lot of work has been done already behind the curtains.

If players have problems with how rules are being enforced it should be something that the player council should deal with or at least discussed prior to a match. Discussions with Umpires should take place outside of match time. Individual players should not get involved during match play. Players should not be encouraged to use tactics to distract an opponant.

Tenez wrote:

What I really dislike is seeing Nadal versus someone like Llodra, Stepanek, and at times Federer being ridiculed cause the ball they are dealing with is simply impossible to control. It's like watching an elephant in a porcelaine shop.

If you want to use that analogy isn't the "elephant" more descriptive of the flat high risk shots of your liking against the more carefully constructed, work the point "porceline shop" style of Nadals game?

hawkeye wrote:Individual players should not get involved during match play. Players should not be encouraged to use tactics to distract an opponant.

Are you refereing to the rule breaker or the player trying to enforce the rule?

This forum will be dead soon because there are very few good discussion. Personally, I don't understand what makes someone hate some players so much - what do they get? All the top sportsmen are there because they have one thing in common - hard work!

Going back to the thread - I agree that Nadal does take longer time then others between points and I do wish that he make changes to be fair to other players. However, how can someone hate a player who has contributed so much to tennis popularity. I know people like tezez will jump into saying that he only has Fan girls - but don't you think fan girls are just as important as fan boys? What is the difference? F1 appealed to many females during Senna's time - physical attraction is human nature and if Nadal attracts females good for him.

All players have something negative about them - no one is perfect. Federer is awful and sometimes rude, but that never makes me hate him because like all players he has many positive things about him. Just like Vettle yesterday who was extremely rude but one has to love him as a pure race driver.

Please lets focus on the good side of tennis. If there really is something negative about tennis that is genuinely threatening the game and that should be discussed then it should be the calendar. Tennis season is far too long - compared to other individual sports. Top players in particular are effected because they play much more because they always reach last stages in the game.

Please don't slate me for my English - it is my second language.

Tenez wrote:

Tennisanorak wrote:Absolutely, Tenez. If everyone liked all styles, it would be really boring! My view on Nadal is very similar. He's a good defensive player, so it's fun to see aggressive players playing against him. But when he plays another defensive player (or forces an aggressive player to play defensively- you know who I'm talking about!), it can get pretty boring.

I actually don;t mind 2 defenders battling it out either....though like you cannot watch too much of it. But seeing a Nadal v Nadal can be fun and in that respect I got my share of pleasure watching a few of Nadal v Djoko as that was as close as it gets.

What I really dislike is seeing Nadal versus someone like Llodra, Stepanek, and at times Federer being ridiculed cause the ball they are dealing with is simply impossible to control. It's like watching an elephant in a porcelaine shop.

That is exactly why Nadal has his fan base - everything about him is different. It may not be pretty but it is different and challenging to many players. Are you implying that Nadal's way of hitting the balls should be banned because your favourite players can't easily control? Anyway, I am singing out now. I know Tenez in unbeatable.

superochog wrote:This forum will be dead soon because

I stopped reading after you said that.

Now Fleming weighing in saying Nadal may want 35 seconds between points to get his breath back but is it good for the game?

It's on the move.

Took them long enough to start noticing!