Quins vs Tigers- huge match coming up

First topic message reminder :

Obviously it is still a while away, and I am getting in very early but that is because I am very excited. This is going to be a huge match. 1st vs 2nd again and a big chance for both teams to put a marker down. This is one of a few likely Final match ups, Leicester will be looking for revenge after Quins won the opposite fixture at Welford Road and Quins need to prove they beat another of the other Play-off regulars in a big, high pressure game. Both sides also got their attacking games running nicely this week and as with the recent Wembley match, there are fascinating battles all across the squads. There should be a fantastic atmosphere in a very full Stoop (the atmosphere against Wasps was great and though this isn't a derby, the importance of the match means I can see a lot of tension, but without the handbags we sometimes see in big games).

So, assuming both sides approach this match with as strong a side as possible, I foresee these match-ups being instrumental:

15- Mike Brown vs Geordan Murphy. Both classy, both have form behind them but both are in different parts of their careers with Geordan no longer needed by Ireland but in my opinion one of their better recent(ish) players, capable of all kinds of magic and an absolute legend in Leicester, a City who are undeniably good to their Club's imported players who are treated like hometown heroes if they accept the ethos they have there. Mike has been a revelation this year, a rock in defence and slick in joining the line in attack. The contest here will be close and exciting, but with Monye and one of the SS boys (unfortunate initials there...) I think Quins will be better in the back 3, with pacey pacey Chisholm providing entertaining cover too. But the giant Alesana could always prove me wrong, and Agulla is in rich form too.

Of more direct interest to England is the clash in the centres. And with Manu and JTH involved, clash is a good predictor of what might occur- there will be physicality in the midfield at the very least!

Anthony Allen, in my opinion, is highly unfortunate to have so few England caps, and his partnership with Manu should be looked at as an England pair. But so, perhaps, should JTH and Lowe (I like units). Very different approaches come from each- JTH is very physical and direct but then can offload so we can get the ball out to Lowe (still strong but faster and smaller) in more space out wide, often off a pivot. Allen is a more elusive and "skillful" attacker who uses his running to worry a defence, so that he can slickly get the ball to Manu who is like a tank but one that can hit 80 mph. Lowe is better at getting the ball to the wingers for me, and JTH and Lowe will be able, I think, to handle their opposite numbers in defence but as individual threats the Leicester pair are more dangerous and 36 on the bench is a good attacking player that can the midfield's approach too, so I have no idea how to call this.

At 10, Evans should be back apparently. Against Sarries, I thought he looked like he was getting his groove back. If he was and the rest during injury hasn't hindered it, then he is a better FH than Flood or, well, anyone in the AP. But that is far from clear and he has been off for a couple of months now. Flood is a very good 10, and will be trying to move his backs like he has been recently and pressing to take back his England shirt. Assuming Evans isn't at his best I will say that Leicester win this battle, but even if he is then Flood has an opportunity to compete with one of the NH's top FHs and show what he offers that Farrell doesn't. Partnering them is another vital contest- 2 excellent 9s when in form but both with different issues. Both Youngs and Care are chirpy but can get carried away and err towards petulance and frankly let their instincts overtake their forebrains and inevitably do something stupid. Youngs' England form is not great to say the least and Danny Care ruled himself out with what is either an alcohol or IQ issue. But Dickson, for his qualities, is not half the natural talent of either and they both offer so much running threat and energy and can have very good or very bad passing days. Both will be fired up and aware that they are not currently going to be starting for England but either has the ability to do so if they show they have the temperament to control their packs and keep their heads in big matches. They are effectively rivals for the number 2 spot now, but I envisage them as the eventual starters and I think in their hearts they both know that too. I'll say Leicester will have the edge for now, but I may change y mind drastically if our HBs look in good touch in the first 10 mins.

The Front row battle looks delicious. I noted before we played Sarries that scrummaging is now a strength not a weakness (though it has become clear that only with our best pack- anything less and we are vulnerable) and we went and proved that right. But Wasps are not great in that area and Sarries were weakened. Toulon really hurt us up front without Kohn and Leicester murdered Saracen's front row when they last played. This is the real litmus test (sorry that the article is so full of cliches) for Marler and JJ. If Marler can come out with equality or being narrowly outplayed by Castro and Cole, two genuinely World Class tighthead contenders for me, then I can see no excuses to not let him on the pitch for England. He is proving everyone who said he was an awful set-piece player wrong but it could all go jubblies-up here. And JJ, though now less penalised and better at getting his hit in, will also be truly tested against Ayerza. I think Leicester will win here and might really hurt us, but I hope we make it close. Chuter should have Buchanan, who has looked good but is still very inexperienced at this level against someone as Premiership-wise as Chuter.

In the second row we have another close-un'. Robson has looked good in the lineouts and the loose recently and Kohn is vital for our pack to function anywhere near its best. Parling looked fantastic for England in my opinion, and will have a battle against the well-rated Robson both in the air (I expect Parling to pip him, but won't be surprised if both teams' lineouts are fairly safe from the other's) and the loose (I expect Robson to take that but Parling looked lively in the 6Ns) and both will want to be on the plane to SA. On the other side of the second row, I'm not sure whether it will be Slater or Skivington or Kitchener. Either way they will have a physical contest with Kohn who won't be falsh or stand out but will add so much silently to our strength up front.

Finally my favourite skirmish- the back row. Just the thought of Robshaw vs Croft makes this match worth watching. Both leaders, both good carries and breakdown players in utterly different ways and both influential in the way their teams play. Add in Waldrom vs Easter as reasonably long-shot but still possible England 8s, and you have a classic. Salvi will have a hard time against Mo, who is just so physical it sometimes hurts to watch. With Guest or Wallace to cover and our backrow experienced at playing together and to each other's strengths, I think we will come out on top, but I expect Croft to have a good game on the Stoop in good weather.

Quins will try and contain Leicester's attacks and match them in the set-piece (no point in trying to overpower them really), then pile into the breakdown when fast ball is on and pound away. Leicester will try and crush us in the forwards then when we are tired send their strike runners flying in the backs. I'm not sure who will win but I can see 4 ties apiece and maybe even 2 BPs for the losers .

Barnes has been alright. No worse than any other reffing performance I have seen. He has been relatively even handed in my opinion.

Great comeback from Leicester. Anybody's game. But I think with Tigers pulling it back their bench will prove the difference if it stays close.

As a neutral, Barnes hasn't been bad at all, if anything he has been pretty good and pretty fair. Quins will feel hard done by but Tigers have responded so so well since Mafi came on

I <3 Nevans

Can someone please explain who these people are pretending to be the tigers pack?

This is encouraging whatever the end result

Tough one to call this. You wouldn't want to bet against Tigers building momentum in the latter stages and squeezing as they so often do (and did either side of HT), but as long as Johnson gets his bind right Quins have the upper hand in the scrum, and they look to have the edge in general physicality and at the breakdown. On top of that, Quins look a little more threatening and creative in attack. Think Quins will prevail.

Both sides poor at the lineout.

Knackeredknees wrote:Can someone please explain who these people are pretending to be the tigers pack?

It would be foolish to write them off with 20 mins to go and Castro on and Youngs on the bench. See the lead changing at least once more in this game

Has Ben been giving Danny box kicking lessons?

That was definitely a Tigers pen.

Bathite wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Can someone please explain who these people are pretending to be the tigers pack?

It would be foolish to write them off with 20 mins to go and Castro on and Youngs on the bench. See the lead changing at least once more in this game

Just can't remember a tigers scrum being at full strength being pushed around and knocked back in rucks

Barnes misses a forward pass in an important try. Shocker.

Oh well, this Is where we see what our character is like

Great try by Tuilagi after sustained pressure by Tigers.

Great game.

Ffs

THIS is where we see our character

Oh yes. Tigers are just top drawer. Waldron goes over for the fourth and the bonus point.

Knackeredknees wrote:

Bathite wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Can someone please explain who these people are pretending to be the tigers pack?

It would be foolish to write them off with 20 mins to go and Castro on and Youngs on the bench. See the lead changing at least once more in this game

Just can't remember a tigers scrum being at full strength being pushed around and knocked back in rucks

Hate to say I told you so, Tigers smashing holes in midfield and getting loads of quick ball. What a game! A classic game of two halves, both teams dominated 40mins each I'd say

Quins melting in the heat.

33-40 to Leicester.

Stop forcing it!

Wrong option by Smith there, if he'd passed that out to the wing it would have been a score.

That over fancy bollix just there lost the match for sure

Not enough power in the Quins bench, think that'll be the difference in the end. Quins seemed to have the better performing 1st XV, but it's been going down hill since they started heading off the pitch.

Hands on the ball. Wrong call

how many mins left?

Superb turnaround from 20-3 down to 43-33 to win by Tigers.

They shouldn't have lost that. Not even a BP. Ruined my week

COME ON! Sounds like it was an amazing game, can't wait to watch it when im home!

Well, in a preview of the final Tigers look favourites. Quins have more than enough to win, but they'll have to make sure Easter & Evans stay on for the full 80.

Just one day that's all I ask is that the refs remember its Flip illegal to dummy from the base of a scrum/ruck!!!!!! I give up the amount of times a scrum half will put his hands down to pick up the ball then stand up and the ref then penalizes the wrong team!!(not just youngs they all do it)

Good job by Tigers, didn't think they'd do it after the first half, Quins looked dominant in most aspects.

Quins definitely needed Easter beyond the 64th minute (the turning point for me, Quins were leading 33-26 when he went off).

In contrast, Tigers improved with Mafi on the pitch. Would they be better off with a Croft & Mafi partnership on the flanks?

I want Tigers to meet us in the final. It'll be the only one I'd find truly satisfying and we need to avenge this

Allen looked really good day. Easter and Evans are essential to our title aspirations, but both looked on form today. Easter's boshing off of Croft to score was embarrassing. Our pack looked really with it in the scrums . Lineeouts were poor. Care needs to box kick better. Brown is class in attack and defence. I think we can be really happy with most of that match but losing that lead shows up an inexperience in this situation that we can't afford to in the Playoffs, and the stupid frills in the lineout at the end and that switch inside out on the wing show that without Nick and Nick we lack composure.

And there is the ominous showing of Leicester ability. Quins played well, but couldn't live with Tigers power and pressure for 80 minutes.

6th TBP in a row, with real potential for another against a waning Bath at WR next week. Who says Leicester are boring?

Leicester easily top of the post world cup table, and still have a chance of top spot, which would be unbelievable after their nightmare start.

Quick question- how did anyone with a knowledge of front row play think Marler did in the scrum? From what I saw he handled both Cole and Castro pretty well but a) the scrum is not my area of expertise and b) I am biased, so did he cope? If so, can the myth that his scrummaging is too weak to play for England be dispelled and can we actually use him?

Also, just saw that Croft was stretchered off- I didn't see who it was during the game and we didn't have commentary. I retract my comment about Easter boshing him and hope he recovers

Uncharacteristically, it was Ayerza that struggled a bit in the scrum. Marler held up well.

Croft got a stinger. Should be alright.

A brilliant game which ebbed and flowed for all 80 minutes. Quins showed some great handling skills and played the ref far better (learn quick Tigers!) but the Tigers offered more in terms of power and attacking options. Youngs and Flood just seemed to have more options running off them in the second half and the Quins defence struggled to deal with that. Evans inability to take the early kicks to touch really hampered Quins in the opening minutes and Brown's misses of touch gave Tigers the platform for their first try.

Quick question- how did anyone with a knowledge of front row play think Marler did in the scrum? From what I saw he handled both Cole and Castro pretty well but a) the scrum is not my area of expertise and b) I am biased, so did he cope? If so, can the myth that his scrummaging is too weak to play for England be dispelled and can we actually use him?

I don't think there was any real scrum battle as Barnes looked completely lost and allowed Quinns to wheel it repeatedly. Any scrums not wheeled saw guesses rather than decisions shown particularly when he penalised Johnston for his bind after re setting the previous scrum in which Johnston had an identical bind.

My second visit to the Stoop this season was even more enjoyable than the first.

First time I have taken my daughters to an away match this - and i have to say the Quins fans all round us treated them wonderfully well. Watching the recording I am now at 33-26, the point at which my 9 tear old was so close to tears she got some huge hugs from those around us.

Great day, great trip and maybe we will see you again just over the road next month.

Gotta love Stuart Barnes.

Spends the first half criticising Flood for being too flat. Now that flood is dictating matters he praises how flat he is standing.

Barnes is a douchebag (sorry, I'm drowning my sorrows)

Blimey Salvi's face is/was a mess.

Have to say, I thought Wayne Barnes was good today, there have been a number of games he's been in control of recently that I've enjoyed, and thought he'd done well.

PS the scrums don't count, they are a mess and every supporter has a different view on them, as do refs and props!

Knackeredknees wrote:Just one day that's all I ask is that the refs remember its Flip illegal to dummy from the base of a scrum/ruck!!!!!! I give up the amount of times a scrum half will put his hands down to pick up the ball then stand up and the ref then penalizes the wrong team!!(not just youngs they all do it)

Except for that penalty he neither had hands on the ball nor stood up.

He was quite restrained when Guest tried to hold him back just before as well by keeping hold of his foot.

I meant Stuart Barnes. I thought, 2 decisions aside, Wayne was fairly decent today

This is the most entertaining Tigers side I can remember. Quins are very good, particularly when they have their key players on the pitch, but I think Leicester look unstoppable at present. I've never been an Allen fan but he was superb today and ended up dominating JTH.

Celebrating in Manchester, hopefully will get back to Leicester without being stabbed!

I'd like to admittedly drunkenly say that, reminded by their post matches interviews, I have massive respect for both Connor O'Shea and Cockerill for their straight shooting styles

Only just managed to bring myself to post. Totaly gutted to not even get a losing or try bp fro that game.

Fair dos Tigers in the second half you really stepped up and us taking off Easter and Evand was the final nail in the coffin.

I can't see any one beating Leicester now, just too much power and precision and it only gets better when the bench comes on.

For Quins we need to again look at our squad and think is this bench good enough? Too many games now things have gone badly come 60 mins and the changes.

Haven't yet seen it, but by all accounts it was a great game for which both sides take credit. Maybe no points for Quins, but much respect.

Seems a very good chance we'll meet again soon and I doubt Tigers are resting easy on their laurels.

...just wish the play offs didn't produce so many injuries.