With the summer tours to the SH on the horizon lets view who's on form in the Super XV

First topic message reminder :

Here is Planet Rugby's XV top performers from the Super XV... A decent mix of all three major nations that England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales are about to face down under.


15 Joe Pietersen (Stormers SA) - His return from Bayonne has been such a plus for the men from Cape Town. Not only is he in the high percentage from the tee but Pietersen offers a lot in attack. We saw that against the Highlanders and also over this past weekend as he caused the Crusaders plenty of bother.

14 Akona Ndungane (Bulls SA) - Nothing flash but frighteningly efficient from the veteran winger. Ndungane scored his first try of the season on Saturday and once again showed that he is more than capable of avoiding the touchline when under pressure. Great lines from him, getting in ahead of Lelia Masaga.

13 Richard Kahui (Chiefs NZ) - Maybe a touch harsh on Juan de Jongh of the Stormers - who seemingly never misses a tackle - as he was strong in Christchurch. However, for his solidity and intelligence both in defence and attack, Kahui is our man. Must be nice playing outside offload king Sonny Bill Williams.

12 Pat McCabe (Brumbies AUS) - Speaking of Sonny Bill, we come to the number twelve slot where three names popped up. McCabe for his bustling showing against the Rebels, Tim Whitehead for running good lines in Auckland and finally Williams for his moments of brilliance. But McCabe was consistently excellent.

11 Bryan Habana (Stormers SA): Much-improved performances of late from Habana, with his pace looking threatening once again while his work-rate was also mighty impressive. Scored a crucial try too that gave the Stormers a sniff at victory.

10 Tom Taylor (Crusaders NZ): The final scoreline should have read: Taylor 31-24 Stormers. What else can we say? Keep hold of that number twelve jersey for now, Daniel.

9 Francois Hougaard (Bulls SA): Piet van Zyl has taken to Super Rugby like a duck to water in Bloemfontein was again busy for the Cheetahs on Saturday. If the livewire keeps this up during the current Springbok camp he is attending then Heyneke Meyer may keep him around. Unfortunately for Van Zyl though, we've plumped for the probable new South Africa scrum-half, Hougaard, who showed immense power to score against the Lions and was nuggety throughout.

8 Keegan Daniel (Sharks SA): Played a real captain's innings for his team: Daniel set up the Sharks' first touchdown after intercepting and running half the length of the field before being brought down just short of the line, scored himself in the 47th minute to give his team back the advantage, and again featured in the lead-up to the visitors' bonus-point try.

7 Michael Hooper (Brumbies AUS): The 20-year-old (named player of the tournament in last year's junior World Cup) is enjoying a stand-out season in 2012 for the Brumbies. He made his mark with a brilliant performance over the Highlanders and proved it was no fluke with another impressive display against the Rebels.

6 CJ Stander (Bulls SA): With first-choice flanks Deon Stegmann and Dewald Potgieter nursing early-season injuries, Stander has taken his chance to shine with both hands. The talismanic forward who carries the ball strongly, turns over opposition ball at the breakdown and holds up opponents in the tackle, has proved to be a very valuable player for the three-time champions.

5 Brodie Retallick (Chiefs NZ): Another solid outing from the Chiefs tall timber. At 2.04m, Retallick - playing in his first Super Rugby season - has taken to the competition as if he was a veteran.

4 Scott Fardy (Brumbies AUS): Was pushing for a place on the Brumbies bench, never mind the starting line-up when the season kicked off. But this two-try, man of the match performance will certainly earn him regular starts in the future.

3 Charlie Faumuina (Blues NZ): Muscled up superbly for the Blues in a solid all-round performance. Tony Woodcock may have crossed for a try, but it was Faumuina who powered his way to the line to get his front-row colleague over it.

2 Craig Burden (Sharks SA): The former wing had mighty big shoes to fill following the injury to Bok hooker Bismarck du Plessis, but has now put in strong back-to-back performances that has left coach John Plumtree with a selection headache ahead of Saturday's clash with the Chiefs.

1 Sona Taumalolo (Chiefs Tonga): If this guy gets within touching distance of the tryline, he scores. It's no wonder he's currently the leading try-scorer in Super Rugby this season (six). Not bad for a prop!

biltongbek wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:I disagree about gaps narrowing. I actually think many of the sides below the top 8 or so are actually getting worse and gaps are widening in some areas. Some sides really haven't kicked on at all.

Also, it's more physically punishing to play a good side than a so called 'physical' side.

Note: can people stop blaming refs in every article? It's pathetic.

SugarNspikes, if all teams had the same time for recovery between tests and not 3 days in some cases, you will see a big difference in performance.

I agree. Samoa were badly hampered by their lack of rest against Wales. I believe they would have won that game otherwise. Tough break for them.

maestegmafia wrote:Rankings could well have two or even three NH teams in the top four spots come the end of the year should the NH teams show up well during their summer tours and AI's.

Extremely unlikely. Ireland will get a hiding in NZ, Wales won't win a test in Oz and England might win one in SA. I can't see NH wins in the AIs really either.

Well either way gents.

Whether you have 2 of the SH giants below 4 or in the top 4, the resultant seeding would still most likely bring up the same pools.

biltongbek wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

biltongbek wrote:To be fair Maes, the other teams are improving, and most countries these days will rest their most important players for those matches, but yes traditionally I agree Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and the like are physical even if not performing to their potential as a collective.

It is certain that the regular top ten to fifteen IRB ranked teams are definitely a lot closer. Whether or not you value the top four seedings as a distinct advantage or not the battle at the top of the table is very close, all evenly matched. The nations chasing those teams are not far off the pace and are constantly improving. Hopefully the RWC will get ever tighter between an increasing group of nations for the greater good of the game.

Wonderful for International rugby, though as you mentioned earlier, would be fantastic to see the referees as consistent and as talented as the players.

Yeah the referee issue is a sore one for me. but getting back to the seedings.

Let's take this scenario

Let's say for argument sake the rankings look like this end of year.

NZ
OZ
SA
WAL
ENG
FRA
IRE
ARG
SCO

the groupings will look something like this.

NZ - ARG
OZ - IRE
SA - FRA
WAL - ENG.

4 and 5 are always in the same grouping are they not?

So the rest of the teams for the groups are drawn by chance not by ranking from what I understand, so it is a lottery how and where they end up.

SA for example over the past two RWC's had Samoa in both there campaigns, instead of England we had Wales, not much difference in my opinion.

The rankings merely deterimine which "pot" you are in for the draw. So teams 1-4 are drawn in the first round, and miss each other by definition, then 5-8, then 9-12, etc.

So being 3rd vs 4th only matters for bragging rights, 4th vs 5th and 8th vs 9th have a real impact on your prospects.

It would be good to see qualifying groupings for lower ranked nations shared better throughout the pools.

It is a shame to see, for example, PI sides in the same pool, likewise emerging european teams or North American.

It would be nice to see a better mix. Let's say more like 2011 RWC's pools A and C rather than B and D.

Thanks for the explanation kiwi.

Still doesn't matter much then anyway.

Because trying to avoid a team in the pool is more detremental than you might think.

If you were to play NZ for example in the pool, you can only meet them in the final anyway.

If you avoid them in the pool, you could meet them as early as your first knock out match.

biltongbek wrote:Thanks for the explanation kiwi.

Still doesn't matter much then anyway.

Because trying to avoid a team in the pool is more detremental than you might think.

If you were to play NZ for example in the pool, you can only meet them in the final anyway.

If you avoid them in the pool, you could meet them as early as your first knock out match.

And that's why most NZers were ecstatic when the draw gave us France in our 2011 pool. And if Tonga had managed a win over Canada we'd have played Wales in the final.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Thanks for the explanation kiwi.

Still doesn't matter much then anyway.

Because trying to avoid a team in the pool is more detremental than you might think.

If you were to play NZ for example in the pool, you can only meet them in the final anyway.

If you avoid them in the pool, you could meet them as early as your first knock out match.

And that's why most NZers were ecstatic when the draw gave us France in our 2011 pool. And if Tonga had managed a win over Canada we'd have played Wales in the final.

If hook, jones or halfpenny had of had a better day goal kicking you would have met Wales too...

Oh well, hopefully next time mate.

PS : as Bill said, cheers for your input above

Based on all this, I honestly don't think it matters, there are too many permutations, you may lose a pool match or win a pool match you shouldn't.

It could happen in another pool.

Just look at last year, Oz lose to Ireland, we end up playing Bryce instead of Oz and go out.

You can't play this thing by the numbers, what happens happens, and you either win or not.

They might as well not have rankings for this.

You place the 8 quarter finalists in one hat, draw two names per pool, then let the otehr teams play qualification tournaments and draw them in a hat.

Ultimately I doubt it will differ much from how it is done now.

The rankings are a farce anyway, as not all teams play the same opponents the same number of times, and conditions, referees, injuries and Bryce Lawrence are all variables.

Extremely unlikely. Ireland will get a hiding in NZ, Wales won't win a test in Oz and England might win one in SA. I can't see NH wins in the AIs really either

England are dropping like flies, Oz are hampered by injuries yet England are more likely to win one than Wales ? I don't follow you 'logic'

munkian, england has had more success overseas than wales in their history.

South africa is in flux. Oz having problems at 10 isn't all bad, in fact I beleive Quade Cooper to be a maverick and not the best ten around. Yes he can attack, but that is pretty much his only real positive.

biltongbek wrote:They might as well not have rankings for this.

You place the 8 quarter finalists in one hat, draw two names per pool, then let the otehr teams play qualification tournaments and draw them in a hat.

Ultimately I doubt it will differ much from how it is done now.

The rankings are a farce anyway, as not all teams play the same opponents the same number of times, and conditions, referees, injuries and Bryce Lawrence are all variables.

Not just Bryce Lawrence mate...

Agree with your view of the rankings too, though I doubt whether if you worked them out on a level playing field of games against each other being equal and accounting for match points difference, which would be fairer if at all possible, that you would get a much different result.

biltongbek wrote:munkian, england has had more success overseas than wales in their history.

South africa is in flux. Oz having problems at 10 isn't all bad, in fact I beleive Quade Cooper to be a maverick and not the best ten around. Yes he can attack, but that is pretty much his only real positive.

Considering both England and SA have new regimes in charge the playing field is more even, or less predictable. In which case go on recent form not history. SA being strong five years ago and England a decade ago bares absolutely no relevance on this game other than the expectation of fans with long memories.

maestegmafia wrote:

biltongbek wrote:munkian, england has had more success overseas than wales in their history.

South africa is in flux. Oz having problems at 10 isn't all bad, in fact I beleive Quade Cooper to be a maverick and not the best ten around. Yes he can attack, but that is pretty much his only real positive.

Considering both England and SA have new regimes in charge the playing field is more even, or less predictable. In which case go on recent form not history. SA being strong five years ago and England a decade ago bares absolutely no relevance on this game other than the expectation of fans with long memories.

Yet over the past 24 months we have been pathetic, and england may have a new sqaud, but they have had a better return than us.

In recent history, Australia has been all over wales.

biltongbek wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

biltongbek wrote:munkian, england has had more success overseas than wales in their history.

South africa is in flux. Oz having problems at 10 isn't all bad, in fact I beleive Quade Cooper to be a maverick and not the best ten around. Yes he can attack, but that is pretty much his only real positive.

Considering both England and SA have new regimes in charge the playing field is more even, or less predictable. In which case go on recent form not history. SA being strong five years ago and England a decade ago bares absolutely no relevance on this game other than the expectation of fans with long memories.

Yet over the past 24 months we have been pathetic, and england may have a new sqaud, but they have had a better return than us.

In recent history, Australia has been all over wales.

Yes they have though all our games vs SH opposition have been getting closer results rise and I see this as a marked recognition of the improvements in welsh rugby, mainly in player depth.

We might not have enough fire power yet but we are improving all the time. Certainly good reason for optimism.

Yes. There is defenite reason for optimism, the only team I think is on a hiding to nthing is Ireland.

Are France even touring ?

No, they are protecting their rankings.

For Wales, I think they will do much better in Aus if JD2 makes it. Losing both centres would be a blow

munkian wrote:Are France even touring ?

They're off to Argentina.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

munkian wrote:Are France even touring ?

They're off to Argentina.

Biltong was right then

biltongbek wrote:Looking at the top 8 countries who will get seeded as tier one, immaterial of where they end up they should by all rights qualify for the quarters finals, from there they have to win 3 knock out matches.

You need to beat all your opponents there, does it matter who you face.

Trying to avoid a specific nation until the final and then still losing t them doesn't matter.

I suppose it depends what the goal is, do you want to reach a semi final, or final, or do you want to win the whole thing.

Agree 100%, well said biltong.

You just got to beat any side you're pitched against in the comp, and losing in the final is as bad as losing pool stage, well for my way of thinking anyway for the RWC.

People always only remember the winner, and bragging rights for losing finalists is non existent!!!

With Ireland coming here in little more than a month one has to start looking into these three tests as to where not to give them a easy break,and more importantly not to let an opportunity be missed.

One such position is second five 8th,At the moment Sonny Bill Williams is the best 2nd 5 playing in New Zealand,however on the other hand we have Maa Nonu,the dominant incumbent second five all last year incuding through a World Cup campaign,but this year the skills have gone all rusty,the power is static and the pace has no energy.This is understandable when one takes into account that he has played 16 months of continuos rugby,knowing our selection team they will include him,but for what reason,just because he is the incumbent?

There are two other 2nd 5s playing with far better form then Nonu,Tim Bateman and Shaun Treeby,these guys should get some sort of chance against reland,with SBW, if they dont an opportunity to dominate in the midfield will be lost.

Maestegmafia

Which team out of England, Ireland,Scotland and Wales is Sona Taumalolo going to face?

aucklandlaurie wrote: With Ireland coming here in little more than a month one has to start looking into these three tests as to where not to give them a easy break,and more importantly not to let an opportunity be missed.

One such position is second five 8th,At the moment Sonny Bill Williams is the best 2nd 5 playing in New Zealand,however on the other hand we have Maa Nonu,the dominant incumbent second five all last year incuding through a World Cup campaign,but this year the skills have gone all rusty,the power is static and the pace has no energy.This is understandable when one takes into account that he has played 16 months of continuos rugby,knowing our selection team they will include him,but for what reason,just because he is the incumbent?

There are two other 2nd 5s playing with far better form then Nonu,Tim Bateman and Shaun Treeby,these guys should get some sort of chance against reland,with SBW, if they dont an opportunity to dominate in the midfield will be lost.

I dont remember the last time Ma'a Nonu dissapointed in the black jersey no matter how dire his super form has been .Ever since 08 he's been producing the goods year in year out.He will be included in the squad and imo he will be the dominant force he has been in black for the last 4 years

aucklandlaurie wrote: Maestegmafia

Which team out of England, Ireland,Scotland and Wales is Sona Taumalolo going to face?

Scotland

Here is the latest Team of the Week from Planet Rugby

15 Luke Morahan (Reds): After the Reds had missed a number of tackles in the first half against the Chiefs, Morahan gave an inspired display of defence in the second 40 as the Chiefs threw wave after wave of attack at the defending champs culminating in three try-saving tackles by the full-back. A bit overeager with his tip-tackle on Sonny Bill Williams though...

14 Lwazi Mvovo (Sharks): Played on the left wing for the Sharks, but his length-of-the-field touchdowns - his second effort pure magic - made it impossible for us to leave the Bok flyer out.

13 Stirling Mortlock (Rebels): Gave another meaning to 'Super Sub' after the former Wallabies skipper came on as a replacement and brought the crowd to their feet as he scored a second-half try to seal the Rebels' massive 28-19 upset victory over the Crusaders.

12 Sonny Bill Williams (Chiefs): Did more than enough to restore his credibility with a physical, unflinching performance in the midfield for the Chiefs. Bagged a try for his efforts, and did his best to atone for the loss of midfield partner Richard Kahui to injury.

11 Julian Savea (Hurricanes):Savea's match-winning try against the Highlanders was probably the final tick needed to gain selection in the All Blacks training squad. Indeed, the future looks bright for this 1.92m, 108kg bundle of explosive power.

10 Kurtley Beale (Rebels): We had a few unhappy Pat Lambie fans last week, but surely even they can't argue (we hope!) over this week's selection of Beale who keeps his place in our XV after chalking up his second successive star showing.

9 Nick Phipps (Rebels): Played a vital role in the Rebels' upset win over the Crusaders by scoring two of his team's three tries. Wallabies coach Robbie Deans, who was watching in the stands, would have been pleased.

8 Nasi Manu (Highlanders): Put in a combative performance for the southerners and was all energy throughout - even a troublesome ankle injury couldn't stop the Highlanders' human wrecking ball from causing damage.

7 Liam Gill (Reds): It was a standout performance by the 19-year-old opensider, who had a field day at the breakdowns by stealing ball or forcing penalties at will and added another man-of-the-match performance to his resume.

6 Luke Braid (Blues): Handing Luke Braid the Blues' captaincy is one of the few applaudable decisions Pat Lam has made this year. The loose forward toiled extremely hard to lead his team to victory and end the franchise's torrid run of defeats.

5 Hugh Pyle (Rebels): The towering lock was a formidable force once again for the Rebels, and continues to impress in the second row where he quite literally shoulders a lot of responsibility. The assumption with the Rebels' big man is that it's a matter of when and not if he is handed a Wallabies jersey.

4 Eben Etzebeth (Stormers): The Stormers left fans with more questions than answers after scraping past the Cheetahs. But the question as to who will lock in for the Boks against England was at least answered. Etzebeth's physicality and aggression is exactly what Springbok boss Heyneke Meyer is looking for in South Africa's second row...

3 Werner Kruger (Bulls): Dropped anchor at scrum-time for Bulls and powered over for the match-winning try to wrap up a solid all-round game against the Waratahs in Sydney.

2 John Ulugia (Waratahs): Came into the side for injured Wallabies hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau and gave an impressive display, especially on defence where tackled like a machine. The Wallabies will be encouraged by the sight of Saia Faainga crashing over the whitewash for the Reds as he continued his comeback from injury with fine showing off the bench.

1 Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks): The only other player to retain his place in our XV, the Springbok prop gave a five-star performance in his team's mauling of the Western Force in Durban. The 'Beast' was rewarded with the man-of-the-match award after a solid effort in the scrums and a high work-rate in the tight-loose.