Wasps should be cheering Clermont and Edinburgh

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:55 pm

Apparently due to the arcane science that is the Heineken Cup qualification system if either of those win it this year Wasps qualify as the highest ranked non French ERC team to not already have a place.
If they dont win then Connacht get the place

Apparently trying in the muppet cup is important. It could add just enough value to make the club purchasable.

Frankly I dont think either Wasps or Connacht will really add anything to the competition, but someone has to make up the numbers.

by formerly known as Sam Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:31 pm

Wasps team next year could suprise a few people. The front row might still be a little awful but with Wentzel and Palmer making up the second row and a backrow of the new Saffa, Poff and Haskell with the likes of Launchbury on the bench that is a much improved pack.

A backline of:
9.Simpson
10.S Jones
11.Wade
12.Waldouck
13.Daly
14.Varndell
15.Southwell
replacements - 21. Berry, 22. Davies, 23. Haughton. Doesn't look to bad at all. That's if they can stay up and find a new buyer of course.

by Brendan Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:38 pm

Even though Wasps had a bad year that is all it was. I would expect them to win probably 3 games in their group.

Of course I'd rather see connacht but then thats my nationality.

If Wasps were to get a spot I really think it would be a good lift for them. Also help them with any new players they might want to get

by PenfroPete Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:42 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote: Apparently trying in the muppet cup is important. It could add just enough value to make the club purchasable.

Not sure what you're driving at there Peter.
Anyway, I think Hound of Harrow will be wearing a Blue & Yellow Beret with his Kilt over the weekend Wink

by Mickado Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:46 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Apparently due to the arcane science that is the Heineken Cup qualification system if either of those win it this year Wasps qualify as the highest ranked non French ERC team to not already have a place.
If they dont win then Connacht get the place

Apparently trying in the muppet cup is important. It could add just enough value to make the club purchasable.

Frankly I dont think either Wasps or Connacht will really add anything to the competition, but someone has to make up the numbers.

yeah, just ask Quins fans about that one.

by funnyExiledScot Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:52 pm

What's happened to the HC spot vacated by Aironi?

I agree with Sam, Wasps without injuries next season could be a force to be reckoned with. Some real talent there, and no doubt there are a few youngsters to come through next season.

by formerly known as Sam Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:55 pm

What's happened to the HC spot vacated by Aironi?

A different Italian team will replace them.

by ChequeredJersey Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:56 pm

I thought that Wasps weren't allowed to qualify as they aren't in the top 7-8 in the AP? If not, then they definitely get through as they are well up the European Rankings (they might even be tier 2) and they could be dangerous with a full team and a fresh start after off field troubles get sorted

by ScarletSpiderman Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:58 pm

FES - It looks like Viadana will be taking over from Aironi in the Rabo, so I would guess that they will take over in the HEC too.

For the sake of Wasps survival as a club qualification into next seasons HEC will definately be a boost. That said I have a feeling that as far as competiton goes Connacht would be a better addition to the HEC, as I think they are more likely to take the competition seriously until their very last game, whereas I could see Wasps giving up if they fail to win in their first two encounters.

by geoff998rugby Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:00 pm

As others have mentioned a second Italian team will be selected.
Italian rugby will enter 2 teams in the Pro12 next year.

by PenfroPete Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:00 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote: It looks like Viadana will be taking over from Aironi in the Rabo, so I would guess that they will take over in the HEC too.

Link to story ?

by ScarletSpiderman Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:03 pm

Re: rabo pro 12 draft

Feckless Rogue wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Remember with a draft system (or the NFL one anyway) the team who finished bottom of the standings (worst record in NFL) gets to pick first. That would mean Arioni have first dibs.

What would make it more interesting is if you allowed the teams to keep all their players aged 25 and over and then allowed a draft of all the players under 25.

Arioni will not be here next year though.

They might in some form.

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/13907.php

But the link seems to be down, sort of. If you open the link, then click on return to Rabo home page, and then click back on your browser the story comes up. Damn weird if you ask me!

Aironi president keen to keep PRO12 rugby at Luigi Zaffanella wrote:Aironi president Silvano Melegari has made a declaration of interest to the Italian Rugby Federation (FIR) for Viadana to take Aironi's place in the RaboDirect PRO12 next season.

At the beginning of April the FIR announced that bottom-of-the-table Aironi wouldn't be competing in the league next year due to their financial problems.
But in the same statement the federation declared its intent to put forward another team to compete in Aironi's place.

Viadana won the Italian title back in 2002 and play their home matches in the same stadium as Aironi: the Stadio Luigi Zaffanella.

Melegari is also president of Viadana and this week he met the president of the FIR, Giancarlo Dondi, in Milan to discuss the possibility of keeping RaboDirect PRO12 alive in the area next season.

"I have sent a declaration of interest but I have not submitted an application," said Melegari.

"The declaration was in the name of Viadana but we are open to partners.

"Certainly there will be Colorno with us as they have been the only club to remain with Aironi right to the end.

"The other Parmesan teams pulled out earlier and have stayed out.

"When I met with president Dondi in Milan I outlined a project that centres on making cuts, lots of cuts, to how we've managed (Aironi) in the last two years.

"When the FIR revoked Aironi's license for me the team died.

"But we are working hard and I am sure that it (another team) will arrive.

"There's nothing to confirm but we're on the right path."

by formerly known as Sam Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:09 pm

as I think they are more likely to take the competition seriously until their very last game, whereas I could see Wasps giving up if they fail to win in their first two encounters.

Wasps took the Amlin seriously this year despite being in a very intense relegation battle. They only narrowly lost to Biarritz in a good game and you could see what it meant to the players to lose when the final whistle went (Daly was begging the assistant to correct the ref and say it wasn't a knock on).

by geoff998rugby Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:09 pm

PenfroPete my info comes from the official Italian site - but need to be able to read Italian though

by PenfroPete Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:10 pm

GEOFF & SPIDER - I've found it http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/13907.php thanks lads

by Portnoy Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:14 pm

Mickado wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Apparently due to the arcane science that is the Heineken Cup qualification system if either of those win it this year Wasps qualify as the highest ranked non French ERC team to not already have a place.
If they dont win then Connacht get the place

Apparently trying in the muppet cup is important. It could add just enough value to make the club purchasable.

Frankly I dont think either Wasps or Connacht will really add anything to the competition, but someone has to make up the numbers.

yeah, just ask Quins fans about that one.

A very unusual game in exceptionally different from dry conditions. Hug

The score published in the next day's paper is the result. But it is not a report on the game. Wink

by ScarletSpiderman Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:16 pm

PenfroPete wrote:GEOFF & SPIDER - I've found it http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/13907.php thanks lads

Bleeding link works after I copied and pasted it grrrrr.

Sam - I meant no disrespect to Wasps when I said I think Connacht will take it more serious than Wasps, what I meant is that for Connacht the HEC is exceptionally rare, and they will be keen on relishing every moment of it. Where as for Wasps they will be keen to try and keep competitive (or at least survive) in both competitions. Also the Amlin is an easier competition (not by too much though) and a route into the HEC for the following season, which makes staying competitive in it a slightly easier, and rather attractive, for a team sitting lower in the Jeff. (Still not sure this is coming out as I intend it, but sod it its friday afternoon).

by Portnoy Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:16 pm

PenfroPete wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote: It looks like Viadana will be taking over from Aironi in the Rabo, so I would guess that they will take over in the HEC too.
Link to story ?

Just a link will do to confirm whether it is rumour or factoid or invented.

by Mickado Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:17 pm

Portnoy wrote:
Mickado wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Apparently due to the arcane science that is the Heineken Cup qualification system if either of those win it this year Wasps qualify as the highest ranked non French ERC team to not already have a place.
If they dont win then Connacht get the place

Apparently trying in the muppet cup is important. It could add just enough value to make the club purchasable.

Frankly I dont think either Wasps or Connacht will really add anything to the competition, but someone has to make up the numbers.

yeah, just ask Quins fans about that one.

A very unusual game in exceptionally different from dry conditions.

The score published in the next day's paper is the result. But it is not a report on the game.

I could say the same for Glaws v Connacht, the score showed who won it, not who played the best rugby or deserved to win it.

by PenfroPete Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:18 pm

PORTNOY - see my post above, the link is there

by Portnoy Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:23 pm

PenfroPete wrote:PORTNOY - see my post above, the link is there

Sorry Penf,

An early bee emerged in by new spring bonnet - if anyone is going to quote anything, tell us from where!

by beshocked Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:27 pm

Peter seabiscuit wheeler which is the muppet cup?

Are you referring to the LV? You can win HC qualification from that too.

The Pro12 isn't a cup so I presume you aren't referring to that.

Do you mean the Amlin? It's not the greatest competition but you have a few good sides.

I don't think either Connacht or Wasps deserve to be in the HC but the way the rules one of them will make it.

Wasps fans should be praying for Clermont.

by PenfroPete Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:33 pm

Portnoy wrote:
PenfroPete wrote:PORTNOY - see my post above, the link is there

Sorry Penf,

An early bee emerged in by new spring bonnet - if anyone is going to quote anything, tell us from where!

No apology necessary - I was asking for the link too. It gives credence to the info

beshocked wrote:Peter seabiscuit wheeler which is the muppet cup?

Asked the same question, not got a reply yet

by Portnoy Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:41 pm

beshocked wrote:Peter seabiscuit wheeler which is the muppet cup?

Are you referring to the LV? You can win HC qualification from that too.

Yes. I agree.

Maybe the LV cup should be like suicide chess - the ultimate winner should be automatically relegated.

Or

It has neither purpose nor function and should be consigned to current Jeff Amin contenders/Championship teams for a draw into next year's Amlin.

by beshocked Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:46 pm

Portnoy that's not really fair on Leicester. You won the LV with virtually a 2nd string side the whole way. Hardly your fault other sides couldn't match you.

Maybe alternatively you should be relegated if you lose at home with close to a full strength team in the LV against a 2nd string team opposition.

Targetting the LV as a trophy but failing to win it is the worst scenario.

I agree though. The LV is pointless.

by Brendan Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:33 pm

is there a standard for Amlin games. I think that the winners of the Championship should get an Amlin spot even if they don't get into the Prem due to standards.

Will Newcastle get an Amlin spot if they stay in the league by default

Or if Wasps go down and a non Irish team wins the HC will Wasps still get the HC

by formerly known as Sam Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:39 pm

I agree though. The LV is pointless

I disagree there's a point to it, it is a useful development tool for young players and a good option for coaches to experiment with their teams. What is pointless is giving the winner a HEC spot and that some of the games fall outside of international windows. All games should be under the international windows and it should be recognised for what it is, a development competition.

by geoff998rugby Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:51 pm

If Wasps get relegated they will not get a HC slot.
It will go to the next highest team in the HC rankings - Gloucester perhaps ?

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:54 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:If Wasps get relegated they will not get a HC slot.
It will go to the next highest team in the HC rankings - Gloucester perhaps ?

Bath IIRC.

by ChequeredJersey Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:58 pm

It is Bath with 10 points

by geoff998rugby Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:59 pm

Just looked it up you are indeed correct.

So all Bath fans out there you should be cheering for Newcastle, Edinburgh and Clermont Very Happy

by HammerofThunor Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:18 pm

The stuff regarding Viadana seems to be just coming from the Aironi president (which includes Viadana so no surprise there). The Italian Federation said they were looking into the Roman side again. Has that been dropped again?

by KickAndChase Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:38 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Wasps team next year could suprise a few people. The front row might still be a little awful but with Wentzel and Palmer making up the second row and a backrow of the new Saffa, Poff and Haskell with the likes of Launchbury on the bench that is a much improved pack.

A backline of:
9.Simpson
10.S Jones
11.Wade
12.Waldouck
13.Daly
14.Varndell
15.Southwell
replacements - 21. Berry, 22. Davies, 23. Haughton. Doesn't look to bad at all. That's if they can stay up and find a new buyer of course.

You're not Scottish are you?

by BigTrevsbigmac Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:17 pm

I'm sure the situation for Wasps hasn't escaped ex Wasp Alex King who coaches for Clermont
Good luck Alex & Clermont!

by IanBru Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:27 pm

KickAndChase wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Wasps team next year could suprise a few people. The front row might still be a little awful but with Wentzel and Palmer making up the second row and a backrow of the new Saffa, Poff and Haskell with the likes of Launchbury on the bench that is a much improved pack.

A backline of:
9.Simpson
10.S Jones
11.Wade
12.Waldouck
13.Daly
14.Varndell
15.Southwell
replacements - 21. Berry, 22. Davies, 23. Haughton. Doesn't look to bad at all. That's if they can stay up and find a new buyer of course.

You're not Scottish are you?

I had a chat with a Wasps-supporting friend last weekend, who was convinced they would be going to down.

"What?", says I, tongue firmly in cheek, "even with Hugo Southwell? The living legend of HUUUGOO?"
"Yeah, yeah" says he "He's actually been one of our better players this year."

He then collapsed to the ground and started licking his palms. It turns out he had contracted rabies.
We were in Southampton, you see.

by funnyExiledScot Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:44 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:FES - It looks like Viadana will be taking over from Aironi in the Rabo, so I would guess that they will take over in the HEC too.

Thanks - didn't realise Viadana were getting into the Rabo, and wondered whether an Italian team could be in the HC if not in the Rabo (don't know why I thought that would be the case).

Viadana in the HC. Whipping boys springs to mind.

by HammerofThunor Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:10 pm

Aironi were a region formed from several clubs in the area. Most pulled out leaving just Viadana and another. Viadana are talking about submitting a team, possibly with the other team in Aironi. So there would be no real difference. However the Italian Federation were looking into the Praetorians again.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:01 pm

Connacht - yes tremendous. No dithering Wasps either tee hee laughing

by Feckless Rogue Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:15 pm

Why did most of the clubs pull out from Aironi?

by HammerofThunor Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:43 pm

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/italy/21058.php

Don't know but that's what is said here. Only Colorno stayed in with Aironi.

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