Rugby people who deserve a statue

by Portnoy Sat 28 Apr 2012, 1:13 pm

Next week sees the second public statue of Sir Bobby Robson (Ipswich ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bobby_Robson_Statue_Closeup.jpg ) followed by Newcastle (tba))

Clearly a statue is way more important than an ephemeral honour like 'freedom of the city' doo-daa.

Are there any living (International) rugby individuals who are worthy of an off-ground (i.e. public area) statue that will remain relevant in 100 years time?

Be careful on this one. This is a question that your grandchildren will recognise as reflectively relevant to themselves on reflection as to you now.

At the moment I can think of only one rugby statue (however apocryphal) that is guaranteed to not be removed/just another forgotten memorial in 100 years time.
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=william+webb+ellis+statue&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=606&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnso&tbnid=1GizqQUOfxEc3M:&imgrefurl=http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/webb-ellis-statue&docid=ORMhZQPDJyg9nM&imgurl=http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/images/webb-ellis-statue.jpg&w=426&h=639&ei=sd2bT_r2D6nL0QX9-tTyDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=673&sig=100403593874827876514&page=1&tbnh=126&tbnw=84&start=0&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69&tx=33&ty=65

So best maintain the relevance of the statue to fifty years...

by Guest Sat 28 Apr 2012, 1:24 pm

Gareth Edwards still has one in Cardiff's St Davids Centre

by Portnoy Sat 28 Apr 2012, 1:28 pm

Tbh IronMike, Gareth was the first name that sprang to my mind. I didn't know that he had a public statue, but it is likely to be there long after Michael Jackson's Fulham memorial.

by red_stag Sat 28 Apr 2012, 1:41 pm

There is a statue of Ronan O'Gara and Peter Stringer being built in Cork.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfqlojcwsnkf/rss2/

As rugby statues go I think the one of Ray Gravell outside Parc Scarlets is very iconic and has huge meaning to their fans due to his committment to Llanelli, rugby and the way he continued to enjoy his rugby upto his untimely death.

by **Notch** Sat 28 Apr 2012, 1:42 pm

They are building statues of Ronan O'Gara and Peter Stringer in Caaark.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfqlojcwsnkf/rss2/

TALKS are at an advanced stage with Cork City Council to erect a pair of statues in the city centre honouring Munster rugby.
A preferred site at Daunt Square, close to Cork’s main thoroughfare on Patrick Street, has been chosen for the privately funded bronzes which will depict Peter Stringer and Ronan O’Gara in action. The work could be unveiled this time next year if council backing is granted.

Munster supporters Paul and Pauline McCarthy came up with the concept and secured the council’s support following meetings with city manager Tim Lucey and council officials.

Dr McCarthy said the works, to be sculpted by artist Mark Rode, are intended to embody the spirit of Munster rugby as a whole rather than the specific players.

The larger-than-life-size figures will show Stringer throwing a pass to O’Gara and are believed to be the first interactive pair of statues anywhere in the world, mounted on granite plinths and standing between 16 and 25ft apart.

"My wife and I conceived this idea of honouring in Cork the contribution that Cork players have made to Munster rugby and we talked about it for a year. We wanted something that would epitomise everything that was best about Munster rugby," he said.

"We came up with the idea of a pair of statues of players, not to honour them specifically but to represent every past, present and future player in Munster, because the spirit survives. To embody and signify the qualities that have made Munster a byword for courage, determination, dedication and passion. And we decided on Ronan and Peter."

by **Notch** Sat 28 Apr 2012, 1:46 pm

There is a statue in Newtownards, where my parents live, of Ireland international Blair "Paddy' Mayne.

Spoiler:

He was quite the local character. Rugby Union international, Irish Universities Boxing Champion, founding member of the SAS, hero in the Second World War and general all-round man of action.

by Portnoy Sat 28 Apr 2012, 2:10 pm

Notch wrote:There is a statue in Newtownards, where my parents live, of Ireland international Blair "Paddy' Mayne.
Spoiler:

He was quite the local character. Rugby Union international, Irish Universities Boxing Champion, founding member of the SAS, hero in the Second World War and general all-round man of action.

This is precisely the (albeit vaguely hidden) point of my article Notch. Statues can be raised on a current wave of emotion.

Short of war memorials which are symbolic of the tragedy of the happenchance futility of an event, the celebration of an individual is pretty much futile if public memory < statue permanency.

Any great rugby player would probably have to have a second enormous string to his bow to remain relevant down the line.

If the relevance of Paddy Mayne is still understood and admired by the local community then that is good.

But mostly the relevance is forgotten.

I understand that.

Truly iconic players of their sports like http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=stanley+matthews+statue&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=JAT&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&prmd=imvnso&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FOubT8LKBIWs0QXz79TqDg&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=606

will live on.

But I'm seriously struggling to find an equally iconic figure in rugby (apart from Gareth Edwards).

by Shifty Sat 28 Apr 2012, 3:14 pm

There is of course Ray's statue outside Park Y Scarlets, Llanelli.

by Portnoy Sat 28 Apr 2012, 3:23 pm

Notch wrote:They are building statues of Ronan O'Gara and Peter Stringer in Caaark.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfqlojcwsnkf/rss2/

TALKS are at an advanced stage with Cork City Council to erect a pair of statues in the city centre honouring Munster rugby.
A preferred site at Daunt Square, close to Cork’s main thoroughfare on Patrick Street, has been chosen for the privately funded bronzes which will depict Peter Stringer and Ronan O’Gara in action. The work could be unveiled this time next year if council backing is granted.

Munster supporters Paul and Pauline McCarthy came up with the concept and secured the council’s support following meetings with city manager Tim Lucey and council officials.

Dr McCarthy said the works, to be sculpted by artist Mark Rode, are intended to embody the spirit of Munster rugby as a whole rather than the specific players.

The larger-than-life-size figures will show Stringer throwing a pass to O’Gara and are believed to be the first interactive pair of statues anywhere in the world, mounted on granite plinths and standing between 16 and 25ft apart.

"My wife and I conceived this idea of honouring in Cork the contribution that Cork players have made to Munster rugby and we talked about it for a year. We wanted something that would epitomise everything that was best about Munster rugby," he said.

"We came up with the idea of a pair of statues of players, not to honour them specifically but to represent every past, present and future player in Munster, because the spirit survives. To embody and signify the qualities that have made Munster a byword for courage, determination, dedication and passion. And we decided on Ronan and Peter."

And the relevance in fifty years time will be what?

I probably would concede to a statue which is erected at least ten years after the player's death as being worthy of immortilisation
For instance, take another iconic Welsh figure from the fifties: Cliff Morgan.

Would he still have relevance in statue form in even today's public conscientiousness let alone those of fifty years hence?

And lest we forget, Cliff is still with us.

by sirtidychris Sat 28 Apr 2012, 6:27 pm

Its too soon, but in a decade or two I think martin johnson lifting the RWC trophy or wilkinson doing his squat kick stance would be good

by **Enforcer** Sat 28 Apr 2012, 6:36 pm

Just a reminder to use Spoiler tags around pictures please guys thumbsup

Talking of the Gareth Edwards statue reminds me that when I was younger I was confused as to why there was a statue of a ten pin bowler in town! In my defence my parents weren't into rugby (I was a late convert)...and I still think it looks similar!

Spoiler:

by Portnoy Sat 28 Apr 2012, 6:43 pm

Enforcer wrote:Just a reminder to use Spoiler tags around pictures please guys

Talking of the Gareth Edwards statue reminds me that when I was younger I was confused as to why there was a statue of a ten pin bowler in town! In my defence my parents weren't into rugby (I was a late convert)...and I still think it looks similar!

Spoiler:

Why Enforcer? Surely it is an optional (if fussy) feature which neither enhances nor detracts from the v2 experience.

by **Enforcer** Sat 28 Apr 2012, 6:51 pm

It is part of the site rules to make sure that the site stays as 'work safe' as possible. The Spoiler tags stop threads being full of with images, something that will draw attention quicker than text if seen on a work computer screen.

by Thomond Sat 28 Apr 2012, 7:09 pm

I don't see the ROG/Strings statue going ahead for another few years at least. I think it will look ridiculous to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen. Sonia O'Sullivan and arguably Roy Keane are more/as deserving as those two.

by gowales Sat 28 Apr 2012, 7:49 pm

Shane Williams, Jonny Wilkinson

by aucklandlaurie Sat 28 Apr 2012, 8:48 pm

I dont know if you guys are only talking about in the Northern Hemisphere, But at Eden Park there is a bronze statue of Michael Jones (the best rugby player ever) depicting him horizontal scoring the first try in the first ever World cup final,it is about 4 metres high and about 3 metres long

by **Enforcer** Sat 28 Apr 2012, 8:57 pm

That is an awesome statue!

Spoiler:

by Shifty Sun 29 Apr 2012, 7:38 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:But at Eden Park there is a bronze statue of Michael Jones (the best rugby player ever In New Zealand)

Corrected that for you mate, we all know Gareth Edwards was rated as the best ever by players and coaches around the World in 1994. thumbsup

by aucklandlaurie Sun 29 Apr 2012, 10:01 am

Alan
I probably should have said the best rugby player in the World apart from Wales.

by Shifty Sun 29 Apr 2012, 10:43 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: Alan
I probably should have said the best rugby player in the World apart from Wales.

Play fair now... If your going to brand a player as the best ever then make sure it's the one the coaches, administrators and players themselves voted for. That was Gareth Edwards. Hug

Jones was a great player though, though with that surname there was probably a lot of Welsh blood pushing through there as well. Run

by sugarNspikes Sun 29 Apr 2012, 12:23 pm

Nani, the Man Utd footballer, has a statue of himself in his house. Classy.

by chewed_mintie Sun 29 Apr 2012, 5:22 pm

AlynDavies wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:But at Eden Park there is a bronze statue of Michael Jones (the best rugby player ever In New Zealand)

Corrected that for you mate, we all know Gareth Edwards was rated as the best ever by players and coaches around the World in 1994.

Matter of opinion I guess! MJ is the best ever....period!

by Cari Sun 29 Apr 2012, 5:24 pm

Surely there'll be one of BOD in Dublin at some point? They love their statues over there. Smile

by **Notch** Sun 29 Apr 2012, 6:17 pm

There's other great Irish players that haven't merited a statue- for me, a player needs to be astonishing on and off the field for it.

by SecretFly Sun 29 Apr 2012, 6:28 pm

BOD already has one:

http://www.scandigital.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/christ-the-redeemer-1.jpg

by mckay1402 Sun 29 Apr 2012, 7:44 pm

Outside of Murrayfield there should be a statue of Gavin Hastings lining up a kick. Nobody in 100 years will believe that he really did it like that unless it's set in stone

by dallym Mon 30 Apr 2012, 10:01 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: I dont know if you guys are only talking about in the Northern Hemisphere, But at Eden Park there is a bronze statue of Michael Jones (the best rugby player ever) depicting him horizontal scoring the first try in the first ever World cup final,it is about 4 metres high and about 3 metres long

don't forget that about 30m away from that is a statue of Dave Gallaher who captained the 1905 originals

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 30 Apr 2012, 10:17 am

dallym wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote: I dont know if you guys are only talking about in the Northern Hemisphere, But at Eden Park there is a bronze statue of Michael Jones (the best rugby player ever) depicting him horizontal scoring the first try in the first ever World cup final,it is about 4 metres high and about 3 metres long

don't forget that about 30m away from that is a statue of Dave Gallaher who captained the 1905 originals

And the original "fetcher" deserves it Smile

PS, great user name dally. And there's a statue of Dally Messenger outside the Sydney Football Stadium
(for NHers, Messenger was a star Wallaby centre in the early 1900s, who then switched to RL and is regarded as a League all time great - the NRL player of the year receives a "Dally M" medal)

by Portnoy Mon 30 Apr 2012, 10:31 am

Erica Rowe could replace one of the MOD entrance statues of amazon women. http://www.flickr.com/photos/paul_clarke/4330631651/

She was more than a handful in the archive of rugby achievements.

by aucklandlaurie Mon 30 Apr 2012, 11:25 am

dallym wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote: I dont know if you guys are only talking about in the Northern Hemisphere, But at Eden Park there is a bronze statue of Michael Jones (the best rugby player ever) depicting him horizontal scoring the first try in the first ever World cup final,it is about 4 metres high and about 3 metres long

don't forget that about 30m away from that is a statue of Dave Gallaher who captained the 1905 originals

DallyM,thats an excellant user name,your right its pretty remiss of me to forget Dave Gallaher,especially in Anzac week.

by RubyGuby Mon 30 Apr 2012, 2:59 pm

Didn't England have one of Ashton on the field in 2012 Run

by dummy_half Mon 30 Apr 2012, 4:59 pm

Ruby
It was still a marked improvement on the Banahan statue we used for the previous couple of seasons. Very Happy

I remember the first time I went to Cardiff and saw the statue of GE in the St Davids Centre - definitely says something about the importance of rugby in that part of the world.

by RubyGuby Tue 01 May 2012, 10:17 am

Nice one Dummy Half - I actually did think of Banahan first but I dont think many would have remembered him thumbsup

by Gibson Tue 01 May 2012, 7:59 pm

Mike Gibson. Id love it. Everyone would love it. Specially the pidgeons.

From a Paddy perspective:

Willie-John McBride
Denis Hickie
Jackie Kyle (yeah he's favourite)
O Driscoll
Gavin Henson (just to remind all future rugby-spelers to listen to their Ma's, Da's, mentors and coaches... But most importantly - to eat their veg and to stay out of pubs & tan-centres, or this will happen)

by RubyGuby Wed 02 May 2012, 9:22 am

Perhaps the Henson statue could be the one where he has Matthew Tait in his arms - Gold plated plaque alongside with the words "coming for to carry thee home" thumbsup

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 02 May 2012, 9:24 am

RubyGuby wrote:Perhaps the Henson statue could be the one where he has Matthew Tait in his arms - Gold plated plaque alongside with the words "coming for to carry thee home"

"Gold"?

Surely it'd have to be burnished bronze? Wink

by RubyGuby Wed 02 May 2012, 9:25 am

Think he's moved om from the bronze salon to the large Greek Gold 500 ml bottle thumbsup

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 02 May 2012, 9:27 am

RubyGuby wrote:Think he's moved om from the bronze salon to the large Greek Gold 500 ml bottle

I'll defer to you Ruby, you clearly know more about tanning products than I do Wink

by RubyGuby Wed 02 May 2012, 9:28 am

Can't stand the sun actually, I go for the red blotchy look myself thumbsup

by **Biltong** Wed 02 May 2012, 9:28 am

Doc. Craven has a statue at stellenbosch.

Spoiler:

by RubyGuby Wed 02 May 2012, 9:30 am

Variation on a theme but the welsh Grogs started in the 60's and 70's are a great product thumbsup

by **Biltong** Wed 02 May 2012, 9:33 am

Naas botha .

Spoiler:

by Effervescing Elephant Wed 02 May 2012, 4:40 pm

Bill Maynard, he's from Rugby.

by sugarNspikes Wed 02 May 2012, 4:49 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Variation on a theme but the welsh Grogs started in the 60's and 70's are a great product

Cheap tat

by Sin é Fri 04 May 2012, 12:34 pm

Portnoy wrote:
Notch wrote:They are building statues of Ronan O'Gara and Peter Stringer in Caaark.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfqlojcwsnkf/rss2/

TALKS are at an advanced stage with Cork City Council to erect a pair of statues in the city centre honouring Munster rugby.
A preferred site at Daunt Square, close to Cork’s main thoroughfare on Patrick Street, has been chosen for the privately funded bronzes which will depict Peter Stringer and Ronan O’Gara in action. The work could be unveiled this time next year if council backing is granted.

Munster supporters Paul and Pauline McCarthy came up with the concept and secured the council’s support following meetings with city manager Tim Lucey and council officials.

Dr McCarthy said the works, to be sculpted by artist Mark Rode, are intended to embody the spirit of Munster rugby as a whole rather than the specific players.

The larger-than-life-size figures will show Stringer throwing a pass to O’Gara and are believed to be the first interactive pair of statues anywhere in the world, mounted on granite plinths and standing between 16 and 25ft apart.

"My wife and I conceived this idea of honouring in Cork the contribution that Cork players have made to Munster rugby and we talked about it for a year. We wanted something that would epitomise everything that was best about Munster rugby," he said.

"We came up with the idea of a pair of statues of players, not to honour them specifically but to represent every past, present and future player in Munster, because the spirit survives. To embody and signify the qualities that have made Munster a byword for courage, determination, dedication and passion. And we decided on Ronan and Peter."

And the relevance in fifty years time will be what?

I probably would concede to a statue which is erected at least ten years after the player's death as being worthy of immortilisation
For instance, take another iconic Welsh figure from the fifties: Cliff Morgan.

Would he still have relevance in statue form in even today's public conscientiousness let alone those of fifty years hence?

And lest we forget, Cliff is still with us.

Its a monument to Munster Rugby and rugby's importance for the province/region (brought in millions of £/euros). Strings passing the ball to O'Gara is a familiar and iconic sight/depiction in that everyone would recognise what the sport it is. There was also talk of doing one for Limerick using a lineout (POC soaring into the air !).

It sits well with the province to do it this way. Cork is known for its backs and Limerick known for its forwards.

One man who deserves a statue for doing everything in the game is Tom Kiernan - great player for Ireland, coached the only Irish team to beat the all-blacks, captained the Lions, but his most lasting contribution is to European rugby, and that was his vision to the setting up of the Heineken Cup.

by Portnoy Fri 04 May 2012, 1:19 pm

To me, a rugby player/representative must be guaranteed a relevance which traverses the rugby/public consciousness. And is remembered as relelevant to future generations long after retirement.

Ideally the statue would be in a non-rugby open space.

Very, very few sportsmen of any persuasion manage to do that:

Staney Matthews (Eng, football), Jesse Owens (US, Athletics), Babe Ruth (US, baseball), Kip Keino (Ken, athletics), Don Bradman (Aus, cricket) etc.are the type of candidates are of the order of calibre to require a public statue.

I can only think of one UK rugby player that has spanned that divide from rugby to lasting public recognition (and he's still alive) - Gareth.

by red_stag Fri 04 May 2012, 1:43 pm

Gareth who?

by Portnoy Fri 04 May 2012, 1:52 pm

Don't worry Stag. It's a a UK player. You'd probably never have heard of him.

by Sin é Fri 04 May 2012, 4:15 pm

Portnoy wrote:To me, a rugby player/representative must be guaranteed a relevance which traverses the rugby/public consciousness. And is remembered as relelevant to future generations long after retirement.

Ideally the statue would be in a non-rugby open space.

Very, very few sportsmen of any persuasion manage to do that:

Staney Matthews (Eng, football), Jesse Owens (US, Athletics), Babe Ruth (US, baseball), Kip Keino (Ken, athletics), Don Bradman (Aus, cricket) etc.are the type of candidates are of the order of calibre to require a public statue.

I can only think of one UK rugby player that has spanned that divide from rugby to lasting public recognition (and he's still alive) - Gareth.

Looks like the people of Cork got Christ Ring right then (Ireland's greatest hurler). Its quite funny really because its used a lot by Munster Rugby as a backdrop for photos when new players arrive in Cork. The first thing they will learn is that they are in hurling country! (scroll down to 2nd pic).

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.munsterrugby.ie/images/content/Save_Tokula_Garrett_Fitzgerald_Content.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/10142.php&usg=__VF3aGOP9cnznj13Pw5B2BIKOmzY=&h=333&w=500&sz=40&hl=en&start=7&zoom=1&tbnid=Ka7oq0YAva07qM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=130&ei=SfKjT67uJMq3hQfj3_21CA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwill%2Bchambers%2Bcork%2Bairport%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1

by Gunner Fri 04 May 2012, 6:36 pm

Sir Fred Allen or one of the 4 blokes pictured wouldnt look out of place having a statue depicting them

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10802903#

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