Jack Johnson - How much did he enhance Dempsey's legacy?????
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Jack Johnson - How much did he enhance Dempsey's legacy?????
Up until the 1960's and after to a lesser extent there was a good deal of racism in American Society (A scourge on our history!!)....However certainly back in the pioneering days just decades after slavery we can judge moods at the time in the boxing fraternity by some of the pretty nasty things the likes Of Corbett, Sullivan and other pundit/writers were saying before Jeffries-Johnson....
The fact riots broke out after the result of that Match kind of shows the ugly face of white pride after Jeffries defeat...
Johnson dominated Boxing and was a huge figure and a monument of black pride at the start of the Century..The heavy title was at least back then the greatest prize in Sports....and how Johnson rubbed it in!!
Hence the arrival of Dempsey.....a gifted heavyweight who beat the charisma-less Johnson-conqueror Willard...
Dempsey was charismatic.....had a decent record...was no doubt explosive and was colorful!!!.......However he ruled in still very racially-sensitive times..
Much of Dempsey's achievements....talent and legacy has come from second-hand accounts from authors no doubt around to see Johnson's reign..which no doubt left it's mark and their accounts were past on no doubt to the next generation etc.........
How much did White-America (Az would love that!) need Dempsey to be as big a character as Johnson as If to restore pride and how much of the fact Dempsey's legend is so great!!! is to do with white historians needing to over-shadow Johnson whether sub-consciously or not...
Jack Johnson hugely divisive....... but how much did it help Dempsey's legend...
The fact riots broke out after the result of that Match kind of shows the ugly face of white pride after Jeffries defeat...
Johnson dominated Boxing and was a huge figure and a monument of black pride at the start of the Century..The heavy title was at least back then the greatest prize in Sports....and how Johnson rubbed it in!!
Hence the arrival of Dempsey.....a gifted heavyweight who beat the charisma-less Johnson-conqueror Willard...
Dempsey was charismatic.....had a decent record...was no doubt explosive and was colorful!!!.......However he ruled in still very racially-sensitive times..
Much of Dempsey's achievements....talent and legacy has come from second-hand accounts from authors no doubt around to see Johnson's reign..which no doubt left it's mark and their accounts were past on no doubt to the next generation etc.........
How much did White-America (Az would love that!) need Dempsey to be as big a character as Johnson as If to restore pride and how much of the fact Dempsey's legend is so great!!! is to do with white historians needing to over-shadow Johnson whether sub-consciously or not...
Jack Johnson hugely divisive....... but how much did it help Dempsey's legend...
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Jack Johnson - How much did he enhance Dempsey's legacy?????
Great article Truss, have to admit I'm not one hundred percent sure either way, myself.
As you say, the search for a 'great white hope' began the very moment Johnson dethroned Burns down in Sydney. Very reasonable to suggest that Dempsey might have been viewed as less of a 'saviour' had Johnson never won the title. Willard provided only a brief respite, and even the most ardent of white supremacists would have to admit that his reign as champion was anything but stellar. I imagine that plenty felt that Dempsey had restored some decency to the crown which Johnson had, in their eyes, damaged so much.
But on the other hand, maybe it would have benefitted Dempsey had Johnson never existed, or at least never reached a position of such notoriety. I get the impression that his failure to fight Wills and, to a lesser extent, Langford would probably have been forgiven a lot more readily than it has been, for instance - in much the same way that Jeffries never really takes a kicking for not facing Johnson while he wore the crown.
I suppose an exciting, charismatic, handsome and thrilling fighter like Dempsey, particularly as he emerged with a personality to match the feel of the 'Roaring Twenties', was always going to be big, big business, but I agree that there is a real argument for Johnson, in some way or form, helping him even further.
Good stuff.
As you say, the search for a 'great white hope' began the very moment Johnson dethroned Burns down in Sydney. Very reasonable to suggest that Dempsey might have been viewed as less of a 'saviour' had Johnson never won the title. Willard provided only a brief respite, and even the most ardent of white supremacists would have to admit that his reign as champion was anything but stellar. I imagine that plenty felt that Dempsey had restored some decency to the crown which Johnson had, in their eyes, damaged so much.
But on the other hand, maybe it would have benefitted Dempsey had Johnson never existed, or at least never reached a position of such notoriety. I get the impression that his failure to fight Wills and, to a lesser extent, Langford would probably have been forgiven a lot more readily than it has been, for instance - in much the same way that Jeffries never really takes a kicking for not facing Johnson while he wore the crown.
I suppose an exciting, charismatic, handsome and thrilling fighter like Dempsey, particularly as he emerged with a personality to match the feel of the 'Roaring Twenties', was always going to be big, big business, but I agree that there is a real argument for Johnson, in some way or form, helping him even further.
Good stuff.
88Chris05- Moderator
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Re: Jack Johnson - How much did he enhance Dempsey's legacy?????
Race and Dempsey are always a controversial issue - especially given Rickard's propensity for drawing the colour line with respects to Wills.
I can certainly see where you are coming from with your argument - lets face it - Willard never really captured anyone's imagination, even as Johnson's conqueror.
To my mind - Dempsey's race certainly helped his cause - but his style was the major reason for his success. He didn't deliver dull fights - and style matters to people. Especially when people are making ratings for all time lists.
It isn't as simple as saying that he was popular always either - lest we forget, opinion before the Carpentier fight was in favour of the war hero Carpentier, rather than the draft dodger Dempsey.
Anyway - to wrap up and avoid rambling - I reckon race played a part but Dempsey's style was the principle reason for his success.
I can certainly see where you are coming from with your argument - lets face it - Willard never really captured anyone's imagination, even as Johnson's conqueror.
To my mind - Dempsey's race certainly helped his cause - but his style was the major reason for his success. He didn't deliver dull fights - and style matters to people. Especially when people are making ratings for all time lists.
It isn't as simple as saying that he was popular always either - lest we forget, opinion before the Carpentier fight was in favour of the war hero Carpentier, rather than the draft dodger Dempsey.
Anyway - to wrap up and avoid rambling - I reckon race played a part but Dempsey's style was the principle reason for his success.
oxring- Moderator
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Re: Jack Johnson - How much did he enhance Dempsey's legacy?????
It is hugely difficult to say because what often gets lost in the sands of time is how hugely unpopular Dempsey was for large portions of his reign, the draft dodging tag was one he struggled to shake off for quite some years. I think with Jack he was fortunate on a number of things, came into the sport at a time there was a huge push to clear up the sports somewhat debateable legality and a promoter with the ambition, chutzpah and drive to take advantage of that, to have a fighter who was as ferocious and exciting as Jack must have seemed like manna from heaven to Rickard.
As Chris has alluded to though following Willard must have helped given he was a guy who showed possibly less interest in actually getting in the ring and defending the title of any other heavyweight in history. Interesting article though and a reasonable question I had not really thought about before.
As Chris has alluded to though following Willard must have helped given he was a guy who showed possibly less interest in actually getting in the ring and defending the title of any other heavyweight in history. Interesting article though and a reasonable question I had not really thought about before.
Rowley- Admin
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