Who is the best kicker in Rugby Union?

Some teams are built around their ability to kick from anywhere on the field (such as the Italian team and the England World Cup winning team ) but who do you think is the greatest kicker of all time.

Let me know what you think are the attributes that make a great kicker - distance, pressure kicking, drop goals, all round ability etc).

Would love to hear your thoughts.

I will allow people to change their votes as more names are suggested to me (I am sure I have missed some obvious ones!)

Matt Giteau
James Hook
Scott Patterson

I wont add Hook (and I am Welsh!) as he is okay but nowhere near the level of the greats on that list (well not yet anyway)

Not sure whay Jenkins is doing on that list (never mind that someone has actually voted for him. Is he the token Welshman? I'm sure there are better Welsh kickers over the years than him. Thorburn?

You mea Neil Jenkins, the highest ever scoring Wleshman and third highest scoring in the world?

Why would he be on that list.....

I voted for him!

Giteau! - The Aussies dont have a good kicker, that why O'Connor was made to kick in the 3Ns.

Surely Morne Steyn should be on the list! - he is the most accurate goal kicker playing today (well, O'Gara and Wilkinson might be close)

jenkins may be right up at the top of the stats, but IMO they flatter to deceive.

How about "King" Barry John? This extract from Wikipedia...

Rodney Webb, the man who developed the modern rugby ball, also believes that Barry John was the greatest kicker of all time. As he points out, these days the balls are coated in a laminate used on the hulls of giant oil tankers, have dimpled surfaces, unobtrusive lacing and multi panels. In the Seventies the balls soaked up water, swerved all over the place and were placed on muddy and sometimes uneven pitches (unlike many of today's professional rugby pitches) without the use of tees.

Can't beleive no Gavin Hastings or Andy Irvine on the list, or Chris Paterson!

For me it would probably be

Carter
Wilkinson
G Hastings

Added!

Had to go with Paterson. One of the most consistent kickers over the last 10 years, his record a couple of seasons ago as well was just incredible.

I always felt Paterson's record was artifically inflated due to the fact that many of the harder/longer kicks were given to someone else

Was it the last RWC where he had a 100% record over the tournament, but that record was "preserved" by kicks in the later stages over 45 yards being taken by Dan Parks(?)

It was never being Presrved. He did not have the physical strength to kick the ball that distance. He always takes the narrower harder angled kicks. I would say a touchline conversion is harder than a halfway line penalty that is straight on.

His kicks are just as difficult although his range is poorer.

Similar setup where Hook or Halfpenny take long kicks out of Stephen Jones' range.

Chris Patterson, you can't really argue with the stats.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:It was never being Presrved. He did not have the physical strength to kick the ball that distance.

I wasn't trying to imply that the "preservation" was a deliberate ploy just to protect his record - but it did indeed have that effect

I've voted Wilkinson, assuming you're putting everyone at their best. At their best (2000-2003) England played some terrific rugby to which Wilkinson was central, but one of their great strengths was that the opposition knew that if they infringed in their own half they would give away three points.

Carter and Hastings tied for second, possibly followed by Jenkins and Patterson (I'm young so have only watched since about 95 or so)

Also Matt Giteau has no place on that list, sorry. Michael Lynagh is much more deserving IMO

I considered Michael Lynagh but had to stop the list somewhere.

No clear favourite yet and I am surprised about some of the comments re Neil Jenkins - a legend in my eyes.

Actually didn't realise this article was all-round kicking, rather than just goal kicking. I stand by my decision of ranking Wilko n°1, his kicking from hand was excellent, and we all know his ability with drop goals.

However, I wold now rank Carter ahead of Hastings (kicks better from hand).

Wilko
Carter
Jenkins/Hastings
Patterson/Steyn

Hobo - Jenkins would have been second for me. He was my favourite player growing up mind so it was tough to pick Paterson over him!

Patterson obviously for place kicking

O Gara wins hands down as a tactical kicker out of hand.

comment by OnASideNote (U10838466)
posted 1 Hour Ago
Eh, Dan Carter???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdQtZt7k_YE

comment by kiakahaaotearoa (U9212294)
posted 1 Hour Ago
Don Clarke might have the record for that The Gramlin. And he was kicking a way heavier ball.

Plenty of good goal kickers. patterson was gash as a player but a great kicker. M Steyn is a kicking machine but not much else. Botha, Porta, Lynagh, Fox, Merths, Hastings, Jenkins, Wilko were all favourite kickers for me.

Early to say but M Steyn is a goal kicking machine for me.

comment by GLove (U14685743)
posted 1 Hour Ago
Chris Patterson had a great record a few seasons back, something like 36 out of 36 in a row (Steyn then broke that record)
Also in terms of what his kicks have done for Scotland, it's pretty impressive.
Chris has kicked scotland to two Calcutta Cup victories.
Kicked 7 from 7 against Wales in 2007 (scotland won 21-9)
Kicked Scotland to first test win in Argentina in 2008.
Best % kicker at RWC 2007, also kicked Scotland into the quater finals.
Scored the winning drop goal against Australia.

And since a lot of the above posts have started mentioning defence, his try saving tackles in the six nations were epic.
Chris you're a hero <3

comment by Mr_stonelea (U4372400)
posted 1 Hour Ago
Remember in the good old days (70s), the grass was ankle high and they had no kicking tees. So a 50% success rate was the target for kickers then.

Dusty Hare should be mentioned in this category. Probably the first of the metronomic type kickers (well in England anyway)

comment by dummy_half (U3864728)
posted 1 Hour Ago
As a goal kicker, you'd have to go a long way to find anyone better than Wilkinson up to the 2003 RWC. I know Patterson and now Steyn have longer streaks of success, but CP in particular lacks range -35m and in he's metronomic, but Wilko kicked pretty much 9 out of 10 from anywhere in the opposition half in his pomp.

Best kicker from hand? that's a more difficult question, as you have players like O'Gara who is an excellent defensive/positional kicker but doesn't have a huge boot (better than Wilkinson now though) and isn't necessarily the most inventive kicker.
My recollection of Lynagh was that he was very good at lots of things, including both defensive and attacking kicks.

Best DG kicker has to be the Saffer that knocked over 5 against England in a RWC (De Boer?)

comment by plenth (U4566895)
posted 1 Hour Ago
Dan Carter has the best all round kicking game, tactical, attacking deft touches, and accuracy & distance from place kicks.

Neil Jenkins was a great kicker, but kickers have really upped the stakes in regard to place kicking in recent years. Specialist kicking coaches and physical development that professionalism has brought in mean that players who have benefited from that all their career will attempt kicks that 15 years ago people wouldn't have even considered.

As one of the kickers beginning his career at the dawn of professionalism, Wilkinson stood out for a while as one of the first to make the most of this. Most kickers back then tended to kick to touch if a penalty was awarded in the opposition half, but beyond the 10m line or near touch. In the late 90s/early 00s it started to become unusual for Wilkinson not to take a stab at and usually get anything inside the opposition half. The best kickers now go further, having a go at anything closer to the opposition posts than their 10m line

comment by Timbers8 (U1687149)
posted 53 Minutes Ago
Are we just talking about goal kicking?

Whats forgotten about is that Wilkinson's record in the last two WC's was not great (something like 65% in 2003; and 57% in 2007), but I guess when you are winning people only remember those that mattered.

I would say Patterson, Jenkins (who holds the record with something like 46 consecutive kicks), Fox and Steyn would be the best place kickers.

I'd have Wilkinson as the best drop goaler, and maybe ROG at kicking the corners.

For an all round kicking game (place kicks, drop goals and kicking from hand), I'd have Wilkinson followed by Lynagh

comment by Riskysports (U12560557)
posted 53 Minutes Ago
For % success has to be Patterson.

Patterson did not miss a kick for 2 6 nations in a row, plus a world cup - not sure anyone can come close to that.

Also I wish people would stop going on about the range - it is rubbish

his range is not under 35, more like 45m - he just knows when he is out of range and choses to not waste a kick he can not get

comment by miaow (U14754621)
posted 31 Minutes Ago
mgh (U14483538)

No, I disagree. It's not based on statistics, purely from what I've seen, but the so called 'easy' kicks you mention are probably missed in equal or greater quanitity than the ones that are further out. Mostly, because kickers only take long distance ones that are fairly central, so don't have to worry about a tight angle.

Ask any kicker, and the medium range kicks are the hardest to take. There's an expectation that you should kick them, whereas that isn't the case for ones around halfway. Anyway, as I said, I believe kickers miss as many medium range as the do long range kicks, at all levels, from international to your local club. Paterson is undoubtedly brilliant at consistently landing the medium range kicks; better than most other kickers in fact. Just like few kickers wouldn't take a kick from halfway that was right out on the touchline, you shouldn't criticise Paterson for not taking kicks that are at the edge or beyond the range of his boot...

comment by grw1 (U14140277)
posted 29 Minutes Ago
neil jenkins!he scored over 1000 points in an unsucseful team!imagine how many points hed have racked up in a good team!he was sometines only getting 3 or 4 kicks a game where as wilkinson an carter etc regularly get/got 7 or 8 kicks a game!the same goes for dominguez!he had a hell of a record an carried italy for years

comment by funnyExiledScot (U8659606)
posted 27 Minutes Ago
I think in the NH game currently ROG probably has the best allround kicking game, followed by Parks (who may lack many things, but his kicking game is extremely strong).

Wilkinson's kicking from hand in recent seasons has been frankly poor.

In the SH, I would have thought Morne Steyn would be the best goal kicker, with Carter probably ruling the roost kicking from hand.

Overall - I'd probably give it to Carter

comment by thegreyghost (U12264402)
posted 25 Minutes Ago
That's such a naive opinion. Any half decent goal kicker would have run up a similar tally - simply by virtue that England's game plan 2000-2003 was to grind up tight in the forwards and take pot shots at goal. In fact, Wilkinson's accuracy was never great (something around 75%, and much lower under pressure)...his range was not more than average. His tactical kicking was always his weak spot. Frankly you have to take into account his injury rate. What goods a player who's never available?

omment by panamaroadotahuhu2 (U14192975)
posted 14 Minutes Ago
Does anyone remember Gerald Bosch?

I do.

I remember him kicking all sorts against the ABs in 1976.

These were the days of our "kicker crisis" - the transition from the granite jawed, jug-eared toe punting leviathans referred to above, to this new fangled ( and frankly suspect, let's not beat about the bush here Colin ) round the corner style favoured by wearers of after-shave and Europeans. Thin end of the wedge, you mark my words. Next they'll be openly showing emotions and the next thing after that your in a Turkish Baths with the taste of another man's moustache.....

....err anyway, I remember Gerald Bosch being an extremely good kicker who morphed magically into Naas Botha who begat Joel Stransky.

Big Ups to Alan Hewson! Referred to in the "Round the Corner Kicking Stub" as the glove wearing Alan Hewson.

Wearing gloves! Thin end of the wedge I tell ya. Next thing you know your in Studio 54 and there's a Donna Summer record playing .....

Voted O'Gara just because I think his all round kicking game is just about the best. Don't agree with Wilkinson & Patterson leading the way as niether have what I feel is a great kicking from hand game. Behind O'Gara was thinking Steyn & Carter. I feel that eventually Steyn could top the list but we won't know that until he is nearing the end of his career.

Ended up picking all modern kickers because I feel that like the game itself kicking has progressed. Rule changes like not being able to take the ball back into the 22 and kick out on the full have made it much harder for modern kickers. Also, modern kickers tend to take more risks now when kicking to touch from penalties where as I feel kickers used to be more conservative.

For goal kicking, I'll say Chris Patterson, 100% legend. Didn't miss a single attempt throughout 07 WC and 08 6Ns and Scotland's record points scorer.

Barry John, Phil Bennett, Dusty Hare & the English fullback of the early 70's (sorry can't remember his name, but never seemed to miss).

I always liked Neil Jenkins, but equally I've admiration for Paterson, Wilko and ROG as well....but I couldn't pick them all!

Hazzar made it onto here finally!! Has to be Jenko for me!!

The ginger monster for me, he was so good at it that the Lions won the series in 97 off the back of it.

Plus, extra kudos for building a sand castle before every kick!

morning!

First trip to 606v2. To me the best kicker I have seen is Patterson. But it is close. Jonny W., Neil Jenkins, even Ronan O'Gara have been consistently quite good over a period of time. But I interpreted this question narrowly. This is nor asking who was the best 10, 12, defender or whatever. imply the best kicker.

However, if I want one kicker in any situation, I would still probably defer to Jonny, since he has done it on the biggest stages.

If you are including golden oldies where is Grant Fox? The man won the 1987 WC for NZ and revolutionised outside half play. He would break teams by the consistent building of points and his mates would run riot. Let's face it, he couldn't do anything else, so we should exalt his kicking prowess.

Ultimatly it depends on what gounds were selecting on. You could argue Jonathan Davies because he used to drop goal teams to death. If your talking about place kickers Id go for Domingo Dominguez.

Id exclude Neil Jenkins because at times he was shocking. I'll never forget in 1993 against Ireland when he had loads of attempts at goal and missed nearly all of them. Then again against Canada in 1995 he missed 3 stright attempts which put Wales under a lot of pressure.
It wasnt until 1994 or so that he got any good at kicking.

Though i will agree with Draigoch about the sand castles, I seem to remember 1 game against maybe Portugal where Wales scored 14 or something tries and he had sand everwhere from taking conversions, lol.

None of them could kick like that coming out of the womb. Barry John invented the round the corner kicking style. Urban myth or it is true?

Best Kicker?

As already pointed out, that covers a multitude of talents. The best dropgoal kicker I saw play was Barry John, the ball had left his boot almost before it had reached his hands, so quick it was almost impossible to charge down.

Out of hand? probably ROG when he is at his best.

Penalties? Patterson has an amazing record, but Jenkins for me - he scored so many points over so many years and was (generally) so consistent.

All round kicker? Lynagh in my judgement - he could do it all. Carter is impressive too. JW suffers in the all round rankings because his kicking from hand under pressure has, frankly, been woeful at times.

Just out of interest, why are Diego Dominguez and Hugo Porta not mentioned here?

Would go for Lynagh myself.

I can't actually belive anyone is questioning having Jenkins on the list. The first player to score over 1000 points in internationals and playing for a poor team...

even though I voted for Jenks I think it was probably between nasty booter and hugo porter

Donald Barry Clarke "THE BOOT" any where up to 65 metres[at sea level].Place or drop,punts up to 90 metre s with the old heavy leather balls
in any weather.

I cannot believe people are questioning the inclusion of Neil Jenkins !!! This man was a kicking machine !!! In fact he was one of the first modern pro kicker and started all sorts of trends. He was the first person to score over 1000 international points whilst playing for one of the worst Welsh sides in history and almost single handedly won the 97 Lions tour, whilst playing at FULL BACK as the coaches needed to put him somewhere just to have him on the field for his "kicking abilities".

LordDowlais wrote:I cannot believe people are questioning the inclusion of Neil Jenkins !!! This man was a kicking machine !!! In fact he was one of the first modern pro kicker and started all sorts of trends. He was the first person to score over 1000 international points whilst playing for one of the worst Welsh sides in history and almost single handedly won the 97 Lions tour, whilst playing at FULL BACK as the coaches needed to put him somewhere just to have him on the field for his "kicking abilities".

100% agree which is why I put him in the poll in the first place.

Nick Evans