Is it time for Wales to drop Gethin Jenkins ?

It has come to light that Gethin Jenkins will not be eligible to play for most of the Welsh internationals he has revealed, the loosehead prop who has signed a two year deal with Toulon has said that he has not signed any clause for him to be released for Welsh duty and has signed a contract that might not necessarily release him for training camps and the what not. Is it now time that we looked at other options ? I know that Gethin is world class, but perhaps now we should look at younger more available options as it seems he has took the option of more money over future Wales prospects, you cannot blame him, because as they say, money talks.

Gethin is a prop isn't he?

biltongbek wrote:Gethin is a prop isn't he?

done In fairness he plays like an openside flanker.

man, you confused me there, I know Gethin and I know there is a Jones guy that is a flanker, but just couldn't get my head around this one.

Crikey, who would you have instead? Gill or James? Neither as good as Jenkins yet? Bit too early to confidently say that he shouldn't be picked, but I suppose it might come to that

Look he will be available for every Wales game because he has to be. That's the rules as laid down by the IRB.

I think Wales are being a it silly regarding being available for every minute of every training session. He will be selected.

But I do think that games like the one we have against the barbarians are an ideal time to give others some game time.

doctornick - well Wales aren't really. Phillips and Hook weren't available for all training sessions, but they were still included in the team and the starting one at that.

Gill showed up really well against Ireland, I wouldn't mind him getting more game time, but Geth is still number one.

The only internationals that Gethin will not be available for are ones that are arranged outside of the international windows. That he will not be available for all the training weekends was always going to be likely. After all there are rather a lot of them - and they seriousley disrupted the Welsh Regions efforts in Europe after they had made excellent starts.

However Wales should be looking to improve the depth in the front row - so should be looking at other props, cedrtainly againsgt the Barbarians.

The answer is clearly YES.
And Jones as well.
And certainly before you come to Australia.

boomeranga wrote:The answer is clearly YES.
And Jones as well.
And certainly before you come to Australia.

We have already lost Roberts and possibly JD2 for you.

And we dropped Gatland (from a great height)

606 - does it feel to you like we are getting in our excuses early?

Being serious I think that maybe it is time to give some game time to a younger loosehead (and tighthead too) in order to have some options for when Geth and Adam do go. Maybe the time to do that wold be the Baabaa's match and the extra AI matches.

What does Jenkins offer Wales? He's a decent scrummager, meaning he slots in excellently alongside Adam Jones for Wales and can hold his own in the scrum, yet when not backed up by a good tighthead he's not the toughest prop in the world to drive back.

He's known particularly for his mobility around the park. He can step forward and act as an additional flanker at the breakdown, indeed he's made some great steals in the past. He's also a very good tackler, highlighted in the England game in 09 and the NZ game the same year (I think). Even this year he's shown flashes of his best. For his size he's surprisingly agile, as he's demonstrated during and since the WC. His tries against Ireland in 05 and Namibia this year made him look like a back. He's even got a good boot on him.

He's worth having in the side for his experience and all those traits he offers. However many of said traits aren't necessarily required in a prop, although they're undoubtedly useful in any player. Jones, while being the pillar of this Welsh scrum over the last 7-8 years, isn't largely tested alongside a different partner than Geth for Wales. While I don't think that Geth should be dropped fulltime from the national side, it'd be well worth bringing Gill and Bevington into the fold more often, with Paul James standing by if needed.

wales606 wrote:

boomeranga wrote:The answer is clearly YES.
And Jones as well.
And certainly before you come to Australia.

We have already lost Roberts and possibly JD2 for you.

And we dropped Gatland (from a great height)

You normally expect to be without a few players dont you, but your coach??? Dear Warren, You're rich. Pay someone to clean your windows. From Wales.

boomeranga wrote:Dear Warren, You're rich. Pay someone to clean your windows. From Wales.

Press making mountains out of molehills.

No players have an international release clause they DO NOT EXIST.

The lads were all released for international camp per six nations, though returned on the weekends.

The French clubs are very amicable about release. It is players in England that we have to worry about because of the stupid PRL

"Is it time for wales to drop Gethin Jenkins"

No! what a ridiculous decision that would be! hes a world class rugby player, hes as good now as hes ever been! he should start for us in all the big test matches as hes the best player we have in his position, the right thing to do would be to give Rhys Gill a start against the ba'baas and against Fiji in the AI, also to try to give him a few stints off the bench against better opposition.

The French clubs are very amicable about release. It is players in England that we have to worry about because of the stupid PRL

It's all to do with the EPS agreement. The PRL follow the IRB regulations to the letter but any additional release outside of the normal international windows requires compensation (or for the RWC additional insurance). The WRU through a hissy fit over this previously despite the RFU having to follow the same principles for the release of English players. The English clubs are not as wealthy as the French clubs who have a plethora of talent in their squads and neither are they funded by their union. Hence they need to look after their interests and that includes using their assets (players) as effectively as possible which includes playing them when their available.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

The French clubs are very amicable about release. It is players in England that we have to worry about because of the stupid PRL

It's all to do with the EPS agreement. The PRL follow the IRB regulations to the letter but any additional release outside of the normal international windows requires compensation (or for the RWC additional insurance). The WRU through a hissy fit over this previously despite the RFU having to follow the same principles for the release of English players. The English clubs are not as wealthy as the French clubs who have a plethora of talent in their squads and neither are they funded by their union. Hence they need to look after their interests and that includes using their assets (players) as effectively as possible which includes playing them when their available.

Its Ransom money because they want more cash from the RFU. the WRU and all the other unions dont extort money from national unions for personal financial gain. Why should we all let England be an exception. The IRB should tell the PRL to stop this now.

The WRU pay the regions for the extra release time. Remember all that stuff about going to court over it? Surely you can't have forgotten it already it wasn't that long ago. Here's a link just in case LINK

Also release clauses DO exist as Haskell had one, which is why he stayed with England when Stade wanted him back.

Also this article says that the Welsh players were released for the 3 day camp in Poland before returning the clubs for the games the week before the Ireland game.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/01/05/mike-phillips-secures-release-for-wales-six-nations-training-camp-91466-30066063/

Of course the thing is the international window was changed a few years ago to include exactly this period. Therefore they released them only for what they had to. Exactly the same as the English clubs.

Read IRB regulations 9.7-9.13
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/lawsregs/regulations/04/23/27/42327_pdf.pdf

And finally Morgan went back to the Scarlets outside the window. Exactly the same as the English clubs do.

Back on the subject, Jenkins is experienced enough not to really need the extra time. Better to include him in the squad and train up another guy as well.

HammerofThunor wrote:Back on the subject, Jenkins is experienced enough not to really need the extra time. Better to include him in the squad and train up another guy as well.

Providing that he is not having to play in games when he is not needed as he is going to be having a rather physical test out in the T14

He'll have to play in the off weekends. But I'd still have him in the squad even if he's only on the bench for Wales.

Whether or not he has a clause he has to be released for the approved IRB windows so it will only be one game of a 4 game AI series and a few training camps.

The French seem a bit more open to negociation as was proved when all the 3 currently in france were released for at least part of the training camp.

Its never a bad thing to look for nad development replacements but for me he still warrants his place.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Whether or not he has a clause he has to be released for the approved IRB windows so it will only be one game of a 4 game AI series and a few training camps.

The French seem a bit more open to negociation as was proved when all the 3 currently in france were released for at least part of the training camp.

Its never a bad thing to look for nad development replacements but for me he still warrants his place.

The French had to release them for a 3 day training camp - its IRB regulations, and they can be called at anypoint in the year (I think its supposed to be for medical/fitness monitoring, but Gats used it to get them for training)

wales,

They were all allowed there for the first week of the two week Poland camp

Wales had a 2 week training camp before the 6ns

The second week was covered by the IRB release, as all 6N meet up to train.

The week prior to that was not, but ALL (including English based) Welsh players joined the camp for 3 days in that week (returning for the weekend game for their club) as a special training camp thingy under IRB regulations.

Yes and the French clubs were understanding of their Welsh players International aspirations and were happy to not have them back until the last minute and also not play them for 80 mins if they didn't want too due to their International obligations. I think only James Hook played a full 80 that weekend.

I am really not overly concerned about the French Clubs, they have huge squads, massive budgets and value players international ambitions.

The French clubs released them for the international window and that's it.

HammerofThunor wrote:The French clubs released them for the international window and that's it.

No the French clubs released all the welsh players before the irb window.

National Unions are allowed to request their players outside of the IRB windows for up to four days for training camps.

The French have always been more open to the release of players even when Alfie, Wellies and Charvis were playing there.

bedfordwelsh wrote:The French have always been more open to the release of players even when Alfie, Wellies and Charvis were playing there.

I definitely prefer that players who wish to go abroad go to France rather than elsewhere.

Yeah I am with you there Maes

There have been some very bizarre posts on welsh rugby, should we drop Geth and pick ol'nuggett...?

Feeling like I'm missing something.

Ok. They were released for 22nd January according to the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16427344

The first game was on 5th Feb.

The international window for the 6 nations includes the week before the first game (the Monday was the 30th January). The new IRB window that came into force a few years ago (2009 I think) included an additional 3 days the week before this. The BBC say that Byrne was released from 23rd to 25th and Phillips was released 22nd to 24th (both inclusive) so these dates fall within the window.

If you actually continue to read the article the Clermont spokesman Neil McIlroy says they HAVE to do the same for French and Italian players and they're not particular happy about it.

If you want I can quote the IRB regulations that are freely available on their website.

9.13 The Right to Release for Squad sessions pursuant to this Regulation 9 will
apply to three Squad sessions for up to 30 Senior National Representative
Team Players each calendar year each of a maximum of three consecutive
days (excluding travel). Such periods shall be in addition to the release
provisions for International Matches, International Tours and International
Tournaments. Such sessions shall be taken as set out below subject to the
three consecutive day periods not preventing a Player(s) from participating
in a Match for his Rugby Body or Club:
(a) For all Unions, Monday to Wednesday of the week preceding the
assembly period for the November window.
(b) For Northern Hemisphere Unions, Monday to Wednesday of the
week preceding the assembly period for the Northern Hemisphere
Release Period.
(c) For Southern Hemisphere Unions, Monday to Wednesday of the
week preceding the assembly period for the Southern Hemisphere
Release Period.
(d) The third squad session may be taken from a Monday to Wednesday
at the discretion of the Unions provided that the Union in which the
Player is Registered is notified of the dates for the third Squad
session prior to the commencement of the relevant season.

The only difference made was for Phillips to be released a day early and come back a day early.

If you can prove me wrong I'll happily admit it. If you can't will you do the same?