England v Barbarians

With a few posts on the topic of the 40 man squad Lancaster will select next week I started to think about who might feature in the game against the Barbarians at the end of the month and maybe play themselves into the squad for the first test against the Boks.

So, given that the Premiership final is the same weekend, make an assumption about what teams will be playing on the Saturday and therefore what England squad you would select for the Sunday.



Quins v Tigers


Corbisero
Hartley
PDJ
Botha
Robson (Palmer might be playing that weekend if Stade claim 6th)
Dowson
Fearns
Morgan
Dickson
Farrell
Strettle
Barritt
Joseph
Ashton
Foden

Mullan
Lindsay
Garvey
Gibson
Spencer
Burns
May

They tend to give the semi- finalists a week off from the Barbarians game too I think. Taking the current top 4 teams out of the equation I would go with:

01. Alex Corbisiero
02. Lee Mears
03. David Wilson
04. Matt Garvey
05. Dave Attwood
06. Carl Fearns
07. Jamie Gibson
08. Ben Morgan (Will be available?)

09. Paul Hodgson
10. Freddie Burns

11. Christian Wade
12. James Fitzpatrick
13. Henry Trinder
14. Jonny May
15. Rob Miller

16. Tom Lindsay
17. Henry Thomas
18. Matt Mullan
19. James Gaskell
20. Dom Waldouck
21. Jon Joseph
22. Tom Homer

The semis are 2 weeks before that weekend, so I imagine they'll go for as full strength a side as possible as it's the only warm up before the first test.

What's the deal with Trinder at the moment, is he injured again? He hasn't played for Gloucester in the last month.

What are the Bath fans opinion of how Wilson has been playing? The few games of his I've seen this year it seems he's been having a pretty average season.

timhen wrote: The semis are 2 weeks before that weekend, so I imagine they'll go for as full strength a side as possible as it's the only warm up before the first test.

What's the deal with Trinder at the moment, is he injured again? He hasn't played for Gloucester in the last month.

What are the Bath fans opinion of how Wilson has been playing? The few games of his I've seen this year it seems he's been having a pretty average season.

Perhaps you are right, but my hazy memory seems to recall it not working out that way last year.

It won't happen, but for the hell of it I'm going to imagine the less expected final.

Corbisero
Lindsay
Cole
Parling
Garvey
Robshaw
Fearns
Morgan
Youngs
Flood
May
Twelvetrees
Tuilagi
Wade
Brown

Marler, Mears (so many injured in this position), Attwood, Gibson, Care, Burns, Joseph

That would be a tough one - on the basis that no players will be available from the playoffs - ruling out Quins/Tigers/Sarries/Northampton. (at present)

Here it goes for the BaaBaas game -

01. Alex Corbisiero
02. Lee Mears
03. Rupert Harden
04. Matt Garvey
05. Dave Attwood
06. Carl Fearns
07. Jamie Gibson
08. Ben Morgan
09. Hayden Thomas
10. Freddie Burns
11. Charlie Sharples
12. J.Joseph
13. Henry Trinder
14. Jonny May
15. Rob Miller

16. Tom Lindsay
17. Henry Thomas
18. Matt Mullan
19. Kitchener
20. Paul Hodgeson
21. Wade
22. Tom Homer.

Cumbrian wrote:
Perhaps you are right, but my hazy memory seems to recall it not working out that way last year.

It's been swapped round this year. The European Finals are before the Premiership Final, so there's a two week gap.

Haydn Thomas is a great shout.

No Dave Seymour? Bit harsh, he's been a nightmare at the breakdown for Sale this season. Please no Gaskell he has been lightweight for Sale all season.

propdavid_london wrote:That would be a tough one - on the basis that no players will be available from the playoffs - ruling out Quins/Tigers/Sarries/Northampton. (at present)

Here it goes for the BaaBaas game -

01. Alex Corbisiero
02. Lee Mears
03. Rupert Harden
04. Matt Garvey
05. Dave Attwood
06. Carl Fearns
07. Jamie Gibson
08. Ben Morgan
09. Hayden Thomas
10. Freddie Burns
11. Charlie Sharples
12. J.Joseph
13. Henry Trinder
14. Jonny May
15. Rob Miller

16. Tom Lindsay
17. Henry Thomas
18. Matt Mullan
19. Kitchener
20. Paul Hodgeson
21. Wade
22. Tom Homer.

On the whole I like this team David, although I think someone said Sharples was on the injury list. Also, it might suffer a bit from a line-out perspective, with only Gibson the athletic one of the monsters in the pack. To alleviate that I think i'd put Kitchener in at 05. Although he may be used by Tigers in which case i'd go for Hanks.

With Wade to start in place of Sharples and Benjamin filling his place on the bench, I think i'd be happy to give that lot a go. Although i'd have Joseph at 13 and Trinder on the bench instead of Homer with Allen coming in to start at 12.

That would give us:

01. Alex Corbisiero
02. Lee Mears
03. Rupert Harden
04. Matt Garvey
05. James Hanks
06. Carl Fearns
07. Jamie Gibson
08. Ben Morgan
09. Hayden Thomas
10. Freddie Burns
11. Christian Wade
12. Anthony Allen
13. Jonathan Joseph
14. Jonny May
15. Rob Miller

16. Tom Lindsay
17. Matt Mullan
18. Dave Attwood
19. Tom Johnson
20. Spencer
21. Miles Benjamin
22. Henry Trinder

I also included Spencer on the bench, and swapped Thomas for a Tom Johnson as Morgan will need to be subbed I suspect.

I agree about Gaskell - just seems a bit underpowered, not good especially in a 2nd row/backrow position.

Chjw - Yes, think you are right about Sharples. But isnt Wade on the injury list too thinking about it!
Agree with Kitchener coming in as he does tend to fill a bench role for Tigers.
Allen and Joseph would be a good combination, but I'm fairly sure that Allen will feature heavily in any Tigers playoff game. He's not likely to be an option for SL.
Homer was on the bench as a reliable kicking alternative to Burns.

Benjamin coming in is a good shout - forgot about him.

Gaskell was woeful when I saw him for the Saxons, he's just not got the presence yet.

timhen wrote:
What's the deal with Trinder at the moment, is he injured again? He hasn't played for Gloucester in the last month.

Yep, he picked up an injury after returning from a broken jaw. He may be fit in time for the game, but I'd think it would be better to go with another OC for this game.

Tigers and Quins to make the final, so...

01. Corbisiero
02. Hartley
03. Doran-Jones
04. Garvey
05. Botha
06. Dowson
07. Fearns
08. Morgan
09. Dickson
10. Farrell
11. Wade
12. Barritt
13. Joseph
14. Ashton
15. Foden

16. Mullan
17. Lindsay
18. Attwood
19. Gibson
20. Spencer
21. Burns
22. May

Wade has been back for a fair bit I think, he scored against us and was plying against Bath

johnpartle wrote:Tigers and Quins to make the final, so...
...
05. Robson
...

Are you party to some transfer news that I don't know about (and don't want to know about), or do you need a different 5?

thomh wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:
Perhaps you are right, but my hazy memory seems to recall it not working out that way last year.

It's been swapped round this year. The European Finals are before the Premiership Final, so there's a two week gap.

Fair enough.

I didn't realise Trinder had been out injured, I'd start Joseph then.

Anyone know who has signed on for the Baabaa's this year?
I heard Balshaw was again, and Steven Jones is a possible.
Who else?

Poorfour wrote:

johnpartle wrote:Tigers and Quins to make the final, so...
...
05. Robson
...

Are you party to some transfer news that I don't know about (and don't want to know about), or do you need a different 5?

Oops, quite right Poorfour, have corrected.

Garvey has lead the lineout on more than a few occasions when Kennedy has been out hasn't he?

An interesting subplot of the game against the Barbarians is that they will be coached by the man the selection panel said wasn't experienced enough to take the England reins, John Kirwan.


Don't think there is a final squad yet, but the tour is meant to include (club duties may prevent some):

Joe Rokocoko
George Smith
Juan-Manuel Leguizamon
Cedric Heymans
Maxime Mermoz
Lionel Nallet
Jerome Thion
Johann Muller
John Afoa
Ruan Pienaar
Brad Thorn
Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu
Akapusi Qera
Stephen Donald
Andrew Sheridan
Ian Balshaw
Mike Tindall
Dwayne Peel
Stephen Jones
Shane Williams
John Beattie

Lewis Moody is supposedly still going to play some part as well???????

Is George Smith playing 12?

That's a pretty formidable squad actually

That looks like a Barbarian squad that will prefer physicality to flair. Could be good preperation for SA.

Balshaw/Heymans
Rokocoko
Tindall
Fuimaono-Sapolu/Smith
Mermoz/Williams
Donald/Pienaar/Jones
Pienaar/Peel

Sheridan

Afoa
Muller/Nallet
Thorn/Thion
Smith/Leguizamon
Qera/Moody
Beattie/Leguizamon

Good challenge. Unless they don't pick a Hooker. That would make the match easier

Lewis Moody is supposedly still going to play some part as well???????

Water boy. Will be replaced on 45 mins due to a shoulder injury.

Hope Mad Dog is given the reception he deserves, a great player and servant to England.

I know some players may not be able to play due to the Play-offs but I would quite like to see the following team;

Mullen
Jamie George
PDJ

Garvey
Attwood

Luke Wallace
Ben Morgan
Carl Ferns

Danny Care
Freddy Burns

Allen
Joseph

Wade
May
Rob Miller

Everyone in the team above should have something to prove...

Wallace might be available if we take Guest to the AP Final. Danny will be busy getting his winner's medal

knock on wood

Ah, shoot, I injured him again

Don't you mean knock-on Botha?... Oh i see...

ChequeredJersey wrote:Balshaw/Heymans
Rokocoko
Tindall
Fuimaono-Sapolu/Smith
Mermoz/Williams
Donald/Pienaar/Jones
Pienaar/Peel

Sheridan

Afoa
Muller/Nallet
Thorn/Thion
Smith/Leguizamon
Qera/Moody
Beattie/Leguizamon

Good challenge. Unless they don't pick a Hooker. That would make the match easier

Your as bad as Mike Chieka !!! Smith is an openside flank who can play 8 or 6, infact he is the second best openside flanker ever to have walked god's green earth (IMO anway) why is he now a centre...madness i tell ye....did we see Os du Randt one of the best props on the planet starting at wing in his last years...nor jason robinson scrumming down at lock...i don't know what coaches in france drink before making selections but it sure aint water.

It worked for Cheika

When is Hartley due back from his ban? If he doesn't feature again for Northampton, he could probably do with a tune-up before going down to South Africa.

Not sure how this will pan out with injuries/club commitments, but this is the team I'd like to get out:

1. Marler
2. Hartley (C)
3. Doran-Jones
4. Garvey
5. Attwood
6. Fearns
7. Armitage
8. Morgan

9. Simpson
10. Burns
11. May
12. Turner-Hall
13. Joseph
14. Wade
15. Brown

16. George
17. Mullan
18. Robson
19. Gibson
20. Spencer
21. Ford
22. Lowe

A lot of Quins in there, but they've had a good season based on young English talent, so that's to be expected. If they make the final obviously a couple of tweaks will have to be made.

Armitage is one I'd definitely liked to see involved in a match like this, but he's almost certain to be unavailable. It's hard to pick a team for a months time when so many other things could be going on, but that would be my preferred 22 for a Barbarians match, with others coming in to fill the gaps as necessary.

Really want to see Garvey start. Lets see what the boy can do.

1 Corbs / Mullan
2 Hartley (Banned from club games)
3 Henry Thomas
4 Garvey
5 Attwood
6 Fearns
7 Kvesic
8 Morgan

9 Simpson
10 Burns
11 Wade
12 Fitzpatrick
13 JJ
14 Benjamin
15 May

Hartley is banned until 13th May.

I thought he could still play internationl games though.

Simpson is injured.

Aw i give up....

Sometimes Geordie its just not easy...

Considering that England definitely won't be able to pick any of the players from Quins, Leicester, Saracens and Northampton. Whilst it is also important to note that I doubt England will pick any players who would normally make the England match day squad, as it is an uncapped game, and if England lose then the coaches/players won't take any flak as we would have fielded an inexperienced team.

Therefore I feel it would be a perfect opportunity to start young players who are on the cusp of the squad and have made a big impression this season due to form.

I'm guessing the England coaches would pick something like this...

15. Miller (Sale)
14. Wade (Wasps)
13. Joseph (Irish)
12. Banahan (Bath)
11. Benjamin (Leicester)
10. Burns (Gloucester)
09. Thomas (Exeter)
08. Fearns (Bath)
07. Seymour (Sale)
06. Johnson (Exeter)
05. Garvey (Irish)
04. Attwood (Bath)
03. Harden (Gloucester)
02. Lindsay (Wasps)
01. Mullan (Worcester)

16. Thomas (Sale)
17. Paice (Irish)
18. Launchberry (Wasps)
19. Gibson (Irish)
20. Hodgson (Worcester)
21. Cipriani (Sale)
22. May (Gloucester)

With the likes of Max Lahiff, Nathan Catt, James Gaskell, Kearnan Myall, Jake Abbott, Tom Homer, Dom Waldouck, Topsy Ojo and Nick Abendanon all in the squad.

You know Robshaw thats a pretty intelligent selection.

The only one i question is banahan. And yes im biased but James Fitzpatrick is a far better 12 than him...

Sometimes Geordie its just not easy...

Your right mate...

If Hartley's ban is up on the 13th he can play against the Barbarians (27th May). In which case he'll need a run-out before the test series, so if Saints aren't in the final then Hartley should play against the Barbarians.

I hope Ashton doesn't make the team, he has been cack for over a season now and other players who have had one or two bad games have been abandoned by England. The fact that some fans can berate the likes of Banahan and Monye whilst Ashton's wasting a position is laughable. In my opinion JSD is worth another look and Monye also (if not this game due to aviva commitments then on the tour). However, Wade needs to start if available and there are going to be a few other young wingers I'm yet to see play.

I agree...i think Wade and May both offer so much more at the moment than Asthon.

Add in Benjamin and thats three options over Ashton who just doesnt look interested.

PS if i was a winger....i dont think id be itching to get to Sarries...

robshaw4england wrote:Considering that England definitely won't be able to pick any of the players from Quins, Leicester, Saracens and Northampton. Whilst it is also important to note that I doubt England will pick any players who would normally make the England match day squad, as it is an uncapped game, and if England lose then the coaches/players won't take any flak as we would have fielded an inexperienced team.

They'll only not be able to select players from the 2 teams that make the final. The playoffs are 2 weeks prior on 12th May.

With the first test on 9th June and no warm up game in SA, I very seriously doubt Lancaster will want a large number of the players to have gone a month without any competitive rugby. I think he'll use the Barbarians game as a warm up and pick a squad that's pretty close to his test side, minus the absentees obviously.

Who isn't a better 12