Jaque Fourie decides to walk away from the boks until 2014

Read this morning that Jaque Fourie has decided to withdraw from playing from the boks whilst he plays in Japan.

That means he will be unavailable until most probably the 2014 4N.

This is bad news for the boks, Fourie and rugby in general.

For the boks they have no genuine replacement of his standard. Sadie, Pietersen and De Jongh are possible replacements but they are not in the same league as Fourie who ranks alongside Smith & BOD at his best as the best outside centres in the game.

I understand why Fourie has done this.... he was given a massive offer, rugby careers are short and he will want to secure his future for himself and his family. However it is a sad affair when a player like Fourie decides to play what will in all probability be sub par rugby for the lure of the green.

Does anyone know what rugby in Japan is like, whats its current standard is? I know their are a number of players of note in the league but also that its still dominated by domestic players.. given that their best players seem to struggle against the poorest of RWC sides I can't see it being anything better than Vodacom Cup rugby.... which WP puts their 3rd team out in.

Its a real shame for Fourie in terms of his career... he could have added another 30 caps and become their all time top try scorer given he is only 8 odd away from Habana's figure. By the time he comes back after 2 years of playing sub standard rugby I doubt he will be the same player and maybe someone like De Jongh will emerge as a world classs player in their own right.

Ja, well, then he mustn't come back at all.

He might change his mind if legitimate competition comes through the SA ranks.

Tough doodie, the way I see it is there is talent in SA and they must be used, it is time that a South African coach play hardball with these guys, you either make decent money in SA and qualify to play for the Boks, or you decide to run after money and forsake your right to play for SA.

It is that simple. I don't care how good Jaque Fourie is, he made his bed and must now sleep in it.

Everyone is replaceable, and 3 years is a long time, we'll find someone, and when he comes back, he can sit next to me and watch the RWC in 2015 from my coach, reminiscing about when he ran over O'Gara.

biltongbek wrote:Tough doodie, the way I see it is there is talent in SA and they must be used, it is time that a South African coach play hardball with these guys, you either make decent money in SA and qualify to play for the Boks, or you decide to run after money and forsake your right to play for SA.

It is that simple. I don't care how good Jaque Fourie is, he made his bed and must now sleep in it.

Everyone is replaceable, and 3 years is a long time, we'll find someone, and when he comes back, he can sit next to me and watch the RWC in 2015 from my coach, reminiscing about when he ran over O'Gara.

The most concerning thing about your whole reply there Biltong is that highlighted in bold. You have a coach?!

reading what Haskell has had to say, the Japanese rugby is very technical and very very fast.

damage_13

Regardless of that I'd still fancy the EP Kings to turn them over... who are a Currie Cup B divisional side.

Haskell wouldn't come out and say it was a waste of time... not with a hefty wedge placed in his bank account and perhaps more to come in the future.

bluestonevedder wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Tough doodie, the way I see it is there is talent in SA and they must be used, it is time that a South African coach play hardball with these guys, you either make decent money in SA and qualify to play for the Boks, or you decide to run after money and forsake your right to play for SA.

It is that simple. I don't care how good Jaque Fourie is, he made his bed and must now sleep in it.

Everyone is replaceable, and 3 years is a long time, we'll find someone, and when he comes back, he can sit next to me and watch the RWC in 2015 from my coach, reminiscing about when he ran over O'Gara.

The most concerning thing about your whole reply there Biltong is that highlighted in bold. You have a coach?!

I wanna be a coach, but have a couch.

ok then, have you SEEN the japs play their rugby?

Like I said, technically complex and very fast (they have to be as they lack the right form and structure to play a power game.

biltongbek wrote:

I wanna be a coach, but have a couch.

for a minute I believed it Biltong! Never know what to expect from you.

damage_13

Well I've seen their very best players play for Japan.... who I assume make up the very best domestic players in the league (bar the odd marquee foreigner).. given none of them to my knowledge play in any of the top leagues outside of Japan.

In my article I did ask if anyone knew of Japanese rugby... but anyone would surely take Haskells comments with a touch of salt.... the fact they're paying higher then France is surely the only reason why any top player would go.

From watching their national side I would rank them around Vodacom Cup standard which is the 3rd tier in SA.
I think all Currie Cup premier division squads would turn them over and I'd be amazed if anyone thought Japan would beat even Griquas.

Which therefore would rank them amongst teams such as Boland, EP, Leopards etc.

bluestonevedder wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

I wanna be a coach, but have a couch.

for a minute I believed it Biltong! Never know what to expect from you.

Yeah, I like to surprise people.

FA, I think you are a little harsh there, Japan would surely give it a go at Currie Cup level, theyhave a professional setup and many foreign qualified players.

fa0019, yeah I agree, I guess I was thinking of their National Side.

unfortunate for the boks at this current monent in time, as he is by far and away the best 13 available. hopefully it will give pieterson or someone else a chance to put up their hands for the jersey long term.

i wouldn't be too suprised to see f steyn the jersey with pieterson moved to the wing

BB & Damage

I think the national side would compete at CC level.... but I can't see how the standard of the league is Currie Cup.

This was the Currie Cup side WP put out in their last match before the SF last year vs. the Leopards. I didn't put in the team which played the SF as generally teams put back their top players for these matches.

15 Gio Aplon, 14 JJ Engelbrecht, 13 Juan De Jongh, 12 Jean De Villiers (c), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Demetri Catrakilis, 9 Nic Groom, 8 Nick Koster, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Pieter Louw, 5 Adriaan Fondse, 4 Hilton Lobberts, 3 Brok Harris, 2 Deon Fourie, 1 JC Kritzinger.

You have a number of boks in there such as Aplon, De Jongh, JDV & Habana and one or two S15 players but other than that its very much WP 3rd string players (or S15 replacement players).

I would fancy that side to beat Japan.

I'd agree with that, but when you go down to the bottom two teams of the Currie Cup, it would be a different story.

You have to look at the positives. There is no other way. His removal from SA means that youngsters get blooded instead, let the Bokk conveyor belt continue to trundle out youngsters with skill.

If he is still better come the next world cup then he will surely get a shot, if not then you are all the better for it.

At least the Bokk capped him before he left otherwise you might find him in the opposition backline.

true but given 2012 it will only be S15 franchises and Griquas.

I always thought Griquas are a tidy outfit, they always come out with some good results and bat well above their weight.

maestegmafia wrote:You have to look at the positives. There is no other way. His removal from SA means that youngsters get blooded instead, let the Bokk conveyor belt continue to trundle out youngsters with skill.

If he is still better come the next world cup then he will surely get a shot, if not then you are all the better for it.

At least the Bokk capped him before he left otherwise you might find him in the opposition backline.

Maes, you are right, the positives are Heyneke Meyer is forced to look outside the "old" guard. Yes Jaque Fourie is a brilliant player, but he is gone now, same category as a retired player, it happens.

Don't even joke about finding him in the oppoisiton team because this poaching business or by whatever name people want to call it these days are getting on my nerves.

We have talent, and it is time they get selected.

Man, that is crap news. Fourie is by far my favourite 13, I love watching him play. Best 13 in the world, even better than Smith IMO.

Who are the options? Could Frans Steyn play 13?

biltongbek

Perhaps the boks should start using fringe players when facing weaker opposition outside of the RWC.

I.e. get more home matches vs. Italy, Scotland, Fiji, Samoa etc.

and then use up & coming players rather than have their first XV or close put 50 points on them.

By that you give experience to players who may not yet be ready and also prevent them from representing other nations.

Its been done before...

I recall a story about the great Jock Stein (Former Glasgow Celtic manager & first UK coach to lift the UEFA European Cup)... when he was asked if he had a choice of a Catholic or Protestant player of equal measure who would he pick he said

'The Protestant.... as (arch-rivals) Rangers would never sign the Catholic.

Its thinking like that which made him a champion and something national coaches should think about.

rory, JP Pietersen has been playing 13 for the whole of the super XV and has settled in well, he has been looking to offload and in particular last weekend he was great on defence.

Frans steyn needs to settle at 12, he is at his most dangerous and best suited for that position, he can run hard just like jean de villiers but has better ball skills.

fa0019 wrote:biltongbek

Perhaps the boks should start using fringe players when facing weaker opposition outside of the RWC.

I.e. get more home matches vs. Italy, Scotland, Fiji, Samoa etc.

and then use up & coming players rather than have their first XV or close put 50 points on them.

By that you give experience to players who may not yet be ready and also prevent them from representing other nations.

Its been done before...

I recall a story about the great Jock Stein (Former Glasgow Celtic manager & first UK coach to lift the UEFA European Cup)... when he was asked if he had a choice of a Catholic or Protestant player of equal measure who would he pick he said

'The Protestant.... as (arch-rivals) Rangers would never sign the Catholic.

Its thinking like that which made him a champion and something national coaches should think about.

FA, I have always said this, if you play 12 test per year, and your bench is filled with one or two newbies and the starting 15 has one newby in the forwards and one newby in the backline, you can work with it, there is more than enough senior players to guide the youngsters.

That effectively means whether they satart or come on as replacements, you can build 48-60 caps of experience in a calendar year, no need to wait for weaker opposition.

I saw this coming. It´s sad that we never saw this legend operate at his true potential. Such ferocious power and good lines in his running. When he got a sniff of the line he proved to be unstoppable. Sadly he had to all too often bust his way through the line or run the right angle away from or in between the defence. He made Robbie Freuan look foolish on defence last year but he did it against quality test players as well. It´s a crying shame we never got to see his true attacking talents though.

We lost Thorn to Japan but he was in his 50s. Kaino left in his rugby prime even earlier than Jerry Collins. There´s enough money and talent coming through in Japan now to make the rugby more than a retirement home for international players. Japan is the holder of the Asia Cup and that includes the Pacific Island nations.

But like Kaino, I think it spells the demise of Fourie's international career. SA and NZ produce too much talent to step away from the game and then expect to come back in a couple of years. McAllister found that out as a case in point. F Steyn found just being away from the SA a few months tough going. The game evolves and players not involved lose touch of that.

He was my favourite Bok back and it´s a shame to see him go out in such fashion. He obviously is thinking of his future and the same happened to Kaino, Collins, Evans and Hayman who were players who left with a lot more to give. I don't want to label them traitors. Good luck to them. But their place in NZ rugby or in Fourie´s case SA rugby is greatly diminished. At least for me.

I don't want to label them traitors. Good luck to them. But their place in NZ rugby or in Fourie´s case greatly diminishes their place in the game. At least for me.

Sadly I have to agree with that. But they do say if you want loyalty, buy a dog.

That doesn´t always work with dogs. Cowan's off to Gloucester mate.

tut tut now Kia.

This Japanese thing has the potential to really damage the game. It is bad enough the French clubs buying everyone but at least in France players are still playing a top standard of rugby.

Players moving to Japan are essentially cashing in their chips and taking early retirement. When you see top guys like Kaino heading there in their prime that's really worrying.

As Brad Thorn said recently he had to adjust to rucking, scrummaging etc again at Leinster as the physicality is so much lower in Japan.

Well at the moment it seems to be an easy way of living whilst making a boatload full of money doing it.

Japan has the advantage of guaranteeing huge TV audiences. The sight of three huge Sumo Wrestlers squaring up opposite a similar front row for a scrum and then hearing squat, touch, engage and having the scrum set time and time again alone make it worthwhile tuning in. Europe and the SH can't compete with that. We only have Matt Dunning that I can think of.

Out of interest where is all the money coming from in Japanese rugby? Is it corporate sponsorship?

Its not as if the Japanese economy is particularly healthy?

Maybe Ollie le roux should make a comeback, he quite enjoyed a hamburger or two.

Well they recently gave a sizeable sum to the IMF to help stave off the euro crisis but the big corporations still have the money to throw around rodders.

Even so Kia I can't quite understand why Japan is able to pay so much more than everywhere else?

Are they pulling in big crowds at games or is it all about the TV audience?

Why is rugby so attractive to the Japanese corporations?

Maybe this will provide you an asnwer.

Some Japanese prized the game's values, seeing in them almost an expression of bushido's chivalric values. Bushidō meaning "Way of the Warrior-Knight", is a Japanese word which is used to describe a uniquely Japanese code of conduct and a way of the samurai life, loosely analogous to the concept of chivalry.

It originates from the samurai moral code and stresses frugality, loyalty, martial arts mastery, and honor unto death. Born from Neo-Confucianism during times of peace in Tokugawa Japan and following Confucian texts, Bushido was also influenced by Shinto and Buddhism, allowing the violent existence of the samurai to be tempered by wisdom and serenity

The growth of Japanese rugby in the early 20th century was astronomical - by the 1920s, there were nearly 1,500 rugby clubs, and more than 60,000 registered players, which meant that its resources were larger than those of Scotland, Wales and Ireland combined. Despite these extremely impressive figures, Japanese rugby was extremely isolated, and to an extent insular - the first rugby tours to Japan did not occur until the 1930s.


It seems rugby has always been popular in japan.

Cheers Biltong, the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fall (slowly) into place....

Well Toyota for example is sponsoring the national team. They get the rights to plaster their brand name in anything rugby related. After their safety issues, I imagine it makes sense to ally your brand with a sport that is associated with playing tough but playing fair.

Don't forget also that in 2019 Japan will host the World Cup and companies have a golden opportunity to be placed to take advantage of that international exposure. The more international players go to Japan and raise the game there, the better return for Japan rugby and their corporate backers. I think it´s more calculated than in France which seems more a p***ing contest between rich people.

Just read this Biltong,I thought he was injured as you say no one is irreplaceable.Players ARE coming back into contention whilst playing in Japan viz Fourie DuPreez,Nonu not yet fit Delaney on loan to Highlanders.Japan seem able to give teams a game if its a one of,not a sustained campaign.Not right to judge on the RWC form ,most Tier 2 sides suffered.

biltongbek wrote:

It seems rugby has always been popular in japan.

Even a couple of their Prime Ministers have been rugby players. One even became president of the Japanese RFU after stepping down from national politics (and no doubt used his clout to help secure the 2019 RWC).

they are only allowed 2-3 foreigners in the squad on any game i thought?

and there is money in their game i know honda sponsor a team