Clermont vs Leinster thread and how to delay a plane...

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

First topic message reminder :

So this is the big one, huge one, massive one!
Some are calling this the unofficial final.

Two powerhouses in European Rugby and arguably the best two teams in the competition coming together.

Recent tussles have favoured Leinster who beat Clermont in the Aviva convincingly enouugh and in the RDS by the skin of their teeth with James missing a good few kicks at goal. Clermont beat Leinster in France but the visitors managed to get a crucial LBP.

Huge match ups all over the field.

The entire front rows
Hines vs Thorn
Sexton vs James
Rougerie vs O'Driscoll
Kearney vs Byrne

Home advantage sees Clermont the slight favourites but they have moved the game to Bordeaux.

Thoughts on who can win it?
Team you want to see?
Where the game can be won for each side?
Ref?
Rant?

Let it all come out here.

I have a tiny bit of a huge problem here also:
I (like a fool) decided to go to Budapest this weekend. My return flight leaves at 17:25 Hungarian time (also French time).
My question is...how do I delay a plane......?

[kunu]

It's pointless to observe one aspect without considering what brought it about.

+1

[Guest]

sure thing Kunu, but sometimes it is just down to individual errors. I'm not taking anything away from Leinster here, but at some points, even when not under pressure, the errors were there. Tis all I'm saying

[stevetynant]

bet Kidneys enjoying this 2 / 3 of his squad hitting lumps out of each other before they go down under- lets hope for a fantastic final with no injuries then.

[rodders]

Well done Leinster! Almost blew it there!

Bring on the final!!!

SUFTUM!

[Notch]

bet Kidneys enjoying this 2 / 3 of his squad hitting lumps out of each other before they go down under- lets hope for a fantastic final with no injuries then.

I'm confused. Is there a veterans rugby tournament in Limerick the day of the final or something?

[MrsP]

bet Kidneys enjoying this 2 / 3 of his squad hitting lumps out of each other before they go down under- lets hope for a fantastic final with no injuries then.

I'm confused. Is there a veterans rugby tournament in Limerick the day of the final or something?

[kingjohn7]

Eirebilly-u r a legend thanks. Well done Leinster

[LordDowlais]

Well, some things I learnt about Leinster today. Firstly, Brian O'Driscoll has still got it, Kearney is a definate for the 15 Lions jersey, Leinsters Irish props are rubbish, Gordon D'Arcy needs to be replaced, and Leinster have now cemented their place along side the Leicester of old and Toulose as the greatest sides in Europe. Stand out players for Leinster today were, Brad Thorn, Brian O'Driscoll, Rob Kearney, Van der Mewe(spelling) and Sexton.

[JacoFourie2012]

Wayne Barnes- You were shocking!

Forward pass in the first half for Clermont - Not a chance! Stopped the game. Probably had a 100 people turn of their televisions there and then!

Heaslip interfering with the jumper in the lineout at almost every line out? No didn't expect you to spot that.

Leinster's entry from the side habitually at the rucks!

Turned what could have been a classic into the kind of game that made people I knew who were waiting to be convince by rugby off.

[Knowsit17]

People need to stop being so precious and sensitive when it comes to the breakdown. Some must be scrutinising the heck out of it and neglecting the rest of the game because I for one don't notice so much of this criminal activity that's constantly reported.

It's an area that's easy to exploit and exploiting it is more or less an accepted part of the game in many quarters. It's such a fragile margin between legal and illegal that nobody is going to bother being that careful. Play the ref as Leinster did well today.

[SecretFly]

Well, some things I learnt about Leinster today. Firstly, Brian O'Driscoll has still got it, Kearney is a definate for the 15 Lions jersey, Leinsters Irish props are rubbish, Gordon D'Arcy needs to be replaced, and Leinster have now cemented their place along side the Leicester of old and Toulose as the greatest sides in Europe. Stand out players for Leinster today were, Brad Thorn, Brian O'Driscoll, Rob Kearney, Van der Mewe(spelling) and Sexton.

I think Toulouse with 4 wins and 2 runner up spots is still by some margin the top dog as regards HC history. But if Leinster win this year then the three wins in four years (and no runner-up spot) might close the gap with Toulouse. Long way to go though. Nothing is written in stone about the final.

[SecretFly]

Wayne Barnes- You were shocking!

Turned what could have been a classic into the kind of game that made people I knew who were waiting to be convince by rugby off.

So the people who you 'knew' were waiting to be convinced by rugby and yet knew all the little nuances about the game to be able to be disgusted by what the ref was doing? I'd say they're pretty knowledgeable rookie observers.............. or simply guys who wanted Clermont to win

[Gibson]

"Clermont have had too many dropped passes in the mid field. Every time they've been in a good position, they've taken all the momentum out of their own game."

And who do you think is responsible for that? I think you'll find that messrs D'arcy and O'Driscoll have just proven themselves again on the toughest of stages - a top class French team away in a HC semi final.

Why does anyone think that top class coaches persevere with D'arcy? Obviously he plays better with O'Driscoll (and who wouldn't?) but he does so much more around the field than he is given credit for.

Leinster's biggest advantage is the quality of their defence - they have a self-belief that is based on their ability to keep teams out and D'arcy is an integral part of that.

Spot on Kiaow. Schmidt has him there for good reason. He does not do sentiment at any level. Dorce was brilliant in defence and his tackle on Fofana saved us from certain defeat.

[Knowsit17]

"Clermont have had too many dropped passes in the mid field. Every time they've been in a good position, they've taken all the momentum out of their own game."

And who do you think is responsible for that? I think you'll find that messrs D'arcy and O'Driscoll have just proven themselves again on the toughest of stages - a top class French team away in a HC semi final.

Why does anyone think that top class coaches persevere with D'arcy? Obviously he plays better with O'Driscoll (and who wouldn't?) but he does so much more around the field than he is given credit for.

Leinster's biggest advantage is the quality of their defence - they have a self-belief that is based on their ability to keep teams out and D'arcy is an integral part of that.

Spot on Kiaow. Schmidt has him there for good reason. He does not do sentiment at any level. Dorce was brilliant in defence and his tackle on Fofana saved us from certain defeat.

As did Fofana's failure to keep hold of the ball a split-second longer in fairness but luck sometimes tends to go the way of the better side, which Leinster were by a mile in the second half despite the narrow scoreline.

And you're certainly right, D'Arcy got his positioning right and also helped to put Fofana in an awkward position when trying to touch down which will have helped.

[Feckless Rogue]

True Gibson. D'arcy is clearly retained for his defensive work. But it's equally clear that he's not being retained because of his attacking game. He's being retained in spite of it. He was a great player in his day. He was once even briefly equal to O'Driscoll in the influence he had in both attack on defence.

But age has clearly caught up with him like it does with everyone (even O'Driscoll unfortunately). I'd like to see a changing of the guard in the centre next season. Because soon D'arcy's nous in defence won't make up for his limitations in attack.

Every dog has its day. We've seen the ROG, D'arcy, BOD midfield get killed by the younger, fitter, faster, stronger Welsh in the RWC quarter final. We need to replace D'arcy and O'Driscoll soon. Very soon. One at a time. D'arcy first, next year. O'Driscoll the season after.

I was genuinely upset to hear Shaggy retired. I'll be the same for D'arcy and O'Driscoll. But as much as I'll miss them, it doesn't change the fact that their time is nearly up.

[Gibson]

Its true Feckless. Ive been saying it too for a bit. Its just that their partnership has altered to suit to their weaknesses and strengths. One more Final hurrah and they need to be wound down next season.

I want to see more of O' Malley and McFadden in the HC next year. It will happen. Schmidt is ruthless behind that smile.

Sexton called that movement for the try, at HT, btw. Worked like a dream. He is a natural leader that fella. We will lose him & Kearney to the Lions for sure.

[Knowsit17]

I thought BOD showed today and last time he played for Ireland that he's still got it and should be well in contention for the Lions. Would be interesting to see what happens if he and Roberts resume their partnership at some stage during the tour.

He adds an extra leadership figure to the equation and has an uncanny knack of being in the right place at the right time, even if he has understandably lost some pace with age.

[aucklandlaurie]

Do any of you guys know if anyone has won a World cup winners medal, a Super rugby medal and Heineken cup medal before?

I cant think of any but maybe a South African has..,

[maestegmafia]

Well Done Leinster...!

[kunu]

Wayne Barnes- You were shocking!

Turned what could have been a classic into the kind of game that made people I knew who were waiting to be convince by rugby off.

So the people who you 'knew' were waiting to be convinced by rugby and yet knew all the little nuances about the game to be able to be disgusted by what the ref was doing? I'd say they're pretty knowledgeable rookie observers.............. or simply guys who wanted Clermont to win

great point Secretfly. Seems to be a lot of sour grapes, even from neutrals, having had a read a few other forums. People get bored with watching the same team win i suppose. A lot of emphasis is being put on the hesitation to give leinster a yellow, and that cullen was lucky to escape one. I think if people watch the leinster try, and keep an eye out for boss after strauss passes to kearney, they'll see him get taken out ridiculously late and 15+ metres off the ball, with an illegal no arms tackle, looks pretty nasty. Far worse than what cullen did.

[Artful_Dodger]

Do any of you guys know if anyone has won a World cup winners medal, a Super rugby medal and Heineken cup medal before?

I cant think of any but maybe a South African has..,

Brad Thorn could capture an amazing achievement, but spare a thought for Stefan Terblanche at Ulster, if the guy leaves with a Heineken Cup winners medal having signed a 3 month injury cover contract with Ulster it will be an amazing achievement. Don't think he's won a Super Rugby tournament which Thorn has but it would still be unbelievable.

[Feckless Rogue]

Yeah BOD still has it. For now. Could be in contention for the Lions. I just thought the old ROG/D'arcy/BOD midfield was exploited by the Welsh. Put Sexton inside BOD and Roberts outside his and he still has the brain to get the most out of their power and pace.

He showed it for Leinster in the last two seasons. He makes the space for Sexton and Sexton has the pace to exploit it. BOD uses the the younger mans legs to do what his can't do anymore. He brought out the most of Roberts pace and power too on the last Lions tour.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Well, some things I learnt about Leinster today. Firstly, Brian O'Driscoll has still got it, Kearney is a definate for the 15 Lions jersey, Leinsters Irish props are rubbish, Gordon D'Arcy needs to be replaced, and Leinster have now cemented their place along side the Leicester of old and Toulose as the greatest sides in Europe. Stand out players for Leinster today were, Brad Thorn, Brian O'Driscoll, Rob Kearney, Van der Mewe(spelling) and Sexton.

I don't think Sexton had a great game, but he was much better in the 2nd half. Brad Thorn and Sean O'Brien are the only 2 forwards who can really feel proud of their performances IMO. They both did all the hard work. They were essential today.

[Feckless Rogue]

On the sour grapes, it's inevitable and natural. Nobody likes to see Man United win the league. Nobody likes to see the All Blacks win. In fact in this match a few sour grapes are even understandable. Leinster did get the rub from the ref. But they still scored when they had to and defended their hearts out like they had to. You never know, if they went down to 14 men they might have scored a couple of tries! They've done it before.

The last gasp win against Clermont in 2010. The last gasp defence against Saracens last year. The comeback against Toulouse. The amazing comeback against Saints in last years final. You simply can't fluke these things repeatedly. Leinster have heart and bottle and skill and cohesion in equal measure. They're a great side.

[kunu]

Well put sir

[Guest]

Oh dear.

[Feckless Rogue]

Look at this poor chap

Spoiler:

That's three years in a row we've knocked them out. They must be sick of us.

[Notch]

Johann Muller and Ruan Pienaar would have won Currie Cup, TriNations, World Cup and Heineken Cup if Ulster came out on the right side of the scoreline in the final...

[Rava]

On the sour grapes, it's inevitable and natural. Nobody likes to see Man United win the league. Nobody likes to see the All Blacks win. In fact in this match a few sour grapes are even understandable. Leinster did get the rub from the ref. But they still scored when they had to and defended their hearts out like they had to. You never know, if they went down to 14 men they might have scored a couple of tries! They've done it before.

The last gasp win against Clermont in 2010. The last gasp defence against Saracens last year. The comeback against Toulouse. The amazing comeback against Saints in last years final. You simply can't fluke these things repeatedly. Leinster have heart and bottle and skill and cohesion in equal measure. They're a great side.

Very true Feckless but there will come a day when the comeback won't happen and the last gasp defending just won't work.

Could be soon

Just sayin'

[ChequeredJersey]

Well won Leinster. A dominant force in Europe indeed and BOD still shows no signs of falling away from excellence

[mankiaow]

One point about Wayne Barnes, he may have given Leinster a bit of leeway at the breakdown but he was overly fussy on their throw-ins. It really hampered Leinster's performance in the first half as well as some poor kicking from Sexton.

Pepole need to take these things in context, a SF victory away to a/the top French team is a hell of an achievement.

You can tell the begrudgers here from a mile away. Picking holes in a victory like that is mean-spirited.

Leinster were the better side.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I know I'm late but.....

YYYYYEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

[Suspicious lurker]

Mother of Jasus that was something else, watched the game in the porter house in covent garden, its become the home of Leinster fans in London, with about 200 other fans. The place was rocking when the full time whistle went


Leinster scrum was dominated in the first half but yet again Ross figured out the problem at half time and fixed it just like in the final last year. Back row was solid with Heaslip having one of his better games of the season. Was great to see SOB make one of those runs again.


Boss did enough buy we looked better when reddan came on.


Jonny was class again

Darcy had a couple of brain farts but otherwise was class in defence, he hits everything


Kearney, let's just say id actually have his babies



What a day to be a Leinster fan, one of our finest days in Europe and proud to have witnessed it


Here's hoping for a massive final but not with another finish like that. I don't think my heart can take it and I'm only 26 don't know how gibbo is still standing

[MrsP]

One point about Wayne Barnes, he may have given Leinster a bit of leeway at the breakdown but he was overly fussy on their throw-ins. It really hampered Leinster's performance in the first half as well as some poor kicking from Sexton.

Pepole need to take these things in context, a SF victory away to a/the top French team is a hell of an achievement.

You can tell the begrudgers here from a mile away. Picking holes in a victory like that is mean-spirited.

Leinster were the better side.

+1

The begrudgers have been out in force all weekend.
Really disappointing.

It will be interesting to see who they begrudge the most in 3 weeks time!

Well done Leinster. 3 finals in 4 years is a magnificant acheivement.

See you at Twickenham!

SUFTUM

[Standulstermen]

What was the penalty count because for me Clermont conceded as many penalties as Leinster and no one is screaming for a yellow for them.

14 each according to scrum.com

[clivemcl]

I have one gripe. And its a gripe about something that happens all the time, but only really becomes highlighted when it happens at a crucial point in a match.

Please don't take this as anti-leinster. Sean O'Brien was not supporting his own weight when he forced the penalty at the end of the match. In fact I'm pretty sure his knee was down initially, and then when he had his hands firmly on the ball he had the support to stretch his legs up again.

I know every team does it, but I just think its one of these rules that have so many shades of grey its a joke. Personally, I think that it was a fair turnover. I just wish we'd stop seeing penalties in other parts of the game where refs say "oh he was the tackler" (when two or more had hands on the player as he's tackled) or "You arn't supporting your own weight" (how do you even judge that?)

[rodders]

Johann Muller and Ruan Pienaar would will have won Currie Cup, TriNations, World Cup and Heineken Cup if when Ulster came out on the right side of the scoreline in the final...

Fixed it for you Notch!.....

[eirebilly]

Its true Feckless. Ive been saying it too for a bit. Its just that their partnership has altered to suit to their weaknesses and strengths. One more Final hurrah and they need to be wound down next season.

Gibbo man, you know that i have admired D'Arcy for years but he really offers little in attack now even if his defense yesterday was sound. I feel that Leinster had Clermont on the ropes around the 50 to 55 minute mark and were opening them up. A better atacking 12 would have produced something and not made it so close at the end. I really feel that if Sexton had gone to 12 and Madigan gone to 10 that Leinster would have taken the game away from Clermont at that stage.

[eirebilly]

Eirebilly-u r a legend thanks. Well done Leinster

Thank Thomond mate, he is the legend for such things

[Rava]

Its true Feckless. Ive been saying it too for a bit. Its just that their partnership has altered to suit to their weaknesses and strengths. One more Final hurrah and they need to be wound down next season.

Gibbo man, you know that i have admired D'Arcy for years but he really offers little in attack now even if his defense yesterday was sound. I feel that Leinster had Clermont on the ropes around the 50 to 55 minute mark and were opening them up. A better atacking 12 (Paddy Wallace would be a great example here) would have produced something and not made it so close at the end. I really feel that if Sexton had gone to 12 and Madigan gone to 10 that Leinster would have taken the game away from Clermont at that stage.

Billy, I clarified that statement for you mate

[eirebilly]

Rava, you had to get Paddy in didnt you, you scamp

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Rava, you had to get Paddy in didnt you, you scamp

Perhaps they will both line up at 12 in the final. Let them do their talking on the pitch.

[eirebilly]

No question in my mind who is currently the better 12 Jen

[aucklandlaurie]

Johann Muller and Ruan Pienaar would have won Currie Cup, TriNations, World Cup and Heineken Cup if Ulster came out on the right side of the scoreline in the final...

However they havent won a Super xiv have they?

[Thomond]

Enjoyed the game, not goign into long detail but I think I see why Rob Kearney was minor for Louth in football, that drop goal was incredible. Similar technique use to kicking a ball from the sideline too. If he is that accurate,it's not surprising he was a minor!

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

No question in my mind who is currently the better 12 Jen

I know who I would rather have start a hc final at 12 in my team. They may be the same person, they may not.

[Guest]

One point about Wayne Barnes, he may have given Leinster a bit of leeway at the breakdown but he was overly fussy on their throw-ins. It really hampered Leinster's performance in the first half as well as some poor kicking from Sexton.

Pepole need to take these things in context, a SF victory away to a/the top French team is a hell of an achievement.

You can tell the begrudgers here from a mile away. Picking holes in a victory like that is mean-spirited.

Leinster were the better side.

+1

The begrudgers have been out in force all weekend.
Really disappointing.

It will be interesting to see who they begrudge the most in 3 weeks time!

Well done Leinster. 3 finals in 4 years is a magnificant acheivement.

See you at Twickenham!

SUFTUM

What are some of you going on about with this begrudging victories chat? People mentioning about offences that deserve yellows?

[Artful_Dodger]

Johann Muller and Ruan Pienaar would have won Currie Cup, TriNations, World Cup and Heineken Cup if Ulster came out on the right side of the scoreline in the final...

However they havent won a Super xiv have they?

Wannenburg has won a Super rugby title, has 20 caps for SA so I'm guessing he's probably won the TriNations as well, he's won the Currie Cup and is going to win a Heineken Cup - that will do nicely.

[SecretFly]

What are some of you going on about with this begrudging victories chat? People mentioning about offences that deserve yellows?

Because Sky highlighted them..because the crowd booed for them?

Yellows deserve yellows.

Now the proof is always that the same people who cry 'yellow' can go away, look at the game with the sound turned off and spot the Clermont yellows.

Those who do that will find them But for now, back to the discussion on the 'sound' of a yellow card offence as it pertains to a home game 16th man crowd.

[Gibson]

Just watching the game again. In French. Its brilliant. Shows Schmidt and Cotter having a wee chat before the game. Hines laughing and smiling with his ex-Boss. The build-up from Clermont's perspective. They are the best fans in Europe right now. Bar none. Its like a huge Michelen family.

10 mins in and we are running them dizzy. I watched that game, but didnt really see it. Nerves took over. Ifunowotimeanjon.

I love le rugby.

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