Ask the Tart: Archive 1

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Thread archived from https://www.606v2.com/t2445-ask-the-tart - Kiwireddevil

CrippledTart wrote:
By popular demand (Miky), here is a v2 verson of my 606 thread "Ask Me Ref".

As stated on the 606 version, this isn't just for people to ask me questions (I do not consider myself to be the biggest wrestling genius in the world contrary to the impression you get from some of my posts!), it's for people to ask questions and ANYONE who knows the answer to provide it.

This is not an opinion thread, per se. It is for those random wrestling musings you may have had but never got the answer to.

So if there's anything you ever wondered about wrestling, and never knew who to ask, go for it.

Bobby Roode wrote:If Hogan and Bischoff could create their perfect wrestler, who or what would it be like?

Hero wrote:2. Austin.
He’s widely regarded as one of if not the greatest ‘star’ to grace the industry. Whilst Hogan & HHH are often derided by the IWC for using their influence and power backstage, Austin seems above derision. Firstly what abuse of politics has Austin been guilty of, and why does he not fall into the Hogan/HHH category in the eyes of the IWC?

Good question. Steve Austin definitely used his political clout at times, but it was when he thought something was bad for business. Triple H and Hogan have a tendency to bury wrestlers they see as a threat, whereas Austin to my knowledge never acted that way.

He was fiercely protective of his character, and a student of the industry who had a good idea of what was good and bad for business. He was also accused of being paranoid at times.

Austin refused to work programmes with Jeff Jarrett and Billy Gunn in the summer of 1999. Gunn because he didn't rate him, Jarrett because the two had personal heat over Jarrett criticising the "Austin 3:16" gimmick as blasphemous. There were rumours he wouldn't put over Triple H in 1999 as well, but these are believed to be unfounded (he did a job for him at No Mercy). He also refused to do the job in an unadvertised match with Brock Lesnar on Raw in 2002, arguing that it would be bad for business. Austin's logic was that, as the biggest name in the company, it would have more effect if Brock ran through others on his way to a big PPV showdown between the two, where he would be happy to put Brock over.

The business he did in 1998 and 1999 was phenomenal, and meant that he had no political challengers. However Triple H's ascendance led to tension, and Austin felt insecure in his spot as the top guy. This led to a drastic change around 2000, when he suddenly became harder to work with. Austin did not take well to Vince having a new favourite, and protected his territory any time he felt challenged. He did not last much longer as a full-time main eventer, mainly because of his condition but also largely because the situation had diminished his passion for wrestling.

Another key was Austin's character: He was the toughest guy in the room. He took on all kinds of numbers and usually won. This made incredible money but did not lend itself to putting others over. In fact the WWF didn't want him doing jobs to anyone when they could help it - even tainted ones - while so much money was rolling in. Austin's character was dominant, not just physically but also in that he took up everyone's attention. This was a big plus for the WWF in his peak run, but in his latter years it became a hindrance. As the sheriff, when he was for all intents and purposes retired, he undercut every wrestler he came into contact with. And without great feuds to sink his teeth into, his promos suffered, he relied more on the tired beer drinking routine, and became something of a parody.

Austin didn't boost an awful lot of careers, but it wasn't with malice. Therein lies the difference between him and Triple H or Hogan. For the most part, he did what he thought was right for business.

Gregers wrote:Which wrestler in WWE/TNA most needs a Heel turn?

likewise:

Which wrestler in WWE/TNA most needs a Face turn?

Well, it's obviously a question of opinion. I'm not really even sure who is a face and who is a heel in TNA any more!

In WWE, I think CM Punk needs to turn face. The company has had a real problem finding babyfaces its fans can relate to in recent years, and in Punk they have one. But I think they need to be careful about it, not rush it and not have him change his character too much.

I've always felt John Morrison's natural role is as a heel, so I would say he needs a heel turn the most.

This is kind of an opinion question but i need someone with good WCW knowledge- What's the craziest Russo match stipulation you can remember?
Also were there any negotiations to get Lesnar to come back to WWE earlier this year or was that all rumours?

How much has Vince McMahon changed WWE from the way that the indies used to operate (backstage) and do the current indie promotors stick to the old ways of doing things? Basically it would be interesting to know whether the McMahon method has permeated beyond the WWE or not. Thanks .

Ché Guerrero wrote:This is kind of an opinion question but i need someone with good WCW knowledge- What's the craziest Russo match stipulation you can remember?
Also were there any negotiations to get Lesnar to come back to WWE earlier this year or was that all rumours?

Viagra on a Pole match.

Yes, that really happened.

Sorry, missed the second question. I don't know if Lesnar and WWE negotiated. My suspicion is that there were probably preliminary talks, but once the Brock-Taker angle happened Dana White nipped the whole thing in the bud and made it impossible.

Apparently Vince McMahon and Dana White had a meeting a couple of weeks ago, and nobody knows what it was about.

The rumors were that WWE were close to agreeing a DVD deal of some sort with Paul Heyman and Brock Lesnar which is why CM Punk name checked them both on Raw.

JoshSansom wrote:How much has Vince McMahon changed WWE from the way that the indies used to operate (backstage) and do the current indie promotors stick to the old ways of doing things? Basically it would be interesting to know whether the McMahon method has permeated beyond the WWE or not. Thanks .

The industry has changed so much from the territory days that your average indy locker room today would be unrecognisable from the locker rooms of the 60s or 70s. Vince McMahon, as the most influential person in the US wrestling scene over the past 30 years, is as responsible for that as anyone. It's important to note, though, that the territories of the pre-expansion era are a very different thing to the indies of today.

Given that the only full-time wrestling jobs these days are in corporations, a slightly different standard of behaviour has definitely permeated down to the indies. There is little to gain any more from being the legit toughest guy in a promotion, or the one who can stay up partying all night (indeed that is largely frowned upon).

On the other hand, the lack of a corporate atmosphere means there are aspects in the indies which have remained from the territory days. Indies don't have to worry about minute-by-minute TV ratings, PPV buyrates, scripted promos, a creative team and so on; the layout and booking of a card far more closely resembles that of a territory show from the old days than anything you'd see on WWE TV.

But as far as influencing the indies, naturally WWE has to an extent, the same way any brand leader influences an industry.

invincibleILeak (CL-6WF) wrote:Apparently Vince McMahon and Dana White had a meeting a couple of weeks ago, and nobody knows what it was about.

The rumors were that WWE were close to agreeing a DVD deal of some sort with Paul Heyman and Brock Lesnar which is why CM Punk name checked them both on Raw.

The meeting was apparently a visit by Dana to WWE HQ to meet with Vince about WWE marketing initiatives that UFC could try to emulate.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

invincibleILeak (CL-6WF) wrote:Apparently Vince McMahon and Dana White had a meeting a couple of weeks ago, and nobody knows what it was about.

The rumors were that WWE were close to agreeing a DVD deal of some sort with Paul Heyman and Brock Lesnar which is why CM Punk name checked them both on Raw.

The meeting was apparently a visit by Dana to WWE HQ to meet with Vince about WWE marketing initiatives that UFC could try to emulate.

I would be very surprised if Brock's name wasn't brought up though.

Okay cripps, being as you seem to avoid questions about who you are I have one that you can maybe answer:

Why did the Nexus come out on Raw/ Smackdown (watched them both together so cant remember which) to defend the titles against the Usos with the same music that Justin Gabriel uses?

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:Okay cripps, being as you seem to avoid questions about who you are I have one that you can maybe answer:

He has answered in the past, but it's up to him who and what he tells.

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:Okay cripps, being as you seem to avoid questions about who you are I have one that you can maybe answer:

Why did the Nexus come out on Raw/ Smackdown (watched them both together so cant remember which) to defend the titles against the Usos with the same music that Justin Gabriel uses?

Well, it's either a subtle hint of a Nexus reunion, or WWE just doesn't care about the former Nexus members any more. I think the latter probably.

Sorry if I didn't answer a question about who I am, I must have not seen it. I'm nobody important, I've never been employed by a wrestling company or publication or website and I haven't even attended a lot of wrestling events. I've never been in a wrestling ring and I've never been to America. No wrestlers or promoters or fans or prominent wrestling journalists have ever heard of me. I have just read a lot and studied a lot about the industry.

What is the worst thing that McMahon being vince done to anyone in wrestling bar the screwjob?

Holymiky wrote:What is the worst thing that McMahon being vince done to anyone in wrestling bar the screwjob?

That scene where he spanked Trish, put me off her for life!!!!

Holymiky wrote:What is the worst thing that McMahon being vince done to anyone in wrestling bar the screwjob?

I'm pretty sure Vince McMahon has done lots of awful things that you and I have never even heard about!

That's probably true crips but out of the stories you have heard?

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:Okay cripps, being as you seem to avoid questions about who you are I have one that you can maybe answer:

Why did the Nexus come out on Raw/ Smackdown (watched them both together so cant remember which) to defend the titles against the Usos with the same music that Justin Gabriel uses?

Well, it's either a subtle hint of a Nexus reunion, or WWE just doesn't care about the former Nexus members any more. I think the latter probably.

Sorry if I didn't answer a question about who I am, I must have not seen it. I'm nobody important, I've never been employed by a wrestling company or publication or website and I haven't even attended a lot of wrestling events. I've never been in a wrestling ring and I've never been to America. No wrestlers or promoters or fans or prominent wrestling journalists have ever heard of me. I have just read a lot and studied a lot about the industry.

Thank you. And respect to you for how much you have found out.

Could Justin Gabriel be a future WWE Champion? I think he has all the tools to become massive as a face.

And the more we get to see his sweet 450 splash the better

Gregers wrote:Could Justin Gabriel be a future WWE Champion? I think he has all the tools to become massive as a face.

And the more we get to see his sweet 450 splash the better

I don't think so. I can see him being a IC/US title level babyface but I think he's too small, without the other tools to make up for it, to be world champion.

I like him personally but I just don't fit he fits the typical mould WWE looks for. He's small, he hardly exudes charisma, he's not good on the mic and it remains to be seen whether he would ever be able to tell a 25 minute story in a main event match.

I hope that I am wrong, but looking at him right now I don't think there is anything about him that would make WWE management consider him as a possible champion one day.

Morning crips, following on from your reply there, do www genuinely know or have a rough idea of who is gonna be a world champion? I heard that they just book like weekly I'm sure now and I think thats what people especially the iwc have a problem with. If so, did they ever book long storylines, I'm sure they did but I'm guessing the reason they don't now is because something has happened which has made them have to change the story to suit. Are there any standout examples of this?

Holymiky wrote:Morning crips, following on from your reply there, do www genuinely know or have a rough idea of who is gonna be a world champion? I heard that they just book like weekly I'm sure now and I think thats what people especially the iwc have a problem with. If so, did they ever book long storylines, I'm sure they did but I'm guessing the reason they don't now is because something has happened which has made them have to change the story to suit. Are there any standout examples of this?

Yes, in general they book weekly, and often they don't even know how and when the storylines will end, which is really shocking. There is no other scripted drama that has such bad habits. The reason for the change is I think a combination of things, but obviously the catalyst was the huge shift in WWE's business model to weekly episodic TV in the 90s. In the 80s and prior to that, the company could book a storyline that lasted 8 or 9 months because that would only cover two PPVs, and because the wrestlers would only be expected to encounter each other a couple of times on TV in that period (and never in a match). They could then put the match on house shows for all that time and draw because it was the first time the fans would see those wrestlers in a match.

The Monday Night Wars created writing habits, with both companies giving far too much away on free TV. The addition of Vince Russo to the WWF writing team led to more bad habits being formed, and storylines being even more rushed, and all these years later, a decade after the wars ended, WWE has still never rectified those habits. There is a fear that taking away what the viewers have become accustomed to will lead to a ratings drop. Furthermore, in recent years TV revenue has become such a bigger part of WWE's income that they make just as much money from Raw as they do from PPVs, and far more than they do from house shows, so there is a requirement to keep giving away more and more on free TV to keep the ratings. All the top stars are expected to be on TV every week, with many of them wrestling every week and needing new PPV opponents every month. The pace just isn't sustainable. In the old days, a feud would be built up by featuring the wrestlers in squash matches, showing promos by the wrestlers, and maybe having one confrontation where the heel would beat down the babyface. Wrestlers were kept apart so their match on PPV would mean something.

These days, Vince McMahon may say "I want this storyline, I want it to last 13 weeks, and this is how I want it to end". But as the writing team updates the storyline each week, tweaks are made. Gradually, by week 5 or 6, the storyline has strayed so far off course that the planned ending is no longer an option. An example is the Nexus storyline. Obviously the original plan was for the Anonymous GM to be revealed as the mastermind behind Nexus. I think it was Triple H, although that is only a theory. But as time went on, the story changed so much that it was scrapped. You'd think an angle as huge as the Nexus one would have a planned beginning, middle and end, but alas it was missing the middle, and by the time the middle was written, it didn't match up with the end!

As for future world champions, WWE has no idea who it wants to be world champions in a year's time, but obviously there are certain wrestlers who catch the eye of management. Clearly, Vince McMahon is expecting a greater future from Dolph Ziggler and Cody Rhodes than JTG and Yoshi Tatsu. So in that sense, nothing is planned out ahead of time, but those wrestlers will be protected a little more, they aren't a complete afterthought. Justin Gabriel may very well be a champion one day, but like the other former Nexus members (except maybe Wade Barrett) it isn't considered likely, more of a possibility than a probability, so he is a low priority.

Continuing with Nexus, what happened to The Undertaker angle? I was really interested when they helped Kane win the Buried Alive match and was waiting for Takers response. BUt once again, it has been swept under the rug without a further mention...

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:Continuing with Nexus, what happened to The Undertaker angle? I was really interested when they helped Kane win the Buried Alive match and was waiting for Takers response. BUt once again, it has been swept under the rug without a further mention...

Obviously, plans changed. My guess is that it was supposed to set up Undertaker vs Wade Barrett or Undertaker vs Triple H at Wrestlemania (with Triple H the heel mastermind behind Nexus)

I suppose it could still be used in the future for a Taker v Barrett match.

Is there anyway that WWE could turn Nexes round now?

And

Apart from Barrett, who of all the ex Nexes/NexSES/New Nexes/Corre members will have the greatest career?

Gregers wrote:Is there anyway that WWE could turn Nexes round now?

And

Apart from Barrett, who of all the ex Nexes/NexSES/New Nexes/Corre members will have the greatest career?

I don't think they have any interest in turning Nexus around. The group served a short-term purpose and now WWE isn't bothered about it any more. Whether that is the right way to book the product is a different matter, but the fact is that is how WWE books its product: A new heel is built up every month or two to challenge the big babyface star, and then returns to the midcard afterwards. In fairness, it's a modern take on how they booked Hogan, and that worked out ok.

I think you're right that Barrett has the best upside of the group in WWE. As for which Nexus/Corre member will have the greatest career, it may be that Daniel Bryan has already had it! Of course, it's impossible to say which of the others can be breakout stars, but I would guess that Ezekiel Jackson and Skip Sheffield have the best chance of making it as long-term stars in WWE simply because they have the look Vince likes, so they will get the most opportunities.

You never know though. Who would have predicted that Eddie Guerrero would be the breakout star from the Radicalz? Who would have predicted back when he debuted that The Miz would ever walk out of a Wrestlemania with the WWE title? Who would have predicted that JBL could go from tag team afterthought to world champion so quickly and believably?

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

Ché Guerrero wrote:This is kind of an opinion question but i need someone with good WCW knowledge- What's the craziest Russo match stipulation you can remember?
Also were there any negotiations to get Lesnar to come back to WWE earlier this year or was that all rumours?

Viagra on a Pole match.

Yes, that really happened.

Please, for the sake of my sanity, can you explain how the he'll he managed to write that storyline?! I won't ask you what he was thinking and how he thought it was a good idea - you seem reasonably sane.

Morning all,

I remember seeing the episode of raw towards the end of last year building up to survivor series with the free or fired stipulation and I remember Roddy Piper had his pipers pit and I remember I'm saying he was never WWE or WWF champion, why is this? Obviously he is a good talker but what Held vince or whoever back from making him champ?

Hey Miky,

Basically, Vince and Piper share a deep rooted hatred for each other. It dates back to when Piper first started out. There was an incident involving Linda and a Kilt which Vince was not happy about. Vince recognised the potential in Piper but made it his mission to never see him hold the big ones.

Thanks KB!

No worries mate!

Has any wrestler been genuinely hated? Like they were a heel but people booed them because they hated them even as a face?

Holymiky wrote:Has any wrestler been genuinely hated? Like they were a heel but people booed them because they hated them even as a face?

X-Pac got booed pretty much all the time. I still remember at the Invasion PPV when he should have been the good guy against Billy Kidman I believe and yet got booed out of the building.

Anyone know why this was the case?

JoshSansom wrote:

Holymiky wrote:Has any wrestler been genuinely hated? Like they were a heel but people booed them because they hated them even as a face?

X-Pac got booed pretty much all the time. I still remember at the Invasion PPV when he should have been the good guy against Billy Kidman I believe and yet got booed out of the building.

Anyone know why this was the case?

It's known as X-Pac heat. Basically, when the fans couldn't give a sh*t what you do, they just boo you out of the building every time.

Hey Crips,

I know it's another 'opinion' question, but I've always wondered...







... Pot Noodle, or Super Noodles?

Holymiky wrote:Morning all,

I remember seeing the episode of raw towards the end of last year building up to survivor series with the free or fired stipulation and I remember Roddy Piper had his pipers pit and I remember I'm saying he was never WWE or WWF champion, why is this? Obviously he is a good talker but what Held vince or whoever back from making him champ?

Well, back in those days the world title wasn't handed around to everyone and his dog. Nowadays you aren't an established main eventer until you've had 5 title reigns, but in Piper's day it was different.

Piper was a huge star. In the expansion period, he was number two in the company to Hogan, and a massive draw. He probably had his best run prior to joining the WWF, but certainly his most lucrative stint was during the 80s in the WWF, first as a hated heel and then as a beloved face.

But he didn't need world titles. He could talk people into paying money to see him. He was a mainstream star. He could main event anywhere. All without the need for a world title.

Besides, Hogan was the champion, it was as simple as that. For four years straight between 1984 and 1988, and for a large part of the next five years as well. The WWF/WWE has always revolved around one top babyface, whether it was Bruno or Hogan or Austin or Cena; the difference being that in the 80s there wasn't four hours of weekly TV featuring the top stars wrestling each other and there wasn't a PPV every single month.

Therefore Piper could be a star without holding a title, which seems alien today. For the fans who paid to see him at house shows or bought Wrestlemania, it was enough that they got to see the famous Rowdy Roddy Piper wrestle live. Piper was absolutely gifted on the mic, and while not a great technician he could have the fans on the edge of their seats by telling a story in his matches. Also, he never jobbed to anybody! It seems unthinkable now that a wrestler could go 7 years without ever being pinned and yet still not hold a title, but that's the sort of thing you could get away with in the 80s that just wouldn't be possible now.

No doubt if he was around nowadays he would be a multi-time world champion, but then again nobody from that era would be as big a deal in this one, where the wrestlers are overexposed and title reigns and changes mean next to nothing. Even Hogan, as much of a star as he was, wouldn't have had anything like the same success if he'd been on TV every single week, on PPV every single month, and traded the title with all the other top stars.

So it really isn't a bad thing that Piper never won a world title, and he knows that as much as anyone.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

Holymiky wrote:Morning all,

I remember seeing the episode of raw towards the end of last year building up to survivor series with the free or fired stipulation and I remember Roddy Piper had his pipers pit and I remember I'm saying he was never WWE or WWF champion, why is this? Obviously he is a good talker but what Held vince or whoever back from making him champ?

Well, back in those days the world title wasn't handed around to everyone and his dog. Nowadays you aren't an established main eventer until you've had 5 title reigns, but in Piper's day it was different.

Piper was a huge star. In the expansion period, he was number two in the company to Hogan, and a massive draw. He probably had his best run prior to joining the WWF, but certainly his most lucrative stint was during the 80s in the WWF, first as a hated heel and then as a beloved face.

But he didn't need world titles. He could talk people into paying money to see him. He was a mainstream star. He could main event anywhere. All without the need for a world title.

Besides, Hogan was the champion, it was as simple as that. For four years straight between 1984 and 1988, and for a large part of the next five years as well. The WWF/WWE has always revolved around one top babyface, whether it was Bruno or Hogan or Austin or Cena; the difference being that in the 80s there wasn't four hours of weekly TV featuring the top stars wrestling each other and there wasn't a PPV every single month.

Therefore Piper could be a star without holding a title, which seems alien today. For the fans who paid to see him at house shows or bought Wrestlemania, it was enough that they got to see the famous Rowdy Roddy Piper wrestle live. Piper was absolutely gifted on the mic, and while not a great technician he could have the fans on the edge of their seats by telling a story in his matches. Also, he never jobbed to anybody! It seems unthinkable now that a wrestler could go 7 years without ever being pinned and yet still not hold a title, but that's the sort of thing you could get away with in the 80s that just wouldn't be possible now.

No doubt if he was around nowadays he would be a multi-time world champion, but then again nobody from that era would be as big a deal in this one, where the wrestlers are overexposed and title reigns and changes mean next to nothing. Even Hogan, as much of a star as he was, wouldn't have had anything like the same success if he'd been on TV every single week, on PPV every single month, and traded the title with all the other top stars.

So it really isn't a bad thing that Piper never won a world title, and he knows that as much as anyone.

And also the Vince/Linda/Piper kilt thing, right?

Sorry, I missed that paragraph out. The Vince/Linda/Piper kilt thing was quite a big factor too.

Crips,

What was the incident with Linda and the kilt? Never heard that one before

SirJohnnyEnglish wrote:Crips,

What was the incident with Linda and the kilt? Never heard that one before

Basically, back in 1973, shortly after Piper started wrestling for the AWA. They played a 'house show' in Maine, NE, where Vince was working as an announcer. Piper was only just on the scene and was pretty green, but screamed potential. Anyway, Vince had been married to Linda for about 9 years? During this part she'd gotten a reputation for being a boozehound. Very difficult to keep under control, and at times was an embarrassment to Vince. Piper was the same, he live an almost rockstar lifestyle and after the show he and Linda got chatting backstage over a few drinks. Vince was reportedly swooning roung the 'bigtime' promoters, trying to enhance his rep, whilst his wife and Piper drank. Later on in the evening, Vince found his wife pretty bladdered, trying to put her hand up Piper's kilt to check if her was...... a true Scot.

Needless to say, Vince was fuming and humiliated. Not to mention being made to look a fool infront of some serious movers. He placed the blame solely on Piper for getting Linda drunk and never let him forget it.

King Beer wrote:

SirJohnnyEnglish wrote:Crips,

What was the incident with Linda and the kilt? Never heard that one before

Basically, back in 1973, shortly after Piper started wrestling for the AWA. They played a 'house show' in Maine, NE, where Vince was working as an announcer. Piper was only just on the scene and was pretty green, but screamed potential. Anyway, Vince had been married to Linda for about 9 years? During this part she'd gotten a reputation for being a boozehound. Very difficult to keep under control, and at times was an embarrassment to Vince. Piper was the same, he live an almost rockstar lifestyle and after the show he and Linda got chatting backstage over a few drinks. Vince was reportedly swooning roung the 'bigtime' promoters, trying to enhance his rep, whilst his wife and Piper drank. Later on in the evening, Vince found his wife pretty bladdered, trying to put her hand up Piper's kilt to check if her was...... a true Scot.

Needless to say, Vince was fuming and humiliated. Not to mention being made to look a fool infront of some serious movers. He placed the blame solely on Piper for getting Linda drunk and never let him forget it.

You're close to the truth.

Back in those days Piper wrestled simply as Rodney Piper from Canada. Linda actually turned up for the show wearing a tartan skirt. Somewhere along the way Linda and Piper got so drunk that he ended up wearing the skirt and pretending to be Scottish.

Vince never forgot walking into the room with all the other promoters to find his half-naked wife rummaging around in Piper's "kilt", and when he signed Piper a decade later he punished him by forcing him to play a humiliating Scottish character, complete with kilt. Obviously, the move backfired as Piper embraced the gimmick and got over as a huge star.

Eventually Vince and Piper made peace, and whenever the company has done a cross-dressing gimmick since then (The Headbangers, Brian Pillman, Andre The Giant) they have always announced the wrestlers' hometown as Maine, NE as an inside joke on the whole incident.

Cheers guys

Which wrestler or manager or commentator has had the most heat as a heel?

Holymiky wrote:Which wrestler or manager or commentator has had the most heat as a heel?

In my lifetime watching wrestling, I recall Rick Rude in WCW in 1992. There was one particular PPV which I think was Beach Blast 92 where he tried to cut his usual pre-match promo and you literally couldn't hear him over the booing. But I'm sure there are hundreds of examples of greater heel heat from the territory days.

For a heel in the old days, you took your life in your hands at times. I can't remember ever hearing of wrestlers being killed, but there were regular stabbings and there is an infamous story from Mid-South in the early 80s when Junkyard Dog was the top star. There was an angle where JYD was blinded by the Freebirds' hair removal cream (yes this really happened!) and the promotion sold for weeks that he may never see again, and wasn't even able to see the birth of his daughter.

After a few weeks a still-blinded Dog made his return to the promotion to give a farewell speech. Presumably this was the part of the angle where he would reveal he had regained his sight and would be out for revenge on the Freebirds. But it never got that far, because a fan hopped the guardrail and pulled a gun on Michael Hayes, screaming "I've got you covered Dog".

I don't think it gets much more heated than that, but certainly the life of a heel was a risky existence in the days when all that many poor communities had was their wrestling hero.

Thanks for the replies all,

I've seen before on here and mainly 606 that Rey gets a lot of heat from the IWC because of his so called backstage pull. Does he really have that much say in goings on and if so what is the reason why? What is one of his antics?

Holymiky wrote:Thanks for the replies all,

I've seen before on here and mainly 606 that Rey gets a lot of heat from the IWC because of his so called backstage pull. Does he really have that much say in goings on and if so what is the reason why? What is one of his antics?

While I can't comment on his backstage pull or antics, a lot of the heat comes from the way he is booked. He goes into every feud as the underdog yet has one multiple championships and has a win rate of 61%. A lot of it is anger at the WWE seemingly treating fans like idiots.

I would imagine that he does have some backstage influence because he has been in the company so long and has a strong presence in the Latino market (and WWE want to resign him) though whether he has looked to utilise this I am not sure. I do believe that he requested a programme with Cody Rhodes and put him over well and also has worked a number of programmes with CM Punk. From a recent interview Punk seems to like and respect Mysterio a lot so I would guess that he isn't too much of a prima donna or ass kisser as I doubt Punk would like him if he were.

I have never really understood the resentment towards Mysterio, and I've said that a number of times before.

Yes he is a kiddie act, but I think after the sacrifices he's made in his career and the obstacles he has overcome, he deserves to take it easy and rake in big money as his career dies down.

I've always found it hypocritical when the same people criticising the fact that he is booked to beat much larger wrestlers are often the people who complain when wrestling promotions are full of talentless muscleheads. I think it would be lazy booking, a waste of his talent and a really bad message to send out if they just had everyone else beat him because he's small. Ironically, back when he was an internet favourite in his WCW days, people regularly complained about the way he was portrayed as inferior to larger wrestlers (and he was a lot less muscular then!).

I've heard rumours of him refusing to job to Ziggler in 2009 but they are only rumours and none of us know his reasons; I believe there was a falling out between Mysterio and WWE about a wellness violation at the time, so it may have been that he felt a sense of injustice towards WWE rather than having any desire to sabotage Ziggler's career. I'm not aware of any other wrestlers ever having a bad word to say about him. Apparently he is someone who tries to avoid backstage politics whenever possible, although he has butted heads with WWE management at times when he felt like they were in the wrong. Again, you can't judge someone for standing up for himself until you know the facts.

One thing I do know is that he has never set out to make an opponent look like a fool, he sells every angle he is a part of and he always, always makes his opponent look good. That's more that can be said for other veterans who we should supposedly respect. I would put him in the same league as Jericho when it comes to giving back to the business and helping elevate younger wrestlers out of a sense of decency and tradition.

He's not one of my favourite wrestlers, and not as exciting as he once was, but his WWE kiddie-friendly incarnation has made both him and the company a lot of money, far more than he ever made anywhere else, and I think he deserves it. Rey Mysterio has broken down barriers for generations to come, and given his body in the process. I can't think of a wrestler I have more respect for.

Very well put Davies - my personal issue isn't with Rey as much as they way that the commentators make it sound as though he is the underdog because of his size. It is repetitive and I am not a fan of him being referred to as a constant underdog.

It would be better if they went for playing up his speed or ring nous as being things that make up for his lack of size.

I still think he has a lot to give to the business and if he could get into some programmes with guys like Miz or Ziggler then there could be some really good matches and they could benefit from them.

Do you think that there is a little bit of resentment at the way that WWE (and therefore by association Rey) tried to profit from the death of Eddie Guerrero?

Thanks Crips.

JoshSansom wrote:Do you think that there is a little bit of resentment at the way that WWE (and therefore by association Rey) tried to profit from the death of Eddie Guerrero?

Yeah I think that was the point when a lot of fans turned on him. I suppose he could have tried to veto some of the ideas (such as Orton's promo or Rey coming out in the car) but maybe he did try to veto them and WWE wouldn't budge. Maybe Rey just didn't have a problem with those angles. Eddie, after all, had participated in an angle where his mother had a "heart attack", so he wasn't averse to cheap heat himself.

I imagine that, like many of us would, Mysterio ultimately justified it to himself and saw the world title reign as a tribute to his close friend. After all, how many people would refuse to accept a world title?

I would put the blame for any cheap heat garnered from Eddie's death squarely at the feet of WWE.