Ben Morgan looks out injured, Lancaster has to pick Easter?

Have just seen Morgan being helped off the park for Scarlets. Very sad for him as not the way hed have wanted to finish his time in Wales, and ofcourse on first viewing theres the very real chance he wont now tour in June. Thats two of our 6 Nations back row out, so who should get the call instead?

Easter
Haskell
Vunipola
?

Lets just hope its not serious for Morgan.

They seem to be dropping like flies this time of year.

I will say now though...anyone but Easter.

Haskellllll

Did Flood go off today for Leicester aswell...

Easter with Fearns back up...

Haskell if he is available....

Poor Haskell would not have had a break from high level rugby for like 18 months if he lasts the tour.

I don't think SL will pick Easter. I think he made the point of cutting the old guard of those who he felt were messing up the morale of the squad and come hell or high water I don't think Easter or Tindall would get picked now, same would have gone for Moody if he hadn't quit and his body was still somehow in one piece.

Can see Waldrom starting the tests if Morgan is actually out.

Morgannwg wrote:Poor Haskell would not have had a break from high level rugby for like 18 months if he lasts the tour.

It's actually no more than the rest of the England squad at the moment but it will be when the English season finishes and the S15 continues on, especially with the Highlanders going well (although he's on a self enforced 'punching' break for a few weeks at the moment). He maybe played a few more games in the French league in the run up to the WC.

For me its Easter and Vunipola, wealth of experience with a final opportunity to represent England abroad after the disappointment of the WC, combined with the huge exuberance of youth. For the next WC cycle I think the 8 jersey will be between Morgan and Vunipola.

It is hard to see Easter going as Lancaster was pretty definitive in dropping him. it would appear to confirm Dowson's spot on the tour and based on 6N squads you should also expect Waldrom to travel.

Right now Vunipola is severely over-hyped. His achievements have been minimal and whiel he was out injured he appears to have attended the Andy Goode East All You Can Diner. He looks fat and unfit.

Poor show LT, you obviously wernt watching yesterdays game.

I can't see anything about Morgan's injury on the web, hopefully it won't be that bad. If he is out we are starting to look proper boned.

Vunipola can't even get into the U20's side at the moment, I'd be shocked if he got called up to the senior side. To be fair to him though he looked to me like he'd slimmed down, going on what I saw in the game yesterday.

So the options as I see it:

The most likely...

Thomas Waldrom Most likely option to my mind
James Haskell Probably won't be available?
Carl Fearns Still not getting any game time at no.8
Tom Guest Has his time come?
Nick Easter People might not like it, but he is playing well and we have lost a lot from the back-row already.

A bit of a punt...
Jackson Wray He's had some decent game time this season.
Alex Gray Unlikely as isn't starting for Irish, but stranger things have happened, might be useful experience to go along as a reserve.
Jamie Gibson- plays all over the back row and people have been suggesting he goes on tour, but it seems unlikely to me.

Luke Narraway and Phil Dowson go into the most likely section too.

kingelderfield wrote:Poor show LT, you obviously wernt watching yesterdays game.

I was at Welford Road - so no did not see Vunipola.

There is a break in the S15 for the three weekends where there are tests. Haskell is a real option, especially as he's coming back next year. If Morgan is out, Waldrom will probably start, but with all the injuries I'd definitely call up Haskell.

Back row is increasingly becoming an issue....

And we still have matches left for more injuries.

Vuinipola is a mess, he's nowhere near International standard. Needs to trim down, get fit and stop thinking he's a hard man.

And when you consider the Boks will have something like (they have some serious options!)

6 Brussow
7 Alberts
8 Spies

it is a big concern....

I think we can still put a decent back-row out:

06. Carl Fearns
07. Chris Robshaw
08. James Haskell

or

06. Chris Robshaw
07. Steffon Armitage
08. Thomas Waldrom

Throw in a couple of youngsters like Jamie Gibson and Jack Wallace. I know it's a tough place to go, but these guys are going to have to learn at some point.

Isn't Jack Wallace a FB?

I doubt Morgan is injured personally but agree options are limited after him. I'd definatley have Waldroum involved and Armitage/Haskell deserve to be there abouts.

Feck I meant Luke Wallace.

Jack Walkace can't be any worse a carrier than Dowson to be fair.

Poor lad. Has been a real star at the Scarlets. I think everyone feels a sense of pride in how Wales has seen such a big part in his development and realisation of his dreams to play for England.

Shame to see him leave but wish him well for the future.

id pick haskell anyway

I dont think that Lancaster will pick Easter to be honest.
If anyone it will probably Waldrum who replaces Morgan.

Carl fearns does not get game time at 8 for bath and has done nothing special so far this season.

Billy vunipola has potential but is by no means international standard yet..he should be no where near the squad.

Thomas Waldrom has talent but i would be so embarrassed playing him against saffas that know him as a wannabe all black from the Super 15

Phil dowson was completely ineffective during the SN.

Now add to all this that the saffas have one of the most physical, abrasive and talented backrows in the world and things are not looking great. We can't just blood unproven youngsters... IMO armitage has to be in the squad due to injuries to wood and croft but even this is a BIG risk... We have to play haskell and or Easter. Easter is still performing week in and week out for harlequins and is still the best english 8 in the premiership, he also has a wealth of experience at international level. Its all very well developing a team but we need to win FIRST, the saffas are bringing matfield back we need easter we have inexperienced internationals all over the park (barrit, farrell, Parling, allen and whoever else ).

Morgan's look pretty injured yesterday on the pitch and was heavily limping when he came off helped by 2 physios but he did come on later for the player presentations with lots of ice strapped to his thigh.

Didn't look too good for England though

I should note though I hope he's ok and wish him all the best

sirtidychris wrote:Carl fearns does not get game time at 8 for bath and has done nothing special so far this season.

Billy vunipola has potential but is by no means international standard yet..he should be no where near the squad.

Thomas Waldrom has talent but i would be so embarrassed playing him against saffas that know him as a wannabe all black from the Super 15

Phil dowson was completely ineffective during the SN.

Now add to all this that the saffas have one of the most physical, abrasive and talented backrows in the world and things are not looking great. We can't just blood unproven youngsters... IMO armitage has to be in the squad due to injuries to wood and croft but even this is a BIG risk... We have to play haskell and or Easter. Easter is still performing week in and week out for harlequins and is still the best english 8 in the premiership, he also has a wealth of experience at international level. Its all very well developing a team but we need to win FIRST, the saffas are bringing matfield back we need easter we have inexperienced internationals all over the park (barrit, farrell, Parling, allen and whoever else ).

I think it would be a bit of assumption to believe that Haskell will be available for the tour, he wasn't available for the Six Nations after all. I have a hunch that Easter will be recalled if Morgan is injured, he and Waldrom may be the immediate patch up job. Dowson's place is probably cemented because of the injuries.

It's bad when you consider every single flanker we took to the World Cup six months ago is retired, out injured or playing rugby on the other side of the world, only two flankers from the last Six Nations are left standing... This is going to be a punishing five match tour, if Haskell isn't available we are going to HAVE to blood at least one new flanker I think.

Carl Fearns may not be playing at no.8, but he was playing very well before his injury and has got back up to speed quickly. He can competently cover all three back-row positions, he hasn't played over much rugby and so will not suffer burn-out. To me he is the perfect candidate to go on the tour.

Mind you, all this is assuming that there are no more injuries either. This is England remember... Steffon Armitage in the form of his life begging to be called up, a position potentially opening up... that will be an ACL injury then eh?

Its time to unleash Joe Robinson marra!!!

You get the raw meat, I'll get the key to the padlock...

Cumbrian wrote:You get the raw meat, I'll get the key to the padlock...

http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/story/163758.html

Disappointing if he is out. He really is the stand-out choice at No.8 for England. If he's fit I'd go:

6. Haskell
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan

which still looks a solid international back row, even without the injured duo of Croft and Wood (who would start 6 and 7 for me if fit).

If Morgan is out we start to look a bit short of class. I haven't seen much of Steffon Armitage at Toulon but by all accounts he has improved so under the current circumstances I'd give him another shot, despite being thoroughly underwhelmed during his first incarnation as an international player. I'd look at possibly:

6. Robshaw
7. Armitage
8. Haskell

which is clearly a risky choice given each component currently plys his trade in a different corner of the earth and will not really know the ins and outs of one another's game.

This is all assuming Haskell and Armitage are available. If not then we're well and truly up a creek. Tom Johnson at Exeter has been impressive but it's a big step up. Easter and Waldrom would represent unpalatable regression. Narraway could be an option given his EPS involvement this season but he's been part of a shocking end of season for glaws and is off to France this summer anyway. Launchbury, Wallace and Nutley are potential future stars but it may be a bit early to tackle the giant 'boks back row, we wouldn't want to damage these guys' before their careers have even got going.

Any news on what Morgans injury was? Looked like an ACL injury.

calf strain according to ESPN

maestegmafia wrote:Any news on what Morgans injury was? Looked like an ACL injury.

maestegmafia

unless you are medically qualified and have some particular insight to offer i suggest that you desist from making this kind of unhelpful highly speculative comment about England players particularly when those comments fly in the face of all of the available reports.

thanks for your concern though

Triangulation wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Any news on what Morgans injury was? Looked like an ACL injury.

maestegmafia

unless you are medically qualified and have some particular insight to offer i suggest that you desist from making this kind of unhelpful highly speculative comment about England players particularly when those comments fly in the face of all of the available reports.

thanks for your concern though

Well I had an ACL injury from playing squash a long time a go.. And I walked like Morgan did when he limped off PYS.

He was rewarded with a massive round of applause, much deserved, he has been a great servant to the region, he is a very popular player with fans of Scarlets and the other regions. Sad way to see a good man play his last game for a club he has been such a big part of, and one that has made him the man he is in return.

Anyhow it appears it is a possible torn Hamstring rather than ACL.

Never done that personally, but looks very painful.

p://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/story/163758.html

I know that this probably isn't the best source, but according to his twitter account, he is arranging a pool game with some mates- hardly what someone with a torn ACL would be doing! I think it's a hamstring or calf strain.

Apologies for quoting twitter as a source.

bluestonevedder wrote:I know that this probably isn't the best source, but according to his twitter account, he is arranging a pool game with some mates- hardly what someone with a torn ACL would be doing! I think it's a hamstring or calf strain.

Apologies for quoting twitter as a source.

p://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/story/163758.html

Link above says Hamstring

Seen that, thanks maestegmafia, was referencing to damage_13 who said that ESPN were reporting it as a calf strain.

Which ever it is, it's surely a lot better than any ACL problem.

bluestonevedder wrote:Seen that, thanks maestegmafia, was referencing to damage_13 who said that ESPN were reporting it as a calf strain.

Which ever it is, it's surely a lot better than any ACL problem.

God yes...

Although ACL damage varies a great deal...! I was very lucky with mine... Hamstrings and Calf strains can be equally lengthy recoveries though...

I am sure all will reveal itself over the coming weeks post scans etc...

ACl is horrible..i did mine along with the lateral and medial meniscus....not pleasant....

Hopefully he is ok...BUT if not...for me....

6 Robshaw
7 Armitage
8 Easter (Fearns on the Bench to come on)

Offers pace, power, relentless energy and a little experience. And All three are on form....

GeordieFalcon wrote:ACl is horrible..i did mine along with the lateral and medial meniscus....not pleasant....

Hopefully he is ok...BUT if not...for me....

6 Robshaw
7 Armitage
8 Easter (Fearns on the Bench to come on)

Offers pace, power, relentless energy and a little experience. And All three are on form....

Geordie it appears its a hamstring injury so not so bad... Steffan Armitage is a good call. Looks to have improved immeasurably in the Top 14.

Maesteg,

I have always been a fan of Steffon...and am one of those who says he wasnt given a chance and when he did get the odd game oif the bench it was for a ramshackle side that had no guidance.

Some say that he stuck two fingers up to the England team when he left for france knowing the rules...but he wasnt in the team anyway and Johnson seemed pretty intent on not playing him...so i dont blame him for going.

Now with Lancaster having a sound vision, Rowntree in command of the forwards....i think he would excell.....

Imagine him feeding off Morgans runs...and his ground work would be huge against the likes of Brussow...

Steffon has played well in a usually dominant Toulon pack. I have major reservations about him as an international player though.

His ground work is ok, he carries quite well against the backs but often gets dominated by bigger forwards (Boks!!!).

Playing for England he won't be constantly on the front foot and will have to dig in, I'm unsure he has the quality.

I do agree he is worth a shot but I don't expect him to shine. Sorry GF

I'd take Armitage and Haskell. I guess we'll have to hope for Toulon to go out in the quarters so we can get our hands on Armitage earlier (would they release him though?).

Armitage is in the form of his life and with Croft, Wood and possibly Morgan out injured he'll never get a better shot at International rugby. He may flop, but if he does then at least we'll know. But if he succeeds then we've got a serious option at 7 and hopefully a series win. As GF said, Robshaw, Armitage and Morgan has a decent balance to it.

Haskell would go for me because he's back in England next year and can fulfil the Dowson role (covers 6, 7 and 8) and is not only a better player, but also simultaneously younger and more internationally experienced.

England's tests against South Africa are on the 9th, 16th and 23rd of June. Haskell's got a game with the Highlanders on the 1st June and then not until the 29th June, so would in theory be available for all three of the tests. The Top 14 play-offs are on the 26th May, 2nd and 9th June, so if Toulon get to the final Armitage won't be available until the second test.

It's a shame that, despite pledging to bring back "proper" tours, the IRB have only provided a two-week international window. Still, I suppose this is why the RFU are desperate to keep English players playing in England. Either way, I'd probably parachute Armitage straight into the starting line-up as soon as he lands.

Sgt Pooly,

He deserves one good crack at the whip though. Give him some genuine gametime...not five mins here and there...

IF he is proven to be not good enough...i hold my hands up and say at least he was given a shot...and now we can look at others like Kvesic, Wallace etc.

What though if that small % of a chance that he plays absolutely sublime and shows that he is made for international rugby...?

At least one way or another we would know.

Oh, and if we're talking about Ben Morgan's Twitter as well, he had arranged to play golf the other day, so his injury can't be too serious.

Armitage probably does deserve a shot although I think he's been massivley over hyped since his move.

If he proves me wrong (it has been known on a daily basis) I will get the round in at Kingston GF