Who will be the Current World Champion's biggest challenge in 2012.

I thought this would save time, pick the team that you beleive will be the All Blacks biggest challenge this year.

Now, that's ruined it! we're all going to have to be honest & admit that it's SA or Oz

Who are the current WC's?

Must have been a non event for me to miss that one!

HERSH wrote:Who are the current WC's?

Must have been a non event for me to miss that one!

Oh, come on Hershy, if that is your attempt at a wind up it is ill conceived, poorly executed and frankly just an old tired cliche.

wickedwasp wrote:Now, that's ruined it! we're all going to have to be honest & admit that it's SA or Oz

honesty, since when did the posters on V2 allow honesty to cloud their bias.

Went for SA, could have gone for Australia but... Everyone else is just gash.

I don't wind anyone up, I post what I think.

It was the worst RWC ever in terms of quality shown on the pitch from all teams.

The minnows played good rugby.

To be honest, you rarely see good rugby at the RWC. Everybody's trying too hard not to lose.

I went for SA. I have a feeling they are going to be pretty awesome this year. I'm backing them for the championship too.

I also don't agree about the world cup. I thought there was some really good quality rugby played. It just wasn't played by the teams you would expect to be playing it.

SA for me, although both welsh and english posters are bigging up there chances i think the 4n will show there is still a gap in quality,intensity and pace of SH and NH rugby

I went for Oz - sorry Biltong, but they're a settled side & you've got a brand new coach.

I can see SA, Aus, Eng and perhaps even Wales pushing the AB's this year and certainly gaining the odd scalp or 2. Dare I say that that the AB's had the rub of the green at the RWC and maybe being over-vaunted by the cliche loving rugby public.

Wales at the MS I think.

Not sure any of the above will give the AB's that much bother to be honest.

England and SA are unknown entities. No one knows who will be coaching England or who will be the players or the style for either side.

Wales and Oz are more settled and have already played plenty of good rugby. Oz currently the better team out of the two if they carry on where they left off in 2011.

SA are sure to be back to their best, great players coach and tough place to win away.

I'd give SA, Oz and Wales and Ireland a shot at the ABs. England not a chance until we see who the new coach is how they play and if they can score tries after struggling to do so under their current regime.

Why is there no option for NZ Biltong? The biggest hurdle the current World Champs - devalued World Cup but still a World Cup - will face I think will be from themselves. How to stay at the top when you´ve reached the summit. It´s really cold up there and the air is thin.

After that I think Ellis Park will be our biggest challenge. We fail there more often than not.

I though about that, but it is not a credible option. It has to be an opposition.

If none of those learned anything from watching France play New Zealand at the WC final - then perhaps many of them should just disband.

France cobbled together something that almost worked from the detritus of an imploding team who hated their Head coach. France have done nothing spectacular since and, in truth, did nothing all that spectacular in the final either.

There are sides from biltong's list that just won't have enough quality in it to threaten the All Blacks. But there are quite a few that are professional enough and smart enough to learn lessons.

England will have a go. Wales will have a go. SA and Australia will always have a go.

biltongbek wrote:I though about that, but it is not a credible option. It has to be an opposition.

I know mate. Only kidding. Steve Hansen for the same reason does not qualify.

No Ireland on your list SecretFly? Historically that´s understandable but that England loss seems to have really knocked the wind out of you Irish posters.

Nah things have been on the skids for a while Kia, the England game was the final (painful) nail in the coffin. Chickens coming home to roost.

Here lies Irish rugby. RIP.

I went for the Aussies. Would like to say Wales but my arrogance hasn't quite stretched that far yet. Maybe if we win the series Down Under my vote will change.

Sydney is no fortress like Ellis Park Knowsit. If it were Suncorp, maybe, because we usually find it tougher playing there or the scores are much closer. But Ellis Park is a veritable graveyard for touring AB teams. We do fine at Soccer City but Ellis Park is more a House of Pain than Carisbrook is for SA. The Aussies haven´t beaten us at home for quite some time. They are deservedly the favourites based on their 3N success. Forget the World Cup. It´s a new year and new challenges. None of this peaking muck. Try to win every game.

I am really curious as to how Argentina´s introduction will go to the 4N. (I refuse to call it that stupid name.) Most are writing them off. I think they have a surprise or two in them, especially at home.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Sydney is no fortress like Ellis Park Knowsit. If it were Suncorp, maybe, because we usually find it tougher playing there or the scores are much closer. But Ellis Park is a veritable graveyard for touring AB teams. We do fine at Soccer City but Ellis Park is more a House of Pain than Carisbrook is for SA. The Aussies haven´t beaten us at home for quite some time. They are deservedly the favourites based on their 3N success. Forget the World Cup. It´s a new year and new challenges. None of this peaking muck. Try to win every game.

I am really curious as to how Argentina´s introduction will go to the 4N. (I refuse to call it that stupid name.) Most are writing them off. I think they have a surprise or two in them, especially at home.

Kia, you can't forget the World Cup but use the fact that Oz are the Tri Nation champions as an argument. NZ are the world champions and Oz are the Tri nation champions, irrespective of how or who they beat to get those titles.

Historically Oz has struggled against new Zealand over the past 5 years, but NZ has a much closer record against SA. However both SA and NZ has new coaching staff and has lost some players.

SA is a total unknown currently, Oz is the most settled and NZ even though Hansen is new as head coach has been around for a while.

The reality is as much as we like debating these points, NZ aren't going to struggle at home, the only two possible matches they might lose is against SA or OZ, which I highly doubt.

Away from home chances are based on recent history and the fact that SA should in theory be better than under PDV even considering the retirements the only away match NZ might lose. If deans can somehow find a tight five that has at least some form of parity Oz might start improving on their record.

This is in no way a biased view, but I believe NZ will lose one match only this year and it will be at Ellispark.

Wales and england at home has not been a struggle for New Zealand for some time, and even with wales having shown they are the better team in the Six Nations, they could just as well have lost to Ireland and england weren't that far off either.

Ireland is in ned of an overhaul. scotland just doesn't have the talent, even with new guys like Gray, denton an rennie.

so there it is in a nutshell, NZ to lose one game this year.

Biltong I meant forget the World Cup not as a form guide but in terms of trophies. Australia have something in their cabinet we want. (Do they get to keep that 3N trophy forever now or will the engravers rename it now? I always thought it was crazily big.) Win every game. So what we won the World Cup. Win the 4N now and beat all the NH sides. That´s the greed of a NZ fan but also the expectations placed on the team. Just because we won the World Cup doesn't mean it cancels out the fact we lost the 3N. That insatiable desire for success never abates. I can see how that appears to be arrogance from the outside but those are the impossibly high standards we set our ABs teams. There´s never a let up.

I think Kaino and Thorn are big losses. I´m hoping though that we can find a better halfback than Cowan or Weepu to balance that out. That said, SA and Australia are the biggest rivals of NZ because they genuinely believe they can beat us. France fears us but that fear seems to work for them. It pushes them to limits they don't seem to find with other teams. There are many like Wales, England, Ireland or Argentina that are capable of beating us and the first two have indeed proved that but they need to be at their best to do so in order to place us under pressure. Too often we haven´t been consistently pressured by these teams and that pressure usually results in errors that can prove costly.

In the last two years Oz has done marginally better v NZ than SA. So I voted Oz. Plus they have one home game

They all have one home game Leinster.

So does SA and that´s a far more difficult away ground than Sydney. La Plata is at least the closest to Buenos Aires to cut down on travel time.

SA in Ellis Park.

No doubt in my mind.

Kia, so how exactly does the AB's record at Ellis Park look?

NZ beat the Boks home and away often enough don't they? True the Boks have won in NZ recently and travelling to SA is a fairly regular stumbling block for NZ by their standards. If it was still the 3N format and three tests each I might agree but it now being two with the addition of the Pumas I have a feeling they'll do the double this year.

Certain stadiums are only fortresses to their full extent if the opposition mentality sees them that way. Is it as bad as the 20-year losing streak Wales had at Twickenham before winning two of our last four games there? It'd be disrespectful to not consider that the Boks will be boosted playing at a 'fortress' but the opposition psyche certainly forms part of the concept.

So overall I'm punting on the All Blacks losing in Sydney but winning everything else as it stands. Just a hunch

New Zealand has won 3/11 at Ellispark

The thing you have to realise about Ellis Park is that it is more than home advantage than say Twickers against Wales. It is high altitude and there is no equivalent in NZ. So it´s not just about NZ playing SA away that´s challenging. It´s playing in conditions that many in the Boks team are used to and NZers don´t have much experience in. Name me any other park in the world where the ABs have such a miserable record. They´ll probably be in SA and on the high veld but I´ll let my stats buddy do the research for that one!

If you was talking NH teams, i would like to think that England could cause the Albs Trouble.

If you was talking SH teams, then i would say possibly Australia. They are the only SH team that do not have a new coach.

[quote="biltongbek"]

kiakahaaotearoa wrote: but I believe NZ will lose one match only this year and it will be at Ellispark.

I've voted that as the most likely. Sydney would be next. Deans has made NZ public enemy no.1 with the Bledisloe cup the primary goal for the year. Sydney won't need to be a fortress for that kind of motivation. Make no mistake Kia the Sydney test will be a biggie and could define Hansens year.

But at Ellis park its worth 10 points to SA even on a bad day. Its our toughest ground in the world in tests and my feeling is an unpredictable SA side- which we will get this year- is worse than what we've been used to last few years. That part worries me, and oddly Oz are now more predictable than SA this year.

Fair enough, that does tip the scales in SA's favour.

Still, I'm going with my stupid baseless gut feeling on this one. Believe

I have no doubt Sydney will be a huge ask. But Ellis Park is a much tougher proposition. I agree this SA side is unknown and scary because players like DuPlessis should have been in the side before and there are plenty of options to cover other senior players but I fear they will leave a bigger hole.

Make no doubts about it, this is a really tough year for NZ and I wouldn´t have it any other way. Nothing keeps your performances honest than thinking you might lose or at least hearing people say you might well lose. At least for the ABs.

To be honest I don't think there will be a drop in quality from the Boks becuase of the retirements.

John Smit is replaced with Bismarck, who in most pndits eyes have been better than Smit for a few years now, Matfield is replaced by Bekker, who Matfield himself rated better than himself. Du Preez since his shoulder injury in 201 has never been that good again, so Hougaard or even Dewald Duvenhage in my opinion brings much of the same to the game, perhpas not exactly the same control, but more unpredictability which in my view we need more.

Bakkies has not been at his best, so whether Elstad or Juandre jruger takes his place, we'll still be strong in the line outs

The rest are pretty much the same

Fourie is a big doubt now he´s off to Japan. He´s the hardest to replace if he doesn´t play.

I am sure he'll be back, apparently it is in his contract for the tests.

I rather fancy Argentina away. The ABs have a tendency towards complacency.

biltongbek wrote:To be honest I don't think there will be a drop in quality from the Boks becuase of the retirements.

John Smit is replaced with Bismarck, who in most pndits eyes have been better than Smit for a few years now, Matfield is replaced by Bekker, who Matfield himself rated better than himself. Du Preez since his shoulder injury in 201 has never been that good again, so Hougaard or even Dewald Duvenhage in my opinion brings much of the same to the game, perhpas not exactly the same control, but more unpredictability which in my view we need more.

Bakkies has not been at his best, so whether Elstad or Juandre jruger takes his place, we'll still be strong in the line outs

The rest are pretty much the same

absolutely agree with you there Biltong given its more likely better players have been waiting in the wings too long anyway. Plus the motivation a new group coming into this most precious set up will more than match the loss of experience. Its much more exciting seeing one of your own blast on to the world stage for the first time and even hardened fans would have to admit that's been a rarity for SA last 3-4 years with even the brightest lights- lambie, Hougaard, Du Plessis getting snuffed out by the older hands (old in experience and lack of freshness, something new- not in age). Du Preez, Steyn and Smit particularly were for me a waste of space last year if I'm being honest, nowhere near their best.

Biltong

Please leave me my delusion that we're coming to face a weakened SA side under new leadership. Otherwise, it's just too depressing!

Being biased I have gone for my boys at the MS.NZ's two superstars are knocking on a bit and they still have not found a decent 9.
Wales will have nothing to lose and injuries permitting(damn,that's the pessimist in me!)will give them a right go.
NZ performing the haka on Pen y Fan and having to make their way to the stadium on foot will not do us any harm!!!!!

Taylorman wrote:absolutely agree with you there Biltong given its more likely better players have been waiting in the wings too long anyway. Plus the motivation a new group coming into this most precious set up will more than match the loss of experience. Its much more exciting seeing one of your own blast on to the world stage for the first time and even hardened fans would have to admit that's been a rarity for SA last 3-4 years with even the brightest lights- lambie, Hougaard, Du Plessis getting snuffed out by the older hands (old in experience and lack of freshness, something new- not in age). Du Preez, Steyn and Smit particularly were for me a waste of space last year if I'm being honest, nowhere near their best.

Yes steyn in particular weren't confident at all last year and it showed in his general control durinf gameplay and his tactical kicking. As we saw he seems to have gained in confidence and with hougaard settling inside him if they were the combination Meyer would select then it would at least bring more unpredictability than de PReea and an of form Steyn.

I am still however hoping that Lambie gets to partner Hougaard. In my view they can become the most exciting half back combination SA has had in the pro era.

Add Frans Steyn at 12 and Jaque Fourie at 13 and we will have one of the most solid in defence midfields in world rugby. Steyn with breaking the line and offloading to Jaque Fourie will give me hours of viewing pleasure.

Who would not fear or respect

Hougaard
Lambie
Steyn
Fourie?

wickedwasp wrote:Biltong

Please leave me my delusion that we're coming to face a weakened SA side under new leadership. Otherwise, it's just too depressing!

Sorry mate, I am just working it all out in my mind, it is however second guessing Heyneke Meyer at the moment.

Portnoy wrote:I rather fancy Argentina away. The ABs have a tendency towards complacency.

How so Portnoy? I'd say with a win percentage like NZ's complacency comes into the equation a lot less frequently than other teams.

I'd say SA in Soweto would be the toughest then Sydney. Wales will be the hardest AI game for NZ. I can see Argentina knocking Aussie over at home and giving both SA and NZ a run for their money. What's the go with Hernandez? Is he recovering? I'd love to see him and Carter go at it.

I think SA will be the strongest side and I also think we really need to pull finger to avoid a 3rd placing. Australia really wants the Bledisloe and I can see them getting it too. SA have a coach who knows what he's doing, and with retirements making decisions PDV didn't want to make he'll have a good looking team. Bismarck Bekker and Alberts/Burger/Brussow/Smith looks pretty formidable. Biltong what's the go at 12? I'd drop JDV at the mo his impact's becoming less and less.

Disney the match will be at ellispark not soweto, and Frans Steyn's conract is ending with Racing Metor, he has been offered a contract with the shraks but it seems Racin wants to renew his contract, he said on twitter he will have decided by the end of the week.

I am sure he will be available for the Boks either way. His performance in the RWC will convince Meyer to select him even if he stays in France.

Yeah I like him at 12 mate.

I was sure that Soweto was going to get the AB test! You positive? Either way we have a kaak record in Jozi. We should never have gotten out of jail in 2010.

Yeah and I fully blame Morne steyn for that loss.

disney just checked you are correct, the match is at the calabash.

My apologies.

No worries mate.

I actually put that down to Israel Dagg's great knowledge of the rules. If he hadn't done so it would have been a 22 instead of a scrum back.

There was a forward pass in the buildup to McCaw's try too remember. You can have it back if we can have another certain forward pass back if you like...