David Pickering / Welsh Rugby Union Interview

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/04/06/david-pickering-three-grand-slams-don-t-hide-major-problems-in-welsh-rugby-91466-30708644/4/#ixzz1rIzf5EcF


David Pickering vows today that the WRU will fix the ailing regional game - and insists there is 100% commitment to retaining four elite teams in Wales.

In a wide-ranging interview, Pickering reflects on a decade as chairman of the governing body that has brought three Grand Slams and seen the way the game is run here transformed.

He also insists there will not be any complacency as the dust settles on the 2012 success under Warren Gatland.

Pickering also:

* Accepts there are genuine problems in the regional game and fears over financial sustainability;

* Gives the clearest indication yet that the WRU will not play hardball with the Lions over Gatland’s availability next season;

* Promises he will not “bankrupt” the Welsh game to stop players leaving for France;

* Outlines the astonishing reduction in the WRU debt from £72m in 2002 to its current level of £26m;

* Reveals how only a frantic phone call to Peter Hain, then a minister in Tony Blair’s Labour government, prevented the WRU from losing ownership of the Millennium Stadium just three years after it had been built;

* Expresses support for Gavin Henson following his sacking by the Blues, saying whether he plays for Wales again will be entirely down to Gatland.

As the most powerful man in Welsh rugby, Pickering has much to be pleased about - and a fair few things that will cause his brow to furrow.

T’was always thus in the down-one-minute-up-the-next world of professional sports administration, and in particular the roller-coaster ride that is the national sport of Wales.


Pickering presently finds himself steering the good ship WRU through calm waters, his chairmanship having entered a sunny phase thanks to buoyant business and commercial performance, and , of course, that third, thrilling Grand Slam of just three weeks ago.

The two are naturally interlinked, and provided they endure you can’t envisage a return to the darker, debt-riddled days of unwieldy committee-run administration that once made the WRU a laughing stock.

But, nevertheless, storms lurk - as they have always done. The Welsh regional game is reaching a tipping point, riven by financial belt-tightening, the departure of star players to cash-rich French clubs and an indifferent public voting with its feet.

A report by PriceWaterhouseCoopers into the game’s finances is due to be completed soon and, in its wake, a range of potential solutions will be discussed by the WRU and the regions, including the potential of dual player contracts being brought in, part-funded by both parties.

And there are other issues to be resolved that carry enormous potential consequences, such as when precisely Warren Gatland will be allowed to take over the Lions reins: as early as next September or after the autumn campaign which includes games against New Zealand and Australia?

Pickering is cheerful, engaging and amenable as he reflects on 10 years as WRU chairman as well as considering how best to tackle today’s pressing issues.

However, he is also forthright, clear in his thinking and apparently unwilling to accept fools.

Arrogance? There isn’t a hint of it. More a sense of responsibility and an utter craving for the success the national team has enjoyed of late to seep into all parts of our game.

Pickering’s tenure in the chairman’s role has seen some grim and, as he puts it, “frightening” lows that mean these better times will not be taken for granted.

GATLAND AND THE LIONS

“Listen, it is a point that will come out in negotiations between the two bodies.

“We have agreed as a board that Warren can coach the Lions if he is selected to do so and if he wants to.


“I’m a rugby person, and I think you have to see the big picture for our sport, the big picture for Wales.

“It is a bold step where we need to say to ourselves ‘This is a sporting decision, we are part of the Lions and the Lions is special. We want them to be the very best that they can be’.


“We shouldn’t hold people back, we shouldn’t stop their sporting ambitions, we should help them grow and develop and not be frightened of this.

“Let’s be bold and give the assistant coaches a chance to step up. Let’s develop people.

“That is the correct way and that is what we have done with our youngsters coming through.”

PUTTING RIGHT THE REGIONS

“At our national level we are punching above our weight and enjoying remarkable success.

“The issue is that the regions are in a competing market where football is strong and we have two clubs doing extremely well.

“So in at least two of our regions there has been a drop off in numbers and commercial income which has caused a problem.

“I think the regional structure has underpinned the national side, so it’s worked in terms of producing players.

“It’s also worked because the WRU has funded the academies so the conveyer belt is working.

“But the issue is one of the economics of the game. That is what we will now have to look at when we see the PriceWaterhouseCoopers report, how best to tackle that.

“Up to now that side has been controlled by the regional entities themselves, but now we have to look at the evidence and come up with the best solutions.

“But the regions and ourselves have never been closer and there is a real desire to work together.

“We should be confident and not fearful as we tackle this. But we have to face this head on. We’ve got to resolve it – and we will.

“We must look at the reasons why people aren’t going to watch games, even though two of the regions are doing well with their crowds - the Scarlets, for example, who have seen an increase.

“We know that Ospreys and Blues attendances are down and that the fact 20,000 people are watching football during a recession has something to do with it.

“But before we do anything we need to see all the relevant evidence and maybe see what costs we can save and how we can be smarter.

“There is no desire on our part to reduce the number of regional teams. We believe four is the right number to support the national team and the right number for development and to sustain the national side.


“Also, commercially we have signed up for four, so if we reduce the number of teams we reduce the amount of money we have coming in through broadcasting rights etc.

“So there is no benefit to us in reducing and as far as I am concerned there is no agenda to do so.”

WHY WALES IS POWERLESS TO STOP THE FRENCH PLAYER DRAIN

“As far as players leaving for France is concerned, I’m not going to bankrupt the Welsh Rugby Union to keep star players in Wales. End of.

“If a 26-year-old guy wants to leave for 800,000 Euros a year, then we can’t afford to match that. As I said, we are a sporting body but also a business and we cannot live outside our means.

“We will do our utmost to keep talent in Wales, especially the young talent, but we cannot pay stupid salaries with money we have not got. The French model is different and that is where the pressure is coming from.



“They have their municipalities, there is huge local government support, huge industrial resource support and a lot of very rich millionaires putting in huge amounts of money.

“We haven’t got that, nor has our economy.”

WHY WALES CANNOT COPY THE IRISH CENTRAL CONTRACTS MODEL

“What protects the Irish model is that they get their tax back when they finish playing, which is an Irish government policy which we can’t replicate here. There are huge tax benefits which is why no players ever leave their rugby.

“Also there is no VAT on sporting tickets, it’s a different model entirely.


“But we will look at all the different things possible and come to a solution for the good of the game. I won’t jump at a solution until everything has been evaluated.

HOW THE MILLENNIUM STADIUM WAS NEARLY LOST IN 2002

“BT owned a strip of land at the stadium, we were trying to do a deal with them but our relationship was extremely poor.

“We thought we’d done a deal to take out their debt then we got a call one Thursday from them telling us the deal was off and that they were going to sell their interest to a bank.

“That would have meant us losing control of the Millennium Stadium which left us extremely concerned.

“I phoned Peter Hain on that Thursday and he took the call at Paddington Station.

“I said ‘Peter, we are in a mess, we could lose the Stadium’.


“He asked me how he could help and I said ‘Could you please go and talk to Sir Christopher Bland – who was the chairman of BT at the time – and try to persuade him to do a deal with us?’

“He managed to do that and Sir Christopher instructed BT to do a deal with us.

“So we took BT out of the stadium, paid them off and managed also to do a deal with Barclays to take £10m off the debt.”

THE DRIVING DOWN OF WRU DEBT

“Our chief executive Roger Lewis has been extremely successful in putting in longer term planning. We have a five-year rolling plan now.

“We will have another hugely successful year this year and our bank debt now is down to £26.8m.

“It will come down significantly again this year. To bring it down to that from £72m in eight years is not bad by any standards.


“Last year I went to an IRB conference on the economics of the game and two unions were picked out as leading, as punching above their weight. They were New Zealand and Wales.

“That’s on and off the field. New Zealand won the World Cup and we’ve been champions of Europe three times in eight years.

“Then you look at what we have done with the business as well, it really is a testament.

“We also have a great partnership with the Welsh Government, our strategies are closely aligned.

“The 2002 reform that made us a modern corporate structure was massive, it was akin to making us like a local authority but one that is very sharp commercially.

“We are a sporting governing body but we also have to run like a business because without that the rugby cannot survive. Finances have to be right.

“That was the biggest challenge we had in 2002.”

DAVID MOFFETT AND THE REGIONAL RUGBY REVOLUTION

“Before regional rugby came about we were at a stage where we needed to appoint a lead executive and the bank were very strong observers on David’s appointment.

“At that time our borrowing was £72m and we were looking down a very long shotgun barrel.

“Moffett was a change manager and immediately set about cutting staff, trimming the business, getting rid of a lot of manpower.

“We set about restructuring the debt which presented huge problems.

“But regional rugby had to happen.

“We tried at successive AGMs to get it down to six clubs but we just couldn’t do it.

“So we changed the directors’ positions so they could pass governance laws that were sometimes unpopular but were needed for the benefit of the game.

“Regional rugby was necessary because we had to bring all our elite players together in a more professional environment.

“But I don’t think there is any doubt that it helped underpin the national team’s performance - results speak for themselves.”

WHY WALES MUST CONTINUE TO PLAY THE BEST SIDES

“I have always been of the view that if you are going to be the best, you’ve got to play the best, and do it more often than anybody else.

“So we have really pushed our fixture schedule that way which has helped the national team become better and also driven our revenue streams.


“Through that we have been able to put record sums back into the professional and grassroots game.

“Two years ago I had to convince the board that signing the participation agreement we currently have with the regions was the right thing to do, and that we could afford it.

“The only way to do it was to get an extra fixture, so I flew to South Africa, told the friends I have there that we needed a game and asked them to help us.

“That extra fixture is becoming part of our schedule and it is all about the best return for the use of the players.”

GAVIN HENSON

“I just wish Gavin the very best of luck.

“Obviously he’s had a troubled time but I’m sure he’ll reflect on what has happened.

“It’s down to him to correct it all for the benefit of him and his family.


“With the release from the Blues he’ll have to reflect on where he plays and what he does, but he has our best wishes. We hope he can restructure what he’s doing and contribute to Welsh rugby again.

“But in terms of playing for Wales the coach picks the team.”

Cheers AD

Interesting read

Think Welsh fans should get behind this guy and make 4 elite teams work.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Think Welsh fans should get behind this guy and make 4 elite teams work.

I agree.

Yup me too, though I think we'd be better off with 3 centrally contracted teams with the spare cash being pumped into the Premiership. Welsh teams always seem to have 1 arm tied behind their back when trying to compete outside international rugby.

Just be patient and the academies will provide

I don't know why they keep trying to claim credit for reducing the bank loan. It doesn't take a financial genius to divert cash away from the domestic game and give it to Barclays.

If they'd negotiated a 1/base loan before credit crunch and were now investing the surplus cash to earn 3-4% on a corporate bond - I'd be reluctantly impressed.

But just bowing to pressure from the bank - at a time when banks are receiving nothing but bad press? Just suggests Pickering is clueless and Lewis is spineless.

Compared to the people running the regions though, they are like Gates and Buffett.

Casartelli wrote:I don't know why they keep trying to claim credit for reducing the bank loan. It doesn't take a financial genius to divert cash away from the domestic game and give it to Barclays.

If they'd negotiated a 1/base loan before credit crunch and were now investing the surplus cash to earn 3-4% on a corporate bond - I'd be reluctantly impressed.

But just bowing to pressure from the bank - at a time when banks are receiving nothing but bad press? Just suggests Pickering is clueless and Lewis is spineless.

Compared to the people running the regions though, they are like Gates and Buffett.

This isn't the Apprentice is it?

So we will be keeping the 4 Regions and there will be no valleys rugby. Something most of us knew though.

Well he actually says they're going to maintain 4 regions, doesn't mention the current regions. Does this mean that a northern region would be at the expense of a southern? At the time he was talking about letting a southern region fold and having three rather than not adding one.

Hammer he means no change.

There will be 4 new regions.

Cardiff blue blues
Cardiff RFC
Cardiff
Glamorgan Wanderers

In the article Pickering says the WRU are committed to retaining 4 regions, but nowhere does he confirm what those teams will be. Roger Lewis stated last week that the Welsh regions need 'radical change'.

Pickering makes one fleeting reference to the Blues and the Ospreys but doesn't mention the Scarlets or the Dragons at all.

The Wales Online article drew a total of 23 comments, 12 of which were negative.

After three grand slams the national team retains huge public support. Few are interested in this regional/superclub shambles any longer, even in the towns where the teams are based.

Would be nice if, whatever 'radical change' the WRU implement, they manage to create a little bit of harmony in the domestic game.

Harmony would be the way forward. I can't see the regions disappearing as I think their benefits outweigh the negatives.

But the WRU could do a great deal to make them more successfully for both themselves and their own ambitions as well as for the national cause.

Casartelli - have you ignored the bit when he focuses on the positives and makes mention of Scarlets' increased attendances then?

I think it is pretty obvious which 4 Regions he is talking about after he mentions the hard work which went into creating those 4. Valleys rugby is a fantasy, no way would the WRU take the financial risk at this moment in time either. Blues just need to actually become a proper Region and the situation is sorted. But it won't stop Ponty fans from doing what they do best I bet.

rugbydreamer wrote:Casartelli - have you ignored the bit when he focuses on the positives and makes mention of Scarlets' increased attendances then?

Yep - sorry, I missed that. He makes a 5 word reference to the Scarlets increased crowds. Just prior to rambling about Henson for c.85 words.

Pickering has his priorities straight!

Casartelli wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:Casartelli - have you ignored the bit when he focuses on the positives and makes mention of Scarlets' increased attendances then?

Yep - sorry, I missed that. He makes a 5 word reference to the Scarlets increased crowds. Just prior to rambling about Henson for c.85 words.

Pickering has his priorities straight!

More like the journalist interviewing him has certain priorities.

Pickering is both arrogant and conservative but it is difficult to disagree with what he is proposing at the moment, and indeed I wouldn't want to - He is financially prudent and welsh fans have to sometimes accept the financial realities.We are producing very good players and perhaps may not have the financial clout to retain some of them. I'm not convinced that handicaps us that much at international level and actually see some benefits. The Ospreys are now playing as a "team" with a lot of young welsh talent, same goes for the Scarlets. The Blues need a management team first and we need to redistribute some players to strengthen the Dragons. If we have 4 good regions competing in the Rabo and a strong national side I believe the fans will start coming iof things are marketed appropriately, something welsh rugby teams are poor at due to their incestuous nature where you are likely to see an ex player or axxe licker employed to "market" the side etc

Casartelli wrote:I don't know why they keep trying to claim credit for reducing the bank loan. It doesn't take a financial genius to divert cash away from the domestic game and give it to Barclays .

If they'd negotiated a 1/base loan before credit crunch and were now investing the surplus cash to earn 3-4% on a corporate bond - I'd be reluctantly impressed.

But just bowing to pressure from the bank - at a time when banks are receiving nothing but bad press? Just suggests Pickering is clueless and Lewis is spineless.

Compared to the people running the regions though, they are like Gates and Buffett.

Considering the WRU are investing more money in grass roots rugby, the prem and academies than ever before and have cut the debt by £46m (judging on what Pickering said), I'm not sure where the cash has been diverted from the domestic game? Especially as during that time the regions have had 3 increases in the amount of money the WRU gives them.

It's true Pickering may have said more about G Henson than the Scarlets, but I'd find it pretty strange if Pickering had mentioned the Scarlets and how well they were doing when the Journalist had asked him about G Henson. (Would seem a little strange to mention in depth an individual region when talking about the regional tier as a whole and professional rugby in general)

The WRU's annual report for 2011 confirms that the amounts invested in the premiership and community rugby decreased in 2011.

Casartelli, you should also notice that revenue/profit was also down. In other words, the WRU just made less money than it did in 2010. They should release another Annual report in May, the 2012 one which should show an increase.

Morgannwg wrote:Casartelli, you should also notice that revenue/profit was also down. In other words, the WRU just made less money than it did in 2010. They should release another Annual report in May, the 2012 one which should show an increase.

Yes Morg however the profits ALWAYS drop every other season because the extra home 6 Nations game is worth about £3m on it's own. Also 2010 had the Lions tour which I understand made a few millions in profit divided between the 4 British countries. Things can also change quite drastically due to the June home game depending on whether it's South Africa or the Barbarians.

Yeah, Morg.