Have the British Olympians been let down ????

Saunders, Gavin and Degale have achieved something very few Boxers this side of the great lake have ever achieved......Reaching the pinnacle of the Amateur game and becoming successful OLYMPIANS!!

Forget Audley and the super-heavies...these days the average 250 pound rolled drunk can win that medal....

But these guys had a succesful legacy before turning pro!!!

WHERE ARE THEY????......Sure Degale lost a contentious decision and Gavin seems to have lost interest probably due to being third billing....as for Saunders well things haven't been Absolutely fabulous for him either!!

For me these guys deserve better......They shouild've been the future and now they are forgotten men....and you have to ask If they have been brought on properly???

Third billings in front of empty crowds is bound to lead to lethargy and poor performances after your first few starts!!

I mean we had nine gold medallists in 84......and Tillman aside most of them got big cable exposure and were brought on to be big names!!!

Sorry to see these guys struggling so much.......They've accomplished a great feat for their Country and to me the exposure has just not been there!!!....

Personality traits aside...these kids deserve better for me!!

Been letdown??? I reckon they have.....Probably because too many chefs spoil the brew!!

Not sure they have been let down, but think in some instances they have let themselves down. Gavin clearly has issues with his self discipline, the most caring or nurturing of promoters or managers can only do so much with a guy like that eventually he has to decide to knuckle down and dedicate himself, thus far he appears not to have done so.

Degale similarly has had opportunities, has already been on PPV, no mean feat before a world title has even been contested for, but he again has let himself down, has not particularly come across well in the press and has been consistently pretty hard to warm to. Not sure Warren has done a lot wrong by any of them, think he perhaps has more right to feel aggreived than they do.

Gavin was never an olympian truss, he couldn't make the weight for this olympic division so got dropped. He has caused the problems himself, was due to headline a show last year but went AWOL a few days before.

Degale again caused his own problems with his attitude before the Groves fight, Warren has looked after him well getting him a british title and then the euro belt.

Saunders has had problems with injuries which is really holding back his career, I believe he has very brittle hands however has just won the Commenwealth belt so hopefully that will open a few doors for him.

Gavin was an Olympian in the fact he was picked for the team...

my point is that after the prior excitement of turning pro!!! Degale aside maybe.....being third or fourth billing and fighting in front of a few people is bound to depress and lend itself to mediocrity...

Think having a promoter with too many other investments hasn't helped....

Also think as Olympians they deserve more exposure than they got/ or are getting!!!

But there you go..

Sure Boxers do self-destruct.. and that's why they need attention and motivation!!

Hard to see how they'd have any grounds to feel let down, Truss. My only slight quibble with Warren's handling of the names you've mentioned is that they should have fought more regularly since turning professional, but as others have alluded to, the men in question have to accept some culpability there, too - particularly Gavin, whose lack of discipline is quickly making him the most frustrating fighter in the British Isles.

Regardless of amateur / Olympic pedigree, I always think that novice professionals should be learning their trade on smaller shows and undercards. Unfortunately, a pattern has been set whereby the public seemingly demand that people with such an amateur background are immediately sprung towards superstardom and huge exposure straight away. So far, none of these lads have done anything between the ropes which warrants either of these. I'd understand your argument a little more if the fighters in question were putting on a string of exemplary performances against highly-ranked opposition, but so far they aren't.

For what their professional exploits actually merit, I'd say the lot of them have probably punched above their weight for exposure so far.

Thing is truss it is a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. The nature of the beast is in your early days as a pro you will be fighting a fair few journeymen and limited guys. You only have to look at Audley Harrison to see the problem and reactions putting such fights as main events can garner, he got dogs abuse from pretty much all quarters for doing this. Given this we can hardly then criticise Warren when he puts such fights on undercards.

Audley was a one off.....Eventhe old BBc Boxing guy said they messed up big style with Audley...

Much truth in what you say though Rowley..

ps....I cannot believe so many 606ers on here are salivating at the thought of Chisora v Haye.......

There is no prize for the winner and they both stink....

Suspect it is a thread for another day Truss but got to say I am in agreement, can't believe how many people have no issue with how the fight has come about. For me it is an average match up put together in ridiculously underhand fashion, but maybe we're just getting old Truss.

You can say techincally Gavin was an Olympian but never actually fought at the Olympics?

As other have alluded to, don't think Warren has done too much wrong. Maybe he could have told DeGale to tone it down a bit but he obviously had the belief that DeGale was going to spank Groves everywhere and become one of those boxers that people want to watch to get beat. That backfired!

Gavin has so much ability but am not sure he has the love for the sport anymore, which is what you need to get out of bed at 5am and train! I couldn't believe how bad he was against the limited Woodhouse (Woodman), and how often he got tagged. Am not sure how effective he will be at Welter but he does need to sort his head out, knuckle down and start to show the boxing world his true potential.

Saunders has been unlucky with injuries but he is making up for lost time now. He has a bit of snap in his punches and he puts them to together very well. Had a little trouble with Boulden but with 2 1st round stoppages on the bounce, my money would definately be on a 3rd against the chinny Pryce.

What are Gavin's problems outside the ring? I see it mentioned a lot, but no specifics. Drink, drugs, gambling, women, all of the above?

I read that Gavins kid turned out not to be his biologically or something along those lines, and that he was struggling for motivation as a result.

yeah found out 2-3 years etc. But there was a little more to it I think.

It was Frank Warrens?

Aside from Gavin I for think warren has done anything wrong

Remember that before groves degale was making a name for himself. He wa son a couple of good bills and had taken paul smith apart. The groves fight was and set him back a bit. Degale is now European champion and is close to a world title shot with less than 15 fights. Not bad imo

Saunders started off well but his hands didn't hold up and got set back a bit. He's fighting more often these days and is looking the business and is on a collision course for the British belt.

Frankie Gavin has had problems outside the ring and isn't an Olympian. It's not warrens fault that he can't get his career on track. It stretches back to his amateur days when he couldn't make weight and was ill disciplined. Looks like his pro career might be similar, he isn't a welterweight

Gavin has been suffering form depression. The stories about his kid were supposedly true. Saunders has had injuries which has held him back. As for DeGale he should feel aggrieved with frank. The fight with Sanavia was a joke the guy is an Olympic gold medalist. DeGale was never a fan of being on Boxnation.

As for DeGales attitude being a problem that is pure garbage. Most boxers are planks when a camera is put in front of them. A lot of people for some strange reason think Carl Froch is a nice guy but look what that has done for him. Most people don't even know who the guy is.

Only by themselves Truss- they all signed for Warren with their eyes open knowing that he would over protect them, match them with nobodies, leading to a WBO title, with defences against nobodies whilst constantly calling out the main men, with whom Warren has no intention of matching them. If they wanted legacies and lasting recognition they could and should have signed with someone that followed the old school route-area to british to commonwealth to european to world title- like Lewis and Honeyghan did-becoming undisputed champions rather than belt holders, instead they went to the man who offered the most cash.

Give over Truss, its reasons like this article as to why you're on my foes list.

I had to log in to avoid seeing any more claptrap.

Let down? I think you're sensationalising the situation. Firstly, Degale has had 13 fights and is already European Champion after holding the British Title after 9 fights. Thats 9 fights Truss. I thinK Degale has been guided almost perfectly. He's been tried at domestic level to which he was superior to all but his rival and now he's got his head down, grinding out some wins to pad out his experience before coming back at World Level. He's not even had 20 fights yet so I don't know what you're on about.

Gavin has had 10 fights and has won them all. He may have been beating domestics but he's done well. His current situation is out of the control of anyone. He's quite the prospect, and after his depression - should he see the other side of it, he'll resume a very good looking career. He's got talent that lad and just because he's not won a world title yet or isn't American this doesn't give you any right to somehow pour any scorn on him.

Saunders - I don't know much about him but I do know he's knocking people out for fun. he's had less than 15 fights. How is this letting him down? By the time he's at 20 fights he'll be fighting for World Titles.

How are you rating these people? Between the three of them they have one loss, and thats a contentious one against another fighter who is also well managed.

I hate Frank Warren but what he's doing is exceptional for the early careers of these three.

I think it's a simple case of a lot of amateurs don't make it in the pro ranks. Apart from teaching the rudiments of boxing the amateurs do not prepare fighters for the PAIIIINNNNN that they get from being a pro! Look at big Aud. When he's in the ring the big man is scared stiff of the prospect of being hit without his headguard on.

There's also the issue of the fitness aspect. 3/4 rounds over 10/12 a lot of these guys can't and don;t want to put their bodies through all that. It's why I don;t rate the Cuban former amateurs as highly and think the likes of Teofilo Stephenson and Felix Savon would have got spanked off the likes of the great American heavies of the time. A lot of the Cuban amateurs no who have gone to pro have been pish, Gomez, Solis, what a pair of fat lazy bestheads.

Casamayor, Gamboa, Rigondeaux, Lara............

There is no excuse for top amateurs not to make it with the titles on offer these days...

Interesting question. I have often wondered what became of them. I think the standard of amateur boxing must have dropped greatly. How did somebody like Audley Harrison or Amir Khan win a gold medal if the standard in the amateurs was of a high class? Perhaps more prospects are going pro instead of staying in the amateurs these days, attracted by the lure of money? Lennox Lewis won a gold medal and went on to become one of the greatest of all time. It seems to have deteriorated substantially when Audley Harrison can win one. Makes me think most of the top boxers go pro and leave the amateur game to lesser fighters.

Some of you don't understand the difference between amateur and professional so let me educate the few.

Amateur - you rarely get hurt. You don't know how well you're doing as you can't feel or see that unless you have a calculator for a brain. The way to win is to hit the opponent more. It doesn't matter how you do it, you just need to hit them more than they hit you.

Professional - you get hurt a lot, punches hurt with no protection. You can see how well you're doing and you can feel how well you're doing. The way to win is to be more impressive or to knock the other person down. Hitting more sometimes gets the result, but they need to be meaningful punches.

Harrison/Khan were great amateurs because they utilized skills they had in the amateurs. Khan has fast hands and good footwork, and Audley had reach and the southpaw style. They could hit more often (Btw Khan got a silver medal Gordy)

There are excuses for the "top amateurs" Truss - the professional game is much harder. MUCH harder. And I'll say that Amir Khan is still a top quality boxer, involved in 2 contenders for FOTY so I don't know what you're talking about. He's an ex-world champion who delivers great fights at world level.

Don't talk about Harrison in the same sentence as Amir Khan if its detrimental.

Well you'd know wouldn't you kid..

No offence but I wouldn't try to patronise anybody If I was you with your history...

I've boxed and I didn't make it up...

run along..

I've boxed, the difference is I came here and told a silly lie. That doesn't detract from the fact I've actually boxed. I'd watch who you call a liar.

JM, Truss

This is not the first thread you have had a little bit of verbal sparring today, will avoid going all red pen but would ask you nicely to take things down a notch before things get out of hand, as it seems inevitable they will soon enough.

You disappointed me...

I never got to here how you got on when you arrived in America to spar with Khan....

I apologise Rowley but some people don't have any shame do they??? Especially when writing the piece they just have...

I'll cease and desist against the resident bully/WUM we all seem to tolerate because he knows about boxing before 1980.

In all fairness Rowley I appreciate the warning. Consider me well behaved from herein.

Very kind of you, but on a point of pedantry Truss' knowledge actually starts in 1980 and not a day before.

I apologise too...but will say that any fairminded poster will see I didn't start it!!

cheers..........Sorry I officially started in Nov 79....

Olympic boxing is a bit weird with me. The Olympics are basically professional now and comparing a boxing medal to say a sprinting medal or a long jump medal etc doesnt really mean the same because you are just nowhere near the best in the world.

Olympic gold medals also seem to have lost their professional value...

Whether that has to do with the decline of Boxing and not the medal

I'm not sure??

Don't think the computerised scoring system helps, it does not differentiate between power shots or jabs and does not tend to reward combination punching so think the style that succeeds in the amateur has much in common with the style likely to lead to success as a pro.

Very true........but I guess Jones and the Korean changed everything..

Probably for the worst..

Though Tate - O'sullivan..........wasn't much better!!

Super D Boon wrote:I think it's a simple case of a lot of amateurs don't make it in the pro ranks. Apart from teaching the rudiments of boxing the amateurs do not prepare fighters for the PAIIIINNNNN that they get from being a pro! Look at big Aud. When he's in the ring the big man is scared stiff of the prospect of being hit without his headguard on.

There's also the issue of the fitness aspect. 3/4 rounds over 10/12 a lot of these guys can't and don;t want to put their bodies through all that. It's why I don;t rate the Cuban former amateurs as highly and think the likes of Teofilo Stephenson and Felix Savon would have got spanked off the likes of the great American heavies of the time. A lot of the Cuban amateurs no who have gone to pro have been pish, Gomez, Solis, what a pair of fat lazy bestheads.

Its a bit of a mixed bag with Olympic success. I thik Stevenson and Savon would have had big potential (though no guarantee) of being very successful pros had they made the mover early. But I would tend to agree that the idea that were they to face established professionals while still amateurs later in their career they would in trouble, good as they were as amateurs. Think the idea of Stevenson beating Ali in the pro ranks in the 1970s is very unlikely. Even Savon who possibly surpassed him in terms of amateur success has lost to the likes of Chagaev. the amateur game has always been a big level below the pro one.