Will Wales win the world cup before England win a grand slam?

Quite an interesting point I think. England still go on about the events of 2003, but haven't even had a clean six nations sweep since that wonderful event 9 years ago.

Wales have managed 3 slams and a semi final in just 7 years. Arguably Wales could/should have made the final, but I don't want to get into ifs and buts.

Surely if Wales keep this up then there is a very good chance of them making and even winning the 2015 RWC. Even if Wales don't win it in 2015 I still can't see England getting a grand slam before 2019.

I am really really dreading the tour of Aus, and next seasons 6Ns, as an slip we make will cause lead to non-stop mocking of us. England were not too far off the mark this 6Ns, all things considered they probably did far better than anyone would have expected. If they continue like that then next season they should really be pushing.

Idris, I am watching this thread as it has the potential to become a windup.

It is typical of an England vs Wales, my dad is bigger than your dad thread.

biltongbek wrote:Idris, I am watching this thread as it has the potential to become a windup.

It is typical of an England vs Wales, my dad is bigger than your dad thread.

I'm sorry but that makes no sense what so ever. Either it is currently a wind up or it is currently not.

If people want to come on here and make it a childish argument that is up to them. I am asking a simple question and there is a poll. If people want to have a bicker then that doesn't make the origin of the article any better or worse than when it started.

It's a very big ask, as even though England haven't won a GS since 2003, they almost won one this year and last year (I know they could have lost the 1st 2 games this year, but did a lot better than anyone expected) - Wales will have to improve a lot IMO to stand a chance to of winning the next WC and start beating SH sides consistently, but if they don't win it we have to wait until 2019 for another chance - a lot can happen in 7 years in rugby, and England will have a pretty different side having completed their rebuilding process and a lot of their current players will be core, seasoned internationals - as will Wales.

You've got to imagine that England will come pretty close to a clean sweep at least once in those 7 years

idris wrote:Quite an interesting point I think. England still go on about the events of 2003, but haven't even had a clean six nations sweep since that wonderful event 9 years ago.

Wales have managed 3 slams and a semi final in just 7 years. Arguably Wales could/should have made the final, but I don't want to get into ifs and buts.

Surely if Wales keep this up then there is a very good chance of them making and even winning the 2015 RWC. Even if Wales don't win it in 2015 I still can't see England getting a grand slam before 2019.

Hmmm.

How about changing the question to "will Wales beat a SH team away before England win a Grand Slam" - bit more realistic eh!

Well if England can squeeze a six nations tournament in before June then that could be a valid point!

"My Dad is tougher than your Dad"
"Yeah but my Dad had one hand tied behind his back."
"If he was any good he would have won anyway."
"At least my Dad can beat Bruce and Joost occasionally."
"Your Dad needs help from his down-under mates"
"Your Dad needed help from his down-under mates"
"Your Dad aint half as good as his Dad"
"Whereas your Grandpa got beat up by all and sundry"
"Aah, but my Great-Grandfather ..."

Right, that's the bickering taken care of.*

Currently at the bookies you can get between 6/1 and 10/1 on Wales to win the 2015 RWC, making them 5th or 6th favourite.

By contrast
New Zealand - 11/8-2/1
Australia - 4/1-6/1
England - 5/1-7/1
South Africa - 5/1-15/2
France - 7/1-9/1


Meanwhile you can get 8/1 or 9/1 on England to win the 2013 GS. Which means that the bookies think that Wales are slightly more likely to win the 2015 RWC than England are to win the 2013 6N. However, there are 3 6Ns before the next RWC. If you assume the same odds of a GS apply in 2014 and 2015 as 2013 and extrapolate then England are roughly twice as likely to win a GS before 2015 than Wales are to win the 2015 RWC.

This STAT101 lecture was brought to you by the letter R and the colour Green.
























*BTW my Dad can beat both your Dads up at the same time

Well that set me straight on my beloved springbok team.

biltongbek wrote:Well that set me straight on my beloved springbok team.

There there. Plenty of time for the odds to shift.

Kiwireddevil wrote:*BTW my Dad can beat both your Dads up at the same time

Yeah but he took 20 years to do it when it really mattered (sorry couldn't resist).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:*BTW my Dad can beat both your Dads up at the same time

Yeah but he took 20 24 years to do it when it really mattered (sorry couldn't resist).

Fixed that for you.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Well that set me straight on my beloved springbok team.

There there. Plenty of time for the odds to shift.

It's OK.

We're never the favourites.

But it is OK, we have never paid attention to those odds anyway.


Just have a look at the sleeve.

Spoiler:

I can't wait to see how Wales get on in Aus this summer.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:*BTW my Dad can beat both your Dads up at the same time

Yeah but he took 20 years to do it when it really mattered (sorry couldn't resist).

Nice work.

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you crook!
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I prefer the Extras version Barney.

Well England almost had a Grand Slam this year which may well have been closer than Wales' almost a World Cup final.

So my money is on England. Then again I wouldn't mind if Wales won a World Cup as the Wales England threads might turn into a futile Cold War arms race where both sides up the ante only to realise that it's just not worth it and no side can really win and that there is a greater force that cannot be stopped by either side. In that case, that force turned out to be China but in rugby the unstoppable juggernaut is NZ. Or Australia or SA. They all have two World Cups to their name. If one of those win then the my Dad is bigger than your Dad threads might well turn into my scrawny cousin is slightly less scrawny than your cousin.

No, Cus - taard. Cus -tard. No, cus- tard.

My dad's actually quite small

I can't see Wales winning a RWC in the next 12 years or longer (never) unless they get a good draw and avoid Irish refs, Wales best chance was blown in the last RWC i.e., the AB's were there for the taking but Sam screwed up with the help of the ref.

glamorganalun wrote:I can't see Wales winning a RWC in the next 12 years or longer (never) unless they get a good draw and avoid Irish refs, Wales best chance was blown in the last RWC i.e., the AB's were there for the taking but Sam screwed up with the help of the ref.

Itotaly agree with you, i truly believe that Wales best chance was the last rugby world cup.

But like the saying goes, never say never.

But i just cannot see them doing it any time soon.

If Wales or any country for that matter wants to win a world cup they have to be able to beat all the top tier teams on a regular basis.

You don't want to go into a RWC final and not have beaten the team you are facing for many years.

The belief necessary is huge, no amount of smoke blowing will alter that fact.

No matter who the team.

I still believe Wales best chance of winning the RWC was 2011, New Zealand had lots of injuries SA didn't turn up, Aus were hot and cold and France and England were poor yet France nearly won it!

Sport is all about taking your chances and Wales missed theirs.

IMO

HERSH wrote:I still believe Wales best chance of winning the RWC was 2011, New Zealand had lots of injuries SA didn't turn up, Aus were hot and cold and France and England were poor yet France nearly won it!

Sport is all about taking your chances and Wales missed theirs.

IMO

We did, Bruce didn't.

Common sense says no as one is much harder to achieve than the other.England came close with a poor team and they will improve.
Do I expect a World Cup win win for Wales?No.I would be more than delighted if we did!!!!!!!!
Do I expect a Grand Slam from England? Yes.Within 3 years England will do it.Will I be happy?No!!!!!

Evening taffin, how are you mate?

biltongbek wrote:Evening taffin, how are you mate?

Could be better!
We crack on and dread the end of the season.
Hope your boys wont go easy on the "English" fellas when they go home,I mean come visiting!

I promise we won't go easy on them. I just wonder of the two teams which team will have most of their players sleeping at home.

idris wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Idris, I am watching this thread as it has the potential to become a windup.

It is typical of an England vs Wales, my dad is bigger than your dad thread.

I'm sorry but that makes no sense what so ever. Either it is currently a wind up or it is currently not.

If people want to come on here and make it a childish argument that is up to them. I am asking a simple question and there is a poll. If people want to have a bicker then that doesn't make the origin of the article any better or worse than when it started.

From an outsiders view I think England were the better team of the 6Ns 2012

The reality is Wales could have easily lost/drawn 2-3 matches, certainly a draw against England would have been a fairer result, and a last gasp pen against Ireland didnt fill me with confidence, even us (Scotland) but for key injuries were up to a point having the upper hand in the game

England on the other hand have gone from been stripped of a deserved draw against you guys to getting better and better as the tournament went on

I would say the obvious question should be

Will England win ALL their next 6Ns games and will Wales get the results they perhaps deserved in the 2012 6Ns

Until you can be consistent then you will not have a hope of winning a WC tournament

Kiwireddevil wrote:

France - 7/1-9/1

Can ya?

I'm in

flyhalffactory wrote:From an outsiders view I think England were the better team of the 6Ns 2012

The reality is Wales could have easily lost/drawn 2-3 matches, certainly a draw against England would have been a fairer result, and a last gasp pen against Ireland didnt fill me with confidence, even us (Scotland) but for key injuries were up to a point having the upper hand in the game

England on the other hand have gone from been stripped of a deserved draw against you guys to getting better and better as the tournament went on

I would say the obvious question should be

Will England win ALL their next 6Ns games and will Wales get the results they perhaps deserved in the 2012 6Ns

Until you can be consistent then you will not have a hope of winning a WC tournament

Interesting that you raise the valid points of Wales' struggles v England, Ireland and Scotland but don't really mention England's struggles against Scotland and Italy. If any of France, Ireland or Wales had the start England had to the tournament (opening fixtures), I'd have expected them to Grand Slam.

Your last line is a bit incorrect too, as you can get to a final on two losses and still win, so in a way there is no real need to be consistent. You're probably wumming a wee bit though.

Interesting that the general consensus is that Wales' best chance was the World Cup last year. I think our best chance will be 2015 when we'll have a much more experienced squad. I don't hold out much hope for the summer, but worse Welsh teams have nearly got a result in Australia (Gareth Cooper blowing our last good chance).

flyhalffactory wrote:

idris wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Idris, I am watching this thread as it has the potential to become a windup.

It is typical of an England vs Wales, my dad is bigger than your dad thread.

I'm sorry but that makes no sense what so ever. Either it is currently a wind up or it is currently not.

If people want to come on here and make it a childish argument that is up to them. I am asking a simple question and there is a poll. If people want to have a bicker then that doesn't make the origin of the article any better or worse than when it started.

From an outsiders view I think England were the better team of the 6Ns 2012

The reality is Wales could have easily lost/drawn 2-3 matches, certainly a draw against England would have been a fairer result, and a last gasp pen against Ireland didnt fill me with confidence, even us (Scotland) but for key injuries were up to a point having the upper hand in the game

England on the other hand have gone from been stripped of a deserved draw against you guys to getting better and better as the tournament went on

I would say the obvious question should be

Will England win ALL their next 6Ns games and will Wales get the results they perhaps deserved in the 2012 6Ns

Until you can be consistent then you will not have a hope of winning a WC tournament

Probably the most delusional post that I have ever read.!
In which match did Wales put out their full strength team????????

Well for England to win a Grand Slam they only need the other 5 nations to be naff. For Wales to win the WC they need every team in the world to be naff (as both teams can only win when the opposition have a bad patch, it seems).

More realistically I think England are in a position now that if they have a bit of luck they could get a grand slam (as could most of the 6 nations). It'll take more than a little luck to win the World Cup but Wales may well have enough to win it by 2015. A bit early to say for sure but as long as they don't go backwards again they certainly have a good chance.

As for the other questions "Will Wales beat a Tri-Nation side away before England win the GS". I'd say yes as I think Wales will get a win in Australia this year which will be before England's 2013 Grand Slam

My mind is Wales get a bit lucky by the 6N. There were close games with England and Ireland that they could lost. On the flip is Ireland and England could be better than they looking by the finish table. More factor to consider this year will be South Africa look most powerful so could be some more lost for England and good chance for Wales and Ireland. Maybe Nuo Zeeland go down a bit following world cup and making again strong. Australia seem rotation and some time to settle the combinator. But Wales must be perspective now and think strong about find a truth to avoid more catapulting emotional state when realism is returning.

anotherworldofpain wrote:My mind is Wales get a bit lucky by the 6N. There were close games with England and Ireland that they could lost. On the flip is Ireland and England could be better than they looking by the finish table. More factor to consider this year will be South Africa look most powerful so could be some more lost for England and good chance for Wales and Ireland. Maybe Nuo Zeeland go down a bit following world cup and making again strong. Australia seem rotation and some time to settle the combinator. But Wales must be perspective now and think strong about find a truth to avoid more catapulting emotional state when realism is returning.

A pint of what you are on,please!!!!!!

Taffineastbourne wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

idris wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Idris, I am watching this thread as it has the potential to become a windup.

It is typical of an England vs Wales, my dad is bigger than your dad thread.

I'm sorry but that makes no sense what so ever. Either it is currently a wind up or it is currently not.

If people want to come on here and make it a childish argument that is up to them. I am asking a simple question and there is a poll. If people want to have a bicker then that doesn't make the origin of the article any better or worse than when it started.

From an outsiders view I think England were the better team of the 6Ns 2012

The reality is Wales could have easily lost/drawn 2-3 matches, certainly a draw against England would have been a fairer result, and a last gasp pen against Ireland didnt fill me with confidence, even us (Scotland) but for key injuries were up to a point having the upper hand in the game

England on the other hand have gone from been stripped of a deserved draw against you guys to getting better and better as the tournament went on

I would say the obvious question should be

Will England win ALL their next 6Ns games and will Wales get the results they perhaps deserved in the 2012 6Ns

Until you can be consistent then you will not have a hope of winning a WC tournament

Probably the most delusional post that I have ever read.!
In which match did Wales put out their full strength team????????

Where Oh Where!!! have you read anything about the "strength" of any nations (let alone Wales)?

I'll have a large cod with that massive chip on your shoulder Mr Eastbourne

would obv love us to win in 2015 but realitically wont be holding my breath. would love Eng not to win a GS by 2019 but realistically wont be holding my breath. Got to be a strong NO from me. P.S im soloist

If Wales can beat France away in 2013 I think another GS is the likely outcome with England and Ireland home

Taffineastbourne wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:My mind is Wales get a bit lucky by the 6N. There were close games with England and Ireland that they could lost. On the flip is Ireland and England could be better than they looking by the finish table. More factor to consider this year will be South Africa look most powerful so could be some more lost for England and good chance for Wales and Ireland. Maybe Nuo Zeeland go down a bit following world cup and making again strong. Australia seem rotation and some time to settle the combinator. But Wales must be perspective now and think strong about find a truth to avoid more catapulting emotional state when realism is returning.

A pint of what you are on,please!!!!!!

Reading that post almost made me go crosseyed!

Scotland will win the World Cup in 2015, Dan Parks will make a cameo appearance in the final and score the match winning try, along with a final drop-goal from Phil Godman who has been placed at flanker by Andy Robinson because he's such a beast in contact. Graeme Morrison will dance around the opposition with his dainty feet and Euan Murray gets the exclusive permission of the Pope to play in this final, it'll be that epic.

If Beaver aka Donald Duck can do it Nelly then why not Parks. You´ll need to go through your first three flyhalf choices though first and your captain will only have one good leg to stand on and a few calls at the ruck might have to go your way. But believe.

Correct ,me if i`m wrong but have`nt England lost just 2 6Ns games in the last 2 seasons.Also did`nt they win the 6Ns in 2010 playing Rugby then retreated into there shell.Then played so called RWC winning Rugby,Wales to there credit
had a reasonably good RWC.Then kicked on two there 3rd Grandslam in a decade by the record there isn`t a gnat`s whisker between the two sides.
I know this post is an attempt at humour,and England have about 4 times the player base to choose from.Realistically England RWC not before 2019 it takes that long to get a side together.Wales would need an extremely lucky draw to win a RWC.You have to be able to beat SH sides ANYWHERE to win one.wales have`nt shown that ability for over 50 years.THAT is not knocking them but it is rare for the RWC not to meet a least one on the route to the final.

No