What an awful match, are we now talking about a big 2?

What struck from the horrific display of Roger's was that at no time in that match did nadal ever look in jeopardy. It was routine, there were a couple of great shots by Nadal and a couple by Federer, but I don't even think Fed forced Nadal to push it into 5 gear so to speak. Roger is a great champion, and his legacy is remarkable, he has also done alot for charity. Yet to me he is getting slightly worse over the years and the competition is getting slightly better. The days where Ljubicic, Davydenko, and Roddick would fill out the top 5 and easily succumb to Roger's unearthly talent are clearly over. Yes he is good enough still to beat 99 percent of the guys out on tour, but can that be enough for the Swiss maestro who has so thoroughly dominated the tour in his time? The epitome of this horrifying match was match point where Roger Federer took a short (I mean barely cleared the net short) loopy forehand with nothing on it and hit it into the net. I am not kidding I would of put that forehand away.

Right now it is clear that Nadal is the dominant #1 and that Djokovic is a dominant #2. I hope Roger sticks it out and has a swan song at a major where he takes home the trophy, but the gap between him and those two other guys is increasing and maybe more quickly than we would like to think. And with Del Potro rounding back into form, Murray surely will get back to the player he has been sooner or later, and even guys like Berdych and Soderling being able to knock Roger out on their day, where is Roger going to get another bite of the cherry?

For Nadal's part, he looked terrific and I think I favor him in a tough 3 set match over Novak in the final, even though I think Novak is better on the hardcourt and he is my favorite player, Novak has not looked particularly impressive albeit while making minced meat of the competition. If he plays the way he played against fish and Anderson against Nadal he will get beat in straights. But I am looking for both these great champions to raise their level.

Albeit I would not have missed it.. but staying up until turned 3pm I was somewhat disappointed at that display by Roger. In short it was bliddy awful.
It has become a too familiar sight these days.. 38 unforced errors (depending on how you classify "unforced") Rafa took it to him from the word go.. putting Fed under so much pressure that he was rushing his shots. He played defensive throughout.. when he tried to attack Rafa pulled out some great passing shots.
Loss of focus, loss of concentration. For every good shot he made he produced half a dozen bad ones. A chance to break Rafa only once during the match but couldn´t convert it. He seemed mentally "shot" to me. Rafa gave him a tennis lesson and he had no answer.

For Rafa´s part..Determined from the off ..."to lose" was not on his agenda. He was hungry.
Comfortable,. focussed, relaxed.., producing some classic Rafa shots. His serve was consistent .. in short he looked a force to be reckoned with. Making only 10 unforced errors. In good form

Novak´s match against Fish ... well another tennis lesson was metered out to Mardy this time.. the word "humiliation" comes to mind.. not the same Fish that played JDP.. resulting in "fish with breadstick" just as Novak likes them !!!

So for the final well we at least should have a real match to watch. with both men in this form hard to put money on it. I would, however, be a bit disappointed if Rafa lost this one..he looks better than Indian Wells. But Hey.. whatever.. the "new rivalry" has begun. I wish them both good luck.

Sorry, but I don't like your article, I even find it slightly disrespectful of Federer. I really don't think he deserves that. Is he not allowed to get older?!

"Yes he is good enough still to beat 99 percent of the guys out on tour..."
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How is that not good enough for a tennis player who is way past his prime?! Yes, he can no longer play on the same level he used to a few years ago, but to call it a "horrific display"? He feels he's getting older and that obviously affects his confidence... Still, have you already forgotten how he played at WTF and how he destroyed everybody he played there? That was not such a long time ago... He still has it in him, he just can't do it all the time.

It has always been and always will be a great joy to watch Roger play. Perhaps Nadal and Djokovic are better than him at the moment - but Federer is something else - a whole different league, not only because of what he's achieved but because of his beautiful unearthly style of tennis that can't even be compared to anybody else's. I really like Nadal, Djokovic is my favourite player... but to me, Roger is simply one of the kind!

Green I realise that you are a Roger fan, and I pay that due respect as I do your opinion. But hey ?? come on last night he was plain awful and that is being respectful. No fan of tennis and indeed of Roger could have said that was a performance to be proud of. This thread is discussing that match. NOT Roger in general. I think you have let your heart rule your head on this one :sorry

Green, I said a lot of good things about Federer if you reread my article: I commend his legacy, what he has done for charity, what a great champion he is and has been and so on. But objectively, he laid a stinker, Novak is my favorite player if he played like that in a big match and lost, as he has done quite a few times, I have laid into him.

I mean Green be honest, 9 out of ten players at my club who play regularly two or three times a week could put away that forehand on match point. I don't care if Usain bolt is across the net just angle it off the court.

Roger is a legend, probably the greatest player of the modern era to date, and generally a sterling citizen. But lets call a spade a spade, he was horrendous. And like I stated before I hope he does stick around and get one more bite of the apple at a grandslam.

Roger was not the Roger of yesteryear, that was plain to see and I truly believe that the WTF at the end of last year was possibly the last big trophy he'll win.

Rafa always takes his best game to Roger, you could see that last night, he was totally focussed and gave Roger nothing to build on. It's a long time since I've seen such negative body langugage from Roger, and despite what he may say in the pressers, he went on that court knowing that he wasn't the player he once was, and that probably won Rafa half a set before a ball was hit.

With one or two exceptions (Agassi being the most obvious) and in his 30th year, Roger is coming to the end of his career....it happens, and for a man who has won so much around the world, it must be difficult for him to accept, and it will take a while, but I can't see him being satisfied with getting to SF in tourneys...this is a man who goes out to win and if he can't do that, will he really want to hang around?

It'll be interesting to see how he does at Wimby and on the late summer H/C. If he does end the year without any silverwear it'll be a huge disappointment for him.

I know he wants to play Olympics 2012 and maybe after that the R word may come into play. I'm not a Feds fan....never have been, but I can appreciate what he has done and I would hate to see him hanging around, a shadow of his former self.

denzilsmom, I can't say I disagree, however I wouldn't go as far as saying that he is a shell of his former self. He is still #3 and beating basically everyone else on tour easily, who aren't named Rafa or Novak. And 2009 in my mind was bit of an anomoly. If Rafa wasn't hurt I doubt he could have gotten back to #1 and won both wimby and the french open, and Djoko was having major problems with his serve that he has finally worked out.

Personally, I hope he does win wimby this year. But I feel that I have to be objective in my analysis he played a horrible match and most certainly he is no where near the Roger of 2007.

I wiould echo that last comment .. he portrayed a very sad figure on court.. a man who had simply run out of ideas. I too am and never have been a fan of Roger´s but would acknowledge what a great player he has been. He ruled the world where tennis was concerned but Rafa has stolen his crown.. with many others waiting their turn to sit on that throne.
I realise how difficult it must be for him to accept but sincerely hope he lets remember him for the great Champion he has been and not a has been Champion

It really was an awful display by Federer yesterday. He looked lost, tame ... but credit to his opponent because I think his sheer presence and the fact that Feds knows he has a game that he finds so difficult to cope with half helps to defeat him at this stage in his career.

Rafa came out with a quote a couple of years ago which was "every player has their time in the sun, and I'm having mine." And I think we all know what that means. Federer still is good enough to get to semi's and indeed finals, and is better than a whole host of other players out there. But his time in the sun is starting to fade ... it happens, its the evolving nature of sport. No-one can ever take away what he's done in the game, but last night showed that its someone else's turn at the very top right now.

He could still win things, and indeed its only a few short months since he won the WTF. But on an indoor hardcourt, he can do. Its 4-4 on hardcourts now in their H2H, but 4-1 to Rafa when they've played outdoors. Lets see what the rest of the year brings, but still no player at the top of the game should under-estimate him.

First, I had no idea I was a Roger fan? Maybe I am... I am a fan of tennis in the first place, and as such I cannot but have endless respect for Federer as a tennis player. What I said is just my opinion, if you all disagree, that's fine by me I guess, but I had to say it.

As a tennis fan, and I hope most tennis fans feel the same (if not, then so be it), I hope I will be able to watch Federer play as long as possible. Of course he didn't play nowhere near as he used to, but he is getting older and that's only natural. He is obviously fully aware of that, even if he doesn't say it in so many words. His main problem last night was he came onto the court with no belief that he could win, what we saw was a consequence of that.
All that is probably very hard for him to take, but if people start talking how terrible he is now, he may not stick around as long as he would otherwise. Just like an injured player has an excuse for not playing well on the day, so has he... and because of who he is nobody should hold that against him IMO.

"Novak is my favorite player if he played like that in a big match and lost, as he has done quite a few times, I have laid into him. "
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That is so not the same! Novak is in his best (tennis) years, so if he plays badly he should be criticized, like Murray is criticized at the moment for wasting his best years, and there aren't many of those for a tennis player.
Federer has already proven everything he had to prove, and he's given us (tennis fans) so much already - who cares about one lousy match?! It's true he didn't play well, but I don't think he should be criticized for it. I just appreciate he's still around and hope he'll stick around for as long as possible, even if he kept losing in early rounds.

And to say: "9 out of ten players at my club who play regularly two or three times a week could put away that forehand on match point." is disrespectful IMO. So what are you? Better tennis players than Federer?! He made an UE - big deal!


"But his time in the sun is starting to fade ... it happens, its the evolving nature of sport."
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Exactly! And that's not his fault...

Once again, this is just my opinion.

Green, nobody doubts Federer's accomplishments or his legacy. The man is living legend who changed the game forever. That being said this is a tennis discussion, and to objectively state a fact that he played an awful match doesn't take anything away from the man, I mean even catholics aren't that protective of the pope. Like I said, I hope the guy plays many more years, because when he leaves we will all miss him, whether we are a fan of his or not.

And seriously, that forehand on match point was not just another uneforced error. It was match point against his greatest rival in a big tournament. Roger hit a shot into the net that any high school player male or female would be expected to put away. It happens to the best of pros, but come on, on match point you hit a nothing ball that just barely clears the net into the net. That is the equivalent of Tiger Woods whiffing the ball of the tee. Or Pele hitting a tap in into the stands, it was awful to watch. It was what surrender looks like.

Roger Federer rather built up the importance of his semi-final with Rafael with his comments preceding the match. I can therefore understand the disappointment some may have felt after watching his performance.

From the esteemed BBC we have
"And despite the emergence, and current form, of Novak Djokovic, Federer insisted that it is Nadal who remains his toughest test.
"My number one rival to me it seems is Rafa," said the 29-year-old Swiss. "It doesn't matter how many more times I'm going to be playing all the other guys.
"At the moment, we have that history and nobody can take it away from us. That's why the only thing really missing from us is a US Open match, I guess, and maybe a few other tournaments." "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/12928845.stm

However the use of horrific and horrifying in describing the match and his performance I agree is pure hyperbole. There are real activities that are occurring in this world that can be described as horrifying but one flat performance from an elite athlete is not one of them.

Nore Staat, that forehand he hit on match was beyond horrific. This is the greatest rivalry in the history of tennis to hit that shot on match point and to play that poorly in a big tourney against your greatest rival, well I just hope it doesn't happen too often. That last forehand and his performance was horrific, no it wasn't horrific like war or tsunami, but in its own way it was awful.

I understand that everyone's disappointed because they expected a better match, but I think you're being too harsh on him, that's all. Words like "horrible" and "awful" are too strong IMO. He didn't play well, and Nadal obviously played great, much, much better than in previous rounds, so we got what we got...


"Roger hit a shot into the net that any high school player male or female would be expected to put away."
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Well, I hope they all do better on a match point when they play in Masters semifinal against current No. 1.

Talking about Federer's quotes in Nore's post, if Federer still wants to remain up there for the foreseeable future, he needs to be looking beyond Rafa.

Sure, Rafa's the number 1 player in the world and the one they all target to beat. But Roger, it does matter how many more times you're going to be playing the other guys cos if you can't beat them, you won't even face Rafa.

He's getting in a bit of danger of living in a romantic past when the famous duopoly was to the fore. Of course they have the history and I think it will forever be one of those famed times in tennis with what the two of them had. But Novak's assertion this year with other guys to follow is what's happening now, and if Federer doesn't move with the times, he's had it.

Yes, I'm sure he wants that US Open match, for his own ego as he desperately wants to beat Rafa there ... but Rafa is not the sole threat to Federer any more. And he's in trouble if he doesn't move on.

Let's hope the Novak - Rafael final is to everyones taste

Hi Wooffie, I agree.

Rogers comments seemed too self absorbed. Its less about his rivalry with Rafael and more about performing to the best of his ability and trying to improve and adapt to the realities of todays game.

Green, I tell you right now that was a nothing shot he missed on match point. Like Kobe missing an open slam dunk in Game 7 of the Nba finals. It was ridiculous. I also agree that Roger needs to worry about the pack, not so much about Rafa per se. Heck the guy should stick around though, because lets remember how awful Sampras looked before his last magical run at the US open. Personally, I stand by my analysis, but that doesn't mean I want roger to hang up or that I think he is done. But his days of dominating the tour are certainly over.

Hi Nore, ditto.

OK, in the aftermath of another Rafa match his presser could be caught up in the Fedal thing, but in the cold light of day, even at age 29 he still has to evolve to stay at the top with the quality of the guys around him. Its his mistake to get caught up with the sentiment of the past and not see beyond it.

"Like Kobe missing an open slam dunk in Game 7 of the Nba finals. It was ridiculous. "
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Not the best example to give on a British forum, I believe. And what was the score at that moment? (I don't follow the NBA.) Would it have made much difference had Bryant not missed? How did he play the rest of that game? Who won? <blush>

Like I said, it's just my opinion. I'd rather not give so much importance to that one forehand, even if it was on a match point, because the match was already lost for Roger...

I think it is harsh to judge Federer solely based on last night, he was just rubbish then. It happens.

That said I fully agree he's not going to be the sole dominator of the tour like he used to be, but he hasn't been that for about 3 years now.

Definetly still a big 3, Federer has never really been amazingly bothered about Masters; the fact that Nadal has more than him at the age of 24, and considering there were about 4 years where if Federer turned up at a tournament it was pretty much a guarantee he'd win it, says it all about his prioritising of Masters tournaments. He has always been about the slams, they are when he peaks and when he's at his peak he's still more than a match for anyone.

Socal,

So Lakers won in the end after all (if my research was successful? ). That means it was just an UE from Bryant, it wasn't even on a match point...

Britains great nineteenth century polymath Charles Dodgson put his finger on it in his novel Alice Through the Looking Glass (under the pseudonym of Lewis Carroll) when writing "it takes all the running you can do, to stay in the same place".

Green, Kobe and the lakers are the be all and end all. By the way if you like to make some money bet the lakers to win the Nba this year. (although I am not a gambling man.) And to make it more british for you imagine if fabregas missed a penalty in the 90th minute that would have won Arsenal the league. That forehand was ridiculous just sheer ridiculous. Roger should not miss that shot period, it isn't just another unforced error, he missed a sitter on match point against his biggest rival.
Roger is a legend no doubt, but winning against the Simon's of the world and getting taken to the woodshed against Rafa and Nole I don't think is satisfactroy for Roger. If it is and the game means that much to him, then well more power to him. His legacy is unquestioned, but I hope he doesn't turn in too many of these type of performances in the future, it was gut wrenching.

"I don't think is satisfactroy for Roger." "but I hope he doesn't turn in too many of these type of performances in the future, it was gut wrenching."
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Watching people get old(er) is never a pretty sight... Well, you know what I mean (Roger is younger than me!). I'm just asking for little more understanding for good ol' Rog.


Socal,
I'm not British and I have watched the NBA once upon a time... And I know about the Lakers and Kobe Bryant , I just don't think the British (who should be the majority here?) are that into basketball... I suppose your new example will be more understandable to them - however, Roger's forehand was no penalty shot, he lost that match long before that final point . Of course he shouldn't have missed it, but it's all about confidence, and by that point of the match he probably didn't have much of it left.

Don't be so parochial, Green, but come on you saw the match, in your wildest dreams did you think Fed would miss that forehand, that was an easy shot, easier than an overhead. And sure every pro makes a bad error, where you say I could make that shot. But at the end of the match to make that kind of error, it was awful.

But it wasn't that one shot per se that made me so critical. He never pushed Nadal. That match was never in doubt.

I was watching a program about the great Jackie Stewart tonight and it was interesting to hear that Jackie got Mononucleosis. It took him out of F1 for over a month and lost the World championship because of lost points.

What was also interesting is that Jackie said he never really got over it. With the constant pressures continually weighing him down and the death of his friend and racing partner, Cevert, he decided to retire and never sit in a racing car again.

That made me wonder if Roger has ever fully recovered from it ?

Jubbahey, the guy won 3 grandslams and world tour final afterwards. I don't buy that argument. He is pushing ancient for a tennis player, it is amazing that at nearly 30 he is still in the top 3. The guy deserves kudos just for that. Then we have to get into hypotheticals about how good would Nadal be without chronic leg problems? Or how good djokovic would be without allergies and asthma.

Jubbahey wrote:

That made me wonder if Roger has ever fully recovered from it ?

Interesting thought Jubbahey,


Green.....did you know it would be easier for you to use the 'quote' button when quoting other members comment's in your posts?

I know they didn't have one on 606 so we quoted as you've been doing on here.........but by using the quote button it makes it easier for you, and easier for others, to instantly see who said what, when reading though a thread : )

I didn't see the match that's being discussed on this thread......I wish I had......I can't imagine Fed putting in such a poor performance but then eveyone is entitled to an off day....I suppose

Solerina

Solerina: "but by using the quote button it makes it easier for you, and easier for others"
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I'll write who I am quoting from now on...

I don't like the look of those quote boxes, I don't know why... cause I used them in my article and they look OK there.

Perhaps it's something to do with the colours? If you made them green I'd probably start using them...

Green wrote:
I'll write who I am quoting from now on...

Thanks Green.....that will be great : )

Solerina

"Jubbahey, the guy won 3 grandslams and world tour final afterwards"

socal, Stewart went on the win a few more championships as well, after the infection, so you may have to buy a bit more into the situation.

I'm not saying its the sole reason, but if you're not firing on all four cylinders 100% of the time, sometimes it can mean the difference.

I just think he got older and the competition got better. He played brilliantly in Australia 2010 more than 2 years after the mono. Mono isn't like hepatitis where it keeps coming back. Plus Roger has enjoyed exceptional health throughout his tennis career, you play long enough and most likely you are going to have to deal with some injury or illness in your career that impacts your performance for a season or two, maybe more. Look at Nadal's knees or JMDP's wrist. The guy is nearing 30 and is still really good, that is ancient for the ATP tour.

Plus the top 5 is much stronger than when Ljubi, Davy, and Andy Roddick just didn't have the game to bother Fed. The competition is better and Roger is a little older.

Can't argue with that socal, but mono has a tendency to leave the immune system deflated for quite a few years, the only reason I bring this up is that there have been cases where the effects of mono have diminished the patients ability to overcome other illnesses normally that have arisen later in life.

The hectic lifestyle, including training and exercise of the top athletes can delay the body getting back to normal after the initial infection.

Its not a constant thing, the body undulates between healthy and not so healthy so it is quite reasonable that with Federers age etc, this could be doubling up on the latent effect from mono.

Or not.

Yes, as use say there are too many hypotheticals. Even his treating physician might not know all the impact, plus every patient is different. Besides it is the breaks of the game so to speak as humans we are fallible and eventually all of our bodies breakdown of something at some point. A lot of great athletes have had opportunities snuffed out by injury, illnesses and or accidents. What would Ronaldo have done to the record books if his legs didn't go at age 23? Durability and ability to recover from injuries is an integral factor in analyzing the athlete, it is unfortunate but it is life.

Which kind of brings as back to Federer and his ability to pace himself at a slam.

I think a great many other top players could learn a thing or two about his way of saving energy through gliding on court, not hang gliding but his seemingly effortless way of getting to balls without huffing and puffing after a long rally.

Murray!!! are you listening, perk yer ears up man !

Definetly, Jubbahey, one of Fed's greatest attributes is his durability and his ability to use that smooth movement and aggressive style to lessen the physical toll on his body. Outside of the mono and a sore back that he gets now and again, I can't think of Fed in recent memory having any serious injuries. That is how he can go nearly 7 or 8 years and make every single grandslam semi.