The Tigers next sesaon

This season has been very tough what with injuries and international call outs.
But at the sharp end of the Jeff, they are not rubbish.

Next season they won't be constrained by 54-odd % of their Jeff games being affected by international calls.

But they have developed a meaningful squad which must scare any domestic opposition.

And a second-team (based on foreign imports) to withstand the threats of the IWs of the Jeff.

To me the test will be in the HEC and can they regain an ascendancy?

Ascendancy as such is difficult.

However with the depth of squad we will have, with young players a season better and recruits being better than the outgoing players the team will be stronger. Get in the wrong group and things can be tough, but what I want to see is that the team are more competetive away from home against decent European opposition. With homa advantage we were able to beat Ulster and Clermont - but away from home we were 3rd best.

I don't think Tigers will regain ascendancy in one season, it'll take a couple of years before Tigers will be a safe bet to be busy late April and all through May. Cockers has done a pretty fine job of rebuilding the team that has been effected by the static wage cap and some aging key players (that happens to all teams). The injury crisis last year and this year (coupled with the RWC) has meant that a number of talented youngsters have got more exposure than normal and have shown up rather well. Astute signings have been the name of the game and with Harrison and Ford coming through nicely we finally have an alternative to Youngs and Flood that could actually stand up in the big games.

Even so there are still a couple of areas of concern. A lot is resting on the shoulders of Slater if Deacon's injuries continue, either Green needs to step up or we need to find more enforcer cover as we were seriously lacking grunt in some of the big European games when Deacon was absent. Hooker is also looking to be a continuing issue, Youngs is talented but a bit raw whilst Hawkins is a good option but lacks outright power and time is running short with Chuter not getting any younger.

Next season we need to cement our AP credentials (we've been the best side post RWC) and get back on track in Europe. I don't expect us to win it but knock out stages are a minimum requirement after this season (hopefully we'll be able to field a proper midfield in all the HEC games this time round). The LV Cup can remain a development competition, young guns did well this season.

Perhaps you'll get a win against Exe next season?!

Dunno Exeter are a very well rounded side that will no doubt add some quality under the radar during this summer. Whitten coming in to the centres alongside Naqi the giant at 13 should give you some extra go forward in the area where you most need it.

Tigers squad to look something like this next season (tried to include all the players with a first team cap):

Loosehead - Ayerza, Mulipola, Stanovitch, Harris
Hooker - Chuter, T Youngs, Hawkins, Stevens, Thacker
Tighthead - Castro, Cole, Brookes, Bower, O'Campo, Balmain
Lock - Deacon, Parling, Slater, Kitchener, Green (is he staying), Cain, Price
Blindside - Croft, Mafi, Pienaar, Doyle (though I know nout about him)
Openside - Salvi, Newby, Woods, Armes
8 - Crane, Waldrom, de Carpienter
9 - Youngs, Young, Harrison, Steele
10 - Flood, Ford, Lynn (no first team appearence yet)
IC - Allen, Bowden, Symons
OC - Manu, Smith, Forsyth, Mama, Rolston
Wing - Thompstone, Benjamin, Gonvea, Hamilton, Lewington
FB - Murphy, Tait, Morris, MacAuley

Sesaon?

Portnoy you don't scare us. Not anymore.

HC success is heavily dependent on who you get in the pools.

Regain ascendancy? Leicester have barely fallen.

Some canny signings for next season particularly strengthening your back three (wings) will see Leicester yet again in the AP mix.

A favourable HC pool could see Leicester going far.

You can see why Portnoy bangs on about increasing the wage cap, that's the only way that squad will be able to play!

The worrying thing for other sides is that the Tigers pack just seems to be getting stronger and stronger. The only weakness is that the backs are more workman like than full of flair, which may hinder European success, but there is no doubt you'll be up there again in the Jeff and I'd be amazed if you failed to qualify for the knockout stages of the HC again.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Perhaps you'll get a win against Exe next season?!

Maybe As.

A long shot. Maybe a 50/1 shot that Tigers win at home. And 5000/1 to get a double.

You do really despise me don't you?

It's those Tiger's props which are the foundation.

HKC I would hardly call Youngs,Flood,Allen,.M Tuilagi and Murphy workman like!

Agree about their replacements like Smith and Hamilton being like that though.

beshocked wrote:It's those Tiger's props which are the foundation.

HKC I would hardly call Youngs,Flood,Allen,.M Tuilagi and Murphy workman like!

Agree about their replacements like Smith and Hamilton being like that though.

Very good at chasing kick-offs though.

I think Benjamin in particular adds that little bit of pace that we have been missing but it is a shame that we can't keep Agulla who has been a revelation this season. The pack will go from strength to strength though I agree an alternative to Slater is needed. Parling and Kitchener are a very good 1,2 combination for the other 2nd row slot. Europe, however, is still a way off I think but I would hope the knockout stages could be achieved and from there anything is possible I guess.

beshocked wrote:

HKC I would hardly call Youngs,Flood,Allen,.M Tuilagi and Murphy workman like!

But I would hardly call them flair players either. Allen & Tuilagi are both excellent players, but by in large you know what you get from them. Hard runners, good defence, but neither have a kicking game to speak of and their passing could be better. That doesn't make them bad players, far from it. They will be more than a match for most Jeff backs, but for European success there needs to be more creativity to unlock defences. Hence the term workman like as you know they will give it their all, which will often be enough, but in a tight game do they have the creativity to make chances?

Things are looking positive, if everyone is fit and available (there's a first time for everything) the the 23 will be:

1.Ayerza
2.Chuter
3.Cole
4.Deacon
5.Parling
6.Croft
7.Salvi
8.Crane
9.B Youngs
10.Flood
11.Benjamin
12.Allen
13.Manu
14.Thompstone
15.Murphy

Bench: Mulipola, T Youngs, Castro, Mafi, Waldrom, Harrison, Ford, Tait. 17 out of 23 EQ as well.

They will be more than a match for most Jeff backs, but for European success there needs to be more creativity to unlock defences.

Agree on the Allen and Flood front that they are good in attack but won't do anything mind blowing, Manu may still be a bit of a rough diamond but he is definitely capable of changing a game. He only played in 2 HEC games this year but scored 1 try and both those games were against Clermont. His power and pace are known about but he can pull things out of the bag, the little grubber from his own 22 away against Sarries that forced Alex Goode to concede a lineout in the Sarries half was the basis for the that final final push ending in the drop goal for Murphy. He also scythed through the Leinster defence in Dublin and was halted by a great Nacewa tackle (no support cost us a try). He's not creative for others but has the ability to open up a defence or do something special every now and then.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Things are looking positive, if everyone is fit and available (there's a first time for everything) the the 23 will be:

1.Ayerza
2.Chuter
3.Cole
4.Deacon
5.Parling
6.Croft
7.Salvi
8.Crane
9.B Youngs
10.Flood
11.Benjamin
12.Allen
13.Manu
14.Thompstone
15.Murphy

Bench: Mulipola, T Youngs, Castro, Mafi, Waldrom, Harrison, Ford, Tait. 17 out of 23 EQ as well.

They will be more than a match for most Jeff backs, but for European success there needs to be more creativity to unlock defences.

Agree on the Allen and Flood front that they are good in attack but won't do anything mind blowing, Manu may still be a bit of a rough diamond but he is definitely capable of changing a game. He only played in 2 HEC games this year but scored 1 try and both those games were against Clermont. His power and pace are known about but he can pull things out of the bag, the little grubber from his own 22 away against Sarries that forced Alex Goode to concede a lineout in the Sarries half was the basis for the that final final push ending in the drop goal for Murphy. He also scythed through the Leinster defence in Dublin and was halted by a great Nacewa tackle (no support cost us a try). He's not creative for others but has the ability to open up a defence or do something special every now and then.

Hopefully Manu will mix it up a bit next season, as you say he does add the variety to his game now and again but i'd like to see it more.

HongKongCherry wrote:

beshocked wrote:

HKC I would hardly call Youngs,Flood,Allen,.M Tuilagi and Murphy workman like!

But I would hardly call them flair players either. Allen & Tuilagi are both excellent players, but by in large you know what you get from them. Hard runners, good defence, but neither have a kicking game to speak of and their passing could be better. That doesn't make them bad players, far from it. They will be more than a match for most Jeff backs, but for European success there needs to be more creativity to unlock defences. Hence the term workman like as you know they will give it their all, which will often be enough, but in a tight game do they have the creativity to make chances?

I thought Allen carved open a few holes against Quins the other week?

HongKongCherry wrote:

beshocked wrote:

HKC I would hardly call Youngs,Flood,Allen,.M Tuilagi and Murphy workman like!

But I would hardly call them flair players either. Allen & Tuilagi are both excellent players, but by in large you know what you get from them. Hard runners, good defence, but neither have a kicking game to speak of and their passing could be better. That doesn't make them bad players, far from it. They will be more than a match for most Jeff backs, but for European success there needs to be more creativity to unlock defences. Hence the term workman like as you know they will give it their all, which will often be enough, but in a tight game do they have the creativity to make chances?

Tigers don't need flair players in the midfield, when their 2nd Rows are dancing round defences...

HKC Allen and Manu are very effective though.

Ok Manu isn't a Conrad Smith or a BOD but he's still very good.

Flair is all well and good but I prefer substance.

What would be your dream centre combo?

Mine would be Nonu and C.Smith.

Other than that I would be happy with Lowe,Daly or Joseph,M. Tuilagi too as 13s.

Equo Troiano wrote:
Tigers don't need flair players in the midfield, when their 2nd Rows are dancing round defences...

To be fair, as demonstarted against Saints, Slater can time a pass better than Allen.

To be fair, as demonstarted against Saints, Slater can time a pass better than Allen

Slater is a backrower that's been converted to the second row by Tigers so you'd expect him to have some handling skills, not sure I expected the step that he brought out though, that was positively back 3 material. In the A League semi final Kitchener ran in a 60 odd metre try. What kind of second row are we developing!

beshocked wrote:HKC Allen and Manu are very effective though.

Ok Manu isn't a Conrad Smith or a BOD but he's still very good.

Flair is all well and good but I prefer substance.

What would be your dream centre combo?

Mine would be Nonu and C.Smith.

Other than that I would be happy with Lowe,Daly or Joseph,M. Tuilagi too as 13s.

That's my point, they are very effective, but you do know what you're getting from them. At all but the very highest level this is more than good enough, but if they have genuine aspirations to win the HC there needs to be a bit more game changers in the backs.

My dream combo would be 36 and Trinder

More seriously, the Nonu/Smith combination is certainly up there. I feel any partnership has to have a bit of brawn and creativity. I feel the OC needs to be the one with the speed and creativity. Which is part of the reason I make the comments about the Tigers centres.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

To be fair, as demonstarted against Saints, Slater can time a pass better than Allen

Slater is a backrower that's been converted to the second row by Tigers so you'd expect him to have some handling skills, not sure I expected the step that he brought out though, that was positively back 3 material. In the A League semi final Kitchener ran in a 60 odd metre try. What kind of second row are we developing!

Mafi is no slouch either

Mafi is no slouch either

Yeah but he is a backrower that covers the second row as opposed to an out and out second row. Damn good option to have and he is only 22!

I feel the OC needs to be the one with the speed and creativity. Which is part of the reason I make the comments about the Tigers centres

Tigers have had the same sort of centre combo for years. The IC is more of a footballer with the clever running lines and the OC brings power and pace. It's been seen a lot with combos like Mauger/Hipkiss, Gibson/Smith and Howard/Lloyd. Allen/Manu is in keeping with that. Bowden might edge out Allen from the 12 shirt if he offers more in the way of creative passing but we will see.

Portnoy wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Perhaps you'll get a win against Exe next season?!

Maybe As.

A long shot. Maybe a 50/1 shot that Tigers win at home. And 5000/1 to get a double.

You do really despise me don't you?

assume you are now the one doing the leg-pulling?!

Yeah Tigers' backline has a really lack of flair. I mean, just look at the total lack of tries they have scored this season...

Yeah Tigers' backline has a really lack of flair. I mean, just look at the total lack of tries they have scored this season...

Injuries hampered us in the HEC though, we only got the 1bp out of the 6 games and that was the home game against Italian opposition.

Has Salvi actually officially signed up for next season?

maverickmak wrote:Yeah Tigers' backline has a really lack of flair. I mean, just look at the total lack of tries they have scored this season...

Honestly, I am really going to have to spell this out properly aren't I?!

I am not suggesting that Tigers have a bad backline. As I have said they are more than a match for most other sides in the Jeff, hence why they have scored so many tries in the Jeff. But to win the HC again they need more creativity. Their pack will not dominate as much and they will play against better defences, so they will need something extra.

I think most of us would agree that we need something extra if we want to take that next step in the HCup but its not just the backline. We got destroyed at the breakdown area against Ulster so that is obviously something we will have to look at for next season in that competition as well.

Obviously the results show this but there does seem to be more a freedom in the way we have played since the Exeter game so hopefully that can carry on into next season. It does also help of course that we have had our internationals back for sustained run of games. It will come and having a real threat of pace on one wing at least will help as well, just to open up space for the centres. I don't know how quick Thompstone is to be fair.

Sorry Bathite but he'll be wearing green, red and white next season.
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Julian-Salvi-keen-stay-Leicester-Tigers/story-15374068-detail/story.html

But to win the HC again they need more creativity. Their pack will not dominate as much and they will play against better defences, so they will need something extra.

I think this is why the wingers are being changed around a bit HKC. Currently the onus is heavilly on the centres to make the breaks or the space for the wingers to run in and finish. Only Agulla has shown any creation and he tends to stay out on his wing, as do Alesana and Hamilton. Thompstone is a bit more explosive and can make things happen in the wider spaces but Benjamin could be the key signing as he loves to come off his wing and look for work. We all saw how effective Ashton was coming off of Flood's shoulder in the 2011 6N so we're hoping for similar with Benjamin. Both wingers also add speed and power to the team which should help defensively as currently the wingers aren't that quick in getting back to help Murphy.

I do think your wing acquisitions have been inspired. Benjamin is a quality player and if he could shine in a backline that has about the most uninspiring centres, he definitely will shine at Tigers. Thompstone is a hell of a player, it is just a question of whether he can regain his pre-injury form.

To make the most of them Tuilagi will need to pass a bit more as he does have a tendancy to run a bit too much.

Manu's passing can be a bit good or a bit non-existant depending on his mood. He's still only 20 though so it's not like there's no time on his side. He certainly passes more than the other Tigers OC option Matt Smith, a Matt Smith pass is rarer than a blue moon, however, being Dosser's son he does tackle like a flanker and carries well enough.

I think to progress in the HEC we just need to keep the team injury free. Having a midfield of Forsyth and Smith against Arioni away and Ulster at home (which became Smith and full back Niall Morris after Forsyth's injury against Ulster). Then no Flood for the final two games really hurt us. Hopefully the acquisition of Bowden will add more cover to 10 as will Ford's development. If we can tape up Deacon enough for just the big games that would help as well (Ledley King style).

It is good to get a couple of good, young wingers in to go along with the youngsters like Lewington coming through, who I thought looked very promising in the LV semi against Bath.

Sam, I don't know anything about Gonvea, who is he?

formerly known as Sam wrote:Sorry Bathite but he'll be wearing green, red and white next season.
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Julian-Salvi-keen-stay-Leicester-Tigers/story-15374068-detail/story.html

But to win the HC again they need more creativity. Their pack will not dominate as much and they will play against better defences, so they will need something extra.

I think this is why the wingers are being changed around a bit HKC. Currently the onus is heavilly on the centres to make the breaks or the space for the wingers to run in and finish. Only Agulla has shown any creation and he tends to stay out on his wing, as do Alesana and Hamilton. Thompstone is a bit more explosive and can make things happen in the wider spaces but Benjamin could be the key signing as he loves to come off his wing and look for work. We all saw how effective Ashton was coming off of Flood's shoulder in the 2011 6N so we're hoping for similar with Benjamin. Both wingers also add speed and power to the team which should help defensively as currently the wingers aren't that quick in getting back to help Murphy.

Yeah, you've quoted that before, but that's him only saying he wants to say. There's still nothing official is there? I assume you'd know if there was as well?

Don't worry Bathite, when Tigers have got the best from him they'll pass him on, probably to Bath where he can stay injured for 90% of the season before retiring or partake in premature try-scoring celebrations before being tackled and held up..

Yeah, you've quoted that before, but that's him only saying he wants to say. There's still nothing official is there? I assume you'd know if there was as well?

It says he's signed up until 2013 and wants to stay an extra year on top of that. On that basis he will be at WR next year so hands off, he's improved a hell of a lot over the course of the season and is well on his way to being a proper Tigers 7.

One of the most usefull things to learn from this season so far would be that the LV cup team you rolled out could probably play half the AP matches and still win them.

Serious scary strength in depth apart from hooker, but then who does have strength there? Just a serious lack of good hookers in England at the moment.

yappysnap wrote:

Serious scary strength in depth apart from hooker, but then who does have strength there?

Sarries - ridiculously so! Why can't they share them around a bit?!

Equo Troiano wrote:Don't worry Bathite, when Tigers have got the best from him they'll pass him on, probably to Bath where he can stay injured for 90% of the season before retiring or partake in premature try-scoring celebrations before being tackled and held up..

haha! classic