Newcastle v Saracens

First topic message reminder :

A critical game for bot sides as Falcons seek to maintain the pressure at the bottom of the table, and Sarries seek to gain the home semi final that for much of the season has looked all but guaranteed.

Falcons have been in good form, but Sarries reacted well to the two defeats to Quins and Clermont with a win last weekend. Normally a Friday night trip up north is one to induce slight worries, but Sarries hammered Sale a month or so ago after a Friday trip to the NW.



Sarries team announced, two changes with Farrell and Short replacing Hodgson and Michael Tagi:

Saracens team vs Newcastle Falcons

15 Alex Goode
14 David Strettle
13 Chris Wyles
12 Brad Barritt
11 James Short
10 Owen Farrell
9 Neil de Kock
1 Rhys Gill
2 Schalk Brits
3 Matt Stevens
4 Steve Borthwick ©
5 George Kruis
6 Jackson Wray
7 Will Fraser
8 Ernst Joubert

16 Jamie George
17 Mako Vunipola
18 Carlos Nieto
19 Mouritz Botha
20 Justin Melck
21 Richard Wigglesworth
22 Charlie Hodgson
23 Michael Tagicakibau

Falcons meanwhile are unchanged following victory at Gloucester. Golding, Vickers and Murray will be looking to put what has been a fragile Sarries front row recently under pressure.

Newcastle: 15 Greg Goosen, 14 Corne Uys, 13 Jamie Helleur, 12 James Fitzpatrick, 11 Ryan Shortland, 10 Jimmy Gopperth, 9 Peter Stringer, 1 Jonny Golding, 2 Rob Vickers, 3 Euan Murray, 4 James Hudson, 5 Tim Swinson, 6 Ally Hogg, 7 Will Welch, 8 Adam Balding

Replacements: 16 Matt Thompson, 17 Grant Shiells, 18 James Hall, 19 James Goode, 20 Taiasina Tu’ifua, 21 Mark Wilson, 22 Chris Pilgrim, 23 Tom Catterick

1/2 time. That was exciting wasn't it?

It's as legal as most rucks these days. Most have people off their feet and not bound properly.

It is dire but I'm sure you won't care if they end up winning (of course if they lose it'll be soul crushing, watching Poopie and not even winning)

Saracens turned down a £60k RFU offer to buy out A Farrell's contract.

They said it was 'derisory'.

I'd say it was generous (and stupid).

HammerofThunor wrote:It's as legal as most rucks these days. Most have people off their feet and not bound properly.

It is dire but I'm sure you won't care if they end up winning (of course if they lose it'll be soul crushing, watching Poopie and not even winning)

True that, just can't see it though. No penalties, field position or clean breaks.

Goppeth puts the ball out on the full again! That's about the third time falcons have done it?

Goosen and Jimmy are running a competition to see who can drop the ball the most, Goosen just edged in front.

Gopperth puts the ball out on the full for a THIRD time, but gets away with it because of a late hit.

The IRB have got to something about these extended rucks for the box kick, it's so slow and boring!

Borthwick really is an arse, he couldn't get to the floor quick enough.

Newcastle's tactic of making Sarries think they will kick everything almost paying off

I wouldn't have given that. But there you go.

The Falcons looking more incisive.

Handbags flying around.

JP calls the captains to pick up their purses.

Most interesting incident of the match.

Cumbrian wrote:The IRB have got to something about these extended rucks for the box kick, it's so slow and boring!

Binds should be up to the elbow at least.Stop new entrants coming in once the ball is secured.

Gopperth improving his play. Farrell invisible.

Portnoy wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:The IRB have got to something about these extended rucks for the box kick, it's so slow and boring!

Binds should be up to the elbow at least.Stop new entrants coming in once the ball is secured.

Agree with that.

It's every blooming time now.

Seems very harsh getting a yellow card for that.

I honestly can't believe that it has taken this long to get Fitzpatrick on the ball, by my reckoning this is the first time he's carried all game.

Give the pass Fitzy man! You could have just cost us the match!

Just not enough, why didn't they try to play until the last 15 minutes?

That was tough luck on Newcastle.

A superb last thirty from the Geordies.

I seriously do not want the Saracens to win anything. Their negativity is so massive.

And I hope that the Falcons stay up by hook or by crook.

That

was

40 minutes of my life

I will never get back.

Thank god I was home too late to see the first half.

Sorry Falcons but after that I think you need to go down. Just a shocking match all round really. While you're going could you take Saracens with you?

I wish I'd read this before getting up to watch the recording this mroning! I love rugby in all its forms but that was just tediously dire!

Good luck to Falcons the losing BP could be essential. Very disappointed in Sarries, but still wouldn't bet against them in the play offs...

Law changes need to be brought in regarding the ruck and players binding and the scrumhalf using his foot to tap the ball back like Stringer and the Sarries scrum halfs love to do. The minute they start doing that the ref should say ball out and let the opposition go for them.

Also something needs to be done about the lineouts and teams on their own throw stepping in to the gap then jumping, i'm sure it's not allowed and sarries did it just about every time, it completely negates any fair contest.

Having read reports I feel blessed that I didn't have to endure watching this last night.

LondonTiger wrote:I will never get back.

Thank god I was home too late to see the first half.

Think yourself lucky.
The second half was way better than the first, LT.

Suddenly the idea of a 10 team league seems a lot better, certain teams out there just do not add enough to the quality of the Prem to be included.

The laws don't need to be changed. Just penalise teams for not binding correctly. Also penalise them if the guy at the front is off his feet. He just needs to tell both side

If you want to play silly buggers with 10' rucks then be flawless otherwise I WILL penalise you

The reason the game was dire for me was because of the poor execution not the tactics. I find headless rugby with loads of knock-ons just as boring.

True true, just a total lack of skills or tactics from both teams other then kick and hope.

Good to see double standards are alive and well

Knackeredknees wrote:Good to see double standards are alive and well

Care to elaborate?

HammerofThunor wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Good to see double standards are alive and well

Care to elaborate?

When we(sarries) play and I will admit it dull negative but winning rugby were derided for it, yet if any other team decides to play negatively or protect a lead its called well thought out tactics and killing the game off and is a good thing. Look and the Quinn's game at wembely, Quinn's 3 yellows in the last 15 for negative play, yet the commentators called it body on the line commitment, today Barnes was advocating that youngs keep it at the back of a ruck for as long as possible to kill the game and waste time, yet complained that sarries did it last night.

Aren't most people complaining because the quality was low not the tactics (I certainly was).

To be fair in the Leicester Quins game there was plenty of attacking rugby to counteract any negative tactics

Won't argue about the quality last night and today's game was one of the best I've seen for a few weeks, but we're the ones criticized every week for something by sky, be it kick and chase, defense led attack or killing a game off it's always a bad thing for us to do, yet a marvelously fantastic tactic or weapon if it's done by another side. Mind you I should just ignore it as its just that bitter fat waste of oxygen Barnes, but he says it and it repeated as gospel

Ignore Barnes. Everybody else does

Mind you I should as my lasting memory is of him is being knocked on his fat arse by a 18yr old winger in a bath/sarries a league game then telling mr spreadbury that he was offside, only to be told no he was fine your just slow! It's a hit that always brings a smile to my face when I see the smug Muppet on tv

Knackeredknees wrote:Mind you I should as my lasting memory is of him is being knocked on his fat arse by a 18yr old winger in a bath/sarries a league game then telling mr spreadbury that he was offside, only to be told no he was fine your just slow! It's a hit that always brings a smile to my face when I see the smug Muppet on tv

HammerofThunor wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Mind you I should as my lasting memory is of him is being knocked on his fat arse by a 18yr old winger in a bath/sarries a league game then telling mr spreadbury that he was offside, only to be told no he was fine your just slow! It's a hit that always brings a smile to my face when I see the smug Muppet on tv

And he never brought me a pint in the club house after!! Tight Muppet,

That was one of the most boring games of rugby I have ever seen.

It was a win but I am left very unsatisfied with that.

I suppose here is a little consolation in beating a Newcastle side who essentially ripped off Saracen's shirt design and looked to rub this in on the night.


Both teams were dire in my opinion. It's more damning on Saracens though because this was the defending champions vs bottom of the league. Only need to look at the team sheet to see a disparity. Maybe I simply have high expectations but I expect better from Saracens.

I have grown ever more impatient with Saracen's negativity since the losses to Quins and Clermont. Both these teams brutally exposed Saracen's flaws yet the coaches do nothing. They stick to a rigid gameplan that most teams know how to counter.

Two tight wins over London Irish and Newcastle mean very little in the grand scheme of things.

Don't forget you lost Barritt in the warm up. I imagine that a lot of your attacking plays used the 12 and he was replaced with a different type of player so things had to change.

No excuse. You adapt. That's one thing Saracens never do.

Just a rigid gameplan. There is no Plan B if Plan A fails.

Plan A seems to win most games but the top teams can stop this.

Plus Plan A basically means the game involves lots of kicking, the score line being tight, virtually no tries (no try bonus points). Also means the fans can never rest easy or be satisfied that the game is won until that ball is kicked out.

If Saracens have aspirations to become a European force to match the likes of Leinster and Clermont they must adapt.

The confidence needs to be instilled in the players to attack with the ball in hand. It's frustating when you see talented players like Hodgson,Goode and Strettle being wasted.

What's the point in signing Ashton - a high profile attacking winger when we don't bloody attack!

If we continue to go down the boring route let's at least sign a bruising scrummaging prop!

What must be a concern for Sarries is that the midfield really lacked penetration and that the forwards rolling around to give options to Hodgson really didn't help. They need something whether it be a big boshing centre of another forward ball carrier who can come into the line as the back three look threatening (particularly Goode) but are limited to either slow phase ball or counter attacks from kicks. They must carry it over the gainline further out from the ruck and get some good ball to work some moves from.

Agree Sam. Especially about Goode. Best player on the pitch IMO. Excellent under the ball,great counter attacking and excellent tactical kicking.

Some players I would look at if we can poach them - Billy Vunipola and Elliot Daly.

I know Daly isn't a boshing centre but we need a 13.

B.Vunipola would join his big bro.

Knackeredknees wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Good to see double standards are alive and well

Care to elaborate?

When we(sarries) play and I will admit it dull negative but winning rugby were derided for it, yet if any other team decides to play negatively or protect a lead its called well thought out tactics and killing the game off and is a good thing. Look and the Quinn's game at wembely, Quinn's 3 yellows in the last 15 for negative play, yet the commentators called it body on the line commitment, today Barnes was advocating that youngs keep it at the back of a ruck for as long as possible to kill the game and waste time, yet complained that sarries did it last night.

My problem is that Sarries start from min-1 as being defensive.

That it why I am so pleased that A Farrell is not in the England set-up. Negativity does not begin to describe the Sarries general game plan.

They are horrible.

When Sarries forget the game plan and play what they see in front of them they can be incredible. That they have chosen to try and play safety first has at times this season back-fired on them and of course does not endear them to neutrals.