About v2F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
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Mad for Chelsea
CookinFlatSix
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F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
by cosicave Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:23 pm
I have never criticised a lack of overtaking in F1 - far from it; I appreciate how difficult it is. This makes a genuine, competitive overtake something to behold, and I appreciate that it will be rare.
The 'overtaking problem'
…is not F1's as such; it is a largely unappreciative audience who - due to their short attention spans - shout their thirst for trivial action and demand it be slaked every couple of minutes. However, in the effort to satisfy this superficiality, F1 risks further alienation of its fair-weather fan by making the whole 'show' even more challenging for them to understand. What F1 needs to do is educate its audience through persuading them to see its subtlety. In my opinion, this is never going to be achieved with cheap (or expensive!) gimmicks, but with a simplicity which first aims at increasing the relevance of its drivers. By way of example, more pit-stops is precisely the wrong way to go since it increases the importance of pit-crews relative to the driver.
Instead, if we emphasise the relevance of the driver, perhaps people might begin to appreciate what they're doing!
For instance
… if we're going to have KERS - which is fundamentally a very good thing - don't limit its capacity to recover energy, and do not limit the driver's choice on its deployment. This way it would not be a gimmick but a very serious, fully justified piece of kit. And before those who argue for at least 97% equality between teams, let's remember F1's roots eh? It never was any more equal than it is today and this is part of the reason we see relatively few competitive overtakes. Yes, KERS is a good thing if it is allowed to be used fully; but in its efforts to keep everyone equal, the FIA's meddling negates its fundamental purpose and renders it little more than trivial: something easy to call 'gimmick'.
Speaking of gimmicks
… we now have an even more obvious one don't we? Once again, this allegation is largely a result of a meddling dogmatism from the FIA, who insist on playing far too big a role. The purpose of the DRS (adjustable rear wing) is to increase overtaking. It is therefore logical to aim to provide advantage for the 'attacker' rather than the 'defender', and the one second rule - which makes good use of available technology - does indeed ensure that this occurs. However, artificially limiting a driver's capacity to use it (in FIA designated areas) can only impinge upon a driver's capacity to use it more creatively. Once again, it is a gimmick because the FIA play too much part, quite literally taking away 'driver power'.
If we're going to have a DRS system designed for overtaking, don't artificially limit it to one or two places; instead, allow the driver to use it WHERE HE SEES FIT!
POWER TO THE DRIVER !!! - It may also help the audience begin to appreciate them!
©
The 'overtaking problem'
…is not F1's as such; it is a largely unappreciative audience who - due to their short attention spans - shout their thirst for trivial action and demand it be slaked every couple of minutes. However, in the effort to satisfy this superficiality, F1 risks further alienation of its fair-weather fan by making the whole 'show' even more challenging for them to understand. What F1 needs to do is educate its audience through persuading them to see its subtlety. In my opinion, this is never going to be achieved with cheap (or expensive!) gimmicks, but with a simplicity which first aims at increasing the relevance of its drivers. By way of example, more pit-stops is precisely the wrong way to go since it increases the importance of pit-crews relative to the driver.
Instead, if we emphasise the relevance of the driver, perhaps people might begin to appreciate what they're doing!
For instance
… if we're going to have KERS - which is fundamentally a very good thing - don't limit its capacity to recover energy, and do not limit the driver's choice on its deployment. This way it would not be a gimmick but a very serious, fully justified piece of kit. And before those who argue for at least 97% equality between teams, let's remember F1's roots eh? It never was any more equal than it is today and this is part of the reason we see relatively few competitive overtakes. Yes, KERS is a good thing if it is allowed to be used fully; but in its efforts to keep everyone equal, the FIA's meddling negates its fundamental purpose and renders it little more than trivial: something easy to call 'gimmick'.
Speaking of gimmicks
… we now have an even more obvious one don't we? Once again, this allegation is largely a result of a meddling dogmatism from the FIA, who insist on playing far too big a role. The purpose of the DRS (adjustable rear wing) is to increase overtaking. It is therefore logical to aim to provide advantage for the 'attacker' rather than the 'defender', and the one second rule - which makes good use of available technology - does indeed ensure that this occurs. However, artificially limiting a driver's capacity to use it (in FIA designated areas) can only impinge upon a driver's capacity to use it more creatively. Once again, it is a gimmick because the FIA play too much part, quite literally taking away 'driver power'.
If we're going to have a DRS system designed for overtaking, don't artificially limit it to one or two places; instead, allow the driver to use it WHERE HE SEES FIT!
POWER TO THE DRIVER !!! - It may also help the audience begin to appreciate them!
©
cosicave- Posts : 67
Join date : 2011-03-14
Location : International
Re: F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
by CookinFlatSix Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:13 pm
Totally agree with the sentiments expressed here
F1 is more than just overtaking, the teams compete with technology as well
The best thing is when a driver can overtake despite unequal cars etc etc
When we see overtakers like Lewis or Koba it is that much more special, trying to cause more overtaking by contriving situations involving use of gadgets is farcical
Give the driver the technology to use as he likes not try and force him to use it at times that might excite the audience
Most of the audience at races paying large amounts love the sound and speed, they will miss most overtakes anyway
Better to leave overtaking to the driver
F1 is more than just overtaking, the teams compete with technology as well
The best thing is when a driver can overtake despite unequal cars etc etc
When we see overtakers like Lewis or Koba it is that much more special, trying to cause more overtaking by contriving situations involving use of gadgets is farcical
Give the driver the technology to use as he likes not try and force him to use it at times that might excite the audience
Most of the audience at races paying large amounts love the sound and speed, they will miss most overtakes anyway
Better to leave overtaking to the driver
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Re: F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
by Mad for Chelsea Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:15 am
Aws KERS actually designed as an overtaking aid or genuinely something that could make F1 cars greener? I forget. KERS works OK but not sure it adds to overtaking potential (surely cars going qicker on straights gives them less time to overtake).
You're spot on about the DRS, I don't mind the idea, but why limit it to certain parts of the track (I do get that the driver needs to be within a second, that's fine)? Doesn't make sense to me, but I feel that could change fairly quickly.
My main gripe is that these gimmicks are an attempt to hide the main problem with the lack of overtaking in F1, namely track design. Simply put, if all tracks were designed similarly to Albert Park rather than Bahrein, we'd have more overtaking...
You're spot on about the DRS, I don't mind the idea, but why limit it to certain parts of the track (I do get that the driver needs to be within a second, that's fine)? Doesn't make sense to me, but I feel that could change fairly quickly.
My main gripe is that these gimmicks are an attempt to hide the main problem with the lack of overtaking in F1, namely track design. Simply put, if all tracks were designed similarly to Albert Park rather than Bahrein, we'd have more overtaking...
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Re: F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
by cosicave Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:18 pm
Mad for Chelsea:
I agree that some tracks are far better for overtaking than others. Definitely. And the sooner Tilke gets some real competition, the better.
Your question about KERS:
It was primarily a nod to the greens in the interests of efficiency. Any overtaking potential it may offer is really a by-product. Nonetheless, if it was not restricted so much, it could become a very worthwhile avenue for engineers to exploit further and would then give a more genuine 'green' answer!
I agree that some tracks are far better for overtaking than others. Definitely. And the sooner Tilke gets some real competition, the better.
Your question about KERS:
It was primarily a nod to the greens in the interests of efficiency. Any overtaking potential it may offer is really a by-product. Nonetheless, if it was not restricted so much, it could become a very worthwhile avenue for engineers to exploit further and would then give a more genuine 'green' answer!
cosicave- Posts : 67
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Re: F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
by John Bloody Wayne Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:01 am
I just don't like the way whenever a new innovation comes about it's either banned or limited and regulated to the extent it may as well be a standardised par.
The F-duct was great, effective, provided overtaking and fairly cheap. So they banned it.
Ingenius diffuser trickery, banned.
Why crack down on every bit of variety.
The F-duct was great, effective, provided overtaking and fairly cheap. So they banned it.
Ingenius diffuser trickery, banned.
Why crack down on every bit of variety.
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Re: F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
by cosicave Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:38 pm
John Bloody Wayne wrote:…
Why crack down on every bit of variety.
Although I know the thinking behind it, this is really what I was getting at.
…It is done in the 'interests' of keeping the grid competitive and not allowing anyone to steal a march. But it should be obvious to all that this runs counter to the perennial criticism F1 leaves itself open to: fewer overtakes. Fine; that's how it always was. However, the demanding child who has little more than a superficial understanding of some of the finer points of motor racing, is still screaming for more obvious action!
Clearly these two concepts are at odds with one another. The audience wants to have is cake and eat it. But whilst we know that this is impossible, Bernie et al are hell bent on convincing their suitably confused audience by pretending to pull lots of rabbits from a hat - and those not taken in can see it is trickery gimmickry. If they want more rabbits from the hat, they must make the hat bigger or the rabbits smaller. - Either way, this is likely to cheapen the show.
KERS could genuinely help sell F1 (politically) if the technology was less restricted, but of course this leaves the possibility of some teams getting ahead and a less competitive grid. Meanwhile DRS could genuinely spice up the show. - It has the potential to help provide some of what the audience wants (overtaking) but once again we find that it is over-regulated. This is plain daft because as such an inexpensive and simple thing for all, there is no argument that it threatens parity between teams!
The present restriction holds them back as mere gimmicks to patronise an audience.
But use these technologies properly and we could have a win-win situation.
Last edited by cosicave on Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo/Syntax)
cosicave- Posts : 67
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Re: F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
by ML Mon May 09, 2011 12:17 am
When I first heard of the DRS plan - i was convinced that next Bernie would insist on every driver wearing oversized shoes, a red nose and 78 inch waste trousers held up with braces. In addition every car should also carry a bucket of custard and a wobbly ladder.
Bernie isnt interested in the sport. He is interested in the money it produces. Hence the gimmicks to produce "a spectacle".
Why not have the races scripted as in Pro Wrestling? Ooops, I hope he doesnt read that .
The sport has become a joke since Bernie took control. A shame, I had been following F1 since I was a very young child - my very earliest memories being family trips to Silverstone in the late 60s.
Bernie isnt interested in the sport. He is interested in the money it produces. Hence the gimmicks to produce "a spectacle".
Why not have the races scripted as in Pro Wrestling? Ooops, I hope he doesnt read that .
The sport has become a joke since Bernie took control. A shame, I had been following F1 since I was a very young child - my very earliest memories being family trips to Silverstone in the late 60s.
ML- Posts : 293
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Re: F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
by Schrodinger's Cat Tue May 10, 2011 6:08 pm
I really don't like all this tinkering. Let it be a pure race with the fastest driver/team combination emerging victorious.
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Join date : 2011-04-20
Re: F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
by dyrewolfe Fri May 13, 2011 2:32 pm
Think I'm with the majority here.
I understand F1 has always been about racing the most technologically advanced cars possible and that this doesn't always make for close, wheel-to-wheel racing.
Completely agree with cosicave that, in their search for the "perfect spectacle", The Powers That Be are in danger of alienating ALL F1 fans in their quest for ever greater numbers of viewers and track-going punters. If the rules are continually fiddled with and new gadgets devised to ensure more on-track action, the newcomers / fairweather fans will likely get confused, while the long-time fans will just get thoroughly disenchanted.
If F1 is to remain the pinnacle of automotive engineering, designers must have a fair amount of freedom to innovate and many of the current design restrictions must be done away with. In fact, I'd go as far as to state only 3 parameters need to be observed:
1. Overall car size / weight.
2. Engine capacity.
3. Aerodynamic restrictions (the bane of overtaking). I think you'd probably need to limit aero devices to fairly simple 80s style wings with a maximum surface area.
Other than that - they have free rein to do whatever they like. None of this rubbish about maximum power of "boost" devices, only being able to use them at certain times, no rules about having to use more than 1 tyre compound and teams could use refuelling if they wished.
Funny thing is, I'm enjoying this season so far, more than just about any other I can remember. The gadgets and the rules governing their use are doing their job and providing us with a great spectacle. However, the voice in the back of my mind, telling me how contrived it all is, just won't go away.
I understand F1 has always been about racing the most technologically advanced cars possible and that this doesn't always make for close, wheel-to-wheel racing.
Completely agree with cosicave that, in their search for the "perfect spectacle", The Powers That Be are in danger of alienating ALL F1 fans in their quest for ever greater numbers of viewers and track-going punters. If the rules are continually fiddled with and new gadgets devised to ensure more on-track action, the newcomers / fairweather fans will likely get confused, while the long-time fans will just get thoroughly disenchanted.
If F1 is to remain the pinnacle of automotive engineering, designers must have a fair amount of freedom to innovate and many of the current design restrictions must be done away with. In fact, I'd go as far as to state only 3 parameters need to be observed:
1. Overall car size / weight.
2. Engine capacity.
3. Aerodynamic restrictions (the bane of overtaking). I think you'd probably need to limit aero devices to fairly simple 80s style wings with a maximum surface area.
Other than that - they have free rein to do whatever they like. None of this rubbish about maximum power of "boost" devices, only being able to use them at certain times, no rules about having to use more than 1 tyre compound and teams could use refuelling if they wished.
Funny thing is, I'm enjoying this season so far, more than just about any other I can remember. The gadgets and the rules governing their use are doing their job and providing us with a great spectacle. However, the voice in the back of my mind, telling me how contrived it all is, just won't go away.
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Re: F1; Gimmicks; Overtaking: FIA v drivers?
by cosicave Sun May 15, 2011 4:51 pm
dyrewolfe wrote:
…Funny thing is, I'm enjoying this season so far, more than just about any other I can remember. The gadgets and the rules governing their use are doing their job and providing us with a great spectacle. However, the voice in the back of my mind, telling me how contrived it all is, just won't go away.
Quite.
And very appropriate that you, dyrewolfe, finish on this note.
Ultimately, this is the bottom line and the purists amongst must acknowledge that whilst we may prefer what we might think of as something more authentic, what we have is presently working - in the sense that, however contrived, it is improving the spectacle.
P.S. I wrote this article based on the ingredients I saw going into the oven. Now, as we peer through the window, our cake seems to be rising nicely; except for the cherry on top called Vettel which looks set to burn to a cinder(ella)! …
cosicave- Posts : 67
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Location : International
Similar topics» Gimmicks.
» Worst Gimmicks...
» Mini Drivers
» Hope for genuine wheel to wheel racing and real overtaking in the future
» tyres, engines and drivers.
» Worst Gimmicks...
» Mini Drivers
» Hope for genuine wheel to wheel racing and real overtaking in the future
» tyres, engines and drivers.
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