Should the Cardiff Blues have their regional status re-voked

The regions were put in place for benefit of Welsh rugby and for the benefit of the national team. Now if you are going to neglect your whole region and fill your team with NWQ players then surely something has to be done about it. All that the Cardiff Blues have done thus far is build up an absurd amount of debt and use the money they have been given by the WRU to sighn NWQ players. I was willing to get invovled with supporting my supposed region, but there will be no way on this earth I will be going down to Cardiff to watch a sub-standard southern hemisphere barbarian side have their behinds shown to them week in week out. To this date they have allowed WQ players leave and have replaced tham with sub standard NWQ players. Surely they could have found players of the same quality in and around their region. So, to me, it seems they are neglecting their respsonabilities within their region and sticking two fingers up at the WRU. As a result they should have their regional staus re-voked and give it to an area more deserving i.e North Wales or the Valleys.

Mods, can we please move this to the club section.

The Blues have not had the best season this year granted, but isn't this whole Blues-witch hunt getting a bit out of hand. The Blues have develped a number of players who were involved heavily in this years grandslam. They were the best of the welsh regions in the HEC this season, and were doing rather well in the Rabo prior to a slump in form post 6Ns.

I don't think it's fair disliking Cardiff Blues because they aren't a true region.
They paid extra money in 2003 to be a stand alone club,and the regional thing was put on them by the WRU with the Liquidation of the Warriors.

Did the WRU really expect a club that paid to stand alone and to become regional, when also solely owned by Cardiff RFC, or to put Cardiff first and foremost.

The problem is the WRU's to sort out, as they lumbered Cardiff RFC as a region without them wanting it. It was down To the WRU to make sure they became a true region, rather than ignore it.

Now I think the WRU will have to really look at it an come up with a solution, nearly 10 years later than they should have done.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The Blues have not had the best season this year granted, but isn't this whole Blues-witch hunt getting a bit out of hand. The Blues have develped a number of players who were involved heavily in this years grandslam. They were the best of the welsh regions in the HEC this season, and were doing rather well in the Rabo prior to a slump in form post 6Ns.

There are rightful concerns about the condition of the Blues atm. They're going to be losing allot of the core of their side and are in danger of being left with old timers to make up the squad numbers and season tickets to all but diminish.

However, like you said they contributed allot to this years grandslam. Cuthbert was on a development contract before this season, with very little known about him. Fast forward 6 months and he was scoring the try that secured the GS for Wales. Blues have also given Wales their future captain and Lions captain and the man to fill the void left by Martyn Williams in the form of Sam Warburton. Lloyd Williams was another unknown quantity but has established himself as the no.2 SH to Mike Phillips and Bradley Davies has been one of the stand out performers for the national side for the last 3 seasons. They also have some bright young players coming through like Harry Robinson and as we saw in the u20's and against the O's Luke Hamilton at 8.

I wouldn't class them as a region really because they are more are realistically the side of the capital. They've messed up the deal at the CCS although at the time it looked like a good idea with success on the pitch and crowd numbers continuously on the increase. ATM its probably the least of their worries to become a better region and are simply looking to survive. They should be supported not revoked of their regional status. As all Blues fans will tell you, they need a drastic change at the top and then a change of the coaching management. It horrible as a Blues fan to see my club/region in this sort of state, I went to the O's game and the atmosphere and performence was dire. The whole thing was just collective awfulness. £22 to watch the Blues play in a lifeless stadium with two coaches who are completely out of their depth. Players leaving left right and centre and a 17 year lease with a stadium which is proving a genuine threat of putting the Blues out of business. They should try to start next season by becoming a proper regional team with a few games being played in the valley's such as LV cup matches or rabo direct matches at the least to try and reach out to the disenfranchised fans.

no.

That was simple.

One bad season and suddenly the worms rise to the surface and call for the heads. You forget that while we have signed NWQ players and some being duds, have we not brought Jamie Roberts, Leigh Halfpenny, Alex Cuthbert, Bradley Davies through the ranks. Not to mention Gethin Jenkins became one of the worlds top LHP while playing at the region, Martin Williams being the same. You throw that in there with the annihilation of Gloucester at Twickenham, almost reaching the semi finals but for Tom James spooning his kick wide and winning the Amlin by beating Toulon in their own back yard is something not many teams do.

Sure we've signed a bad NWQ's players in the past but we've had more gems than duds. On one hand you have Parks & SNK, these guys were bought because Robinson wanted to leave because he wasn't getting a chance with Wales. Then on the other you have Rush, Blair, Patterson, Tito, Molitika, Laulala. These guys have been pivotal to our success and have brought more to the table than most welsh players could. Has there been a welsh number 8 who has come close to Rush in his prime? There's only Toby Faletau, the next is Ben Morgan and he's english. Who do the osprey's play at 8 these days? Joe Bearman? He's a welsh qualified englishman but never capped, surely the ospreys should be condemned for haulting the progess of a young number 8 from their region?

This all stems from your last line, about the valleys region (again, btw). We get it, Ponty want a region to represent the valleys (which is a cover name for 'Pontypridd RFC') and all this has been drummed up by a local MP getting the locals up in arms about it.

We've had a very dire season, but we've had worse. Stop following Owen 'Pied Piper' Smith and get over it.

I am not following Owen 'Pied Piper' Smith though, he is not even my MP. All I am saying is, that besides building uo an awfull lot of debt. they are now signing the likes of Campese Ma'fau and some third choice tighthead from France and an Irish second rower from the English semi-pro league. Come on, surely they can find players of this calibre in and around their region. Next season, you will more than likley see a Capital of Wales team meade up of three quarters NWQ with a sprinkling of Welsh players. They could play Ma'fau, the new French tighthead, Tito, Patterson, Rush, Molitika, Blair, Falise, Pretorious to name but a few. I think this is far from o.k and the WRU should look into this and question the funding they are giving them. Don't get me wrong, I would not like for Cardiff to loose their Regional status, but if they want it, they should earn it.

In defense of the Blues (man I hate saying that), Ma'fau was at the world cup, so he does have experience, and the Blues will be left with hardly any experience in the front row at all. And I would expect that any prop who has spent time at the coal face in france will be pretty battle hardened, and have learnt more than a few tricks that he can pass on to the younger props at the Blues.

I think the WRU should have stepped in and stopped some of these. It is baffling when there are players available that have come through the academy.

Lord

I agree in part with what you say, but the NWQ are being brought in to replace the other NWQ players...

Molitika, Filisse are both retiring.

Tito, Blair, Parks, Laulala etc are leaving. Well Titos a question mark leaving/retiring due to injuries.

Bringing in 2 props and a backrower to replace 6 NWQ players is hardly fielding a NWQ team!

The Blues have been Wales strongest HC team since inception, and are the only team to win european silverware.

They were also the team who held most number of lion toursits come the end of the last tour... They have earnt regional status!

Thay have problems, but the last 9 years have been the most succesfull region.

Morgannwg wrote:I think the WRU should have stepped in and stopped some of these. It is baffling when there are players available that have come through the academy.

Where props (front row in gerneral) are concerned it is best to have some experience in the squad to help bring the younger academy players through, rather than just throwing the kids in to the deep end.

Plus how are Andrews Hobbs and Trevett going to contribute to the welsh cause, not to mention the Blues!!!

All 3 are prem quality and will be for a few years more, Andrews may get to decent standard but he needs to learn, and be patient.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Thay have problems, but the last 9 years have been the most succesfull region.

I wouldn't go that far. To my knowledge so far (since regionalism)

Scarlets - 1 Celtic League
Blues - 1 Amlin Cup, 1 Anglo-Welsh Cup
Ospreys - 1 Ango-Welsh Cup, 3 Celtic Leagues

So I guess it all comes down to whether it is the quality or quantity of the silverware that matters.

It's not all silverware!!!

When was the last HC semi the O's played?

How many Lions did they contribute last tour?

How many internationals have either team contributed to the cause since inception?

What does each region cost the WRU?

I don't mean to underestimate any team, O's HC record was very good until recently, and we all know the contribution they made to the 2008 GS, but if we're talking revoking regional status we have to look at the Dragons and Scarlets before the Blues!

Bluesman - I was happy to defend your lot until your final sentence Maybe they should look at who finished bottom region the most Scarlets 1, Blues 2, Dragons the rest.

Being serious though, even if they did take the regional status off the Blues, and make it so that the Dragons covered Cardiff as theiur region too. Given time the Dragons would end up playing in Cardiff as that is where the major population is. Just look at the Ospreys, Neath provided the players, and the money, yet when they put down their roots in a full time home where was it based? Swansea, where the population, and bigger wages are found. Simples.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Plus how are Andrews Hobbs and Trevett going to contribute to the welsh cause, not to mention the Blues!!!

All 3 are prem quality and will be for a few years more, Andrews may get to decent standard but he needs to learn, and be patient.

To be fair, I did not realise that some of the NWQ players were retiring at the end of this season. But of all the four regions the Blues are the one's who have relied on NWQ the most. Also, I would hazard a guess that, Andrew Hobbs and Trevett are as good as Campese Ma'fua any day, I remember him prior to the world cup with his family because they named him after the famous campese, but whan I watched him against Wales he only came on for 10mins then he was given the shepherds crook as he was rubbish.

I see your point Scarlet, but by that theory the Scarlets could end up in about 20 different towns that are significantly larger!

If the Blues have thier regional status revoked... thats the end of the sport in Wales!

If Cardiff and the surrounding weren't to be represented those disenfranchised would not only go missing but actively work against the WRU. The FAW would jump at the chance to gain that sort of support, Cardiff City would take total control of the city, and soon Newport would see it engulfed by the same situation. The sport would move West and struggle due to not having the numbers, and the money spinning int day would dilute by more than 50%!

The game has struggled with proffesionalism, and the powers haven't looked forward but tried to copy different models from other nations, there has been no foresight, no invention and noone involved at any decent level is proffesional.

I think the game is still run by amateurs, old fashioned dinosaurs trying to make it in a world they don't fully understand!

Lord

Andrews is a prospect but bvery young, Hobbs and Trevett aren't fit enough to lace Geths bootlaces, let alone start along side him!!!

You are right, we have had to rely on NWQ players more than others, mainly because the communication between Academy and first team have been blurred.

Cardiff is split into 2 teams at 16/17/18's level, North and South and in general South is the strongest team in Wales at all levels! They produce more quality than most and give the least amount of exposure.

Ma'afu is a poor replacement, as is Burrost? but in reality they are both better options than the guff we have there at present, and can't make the scrum any weaker. They both also command a wage far less than Geth and Yapp, which I suspect is key!

From the outside looking in you have:

Scarlets: A funny sort of region. They see themselves as a West Wales region. Everyone else sees them as a stand alone Llanelli. However they are doing well enough in attendances, ticket holders and in player development. Players seem to be happy there.

Ospreys: I really think that the "one true region" thing was accurate when first introduced. Doing well but in a transitional period now. Have never really liked them but always respected them. They underachived when they had a very good team.

Blues: Being a captial city is both a blessing and a curse. There has to be a team based in Cardiff that much is obvious from a marketing point of view. However you will always get this thing about them not accepting others outside Cardiff. We used to hear it about Leinster only looking after a small part of Dublin. Can be salvaged but need a make over. Personally I think push forward with the pink jerseys etc. Change the name and put faith in youth.

Dragons: Have got some good players and a really good atmosphere at Rodney Parade. Need to make more of an effort though to get noticed. I said to a pal of mine (dragons fan) that they are the one team in the league that you would forget existed. Any publicity is good publicity.

If there is to be a shake up I think that Scarlets and Ospreys should be left alone.

"Bradley Davies has been one of the stand out performers for the national side for the last 3 seasons"

Madness

thebluesmancometh wrote:I see your point Scarlet, but by that theory the Scarlets could end up in about 20 different towns that are significantly larger!

Not really as west Wales is what used to be called Dyfyd for a bit (Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire, and Cardiganshire). Llanelli is the biggest town population-wise in the region, followed by Milford Haven. Carmarthen, Aberwystyth etc are not as big as folk give them credit for. That said I think the Scarlets should be based in the regions only city, as St. Davids is far closer to me!

Scarlet

There isn't a city up west, I thought Newport Swansea and Cardiff were the only cities and Wrexham to be crowned!

Stag

In reality the O's being one true region is as bull as everyone else now as Neath flat out refuse to be involved with them, so they really just cover Swansea.

Llanelli should've just joined Swansea initially, Neath would've been happy to join with Bridgend and Cardiff with Newport, with a 4th region up north. There is an argument for Newport to be stand alone, but in no way did Llanelli have a leg to stand on, it beggers belief.

But hey, it's all water under the bridge lets argue about a possible shake up.

Scarlets are coming good, but that is what happens when your bailed out and get loans defered, a new stadium paid for you etc... If the Blues get bailed out heavily by the WRU they'll sit back and build from their academy too.

bluesman - St Davids is a city, but a v v small one

Is it really had city status? It must be one of the smallest in the UK surely?

Yep, tis a city, it has a cathedral, and it is indeed the smallest in Britain

wow, everyday's a schoolday!!!

ha yep!


and I suppose I should comment on the OP. Whether Cardiff Blues should or shouldn't have their regional status re-voked is a bit of a non question, as the WRU will never let a capital city side fold.

I think if the Blues are ever in the position to be bailed out, the WRU will end up owning say 50% of them, and that way have a more hands on approach in making the Blues work as a proper region.

They do need to go back to basics though and get the local Cardiff fans back onside first. Think they need a new marketing man too.

dreamer

There is no way they get joe Cardiff back while at the CCS!!!!!

And theres no way they are going to get the valley numbers, so where does that leave them?

rugbydreamer wrote:ha yep!


and I suppose I should comment on the OP. Whether Cardiff Blues should or shouldn't have their regional status re-voked is a bit of a non question, as the WRU will never let a capital city side fold.

I think if the Blues are ever in the position to be bailed out, the WRU will end up owning say 50% of them, and that way have a more hands on approach in making the Blues work as a proper region.

They do need to go back to basics though and get the local Cardiff fans back onside first. Think they need a new marketing man too.

Which is what I think to, and have mentioned on other threads, I just opened this topic up to see what everyone else thought. Its plainly obvious that the wru will never let the capital side go bust, and I think Peter thomas knows this also and is playing the wru a little. I still think they should look around Wales for players more, rather than just sign a Nwq player with a cool sounding name.

rugbydreamer wrote:ha yep!


and I suppose I should comment on the OP. Whether Cardiff Blues should or shouldn't have their regional status re-voked is a bit of a non question, as the WRU will never let a capital city side fold.

I think if the Blues are ever in the position to be bailed out, the WRU will end up owning say 50% of them, and that way have a more hands on approach in making the Blues work as a proper region.

They do need to go back to basics though and get the local Cardiff fans back onside first. Think they need a new marketing man too.

I believe the current Sales and Marketing director is leaving, so there should be a new one in place for next season. I doubt he or she will be able to make much of a difference mind you.

They can't do any worse than offer season ticket holders discounted tickets though... surely!

LordDowlais wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:ha yep!


and I suppose I should comment on the OP. Whether Cardiff Blues should or shouldn't have their regional status re-voked is a bit of a non question, as the WRU will never let a capital city side fold.

I think if the Blues are ever in the position to be bailed out, the WRU will end up owning say 50% of them, and that way have a more hands on approach in making the Blues work as a proper region.

They do need to go back to basics though and get the local Cardiff fans back onside first. Think they need a new marketing man too.

Which is what I think to, and have mentioned on other threads, I just opened this topic up to see what everyone else thought. Its plainly obvious that the wru will never let the capital side go bust, and I think Peter thomas knows this also and is playing the wru a little. I still think they should look around Wales for players more, rather than just sign a Nwq player with a cool sounding name.

I would have thought they would have scoured Wales, certainly the Welsh prem at least, for players who can step up. Maybe there aren't any particularly of the front row kind.

thebluesmancometh wrote:They can't do any worse than offer season ticket holders discounted tickets though... surely!

Yeh, they can sell everyone season tickets, then give away free tickets to everyone throughout the season and and expect the people who shelled out money to not say anything about it. Hang on ..........

thebluesmancometh wrote:They can't do any worse than offer season ticket holders discounted tickets though... surely!

They could do, but it still wouldn't make much of a difference.

Lord

Lets just leave it there, we could go on all day like this. Lets just agree the marketting team were shoite

thebluesmancometh wrote:Lord

Lets just leave it there, we could go on all day like this. Lets just agree the marketting team were shoite

O.k then, have you had any freebies lately ?

thebluesmancometh wrote:dreamer

There is no way they get joe Cardiff back while at the CCS!!!!!

And theres no way they are going to get the valley numbers, so where does that leave them?

Up a creek without a paddle.

All the time, take them, put them on my to do list, then the missus throws them out the week after!!!

Not forgettin the arms, legs or working brain function Dave!!!

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:ha yep!


and I suppose I should comment on the OP. Whether Cardiff Blues should or shouldn't have their regional status re-voked is a bit of a non question, as the WRU will never let a capital city side fold.

I think if the Blues are ever in the position to be bailed out, the WRU will end up owning say 50% of them, and that way have a more hands on approach in making the Blues work as a proper region.

They do need to go back to basics though and get the local Cardiff fans back onside first. Think they need a new marketing man too.

Which is what I think to, and have mentioned on other threads, I just opened this topic up to see what everyone else thought. Its plainly obvious that the wru will never let the capital side go bust, and I think Peter thomas
knows this also and is playing the wru a little. I still think they should look around Wales for players more, rather
than just sign a Nwq player with a cool sounding name.

I would have thought they would have scoured Wales, certainly the Welsh prem at least, for players who can step up. Maybe there aren't any particularly of the front row kind.

And to think, they could have kept Rhys gill.

Or signed Mitchell!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Or signed Mitchell!

Yep, there's another one. He is not even on mega bucks with Exeter either

Mega bucks, he's barely on minimum wage!

But as Thomas did with plenty other players, tried to manipulate their intentions to progress and play for wales into accepting a nothing contract!!!

LordDowlais wrote:

And to think, they could have kept Rhys gill.

He was down the pecking order at the time and I doubt they could have afforded to keep hold of him any case.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

And to think, they could have kept Rhys gill.

He was down the pecking order at the time and I doubt they could have afforded to keep hold of him any case.

I bet they could have though, they were just trying there best to tempt James hook to come and play for them, so they were keeping all the moola for him, and totally neglecting the talent they had.

They didn't get to a real offer for Hook I thought. Didn't they just try to explain to him that he'll win the HC with Cardiff and get regular welsh gametime, which would bump his wage up from the 6.00 p/h offered???

thebluesmancometh wrote:They didn't get to a real offer for Hook I thought. Didn't they just try to explain to him that he'll win the HC with Cardiff and get regular welsh gametime, which would bump his wage up from the 6.00 p/h offered???

rugbydreamer wrote:bluesman - St Davids is a city, but a v v small one

Yeah it is. Isn't St Asaph one now as well? As of this year and the Queen's Jubilee?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The Blues have not had the best season this year granted, but isn't this whole Blues-witch hunt getting a bit out of hand. The Blues have develped a number of players who were involved heavily in this years grandslam. They were the best of the welsh regions in the HEC this season, and were doing rather well in the Rabo prior to a slump in form post 6Ns.

The most represented team in the Wales 15 this 6N?...anyone?

Scarlets?