English Clubs in Europe - A review.

Harlequins
Home and away wins over AP rivals Gloucester, and a fine win in Toulouse the week after being thumped at the Stoop set Quins up nicely for a last round match. Win and a first HC 1/4 final since Bloodgate was guaranteed. Connacht had lost all 5 matches in the HC and were also on a long losing streak in the Rabo - surely nothing could go wrong? Any one who thought that had obviousley not seen the first round match where Quins were very lucky to sneak a win in the face of a magnificent second hald performance by the away team. In the rematch the Connacht back row completely dominated the breakdown. They were quicker, stronger and much more committed. Quins HC dreams were in tatters.
For the Amlin 1/4 final, Connor O'Shea chose to rest a couple of key players - perhaps showing his priorities lay in the AP. Few expected a Quins win, but no-one could have expected such a spineless display as they were hammered.

5/10


Saracens
Saracens did not make life easy in the pool stages for any fans with a heart condition. A good win at home over Treviso was followed by defeat in Biarritz. A pair of tight wins over Ospreys put the fans in good heart and the team at the top of the table. Another pair of narrow victories home to the French and away in Italy gave Sarries a home 1/4 final. Teams very rarely lose 1/4 finals at home. Clermont very rarely win away from home unless in Italy. Already Sarries fans were contemplating a Twickenham semi final, and who knows perhaps a return to SW London for the final? Sadly they were destroyed by Clermont who effectively out-sarried the Sarries.

6/10


Leicester Tigers
Put simply, away from home Tigers just were not good enough. They were hammered in France and the less said about Black Friday the better. Failure to get the TBP in Italy was typical of Tigers season. An inability to secure bonus points meant that 4 wins was insufficient for second place. No real consolation to see two teams from the group (teams they had beaten at home) win away 1/4 finals and stand just 80 minutes away from the final.

4/10


Northampton Saints
Played well at Thomond Park, losing to a ROG drop goal after an amazing example of ball retention from Munster. Mallinder's decision to replace the injured Ben Foden with an out of position George Pisi backfired dramtically on a wet and windy evening in the East Midlands. Rhys Priestland put on a masterfull display of tactical kicking as Scarlets effectively ended Saints campaign. Some semblance of revenge was gained at Parc y Scarlets but Munsters 50pts at Franklins Gardens relegated Saints to 3rd place in the table.

2/10


Gloucester
Perhaps unlucky to lose in Toulouse, Gloucester managed a fine win at home to the French champions and secured the double over Connacht. However poor performances against Quins, especially the first one at home, derailed their campaign.

3/10


London Irish
Before the campaign started, there must have been confidence that this was a group they could challenge in. It never happened for them. An ability to secure bonus points kept their hopes alive for longer than it should but with just 1 victory it was a poor campaign.

1/10


Bath
Will have felt unlucky to lose in Glasgow. The two thumpings received by Leinster should have reminded Bath fans just how far thety lag behind Europes elite.

1/10


Exeter Chiefs
Performed really well in qualifying for the Amlin 1/4 finals, scuring the double over Dragons and beating Perpignan in Devon. Bonus points were at a premium in a tough group, and Exeter had to face an away 1/4 final. A brave performance in Paris saw heartbreaking defeat in a game the could (should?) have won.

7/10


London Wasps
Decimated by injuries and fighting relegation, Wasps came so close to making the Amlin semis. They had a good qualifying campaign, managing to interrupt defeats in the AP with wins over Bayonne and Begles (admittedly two of the weaker French sides).

5/10


Newcastle Falcons
Qualifying from a group with Toulon in it was always going to be tough. However they did beat the French moneybags in the North-East.

4/10


Sale Sharks
Lost home and away to Brive and failed to get out of a group they would have felt was winnable.

3/10


Worcester Warriors
Briefly threatened Stade Francais at Sixways before succumbing. Managed to beat the Romanian and Italian club sides.

2/10

Agree with most of that LondonTiger but feel you are underestimating Clermont.

I don't think anyone will stop Clermont picking up the HC now.

You say teams very rarely lose at home in the HC quarter finals but so did Munster.

I would never underestimate Clermont - they have beaten us too many times for me to do that. Nor do I thing the Saracens squad/management underestimated them. The fans, yourself included, were very confident that this was a good chance to make the semi. It was - but Clermont showed they are not just a group of stars - but are a team. It was that collective desire to win and to defend their try line that made the victory so comprehensive.

And yes Munster did also lose a home 1/4 final.

The common link - both sides who won away 1/4 finals had learnt from their defeats at WR this season.

Its difficult to predict who will have the advantage in Clermont. Leinster are playing very well and I feel have enough to win away. On the other hand, Clermont are a very good side and with home advantage, could win. This semi is a 50/50 in my opinion. Would not be suprised if Leinster won there though. I don't think Clermont had to be that good to win on Sunday to be honest, Saracens just weren't good enough and were at their one-dimensional best. Hello, when you're 3 - 22 down with 10 minutes to play, battering away on the Clermont try line, where you've had no change all afternoon and wasting 4 or 5 minutes doing it, is simply dull play.

Very pleased to see Ulster win at Thomand Park. The damage was done in the first 20 minutes though. I think Ulster will win their semi comfortably. Edinburgh DID play well on Saturday, but Tolouse were frankly poor, Edinburgh flattered to decieve - in my opinion.

so I think it will be Ulster v .... Leinster in the final. with Leinster to win another HC final.

LondonTiger I don't think Leicester can take any credit for Clermont and Ulster's victories!

Yes Saracens were confident but I was very nervous. Real opportunity lost and simply shows that Saracens don't cut it at European level yet.

Agree that Clermont really played well as a unit.

Equo Troiano it's not 50/50 in my opinion. Seems like you always say the opposite of me just to disagree.

I agree though that Saracens were very one dimensional. Back to the drawing board. Clermont were very good though.

beshocked wrote:

Equo Troiano it's not 50/50 in my opinion. Seems like you always say the opposite of me just to disagree.

Er, no. Its a 50/50 match in my opinion. And I explained why. Don't flatter yourself.

A good all round assessment of how things panned out for the Aviva teams.
I wouldn't put it past tigers and sarries to be in the mix next year though.

Clermont very rarely lose in France yet it's a 50/50? That makes no sense. Clermont are the best side in France on form with a star studded squad. Though Leinster are quality an away trip to France should be too much.

Clermont to win the HC.

Ulster very very nearly beat Clermont in France in the groups - I think Leinster will beat them.

I think Leinster 'can' beat them and would do so fairly comfortably at home. However, at this juncture, I think both teams are evenly matched, with Clermont making up for any deficiencies they may or may not have with home advantage. Its too close for me to call. But something makes me think Leinster are going to do it.

I think you are being a bit harsh on the english teams specially Gloucesters who appart from losing twice to harlequins did nothing wrong and had a very good performance against Toulouse. It took a strange set of events to have both Gloucester and Harlequins eliminated from the Hcup as they were more deserving than Toulouse.
Leicester would have probably qualified from any other group and a QF for Saracens is still a progress from previous years (took some time for clermont to reach a semi...). the other ones in the HC did under perform though.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Ulster very very nearly beat Clermont in France in the groups

it was a close game with some debatable ref decisions but it's not like ulster missed a penalty on the last minute or a try that could have gave them the game ?

Clermont very very very very nearly beat Leinster in Dublin some time ago as well.
50/50 game for me, not much of a home advantage being in Bordeaux and not Clermont though.

whocares wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Ulster very very nearly beat Clermont in France in the groups

it was a close game with some debatable ref decisions but it's not like ulster missed a penalty on the last minute or a try that could have gave them the game ?

Clermont very very very very nearly beat Leinster in Dublin some time ago as well.
50/50 game for me, not much of a home advantage being in Bordeaux and not Clermont though.

True- although Ulster did have a scrum at the end when it was 19-15 which looked like it could win the match as Ulster's scrum was doing really well, there was also a penalty reversed because Muller said something to the ref- so it really was very close.

beshocked wrote:LondonTiger I don't think Leicester can take any credit for Clermont and Ulster's victories!

Oi, stop it. I am allowed to clutch at straws. The way both hammered us at home showed the real comparison of the clubs.

whocares wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Ulster very very nearly beat Clermont in France in the groups

it was a close game with some debatable ref decisions but it's not like ulster missed a penalty on the last minute or a try that could have gave them the game ?

Clermont very very very very nearly beat Leinster in Dublin some time ago as well.
50/50 game for me, not much of a home advantage being in Bordeaux and not Clermont though.

+1

I agree 50/50.

Man - for - man the squads are of similar quality. Leinster have that winning mentality in europe, which is counterbalanced by the match being in france.

Front Row - Clermont have a narrow advantage.
Second Row - Leinster better in the lineout, Clermont more physical
Back row - Leinster advantage.

Half Backs - Parra is (imo) best 9 in the world - just wish he would stop the histrionics. Brock James at his best is quality - but ever since that Aviva nightmare has been flaky.

Centres - Experience of Leinster and the exuberance of Clermont

Back 3 - Kearney imperious atm, Malzieu, Nacewa Sivivatu ooze class.

Think maybe your being a bit harsh on Saracens, they had a good campaign, but had a very poor Semi final.

Securing a home Q-final is a good achievment, the matter of there defeat tinges it slightly. but overall it can be looked back on as decent. 6.5-7/10.

Are you all sure you're not just saying that it is a 50/50 match simply to disagree with Beshocked? Or do you all know what you're talking about?

Kingshu I agree with London Tiger actually.

6/10 is fair. Saracens won a pool you would have expected them to.

Not a good campaign particularly as the quarter final was so poor.

Real opportunity blown as would have had home advantage the whole way.

The way I generally judged it was against winning the tournament being 10/10 and losing every match 0/10.

So Sarries got 5pts for each win and an extra pt for making the 1/4 finals.

Amlin varied slightly in that I gave limited credit to beating Italian club sides, but rewarded Exeter for coming out of a toughish group and challenging in their 1/4 final.

It was partically because Exeter Chiefs got 7/10, I thought Sarries deserved at least the same,

After all getting to the q-final of H-cup is better than 1/4 final in Almin.

I know we expected less of Exeter, so to come out of a tough group gives them credit, but don't think it more than Sarries. However these things always generate a difference in opinion, and one point difference isn't worth arguing over

Equo Troiano wrote:Are you all sure you're not just saying that it is a 50/50 match simply to disagree with Beshocked? Or do you all know what you're talking about?

as much as I badly want to see Clermont to win the HC and I think this time it is a priority for them, Leinster is still the reference out there and will probably be playing a full team so they will be very tough to beat. Leinster so far were not really tested (well appart from the draw in Montpelier) and Clermont has a good enough record in France to suggest 50/50 is still a decent odd methinks. let's also see who the ref will be, maybe he will allow some clermont "blocks"

Equo Troiano wrote:I think Leinster 'can' beat them and would do so fairly comfortably at home. However, at this juncture, I think both teams are evenly matched, with Clermont making up for any deficiencies they may or may not have with home advantage. Its too close for me to call. But something makes me think Leinster are going to do it.

Clermont won that match with a dodgy try if I remember right? It was very tight. That said as a Leinster fan Id rather play anyone Munster, Toulouse etc. Home or away than Clermont in France. It will go down to the wire is my guess. Tough draw again for Leinster.

To correct the OP Ospreys aren't Rabo champs Munster are.

leinsterbaby wrote:To correct the OP Ospreys aren't Rabo champs Munster are.

Ah ok. For some reason I thought Ospreys beat Leinster in the final - I guess that must have been the semi.

That was the year before last. Last year Munster beat Leinster in the final to spoil an historic double.

Oh dear. I am going senile.

Leinster can look unplayable in Dublin. But they are not so bullet proof away from home. They lost away to Toulouse in 2010, lost away to Clermont in 2011, and drew away to Montpellier this season. And their away wins have been far more narrow than the thrashings they dish out in Dublin. Their away form is questionable.

Away to Clermont is the toughest draw possible. I think Leinster will play well but lose narrowly. We're the best team in Europe I think it's fair to say, but Clermont are at a similar level and have home advantage. This will be their year. They've got the luck of the semi final draw (after years of bad luck in getting horrific pools) and will meet a relatively inexperienced (at knockout rugby) side in the final.

LondonTiger wrote:
Exeter Chiefs
Performed really well in qualifying for the Amlin 1/4 finals, scuring the double over Dragons and beating Perpignan in Devon. Bonus points were at a premium in a tough group, and Exeter had to face an away 1/4 final. A brave performance in Paris saw heartbreaking defeat in a game the could (should?) have won.

7/10

LT, great review, and really not much that I could debate there. I might settle for a 6/10 for Chiefs, only because we probably had the better of USAP in Perpignan and of Stade Francais in Paris, but still lost both games albeit by small margins. However, it's still a massive learning curve for us, and I think the squad will only have gained from our experience in Europe this year - I'm more than happy with that

Feckless Rogue wrote:Leinster can look unplayable in Dublin. But they are not so bullet proof away from home. They lost away to Toulouse in 2010, lost away to Clermont in 2011, and drew away to Montpellier this season. And their away wins have been far more narrow than the thrashings they dish out in Dublin. Their away form is questionable.

Away to Clermont is the toughest draw possible. I think Leinster will play well but lose narrowly. We're the best team in Europe I think it's fair to say, but Clermont are at a similar level and have home advantage. This will be their year. They've got the luck of the semi final draw (after years of bad luck in getting horrific pools) and will meet a relatively inexperienced (at knockout rugby) side in the final.

Against Toulouse we were missing key men and came close. Sexton and Drico I think. Can't remember if we had a full team v Clermont but it was a BP loss. The Montpellier match isn't that significant as it was the first game of the season. If anything it shows Leinster have the guts and resources to play poorly and still get a result in France. I'd make Clermont marginal favourites however it helps that it's not being played at Stade marcel Michelin IMO. Clermont defense will be key. If they can prevent Leinster from scoring trys I feel Parra will kick them to victory.