Three words to define a nation's rugby character

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed May 02, 2012 6:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

It's no surprise to most on here that the different rugby nations play the game in different styles. But can we distill those styles down to an ethos for various countries. I did some research for a comment on another thread this afternoon and stumbled across the "Southern Style" based around the ruck pioneered by Vic Cavanagh Sr and Jr and Charlie Sexton in the 30s, 40s and 50s which flowed into the NZ game as a whole. Sexton defined that ethos as "Position, Possession and Pace" which I think still defines NZ rugby - get field position, get the ball, and run it over the line.

So looking at the major rugby nations (alphabetically), what do people think are the key attributes?
Argentina
Australia
England
France
Ireland
New Zealand - Position, Possession, Pace
Scotland
South Africa
Wales

Some other key words for consideration (please feel free to suggest others)
Flair - Australia, France, Wales
Power - Argentina, England, South Africa
Set-piece
Precision
Unpredictability
Audacity
Pluck
Self-belief
Unity
Planning
Pressure
Defence
Simplicity
etc

I'd like to see if we can get a v2Journal article out of this that distills the collective wisdom of v2.

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 9:41 am

eirebilly wrote:
biltongbek wrote:New zealand - two world cups Should be 3 but lost one due to food poisening But back to two after Bryce Lawrence is fired.
Australia - two world cups
South Africa - two world cups Should be 1 after poisening the AB's in 1995, But back to two after Bryce Lawrence is fired.
England - one world cup.
everyone else - no world cups.

Thats the way to stir the pot biltong

Might be, but then it is more than three words.

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 9:43 am

eirebilly wrote:
biltongbek wrote:New zealand - two world cups Should be 3 but lost one due to food poisening
Australia - two world cups
South Africa - two world cups Should be 1 after poisening the AB's in 1995
England - one world cup.
everyone else - no world cups.

Thats the way to stir the pot biltong

We never MADE them eat the poison, they CHOSE to. Three words to define a nation's rugby character - Page 2 Fishin10

by eirebilly Thu May 03, 2012 10:04 am

biltongbek wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
biltongbek wrote:New zealand - two world cups Should be 3 but lost one due to food poisening But back to two after Bryce Lawrence is fired.
Australia - two world cups
South Africa - two world cups Should be 1 after poisening the AB's in 1995, But back to two after Bryce Lawrence is fired.
England - one world cup.
everyone else - no world cups.

Thats the way to stir the pot biltong

Might be, but then it is more than three words.

by KickAndChase Thu May 03, 2012 10:07 am

Scotland: For ****s sake.

by Breadvan Thu May 03, 2012 10:08 am

England- Bomber we trust.
Wales- Finally beat SH?
Ireland- Always there but....
Scotland- Where to now?
France- Whats going on?
Italy- All about Parrise'
NZ- Finally did it

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu May 03, 2012 10:08 am

Wales: pink cowboy hats.

by LordDowlais Thu May 03, 2012 10:09 am

Biltong, where are you getting all these nice new elaborate smilies from ?

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 10:09 am

South Africa - Pieter Doh

Villiers

by eirebilly Thu May 03, 2012 10:12 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Wales: pink cowboy hats.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu May 03, 2012 11:00 am

biltongbek wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
biltongbek wrote:New zealand - two world cups Should be 3 but lost one due to food poisening But back to two after Bryce Lawrence is fired. But back to 3 after Wayne Barnes is fired
Australia - two world cups
South Africa - two world cups Should be 1 after poisening the AB's in 1995, But back to two after Bryce Lawrence is fired.But back to 1 after Wayne Barnes is fired
England - one world cup.
everyone else - no world cups.

Thats the way to stir the pot biltong

Might be, but then it is more than three words.

Fixed that for you Wink

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 11:16 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
biltongbek wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
biltongbek wrote:New zealand - two world cups Should be 3 but lost one due to food poisening But back to two after Bryce Lawrence is fired. But back to 3 after Wayne Barnes is firedBack to 2, cuase we weren't there in 1987.
Australia - two world cups Back to one, cause we weren't there.
South Africa - two world cups Should be 1 after poisening the AB's in 1995, But back to two after Bryce Lawrence is fired.But back to 1 after Wayne Barnes is fired Back to three cause we woulda, coulda, and shoulda won in 1987 and 1991
England - one world cup.
everyone else - no world cups.

Thats the way to stir the pot biltong

Might be, but then it is more than three words.

Fixed that for you

now that seems almost right. Three words to define a nation's rugby character - Page 2 Wave11

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu May 03, 2012 11:19 am

This is becoming a World Cup Winners' love-in! tomato

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 11:19 am

Kiwi, you do realise billy is the one that started all this. (He is now sitting back, spilling his coffee whilst watching us squirm and squeel.)

Methinks, we just leave it at two each. Wink

by eirebilly Thu May 03, 2012 11:30 am

Nah keep going Wink

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu May 03, 2012 11:31 am

biltongbek wrote:Kiwi, you do realise billy is the one that started all this. (He is now sitting back, spilling his coffee whilst watching us squirm and squeel.)

Methinks, we just leave it at two each.

Sounds fair to me. And 0 to Ireland Wink

by eirebilly Thu May 03, 2012 11:32 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
biltongbek wrote:Kiwi, you do realise billy is the one that started all this. (He is now sitting back, spilling his coffee whilst watching us squirm and squeel.)

Methinks, we just leave it at two each.

Sounds fair to me. And 0 to Ireland

Obviously you dont live in my world where Ireland are 5 time World Champs. Come on over, its a great world Wink

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 11:35 am

eirebilly wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
biltongbek wrote:Kiwi, you do realise billy is the one that started all this. (He is now sitting back, spilling his coffee whilst watching us squirm and squeel.)

Methinks, we just leave it at two each.

Sounds fair to me. And 0 to Ireland

Obviously you dont live in my world where Ireland are 5 time World Champs. Come on over, its a great world

Three words to define a nation's rugby character - Page 2 438_lol

Three words to define a nation's rugby character - Page 2 Roflbl10

Billy, you'll always have Ireland vs SA 2004 and Paul Honiss. furious

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu May 03, 2012 11:42 am

eirebilly wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
biltongbek wrote:Kiwi, you do realise billy is the one that started all this. (He is now sitting back, spilling his coffee whilst watching us squirm and squeel.)

Methinks, we just leave it at two each.

Sounds fair to me. And 0 to Ireland

Obviously you dont live in my world where Ireland are 5 time World Champs. Come on over, its a great world

Ah, the world created by Dutch coffee shops Very Happy

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 11:44 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
biltongbek wrote:Kiwi, you do realise billy is the one that started all this. (He is now sitting back, spilling his coffee whilst watching us squirm and squeel.)

Methinks, we just leave it at two each.

Sounds fair to me. And 0 to Ireland

Obviously you dont live in my world where Ireland are 5 time World Champs. Come on over, its a great world

Ah, the world created by Dutch coffee shops

Problem is those foreigners will pretty soon not be that "high" anymore and come down crashing to reality, (0 world cups) Erm

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu May 03, 2012 11:45 am

biltongbek wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
biltongbek wrote:Kiwi, you do realise billy is the one that started all this. (He is now sitting back, spilling his coffee whilst watching us squirm and squeel.)

Methinks, we just leave it at two each.

Sounds fair to me. And 0 to Ireland

Obviously you dont live in my world where Ireland are 5 time World Champs. Come on over, its a great world

Ah, the world created by Dutch coffee shops

Problem is those foreigners will pretty soon not be that "high" anymore and come down crashing to reality, (0 world cups)

I'm pretty sure Billy has his "resident" card. I know Gibbo has Whistle

by mystiroakey Thu May 03, 2012 11:49 am

if amsterdam takes on the recendency card idea then all hell will break loose- never gonna happen!

However if it does happene everywhere else- amsterdam is gonna become twice as busy!!- and i probally wont venture to the other towns like den haag, breda, mastricht,rotterdam etc!!

shame really!

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 11:50 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
biltongbek wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
biltongbek wrote:Kiwi, you do realise billy is the one that started all this. (He is now sitting back, spilling his coffee whilst watching us squirm and squeel.)

Methinks, we just leave it at two each.

Sounds fair to me. And 0 to Ireland

Obviously you dont live in my world where Ireland are 5 time World Champs. Come on over, its a great world

Ah, the world created by Dutch coffee shops

Problem is those foreigners will pretty soon not be that "high" anymore and come down crashing to reality, (0 world cups)

I'm pretty sure Billy has his "resident" card. I know Gibbo has

So lala land it remains then. laughing

by sean.c Thu May 03, 2012 1:30 pm

Ireland - constantly disappointing me
England - the auld enemy
Scotland - room for improvement
Wales - the millennium stadium

by eirebilly Thu May 03, 2012 2:50 pm

What, i have missed all this. Just sorting my card out. Got bleedin scared that i may have to return to reality. Back to 5 world Cup land it is Wink

by Irish Londoner Thu May 03, 2012 3:41 pm

Australia - Not good losers
New Zealand - Stupid f**king Dance
South Africa - Where to now
Ireland - World Cup Dissapointment
Wales - Not there yet
Scotland - Praying for Visser
England - Too many Saffers
Italy - Maybe one day

by red_stag Thu May 03, 2012 3:41 pm

Three words to define Ireland: ULSTER, MUNSTER, LEINSTER

by pontylad Thu May 03, 2012 3:41 pm

NZ -Beat them all
Boks-Bash them all
Aussies -Flash them all
England -Bore them all Whistle

Argies -Wrestle them all
French-F**k them all
Scots-Lose them all
Wales-Slam them all
Ireland -Falter them all
Italy-Shove them all

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu May 03, 2012 5:58 pm

I'm going to cheat with hyphens and brackets for some.

Australia: weakness-hiding, strength-excelling, broken-play-brilliance.

NZ: ruthless, basics, belief

SA: bruising (not a nickname for Bryce or what you'd like to do to him Biltong) kinetic energy

France: Schizophrenia, Closet Bee-Gees (are capable of showing off flair but haven't been seen in recent times)

England: Merkel (very tight with a reputation for not giving away anything), and Rolling Stones (still talked about and relevant today but would be nice some new success)

Wales: Jurassic Age Fossils (relics of the past that have been revived on screen in recent times and shown to be fiercely real).

Ireland: Liver (much like Kidney one that polarises tastes), Generation Y and Golden (a team full of old, young, inexperienced, experienced players)

Scotland: false new dawn

Italy: jammy ugly mate (one with a face that could make an onion cry who manages to pull the odd hot bird. How does he do it?)

Roumania / Georgia / Russia prop x fifteen

Argentina Annoying prodigal son. Cast out into isolation and yet comes back and hogs the limelight.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu May 03, 2012 6:12 pm

I've seen the word flair come up a few times with regards to Wales. Not a team I would associate with that word at all. Quick, physical and passionate would suit their style more. There are not many (if any) players with real flair in the welsh team honestly. They play a physical and fast paced game.

by Feckless Rogue Thu May 03, 2012 6:40 pm

Flair would apply to the traditional view of Welsh rugby. The Welsh way. And definitely passion. I don't think there are any crowds in world rugby that are more passionate than those in the Millenium Stadium.

But it's true the Welsh team of the last year or so is more about strong defence, good kicking and brute force going forward. I wouldn't say the fans will be to unhappy if the results keep coming.

But what happens if they add a bit more flair and style to their already effective game? Shocked

Bad news for the rest of us. I think this Welsh team has room for improvement.

by BigTrevsbigmac Thu May 03, 2012 7:01 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Wales are becoming more patient (probably something to do with having a Kiwi at the helm), but it's not the first thing that springs to mind with us.

Sorry far too many words Luckless..

by theslosty Thu May 03, 2012 7:50 pm

Wales - Passionate, powerful, promising
Ireland - Experienced yet confusing and frustrating
England - Solid, consistent but undynamic
France - Scintillating, horrific, nonchalant
South Africa - Forceful, formidable, transitional
Australia - Athletic, youthfuls, exciting
NZ - Skilful, quick, precision
Scotland - Hope, disappointment, unfortunate
Italy - Proud, unity, uncreative

by Rava Thu May 03, 2012 8:02 pm

Scotland - Another Knock On

Wales - Every Time Ref

by Barney McGrew did it Thu May 03, 2012 8:03 pm

England - Sugar and spice, and everything nice

The rest - Slugs and snails, and puppy-dogs' tails

by Rory_Gallagher Thu May 03, 2012 8:41 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:Flair would apply to the traditional view of Welsh rugby. The Welsh way. And definitely passion. I don't think there are any crowds in world rugby that are more passionate than those in the Millenium Stadium.

But it's true the Welsh team of the last year or so is more about strong defence, good kicking and brute force going forward. I wouldn't say the fans will be to unhappy if the results keep coming.

But what happens if they add a bit more flair and style to their already effective game? Bad news for the rest of us. I think this Welsh team has room for improvement.

But if they add flair to their team, they will probably lose a bit of physicality Wink

I think the game plan they are using now is very effective for the players Wales have at their disposal. They don't really need O'Driscoll type centres, when they have 6 foot giants running riot..

by Guest Thu May 03, 2012 9:16 pm

All blacks = Sir Graham Henry
England = Sir Clive Woodward
Wales = Sir Tasker Watkins
Scotland = Sir Ian McGeechan
Australia = Dame Edna Everage

by aucklandlaurie Thu May 03, 2012 9:18 pm

Ireland=Sir Anthony O'Relly.

by thebluesmancometh Thu May 03, 2012 10:15 pm

Wales - WTF?! That is easily the most apt 3 words I can say about wales, wether good or bad, they are bemusing!

by Guest Thu May 03, 2012 10:28 pm

Good work Laurie, that's the set isn't it?

Sorry oz, if Dame Edna did play rugby, she'd bring just the right amount of flair to slot into that backline of yours.

by **Biltong** Fri May 04, 2012 6:52 am

EBOP wrote:All blacks = Sir Graham Henry
England = Sir Clive Woodward
Wales = Sir Tasker Watkins
Scotland = Sir Ian McGeechan
Australia = Dame Edna Everage

South Africa - Meneer Pieter Doh

Villiers.

That's about the best we can offer in that lineup. Rolling Eyes

by Guest Fri May 04, 2012 7:20 am

Nice,

Villiers. The gift that keeps on giving.

by eirebilly Fri May 04, 2012 7:25 am

Wasnt Alan Jones knighted?

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri May 04, 2012 8:40 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Wales are becoming more patient (probably something to do with having a Kiwi at the helm), but it's not the first thing that springs to mind with us.

Sorry far too many words Luckless..

by dallym Fri May 04, 2012 11:04 am

Four more years.

it can no longer be applied to New Zealand, so maybe we can attach it to the aussies? Eden Park was roaring with it at the end of the NZ/aus semi last year

by Mr Bounce Fri May 04, 2012 11:16 am

Is Italy's "Only Got Parisse"??? Wink

by dummy_half Fri May 04, 2012 3:36 pm

Australia: dummy runner obstruction
All Blacks: McCaw offside again
South Africa: Big bruising Boers
France: Baffling coaching decisions
England:inferior to 03
Wales: Coach, ladder, doh
Scotland: no backline moves
Ireland: Three initial nicknames
Argentina: Do not mess
Italy: Lacking halfback options

by gregortree Fri May 04, 2012 3:48 pm

England: grit, determination, cussedness

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun May 06, 2012 9:13 am

Scotland - Robinson, Townsend ,Morons !

by Morgannwg Sun May 06, 2012 1:08 pm

England - overhyped, overated and overcelebrating.

by gregortree Sun May 06, 2012 7:08 pm

Morgannwyg,
no need to bring Wales' characteristics into this.

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