Clermont vs Leinster thread and how to delay a plane...

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

First topic message reminder :

So this is the big one, huge one, massive one!
Some are calling this the unofficial final.

Two powerhouses in European Rugby and arguably the best two teams in the competition coming together.

Recent tussles have favoured Leinster who beat Clermont in the Aviva convincingly enouugh and in the RDS by the skin of their teeth with James missing a good few kicks at goal. Clermont beat Leinster in France but the visitors managed to get a crucial LBP.

Huge match ups all over the field.

The entire front rows
Hines vs Thorn
Sexton vs James
Rougerie vs O'Driscoll
Kearney vs Byrne

Home advantage sees Clermont the slight favourites but they have moved the game to Bordeaux.

Thoughts on who can win it?
Team you want to see?
Where the game can be won for each side?
Ref?
Rant?

Let it all come out here.

I have a tiny bit of a huge problem here also:
I (like a fool) decided to go to Budapest this weekend. My return flight leaves at 17:25 Hungarian time (also French time).
My question is...how do I delay a plane......?

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Vosloo out, as are Domingo, Ric and Floch, Possibly Bardy too. They still look good though.

This is a possible team. Perhaps the back row starting to creak a little on the bench esp.

Lionel Faure
Benjamin Kayser
David Zirakashvili
Julien Pierre
Nathan Hines
Julien Bonnaire
Alexandre Lapandry
ElvisVermeulen

Morgan Parra
Brock James
Sitiveni Sivivatu
Wesley Fofana
Aurélien Rougerie (c)
Julien Malzieu,
Lee Byrne,

Ti'i Paulo
Vincent Debaty
Daniel Kotze
Jamie Cudmore
Julien Bardy/Alexandre Audebert
Kevin Senio
David Skrela/Jordan Martins Dazy
Jean-Marcellin Buttin

[caoimhincentre]

That is one serious back line

[Mickado]

Nice one Pete!

Gerhard Vosloo (backrow) is injured and will miss the game but they still have Bonnaire, Lapandry, Vermulen and Jason White.

[rodders]

That is one serious back line

Aye on paper maybe but I think this season has shown that there is now a gap between Leinster and the rest.

The question is, is home advantage and a bit of rain enough of a leveller for Clermont? Maybe. Maybe not.

If Leinster can hold their own up front they will blow Clermont away imo, however if Clermont crush the Leinster pack then the reverse could happen.

Leinster really showed their mettle and grit against Montpellier so that will stand them in good stead I think, particularly that 15 minute sustained spell in Dublin where Montpellier laid siege on their line and Leinster didn't flinch. Thats the stuff of champions and shows how far this side has come even from the 2009 winning side. Clermont have much more firepower out wide than Montpellier but if Ulster could match them, and they did, then Leinster certainly can.....

Can't wait for this one, really hoping for a Leinster v Ulster final!

[Mickado]

Michael Corcoran is saying the forecast is for sun on Sunday.

Don't know who that suits more but it certainly is good news for us.

[BoyneRFC]

Looking like 70% chance of rain-

http://www.meteo-bordeaux.com/previsions.php

[rodders]

Michael Corcoran is saying the forecast is for sun on Sunday.

Don't know who that suits more but it certainly is good news for us.

Well definitely it suits Leinster more with their multi phase attacking game.... less scrums and lineouts.

Leinster by 12 .

[rodders]

Looking like 70% chance of rain-

http://www.meteo-bordeaux.com/previsions.php

Jeebus lads make up your mind.....

Clermont by 9 .

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I think rain would suit us more than sun tbh. make it hard for their backs to get moving and also it turns into a kicking duel to an extent and our back 3 are much better kickers than theirs.

yes it would hamper our attack and man for man their backs are considerably bigger and more powerful but I think we could affect a squeeze in the tight and we are one of the most disciplined teams around

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Also following on from what we were saying on the first page of this thread, with all those injuries the Clermont team still remains very strong but their bench is severely weakened without some of those guys who are now starting.

My leinster team to play Clermont (in the rain) the strategy being to hold and tire them in the first 55/60 before cutting loose.

VDM-Strauss-Ross
Cullen-Thorn
McL-Heaslip-SOB
Boss-Sexton
McFadden-BOD
Fitz-Kearney-Nacewa

Cronin-Healy-White-Toner-Jenno-Reddan-Madigan-Kearney Jr.

The idea being to keep them pinned back with a very effective kick chase game and make it hard for them to get out of their own half. Attack when the opportunity arises and to use variants of one off runners to keep the ball within the ruck to 12 channel. (runners off 9, runners off forwards, runners off Sexton only as far out as 12 channel)

When kicking I think it should be heavily varied and in particular kick from 12 and 13 so that the wingers are forced to come up and make counterattacking much more difficult.

In defence I'd come up fairly quickly then fix and drift BOD will be crucial here. Taking down guys like Fofanna and Rougerie early will be key so they can't use leg drive. Same for Malzieu.

[SecretFly]

Rain?...................... No, rain fuddles handling and Leinster's total potency oozes through exceptional handling in tight and out wide. That Leinster's mechanism and I don't think they function nearly as well when they have to suck back in the invention and play conservatively.

We're Irish so muck and rain on their backs won't kill them but it will tamper with their sharper instincts and I think they'll need those instincts to find gaps in the Clermont defence.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I'd consider the Clermont backs more dangerous than ours by more than a bit

[rodders]

No chance Pete, if you guys get a platform up front and are able to get quick ball then you'll have them chasing shadows man, they won't know whats hit them

[Mickado]

My major concern is that we haven’t come up against a team like them in Europe this year.

It’s all very well and good being able to beat them, but will we be prepared for what they can throw at us.

The SF against Toulouse last year is probably the best game of rugby I’ve ever attended, I honestly don’t care if this one is 80 minutes of fat fellas falling over with a half time drop goal to win it. as long as we’re on the right side of the scoreboard.

[sirBiggles]

My question is...how do I delay a plane......?

Well you could sign Henson... that might work.

[rodders]

My major concern is that we haven’t come up against a team like them in Europe this year.

Neither have they Mick, true you've had the easier run but they've been beaten twice and but for some hometown refereeing may have been beaten a 3rd (if I do say so myself).

Yes they did a number of Saracens, but to quote the lovely Shania Twain....

"That don't impress-a-me much"

Don't put these guys on a pedestan man, you've got the form, just trust that if you do your thing and play your own game then that will be enough .

[SecretFly]

They're good - we're good. Rodders is right - too much 'respect' for reputations and not enough respect for 'reputations'.

Leinster are the side that have won the HC twice, Leinster are the side that certainly knows what TOUGH HC games are - they're no stranger to them in the overall scheme of things - if a little lacking in knowledge of them this year.

Leinster too are the consistent ones despite the changes of coaches and new players drifting through and passing on. Hines leaves and we still functioned; Elsom left and we still functioned; Contepomi left and we still functioned, Cheka left and we still functioned.

The certainty is not the coaches or the transiting players - the certainty is that Leinster rugby has a reputation built on more than illusion and sometimes we should just admit to it.

We constantly say it's the negative thought processes that stop our International team from achieving the big wins, the willingness to play underdog, the fear of being favourite, the reticence in admitting you feel confident in your own abilities.

We really need to lift ourselves out of that mentality at International and Provincial level. I don't like crowing or boasting, it doesn't come natural and it never really will with the majority of Irish people (and I like that trait in us) - but we should admit that when Leinster lands in France and when the Clermont/French crowd witness them running onto the field, they'll be looking at players with 'reputations' - real ones in terms of HC history. We shouldn't gloat but neither should we sink our heads too deeply into the dirt and salivate at what Clermont has to offer.

They're good - we're good - let the game decide who is better this year.

[Mickado]

Pin that up on the dressing room wall.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Pin that up on the dressing room wall.

+1

I really don't think our backs our better than theirs, we may have a better "team" attacking game but I think their backs would be better than ours by a good bit apart from 10 and 15.

I really think we should employ a kicking game and aim to pin them back and perhaps play screens to McFadden and O'Driscoll who can then weigh up the idea of going wide if the wingers are back and release Kearney, nacewa and co or if the wingers are up to make the tackles then put the kicks in behind.

On their lineout (if we play kicking game lineout will be hugely important) I think we should really try and have a man up at the front to negate any driving mauls or at least make the throw more difficult to the tail.
With regards to the middle and the tail I would play a defensive alternation pattern of two plays. The first challenging for the lineout using probably Cullen with out best lifters to challenge for the ball. The second keep guys on the ground at the tail/middle and have a player like Heaslip or McLaughlin (quick but tall) going out to block the pass from Parra to James. The rest of our guys need to hold their positions or else Parra will go between Heaslip and the tail of the lineout.

Strong lineout defence could surrender possession but render it less useful and make them kick (they are worse kickers than us) away

[Golden]

Wouldnt say they have a superior back line Pete. The way i see it is

9. Reddan/Boss vs Parra- Parra
10. Sexton vs James- Sexton
11. Fitz vs sivivatu- Sivivatu
12. Darcy/McFadden vs Fofana- Fofana
13. BOD vs Rougerie- Evens
14. Nacewa vs Malzieu- Nacewa
15. Kearney vs Byrne- Kearney

Thats 3 each. And the only Clermont back that i would say is comfortably better than the Leinster counterpart is Fofana.

[Feckless Rogue]

The thing is I think we may have a clear weak link in D'arcy. The ASM backline is strong across the board.

I think it'll be decided by the packs though. Whichever back line gets the best opportunities from the work of their pack will score the most points. If the packs match each other it will come down to the kickers.

That said, both back lines are capable of producing some magic out of nowhere. Especially our back three and their centres. It's just to hard to call this one.

[BoyneRFC]

Interesting to see that the ASM CA fans seem to want the "H-Cup" more than they do the Top 14- http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Top-14-ou-h-cup/278026

Ive seen this in the French media a lot recently. It seems to be a one or the other choice. They seem to think winning the both is basically impossible...

[Feckless Rogue]

Sure we failed to do it last year. And in France they can potentially have a playoff quarter final too, if they don't finish in the top 2.

It's not impossible. Just really hard. I thought we played well against Munster in the PRO12 final. Threw everything at them. But they just put in an epic defence and killed us off when we tired. Great game from them too.

[SecretFly]

Fofana ... not sure I'm willing to buy the publicity on him. Haven't seen a whole helluvalot of him but what I have seen are moments of magic and moments of criminal team negligence in the pursuit of personal glory.

A mixed bag of tricks for now.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Sure we failed to do it last year. And in France they can potentially have a playoff quarter final too, if they don't finish in the top 2.

It's not impossible. Just really hard. I thought we played well against Munster in the PRO12 final. Threw everything at them. But they just put in an epic defence and killed us off when we tired. Great game from them too.

The top 2 are Clermont and Toulouse. No one can catch them. Even mathematically. 2 games left they are both on 82 and third place Toulon are on 65.

So they will have a week off after the HC final. And the week before it they can put the under 15s out as they can't be caught.

Trouble is there are 23 angry Leinster men who will go to the death to give them an extra week off in there.

[rodders]

Its official.....


LEINSTER ARE IN CRISIS. .....

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Fofana ... not sure I'm willing to buy the publicity on him. Haven't seen a whole helluvalot of him but what I have seen are moments of magic and moments of criminal team negligence in the pursuit of personal glory.

A mixed bag of tricks for now.

+ 1 Weak in defence imho. Rougerie not the best either. and their wingers are not great on the back foot either despite being fecken huge and gifted in attack.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

As we said on the morning of 2/5/09......... Believe!

[Mickado]

If Rougerie is on the back foot...jackpot

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

As we said on the morning of 2/5/09......... Believe!

[Rava]

Oooohhhh I can sense the nerves running through this article and it's only Tuesday

[rodders]

Massive boost for Leinster....... Gusgott has tipped Clermont!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17815871

[Goosestepper]

Is there any mode of communication you can use on a plane?
Any at all?

Check to see if BBC world service or the like are covering the game. You could probably buy a small long wave radio and tune in.

I remember growing up in the middle east in the late 80's listening to lots of games on radio particularly Italia '90 its actually pretty cool!

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Goosestepper that is a good plan. Do you think I can use that on a plane? It boards at 5:20 and takes off at 5:50

[Pal Joey]

There is a great little underground sportsbar on Dohany utca... I watched the Lions get hammered by the ABs on the big screens there.

If it means so much to you I'd just change the flight. Can you do that or do hefty additional costs apply?

[BoyneRFC]

If you have travel insurance you can "miss" the plane if you are ill or something..

Either that or just get locked on the plane and try to forget about it!

[SecretFly]

Just get on the bloody plane!

Or, to paraphrase the words of Tom Berenger to the wounded soldier: "TAKE THE PLANE!!"

How's that for original advice on this one???

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Haha! Being sick would be a good one! I checked changing my flight but the next one is Monday evening and can't get Monday off work.

What technically happens if you leave your phone on, on a plane and recieve and send messages?

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Read a few articles there on the game and Sexton really seems to be on the war path!

[Mickado]

Haha! Being sick would be a good one! I checked changing my flight but the next one is Monday evening and can't get Monday off work.

What technically happens if you leave your phone on, on a plane and recieve and send messages?

Technically nothing. Your phone won’t pick up signal at that height. Trying to send out a signal “could interfere with airplane instrumentation”, not sure if that’s true or a scare story but the gist of this is that you won’t get any info on your phone unless they have wifi on the plane, which they almost certainly don’t.

[SecretFly]

Haha! Being sick would be a good one! I checked changing my flight but the next one is Monday evening and can't get Monday off work.

What technically happens if you leave your phone on, on a plane and recieve and send messages?

Technically nothing. Your phone won’t pick up signal at that height. Trying to send out a signal “could interfere with airplane instrumentation”, not sure if that’s true or a scare story but the gist of this is that you won’t get any info on your phone unless they have wifi on the plane, which they almost certainly don’t.

Isn't all of what you've just said the very reason why some conspiracy theorists think all was not as it seemed to be with the 911 planes. People freely ringing their families with their personal cellphones.

[Mickado]

I’ve heard that before Fly, not sure the theory holds water. All of the 9/11 flights were taken over shortly after takeoff, so I suppose you might be able to pick up signal there. Once you get to cruising altitude (after 15 / 20 mins) you’d be out of range.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Mick are you a pilot!?

No one has really mentioned how many leinster fans are said to be going over? Anyone have an idea? Anyone on here going over?

[rodders]

Mick are you a pilot!?

..or a mobile phone salesman......

[Mickado]

I’m neither. But I’ve left my phone turned on while on a plane (by mistake) and I received the txt message from the foreign carrier while I was still in the air. So you can get signal but you have to be virtually on the ground before it comes in.

Leinster said in their twitter account that between 1500 and 2000 Leinster fans are expected to make the trip. Decent number considering the distance.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Aye it is and the price. I can remember them posting trying to get loads of seats together as well. So our support is going to be well and truly outnumbered then? Was there not some system where there had to be a ratio divide in tickets for home away teams like 7:3 or something?

[BoyneRFC]

Mick are you a pilot!?

No one has really mentioned how many leinster fans are said to be going over? Anyone have an idea? Anyone on here going over?

Oh yeah. I'll be there.

Dublin- La Rochelle + Bordeaux - Dublin + train + accommodation = EUR 235

I booked everything at half time during the Sarries Clermont game...

[Mickado]

Mick are you a pilot!?

No one has really mentioned how many leinster fans are said to be going over? Anyone have an idea? Anyone on here going over?

Oh yeah. I'll be there.

Dublin- La Rochelle + Bordeaux - Dublin + train + accommodation = EUR 235

I booked everything at half time during the Sarries Clermont game...

Clever barsteward. I was abroad that weekend so could do nout.

Pete, the tickets for semi finals are split roughly 50/50, but obvioulsy Leinster couldn't sell 50% of them so they returned a lot.

[whocares]

according to one of the Nathan Hines interview I read, there would be approx 2000 Leinster supporters and approx 20000 ASM fans (stadium can accomodate 35000).

[BoyneRFC]

according to one of the Nathan Hines interview I read, there would be approx 2000 Leinster supporters and approx 20000 ASM fans (stadium can accomodate 35000).

Yes, but I have a very big mouth and a massive set of lungs...

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