Wales could be All Blacks biggest challenge for 2012

First topic message reminder :

Don't see this very often...plus there's the little matter of the four nations before that but nevertheless...good way to start the tension flowing...!

http://www.allblacks.com/news/18926/Wales-could-be-All-Blacks-biggest-challenge

"Wales could be All Blacks biggest challenge for 2012..."

Then again, we might not.

Front page news right there, sportsfans.

Good comments gents...really does make this an exciting year of rugby.

I'm fairly confident at least one of the 7 may go. If I had to rate them I'd pick the Welsh/ English tests in the AI's as the most likely, followed by Ireland in the first home test, then Argentina over there.

We've actually not done too great in Argentina- last 2 tests in '06 and '01 being 6 and 4 points diff and like Scotland and Ireland have drawn there.

As with SA we find the environment very different...

Taylor

I presume you are a member of the ABs forum. Any chance you could copy and paste some of the replies to the piece.

I'm with you, we are going to lose sooner or later to these teams. In terms of the original post it's hard to put Wales above SA or Aus. Wales at home are a chance. They have agood side. The test in terms of the coachs fears, will be if we field a full strength side.

Ireland also have a chance, we tend to struggle a bit with form in our first and last games of the season. They have three games. A solitary win or a draw for them will be seen as success. Whilst a good win for the AB's could lead to rotation to look at new players at test level.

I think the same applies for Scotland and Italy. We generally treat these games as midweek games, with largely second string sides. They have a real chance. Especially at home.

I agree with you re: argentina. They are improving. They actually have a chance to build a team through regular competition. I think home grounds, the travel factor (huge), and intensity of the comp give them a chance.

Unfortunately we are due our once a decade loss to England.

Taylorman wrote:Good comments gents...really does make this an exciting year of rugby.

I'm fairly confident at least one of the 7 may go. If I had to rate them I'd pick the Welsh/ English tests in the AI's as the most likely, followed by Ireland in the first home test, then Argentina over there.

We've actually not done too great in Argentina- last 2 tests in '06 and '01 being 6 and 4 points diff and like Scotland and Ireland have drawn there.

As with SA we find the environment very different...

maestegmafia wrote:Taylor

I presume you are a member of the ABs forum. Any chance you could copy and paste some of the replies to the piece.

Yep no problem. I just tried and for some reason the item is closed for comments which is a bit odd this soon.

Perhaps it became to controversial?

Will check later in any case.

The only way I can see Wales beating the AB's this Autumn is if they go to Australia and win at least a Test there, if not the series. It's all well and good saying that this Welsh side has a better mentality than the Slam sides of old, but in 05 they beat England in a close game and came back from a deficit in Paris and in 08 they toughed out wins in Croke Park and Twickers, and surely the same theories about a new mentality were bandied about then?

Yet, they never did it in the Souther Hemisphere. They need a win in Australia this summer to take the next step. Otherwise I fear that they will become like the Welsh sides of 05 and 08.

JDizzle wrote:The only way I can see Wales beating the AB's this Autumn is if they go to Australia and win at least a Test there, if not the series. It's all well and good saying that this Welsh side has a better mentality than the Slam sides of old, but in 05 they beat England in a close game and came back from a deficit in Paris and in 08 they toughed out wins in Croke Park and Twickers, and surely the same theories about a new mentality were bandied about then?

Yet, they never did it in the Souther Hemisphere. They need a win in Australia this summer to take the next step. Otherwise I fear that they will become like the Welsh sides of 05 and 08.

Not really, in 2005 the welsh team won playing great rugby but there were already whispers of problems in the dressing room. The players also went on a two year bender puffed up full of self importance in their bubble until it was burst by Fiji. The 05 team broke the Grand Slam jinx Wales had at that point and won another one when discipline was imposed in 2008. That was important phsycolgically for Wales, winning the championship broke through one of the mental barriers but the scars of 25 years of pain didnt go away. The teams fragile mentality was exposed again and again. The difference with this team and the 05-08 vintage is palpable. They havent suffered humiliating defeats everyone in 05 had and most of the team in 08 had. This team is a new breed. What has defined them is their proffesionalism and commitment. two words you certainly couldnt use about the 05 team.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

JDizzle wrote:The only way I can see Wales beating the AB's this Autumn is if they go to Australia and win at least a Test there, if not the series. It's all well and good saying that this Welsh side has a better mentality than the Slam sides of old, but in 05 they beat England in a close game and came back from a deficit in Paris and in 08 they toughed out wins in Croke Park and Twickers, and surely the same theories about a new mentality were bandied about then?

Yet, they never did it in the Souther Hemisphere. They need a win in Australia this summer to take the next step. Otherwise I fear that they will become like the Welsh sides of 05 and 08.

Not really, in 2005 the welsh team won playing great rugby but there were already whispers of problems in the dressing room. The players also went on a two year bender puffed up full of self importance in their bubble until it was burst by Fiji. The 05 team broke the Grand Slam jinx Wales had at that point and won another one when discipline was imposed in 2008. That was important phsycolgically for Wales, winning the championship broke through one of the mental barriers but the scars of 25 years of pain didnt go away. The teams fragile mentality was exposed again and again. The difference with this team and the 05-08 vintage is palpable. They havent suffered humiliating defeats everyone in 05 had and most of the team in 08 had. This team is a new breed. What has defined them is their proffesionalism and commitment. two words you certainly couldnt use about the 05 team.

It's a fair point, and I believe that this Welsh side is better mentally, and better equipped to take on the the Southern Hemisphere sides but they do need a win this summer. Despite being together for only a short time, they have already lost by one point to South Africa, one point to France (both in big games) and to Aus twice. They are becoming nearly men again. They need to arrest this losing streak to the Southern Hemi sides quickly, before it does become endemic to this side aswell. If they reach the end of 2012 without a win against any of the original Tri-Nations sides then I will be doubting whether they can ever do it. They've got their foot in the door of becoming a world class side, but they need to win in Australia and they need to win this Autumn otherwise they will become the nearly men once more.

Can Wales win in Australia? Clearly.

Will Wales win in Australia? God knows.

I agree with the Welsh posters (first time for everything ) that this Wales team seems to have a lot more determination and a hard work ethos that should mean they win more of the 50/50 matches that they've tended to lose in the past.

The question then, though, is are Australia away likely to be a 50/50 match for Wales, to which the answer for me I'm afraid is no, anymore than they would be for England, before anybody has a pop.

It's a good Welsh team who deserved their Grand Slam, but good enough to beat Australia on their own ground - I doubt it, to be honest.

I think Wales, like England, should be honest enough to admit that there's still a gap to close between NH & SH and wins, at this stage, are going to be the rare exception.

Wicked, I think one of the reasons the NH teams do not win regularly against the SH is becuase they don't play them often enough.

Becuase of the differences of how the game is played between the two hemispheres it is really just the pace of the game that varies.

I had a chat to my brother in law one day when I was still playing club rugby, and he came up with this truth.

The difference from one level to another is only space and time. Becuase of the fact that the SH plays the breakdown area quicker than the NH (In my opinion the only real difference) there is an adjustment necessary to get used to that difference in space and time.

With one off games teams barely have enough time to get used to that.

With this year being three test match tours, the NH temas en masse will have a greater opportunity to beat their Sh rivals, simply becuase they now will have three tests to adjust.

In my view test series should return as standard operating procedure and the one off tests cancelled.

Taylorman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Taylor

I presume you are a member of the ABs forum. Any chance you could copy and paste some of the replies to the piece.

Yep no problem. I just tried and for some reason the item is closed for comments which is a bit odd this soon.

Perhaps it became to controversial?

Will check later in any case.

Cheers mate.

I imagine there might be a few differences in opinion, though most kiwis I know think rate Wales higher than most fans up here after their showing at the RWC.

Interesting concept Biltong and probably true, but can a team really adjust to a different style of play in 3 matches? Probably they can to some extent, but it's a big ask, I think.

Also, I think it's a bit more than that, to be honest. I think there's a fair gulf in basic skills, particularly with ball in hand, between SH & NH sides, which either comes from player development, or as a natural consequence of the different types of game we play.

Apart from our Twickenham game against Oz (which I tend to regard as a fluke) I don't recall any NH team beating SH sides except on occasion with suicidal defence and a big boot.

That may be enough again this time, but I doubt it to be honest.

biltongbek wrote:Wicked, I think one of the reasons the NH teams do not win regularly against the SH is becuase they don't play them often enough.

Becuase of the differences of how the game is played between the two hemispheres it is really just the pace of the game that varies.

I had a chat to my brother in law one day when I was still playing club rugby, and he came up with this truth.

The difference from one level to another is only space and time. Becuase of the fact that the SH plays the breakdown area quicker than the NH (In my opinion the only real difference) there is an adjustment necessary to get used to that difference in space and time.

With one off games teams barely have enough time to get used to that.

With this year being three test match tours, the NH temas en masse will have a greater opportunity to beat their Sh rivals, simply becuase they now will have three tests to adjust.

In my view test series should return as standard operating procedure and the one off tests cancelled.

It's true.

Quick ball is what gets sides over the gain line regularly. In the NH we stagnate the breakdown to often almost turning it into a reset or set piece like situation. Slow ball and little momentum plus defences re aligned and ready for the next phase.

We seem to think that counter attack and broken play are the best ways to score points without conceding.

I am not confident that Wales will win against the kiwis or wallabies because of the way we are playing the game, one glimmer of hope that dies make me think we have more chance now is the quantity of quality players in Wales. In 08 and 05 if we had to use our Bench we were weakened significantly that is not true anymore. The whole squad and the players surrounding that squad are all very good. At least half the first choice team have competition for their places within the squad. That is very good for performance.

wickedwasp wrote:Interesting concept Biltong and probably true, but can a team really adjust to a different style of play in 3 matches? Probably they can to some extent, but it's a big ask, I think.

Also, I think it's a bit more than that, to be honest. I think there's a fair gulf in basic skills, particularly with ball in hand, between SH & NH sides, which either comes from player development, or as a natural consequence of the different types of game we play.

Apart from our Twickenham game against Oz (which I tend to regard as a fluke) I don't recall any NH team beating SH sides except on occasion with suicidal defence and a big boot.

That may be enough again this time, but I doubt it to be honest.

Wicked, but one again those skills are becuase of the speed the SH s accustomed to. when you handle a ball at a specific speed or level and you are looking competent, as soon as defences rush up quicker and the pace of the game is faster once again your skills will be put under the same pressure.

That was my point Biltong - we're not going to up our skill levels dramatically in three matches

It will improve though, perhaps not dramatically, but it will improve as the series goes on.

Wales are under a lot of pressure to beat the AB's this year as their under achievement in rugby is epitomised by their failure to beat them. NZ and Wales are the only 2 countries that have rugby as their national game, that plays it seriously through all level from school onwards, where all the best athlete will be directed and nurtured, with a framework of leagues that take rugby extremely seriously. So although both countries don't have large populations and hence not as many "registered players" as some, in terms of a focused and ambitious structure they have by far the biggest pool to select from. Yet the AB's are at the top and Wales have been unable to join them at the top table unlike England and Australia for example, where rugby is way down the pecking order and is largely played as more of a pass-time by most than anything remotely serious or ambitious. The time has come when Wales must win or the discomfort of not having triumphed over the other "rugby country" will become unbearable.

I wouldn't let it become some kind of personal thing. Face it, the entire NH has massively underperformed against the SH.

This summer, a couple of wins in SA or Aus would go a long way to starting to show what we can do.

Whatever they may say in public, SH sides expect to beat us (with reason) & we (subconsciously or not) half expect to lose.

If we can put a dent in their confidence and enhance ours, then we're in with a shout whenever we play them.

Bit dramatic and dismissive of people playing the game of rugby in England there A Wedding and 3 Funerals. Tell that to your U20 team for example that they´re just passing time out there.

Rugby is our national game in NZ but there are more representatives in other sports like golf or football. If you talk about committed individuals to the sport, there really isn´t the gulf between England and the smaller nations that you´d have us believe.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Bit dramatic and dismissive of people playing the game of rugby in England there A Wedding and 3 Funerals. Tell that to your U20 team for example that they´re just passing time out there.

Rugby is our national game in NZ but there are more representatives in other sports like golf or football. If you talk about committed individuals to the sport, there really isn´t the gulf between England and the smaller nations that you´d have us believe.

kiak, I'm not being dismissive, please note that I say "most" not "all" treat the game as a pass-time. Undoubtedly there is a structure in England that take the game very seriously, it's just not as big as those in NZ and Wales.

Proportionally not but in absolute terms I think it´s the same.

10 % of the Chinese market is way more attractive than 100 per cent of the NZ market.

Presumably England take football proportionally more seriously but that hasn´t helped them. Well done on the cricket though. Always nice to see the Aussies knocked off their top perch. They help to give me an insight into why people often rejoice in AB failures.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Proportionally not but in absolute terms I think it´s the same.

10 % of the Chinese market is way more attractive than 100 per cent of the NZ market.

Presumably England take football proportionally more seriously but that hasn´t helped them. Well done on the cricket though. Always nice to see the Aussies knocked off their top perch. They help to give me an insight into why people often rejoice in AB failures.

Yeah it doesn't look like we're going to stay there long, first crushed by Pakistan and now losing to Sri Lanka..................in the cricket that is although it wouldn't surprise me if it was football as we are totally rubbish at that.

At least you made the quarters of the World Cup. We only were the only undefeated team at the football World Cup.

It pains me to agree with AWCA3F, but I agree that Gatland must get the win against the ab's this year or he must go. We have under acheived, rugby is our national game and our record against the SH is embarassing and recently Gatland has been to blame.

Running Dragon wrote:It pains me to agree with AWCA3F, but I agree that Gatland must get the win against the ab's this year or he must go. We have under acheived, rugby is our national game and our record against the SH is embarassing and recently Gatland has been to blame.

Guby, look at the players he's got, then his record against the sh. He's tactically inept against the sh sides, disrespects them in the build up doing the team talk for them. I'm not his biggest fan, he's been lucky to stumble into a golden generation and is under acheiving.

I'm not sure that's true Dragon. Let's face it, all the NH teams have underachieved & if rugby's your national game, why does football get much bigger gates?

I also don't think you can blame Gatland. On another thread we've been talking about it & consensus is that the problem's the NH style game, partly driven by our weather, which is much slower & tends not to develop the level of handling skills the SH guys take for granted.

How we overcome that, I don't know, but I don't think it's just a Wales or a Gatland thing.

Oddly enough, I believe Wales have a better chance of beating the AB's than Oz. Why? Wales now have a big, strong, skilful set of players all over the park. They will not be physically bullied up front, or in attack - by the AB's, as in the past. The AB's physically bully teams into submission. I dont think they will bully this Welsh side.

But, I think they could be overrun by Oz, who have the best set of backs on the Planet and a game plan to circumvent dominance by the Welsh pack. Run at Wales and they struggle. And Oz are still badly hurting after the RWC. They outplayed Wales in the 3rd-4th spot playoff also. Deans will have them ready and I'd fancy Oz to be World No.1 before long. Both NZ and SA are under new management and will both go through transition (player and coaching-wise) - in the coming season. Oz, on the other hand, are just getting into 2nd-gear under Deans.

Beware of Oz. I can see a 3-0 Test win v Wales tbh.

But, I think this is Wales best ever chance to beat NZ, at the MS, in November.

Gibson wrote:Oddly enough, I believe Wales have a better chance of beating the AB's than Oz. Why? Wales now have a big, strong, skilful set of players all over the park. They will not be physically bullied up front, or in attack - by the AB's, as in the past. The AB's physically bully teams into submission. I dont think they will bully this Welsh side.

But, I think they could be overrun by Oz, who have the best set of backs on the Planet and a game plan to circumvent dominance by the Welsh pack. Run at Wales and they struggle. And Oz are still badly hurting after the RWC. They outplayed Wales in the 3rd-4th spot playoff also. Deans will have them ready and I'd fancy Oz to be World No.1 before long. Both NZ and SA are under new management and will both go through transition (player and coaching-wise) - in the coming season. Oz, on the other hand, are just getting into 2nd-gear under Deans.

Beware of Oz. I can see a 3-0 Test win v Wales tbh.

But, I think this is Wales best ever chance to beat NZ, at the MS, in November.

Sometimes its like reading my own posts (apart from the 3-0 Oz defeat for us, hows about 2-1 Mr G)

Gibson wrote:Oddly enough, I believe Wales have a better chance of beating the AB's than Oz. Why?

I know this one, because Wales always struggle against SH teams away from home.

english warrior wrote:If the AB's put out a third team, with no caps between them, they will still rip Wales a new one!! thats how much of a challenge this Wales side are for them. Dear, dear me!

Makes a change. In the past I have always thought that you talk out of your little brown eye, now I see you talk out of your little green one.

????????????????????????

Two assholes is Guinness Book of Records stuff...especially colour coded ones.

Running Dragon wrote:It pains me to agree with AWCA3F, but I agree that Gatland must get the win against the ab's this year or he must go. We have under acheived, rugby is our national game and our record against the SH is embarassing and recently Gatland has been to blame.

Plank I disagree

RubyGuby wrote:

Gibson wrote:Oddly enough, I believe Wales have a better chance of beating the AB's than Oz. Why? Wales now have a big, strong, skilful set of players all over the park. They will not be physically bullied up front, or in attack - by the AB's, as in the past. The AB's physically bully teams into submission. I dont think they will bully this Welsh side.

But, I think they could be overrun by Oz, who have the best set of backs on the Planet and a game plan to circumvent dominance by the Welsh pack. Run at Wales and they struggle. And Oz are still badly hurting after the RWC. They outplayed Wales in the 3rd-4th spot playoff also. Deans will have them ready and I'd fancy Oz to be World No.1 before long. Both NZ and SA are under new management and will both go through transition (player and coaching-wise) - in the coming season. Oz, on the other hand, are just getting into 2nd-gear under Deans.

Beware of Oz. I can see a 3-0 Test win v Wales tbh.

But, I think this is Wales best ever chance to beat NZ, at the MS, in November.

Sometimes its like reading my own posts (apart from the 3-0 Oz defeat for us, hows about 2-1 Mr G)

Ruby,
I really like this Welsh side. Its far better than the other 2 SLAM winning sides imo. More complete, more intelligent, more mentally strong and certainly - far more powerful. I love watching ye play.
It has certainly bettered the NH team I admired more than any other. The 70's crew. I saw them play and man...
This side is not as sexy, but its just far more complete - in the pro-era.

Of course ye could beat Oz. I think ye could beat anyone. One Test for sure. Most possibly the 1st one.
1-2 to ye is also a possibility. But, I'm a realist.

For all my past ribbing of Welsh rugby and subtle WUM's for posters - specially when we play each other, now - you know.

Credu.

Gibson good post.

I agree...!

I think think this 6N showed that this Wales team still has room for a better performance. It wasn't by any means a dominant performance but it was a consistent performance throughout the tournament. That is good news in that Wales have still a lot of room for improvement in their game and can play much better. However, it also means that the team is still not able to play near its potential and when faced against a good side (like Australia who are world masters in making their weaknesses appear much smaller than they really are), will they be allowed to perform near their potential? In the 6N, you can be off your best game and still get through with a win. To beat the SH, normally you have to be at the top of your game to get a win. The question is, will your SH side allow Wales to play near the top of their game. They came close against SA and seemed a little more off against Australia.

So what do you think Kia. This year we have 7 tests against teams that have never beaten us, plus England and wales. I'm guessing at least one will be lost, based purely oin the number of matches and Hansens need to focus on the 4N above the other's.

Though England and Wales at AI time are most likely.

Perhaps Ireland at end of year, who will have learned a lot about AB rugby by then and probably gone close at least during the series and will be confident.

To be honest I'm amazed we even have these records in this day and age. In general everyone loses to everyone at the top at some point but to still have 3 major playing nations completely winless and Wales for 60 years is amazing. So many of those results were close and even 3 or 4 draws as well. Frankly we could do without sort of pressure...

Put it this way Taylorman. I wouldn't be surprised if we dropped a game against those sides and I wouldn't be surprised if we won them all. It works both ways that record in terms of motivation, which is why I think it´s tough to break the hoodoo. I think if the hoodoo is broken then more victories will come. But if you keep holding out against a team, psychologically it has to have an effect on the opposition especially when the game comes down to the final quarter where we have won many games in the past. Wales have a new resolve but so far against NH teams. Let´s see if they can extend it further south.

True...lets...

and I thought post world cup it would be a quiet year relatively. The upcoming NH tours and the recent 6N has put some life back into the game I reckon.

So Com'n NH...don't let the team down...been a good start so far...

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Put it this way Taylorman. I wouldn't be surprised if we dropped a game against those sides and I wouldn't be surprised if we won them all. It works both ways that record in terms of motivation, which is why I think it´s tough to break the hoodoo. I think if the hoodoo is broken then more victories will come. But if you keep holding out against a team, psychologically it has to have an effect on the opposition especially when the game comes down to the final quarter where we have won many games in the past. Wales have a new resolve but so far against NH teams. Let´s see if they can extend it further south.

The man is right. Lets not pussey-foot around here.
Even if Wales do have the players to win v any SH side, it does not mean they wont carry the mental scars of their forefathers, going into the last quarter.

Forget that black shirt. Just play yer own game and do em.

Gatland, of all people, should know how to crack this mental-block. He'd love to shaft Hansen & Deans.

Think of his CV if he did.

Gibson wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

Gibson wrote:Oddly enough, I believe Wales have a better chance of beating the AB's than Oz. Why? Wales now have a big, strong, skilful set of players all over the park. They will not be physically bullied up front, or in attack - by the AB's, as in the past. The AB's physically bully teams into submission. I dont think they will bully this Welsh side.

But, I think they could be overrun by Oz, who have the best set of backs on the Planet and a game plan to circumvent dominance by the Welsh pack. Run at Wales and they struggle. And Oz are still badly hurting after the RWC. They outplayed Wales in the 3rd-4th spot playoff also. Deans will have them ready and I'd fancy Oz to be World No.1 before long. Both NZ and SA are under new management and will both go through transition (player and coaching-wise) - in the coming season. Oz, on the other hand, are just getting into 2nd-gear under Deans.

Beware of Oz. I can see a 3-0 Test win v Wales tbh.

But, I think this is Wales best ever chance to beat NZ, at the MS, in November.

Sometimes its like reading my own posts (apart from the 3-0 Oz defeat for us, hows about 2-1 Mr G)

Ruby,
I really like this Welsh side. Its far better than the other 2 SLAM winning sides imo. More complete, more intelligent, more mentally strong and certainly - far more powerful. I love watching ye play.
It has certainly bettered the NH team I admired more than any other. The 70's crew. I saw them play and man...
This side is not as sexy, but its just far more complete - in the pro-era.

Of course ye could beat Oz. I think ye could beat anyone. One Test for sure. Most possibly the 1st one.
1-2 to ye is also a possibility. But, I'm a realist.

For all my past ribbing of Welsh rugby and subtle WUM's for posters - specially when we play each other, now - you know.

Credu.

Many thanks for a well thought out posting.
This Welsh side does not get my heart racing like the 70's boys but they have a determined professional approach which will look good in the record books.
Being a dinosaur,I know which side I would rather pay money to watch,mind.

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Many thanks for a well thought out posting.
This Welsh side does not get my heart racing like the 70's boys but they have a determined professional approach which will look good in the record books.
Being a dinosaur,I know which side I would rather pay money to watch,mind.

Aye but we aren't going to see that type of rugby again mate...

Sad days, but bright ones too, maybe we can maintain a position like we did in the seventies within the modern game...?

It does say a lot for our coaches in that we now have the 3N and 6N as well as the wcup winning coaches- well, one of them. Hansen though has not won tests as a head coach so with Sth africa we start on the back foot a little.

But hopefully when the gatland and Deans road trips are over those countries will be able to fill the gaps with local coaches or it will be wasted a little.

These guys are bringing the basis of the NZ game to those countries where hopefully where its successful it is being replicated downstream. Otherwise the switch back to a local coach will confuse. More so in the north than oz as i think its deans that is coaching the ozzie way with the talent he has.

Taylorman wrote:It does say a lot for our coaches in that we now have the 3N and 6N as well as the wcup winning coaches- well, one of them. Hansen though has not won tests as a head coach so with Sth africa we start on the back foot a little.

But hopefully when the gatland and Deans road trips are over those countries will be able to fill the gaps with local coaches or it will be wasted a little.

These guys are bringing the basis of the NZ game to those countries where hopefully where its successful it is being replicated downstream. Otherwise the switch back to a local coach will confuse. More so in the north than oz as i think its deans that is coaching the ozzie way with the talent he has.

Well Said mate..!

I think we are all very grateful for the kiwi impetus. Has put our game back on track from the bottom up.

It'll be interesting to see where Wales go from here. They have potential, but we know, from history, that winning a grandslam doesn't equate to competativeness at the top level.

Whilst, no one really debates they were the best team in the tournement, it was still close. It will be interesting to see how they go next year. They have a real chance this year to gain at least one win over the SH teams, particularly at the end of the year.

I think a win away should be seen as a success. I think people forget how big an achievement it is to win on the opposite hemisphere. Wales sole victory against tri nations sides playing away (i.e. excluding the 87 wc) was against the woeful wallabies (so named because they were so poor at the time). The average score is 29-11. Of the home nations only England have had much success (much of it doing SCW reign) and they've still struggled to win about 20% of their games.

I think the end of year tours are real chance for Wales. A victory should be seen as a success (because they don't happen often). Victory over NZ and Australia would be great for Wales. It would show a step forward.

I think the real test in may ways will be next 6 nations. This is a tournement wales competes in every year against the same teams. it's a yardstick for them. To show real progress they need to back up this seasons results, with a top 2 finish. For me that's the challange, especially without their coach/manager.