Taking the upset, Murray over Nadal

First topic message reminder :

Rafa I think is still stuggling to find his best tennis in Miami. I feel like Andy is on the cusp of getting over the hump. We have grumblings from Nadal about the knee, which is most disconcerting considering the oncoming clay court season, the most important stretch of the season for Nadal. I believe that Andy and Novak will fight it out in the final. Andy ofcourse has to hit a high percentage of first serves like many players that basically dictates how effective he will be as his second serve is just not a very good shot. Murray will also have to be aggressive from the get go with the forehand. Nadal has owned Andy of late but I think Murray is in better form, Nadal looks out of sorts and if he does have knee problems and isn't able to turn in massive points in the clay court season he might be in trouble in the points race. There seems to be an unease about nadal and his camp nowadays. Not like the turmoil of 09 but there seems to be some angst coming out of that camp right now.

Positively 4th Street wrote:Those I would like to hear. Are you an animated watcher? Does the air turn "bleu"?

Rarely actually. It has to be an epic match.

well I hope Andy does some more "thinking" before the match

A defeat here for Nadal and he will be feeling the pressure going into the Clay season.

Novak is playing his best tennis so far this year. Federer more importantly has shown form on outdoor courts in slower conditions. I think for a long time Nadal might not be the instant favourite for all the Clay court events.

A Murray win in Miami makes it all the more interesting.

For me Nadal's best surface is now slow hard court, not clay. Especially if they use Babolat's FO11.

Many a mickle maks a muckle...

Nice jinx attempt here to help your 2nd favourite player.

I think Nadal in 3 but I hope for Murray to pull something out the big as his matches with Djokovic are more watchable than Nadal's.

The Tipsy match does not inspire much confidence in Murray.

Nadal struggled against Tsonga, but did come through. He will probably squeak by Murray (WTF SF anyone).

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Nice jinx attempt here to help your 2nd favourite player.

I think Nadal in 3 but I hope for Murray to pull something out the big as his matches with Djokovic are more watchable than Nadal's.

Probably being a bit dense due to lack of sleep but I didn't get who was jinxing whom?

laverfan wrote:The Tipsy match does not inspire much confidence in Murray.

Nadal struggled against Tsonga, but did come through. He will probably squeak by Murray (WTF SF anyone).

too true, LF, too true

laverfan wrote:The Tipsy match does not inspire much confidence in Murray.

Nadal struggled against Tsonga, but did come through. He will probably squeak by Murray (WTF SF anyone).

If Murray starts to lash at the ball early in rallies he will lose, but I just have a feeling that Murray will improve on that below par peformance against Tipsy. I have a feeling Murray will attack the FH as it seems to have lost it's potentcy.

The OP is picking Murray to win, as a nice jinx attempt to have Nadal in the final.

I'll be watching the over 50's netball before am watching another Nadal Djokovic clash.

who can say... it's going to be more interesting than a final with either against the Djoker in my view.

I really found that AO SF painful to watch and the other permutation has been done to death recently.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:The OP is picking Murray to win, as a nice jinx attempt to have Nadal in the final.

I'll be watching the over 50's netball before am watching another Nadal Djokovic clash.

aaaah ok...

lol @ over 50s netball!

Ha ha! What a party atmosphere on this thread...

Anyway looks like Murray may well get lucky again as it appears he will be playing an injured Nadal.

"I have problems on my left knee, that's the thing. I'm not feeling great," said Nadal, who has lost three Miami finals. "I don't know what's gonna happen in the next match, because gonna be a big match against one of the toughest opponents on tour.

"Probably I don't arrive in my perfect conditions to that match," said the No. 2

http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20120329/Nadal_worried_about_left_knee

Rumour has it he was unable to practise yesterday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/atptour/2366855/Lame-Nadal-vows-to-play-on.html

I know what Lendl would say

Anyway looks like Murray may well get lucky again as it appears he will be playing an injured Nadal.

You're really filling urself in with glory making comments like that when you know 99% of people hate to see injury excuses.

Luck has nothing to with the outcome of the result HE.

Both players are suffering physically hence why it is interpretted as a contest that will sway either way which is why many fancy Murray.

I won't be drawn into the whole who I want to win saga and why for and stuff.

Let's not polarise the niggles the players have and just hope they can put in a performance worthy of a semi final!

hawkeye wrote:

Anyway looks like Murray may well get lucky again as it appears he will be playing an injured Nadal.


Rumour has it he was unable to practise yesterday.

HE, can you please let Nadal know that the whole world can see through him. Rumour has it: Enough is enough!

I thought having February off was to rest his shoulder - the one that made him feel it was impossible to do well at the AO

How did his chronic tendonitis flare up in his time off.

Perhaps Nadal should be campaigning for a longer schedule - he injured shoulder in break before Christmas (or was it before - so many ailments, so hard to keep track!) and now he has done his knee in during February despite taking the month off to recuperate and practice. He would appear to be safer on the tour!

I am really sorry Nadal fans - some of whom are amongst my favourite posters - for being so negative today (again), but he sort of asks for it by continually bringing this stuff into the public arena - more than any other player before or since. It's really hard to stay topical and not talk about this stuff!

As Lendl would say, there will be no pictures next to the scorecard!

I reckon any player hearing Rafa say he's not 100% will think: "That means he'll come out all guns blazing." Wonder how Rafa will describe his condition if he REALLY got injured. If they cut off one of his legs I would still make him a marginal favourite for the French. Cut off both legs and he might only make the semis.

How did his chronic tendonitis flare up in his time off.

TP,

Something as basic as walking can even put strain on this condition.

It is a chronic and permanent condition.

If anything I would be more inclined to how he sustained a shoulder injury prior to Slam event which he managed to reach the final of.

sirfredperry wrote:I reckon any player hearing Rafa say he's not 100% will think: "That means he'll come out all guns blazing." Wonder how Rafa will describe his condition if he REALLY got injured. If they cut off one of his legs I would still make him a marginal favourite for the French. Cut off both legs and he might only make the semis.

I'm with you sirfred - I would put money on a one legged Rafa at RG!

I always worried that Murray was a little credulous as far as the Humble One was concerned, but I am sure Ivan the Terrible will leave him in no doubts that Nadal will be as dangerous as ever today.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

How did his chronic tendonitis flare up in his time off.

TP,

Something as basic as walking can even put strain on this condition.

.

You cannot be serious LK. Mind you, if it's walking into a chair in a hotel lobby in Australia, then...everything is possible !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/atptour/2366855/Lame-Nadal-vows-to-play-on.html

^^ this is from 2007. We've been listening to the same broken record for 5 years!!!!

noleisthebest wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

How did his chronic tendonitis flare up in his time off.

TP,

Something as basic as walking can even put strain on this condition.

.

You cannot be serious LK. Mind you, if it's walking into a chair in a hotel lobby in Australia, then...everything is possible !

Your call NITB. It came from a doctor I spoke to recently who is fond of tennis. You are more than welcome to argue with him if you want.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

How did his chronic tendonitis flare up in his time off.

TP,

Something as basic as walking can even put strain on this condition.

It is a chronic and permanent condition.

If anything I would be more inclined to how he sustained a shoulder injury prior to Slam event which he managed to reach the final of.

Legend - I have come to the conclusion that you're a very nice person and I'm a cynical ol' wotsit I'm afraid.

Maybe he has an ache or two, but very little to play as he does and no more than a lot of players are coping with day in and day out. Perhaps he has a very low pain threshold - one where you think you have a broken foot but the MRI can't even find a tweaked ligament - I would sure hate to see him with man flu - never mind, at least he will never have to have babies!

I just don't believe him anymore

time please wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

How did his chronic tendonitis flare up in his time off.

TP,

Something as basic as walking can even put strain on this condition.

It is a chronic and permanent condition.

If anything I would be more inclined to how he sustained a shoulder injury prior to Slam event which he managed to reach the final of.

Legend - I have come to the conclusion that you're a very nice person and I'm a cynical ol' wotsit I'm afraid.

Maybe he has an ache or two, but very little to play as he does and no more than a lot of players are coping with day in and day out. Perhaps he has a very low pain threshold - one where you think you have a broken foot but the MRI can't even find a tweaked ligament - I would sure hate to see him with man flu - never mind, at least he will never have to have babies!

I just don't believe him anymore

Thanks TP

When he goes 'ouch' I tend to wait and see which body part it is. For example the shoulder. No-one in their right mind would risk prolonging an injury or further damaging a body part so crucial to the game of tennis like the shoulder. The logic was bizarre. I will take February off, but play a Slam? That was as crazy as bat crap.

When it comes to his knees I believe it when he says he has niggles and pain with them. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with arthritis in his knees as that is the body part that takes the most impact of his style of play.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

How did his chronic tendonitis flare up in his time off.

TP,

Something as basic as walking can even put strain on this condition.

.

You cannot be serious LK. Mind you, if it's walking into a chair in a hotel lobby in Australia, then...everything is possible !

Your call NITB. It came from a doctor I spoke to recently who is fond of tennis. You are more than welcome to argue with him if you want.

I've got tendonitis in my left knee and it only flares up when I cycle A LOT pushing a serious gear, so say hello to your doc for me

I always worried that Murray was a little credulous as far as the Humble One was concerned, but I am sure Ivan the Terrible will leave him in no doubts that Nadal will be as dangerous as ever today.

Murray is not that soft in the head like he needs Lendl to tell him that.

He's probably learnt that by playing in the juniors and seeing how players fake it.

time please wrote:



I just don't believe him anymore

you mean, Enough is....

hawkeye wrote:
Anyway looks like Murray may well get lucky again as it appears he will be playing an injured Nadal.

Has Nadal ever lost a match solely because his opponent played better?

I like Nadal, but I'm getting really bored of hearing about an injury before big matches! I mean, it's the same every time!

Big match for Murray. He has essentially already proved he can beat the worlds best reasonably regularly at these events... But it needs to become more of a habit. Nole turned round the Nadal rivalry at masters and 500 level events and was able to take that form into the Wimbledon final.

I think Murray is (finally) on the right track in terms of the way he is trying to play now, and I fancy him to win tonight.

Like the boy who cried wolf, at the end Nadal might be really injured but no-one will believe him.

not my original research but interesting, perhaps?

http://www.tennisinsight.com/injuries.php

A list of injuries on the tour. Nadal is not on it.

reckoner wrote:

I have a cheeky bottle of Monbazillac that's go well with some rilletes and a stonking new world Pinot Noir, but sadly no Bourgogne...

Moonballzillic? Quite apt wine to go with the match.

noleisthebest wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

How did his chronic tendonitis flare up in his time off.

TP,

Something as basic as walking can even put strain on this condition.

.

You cannot be serious LK. Mind you, if it's walking into a chair in a hotel lobby in Australia, then...everything is possible !

Your call NITB. It came from a doctor I spoke to recently who is fond of tennis. You are more than welcome to argue with him if you want.

I've got tendonitis in my left knee and it only flares up when I cycle A LOT pushing a serious gear, so say hello to your doc for me

Nadal has it both knees NITB. I am sorry you have it. I feel sorry for any poor soul who suffers any persistent injury.

djlovesyou wrote:

reckoner wrote:

I have a cheeky bottle of Monbazillac that's go well with some rilletes and a stonking new world Pinot Noir, but sadly no Bourgogne...

Moonballzillic? Quite apt wine to go with the match.

Novak would have took similar to that to get through Ferrer, Monaco and whoever the opponent is in the final.

He would fall asleep playing these pushers if sober.

I feel sorry for any poor soul who suffers any persistent injury.

even Hawkeye?

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

I feel sorry for any poor soul who suffers any persistent injury.

even Hawkeye?

I have my limits

djlovesyou wrote:

reckoner wrote:

I have a cheeky bottle of Monbazillac that's go well with some rilletes and a stonking new world Pinot Noir, but sadly no Bourgogne...

Moonballzillic? Quite apt wine to go with the match.

lol

djlovesyou wrote:

reckoner wrote:

I have a cheeky bottle of Monbazillac that's go well with some rilletes and a stonking new world Pinot Noir, but sadly no Bourgogne...

Moonballzillic? Quite apt wine to go with the match.

Very good!

What happened to your old name anyway lk?

Who are you trying to dodge?

I had a bit of blow out and then upgraded

I really don't believe there is anything troubling Rafa physically - or certainly nothing that would hinder his determined efforts to get through tonight. And I also discount this unspecified alleged "unease" affecting the Nadal camp as a whole. We've heard all this sort of talk so often before, and it invariably amounts to precisely zilch. (he might however be somewhat stressed mentally at the prospect of Novak very likely narrowing yet further what was once a comfortably-wide h2h margin ....)

I'm hoping Andy can get everything right and take this one. He's got all the shots and is a joy to watch when at his very best. It would be good not just for Andy but for the game too. Equally I won't be surprised (or especially disappointed) if Rafa does win - but I think right now a Djoker/Murray final holds far more interest and intrigue than another Djoker/Nadal slugfest.

In other news .....anybody going for an upset by Monaco ? Hmm .... didn't think so. But he's turned in some unexpectedly fine performances this week and I imagine it's quite some time since he last got this deep in a top quality tourney. If Novak is off colour for any reason, maybe Juan could find some extra-special magic .....?

legendkillarV2 wrote:A defeat here for Nadal and he will be feeling the pressure going into the Clay season. ...

My gut feeling is if Nadal loses here he will never win another match in his life.
It also tells me that if Murray loses here he will fire Lendl, roast him over a barbecue and then never win another match again.

But maybe I might have just misread my gut feeling. It might just be indigestion.

But who knows, there is much to ponder on and to be frank all this pondering is making me a little dizzy.

I think I might need to rest with all this effort and take another tea break. Hmmm there are still a few iced doughnuts left in the canteen.

Nore Staat - yep, we'll have to put all those strange ramblings in that last post of yours down to indigestion, dizziness or just a bizarre aberration. (you deserve the benefit of the doubt......)

Meanwhile I think one or two of those iced doughnuts you mention might just be the answer.... should help you get back on the rails ....

I think I might need to get my stomach pumped, one too many iced dougnuts

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Nice jinx attempt here to help your 2nd favourite player.

I think Nadal in 3 but I hope for Murray to pull something out the big as his matches with Djokovic are more watchable than Nadal's.

My second favorite player do you mean gasquet? I do believe as others have pointed out that Nadal is trying to change his game up and work on a few things. He has been going up the line with the forehand more and flattening it out. I think Nadal right now is in a transition period, maybe that is why I get the vibe of some uncertainty from his camp. Maybe part of the emphasis on his doubles play is a desire to work on the tools that he will need to add to his game. Now don't get me wrong I don't think he is going to try to change into Pistol Pete Sampras, but i do think Nadal realizes that he needs to strengthen his attacking to have a shot of unseating Djokovic. I think both he and Toni realize that plan A which worked for the first ten years of his pro career will still be successful against most of the tour most of the time, but that the bump and grind style of play will have a bit of diminishing returns in the long run, and even in the short run against Novak it isn't working.

Well, you were right kinda. He's withdrawn it seems.

Yes Dj, he didn't look at his best this week. And there was a lot of talk about his knee, plus I just look at Nadal and his body language and he just seems a tiny bit subdued and deflated by Nadal's standard.