Ulster squad additions

First topic message reminder :

You did not imagine that - it was said. A few weeks ago too.

I have absolute faith that our current crop of backrowers will benefit immensely from Anscombe's arrival. Unless I am very wrong he's a backrow specialist isn't he?
Diack has had a great end to the season so for all we know he's been having a little injury niggle or personal problems that never ever, and never should be common knowledge. The softsaffer's getting harder again.
We do need a wrecking ball to add some meat to our regular Pro12 backrow and maybe we'll get lucky, maybe the Ulster way is condusive to backrowers performing well. I mean who here was overly excited when Pedrie was signed? If we'd known how he'd perform I reckon we'd have been a lot more enthusiastic from the start.

Anyways, fingers crossed we get an announcement sooner rather than later because I can't stand waiting.

I too am hearing NOC may be off - the sticking point appears to be length of contract - we only want to offer 1 year. Staunton appears to be back in the frame.

I would not agree Diack is on a substantial contract - a good one but not the money we are paying the likes of Cave, Court, Henry - more in the Stevenson bracket. It does run to 2014 though.

My view on the NIQ backrower is it should be a 6/7 (that would suit a Saffer where such players are common place) - lets face it Ferris will be lucky to play 10 games next year and come the Internationals we will be short on both flanks.

I have no reason to believe PJ will not play the JWC - in fact Kidney has hinted that he, not Madigan, is the emergency cover in case of injury to Sexton or ROG. That is a huge mistake in my view.

I think Staunton is a cert now. He looks to be struggling to find a club. We could probably get away with offering him minimum wage...

And meal tickets from the food 'village'.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0523/1224316551134.html

Explains a few things.
Mind you a couple of contradictions:

Humph requests PJ is withdrawn from the JWC at the same time Kidney says he is the All Black tour backup

Observation that NOC will sign just as rumours are seeping out of the club saying the signing may have gone pear shaped

Still worth a read though especilally re McGlaughlin

I think Staunton is a cert now. He looks to be struggling to find a club. We could probably get away with offering him minimum wage...

Has back issues according to a Chuter interview a couple of weeks ago.

so BML isnt even getting academy coach??

Brian McLaughlin is not expected to take charge of the Ulster Academy next season, but is to be given a coaching/recruitment position overseeing prospective professionals coming out of the schools system.

I must say, i can't really tell the difference.

logie28 wrote:Heard a few whispers that NOC deal isn't done, and could well not be happening. Cue much older, and probably better, Irish outhalf lined up instead.
And it could be PJ has summer off.......

That could be tricky, I'm sure I saw someone say that it was a done deal ("FACT")?!

I may be wrong (not often ) but as far as I know Gary Longwell is the head of the academy and is a full time employee. I'm sure there would be serious employment issues if McLaughlin was installed as "head"
But what's in a name eh?

ASBO what appears to be coming increasingly common place is a hand shake is done but then the player renages on the deal - Botha, Peel come to mind.

Some players even sign the contract and then renage on the deal - Rush

To be fair though Ulster have renaged on a deal themselves recently - Andress

Bit depressing a man is not as good as his word to be honest.

clivemcl wrote:

Brian McLaughlin is not expected to take charge of the Ulster Academy next season, but is to be given a coaching/recruitment position overseeing prospective professionals coming out of the schools system.

I must say, i can't really tell the difference.

This year Heineken Cup final, next year watching schools cup matches and writing down whose decent...

geoff998rugby wrote:ASBO what appears to be coming increasingly common place is a hand shake is done but then the player renages on the deal - Botha, Peel come to mind.

Some players even sign the contract and then renage on the deal - Rush

To be fair though Ulster have renaged on a deal themselves recently - Andress

Bit depressing a man is not as good as his word to be honest.

Was that pre his Wuss deal, geoff?

Yep

Last summer - we had Cory Jane and Andress lined up. Cory Jane could not make his mind up.

Ulster then realized they could get Payne as a Project player instead of Jane. This freed up a NIQ spot so they looked around for a TH and agreed with Afoa.

They then pulled the plug on the Andress deal. Some stories about him doing something out of order seeped out. Total hogwash - that was from 6/7 years ago. We pulled the plug because Payne and Afoa were better players.

To be honest Humphreys indignation about Botha was pretty hypocritical given he did the same to Andress.

logie28 wrote:Heard a few whispers that NOC deal isn't done, and could well not be happening. Cue much older, and probably better, Irish outhalf lined up instead.
.......

O'Gara? Grand job .

Just to change direction for a moment – I thought, given questions about squad depth, I would look at those who have left between Matt Williams’ departure (allegedly by text message) and Mark Anscombe (the less said about text messages the better). Our squad subtractions, if you like.

So, from just before Brian McLaughlin’s appointment to his departure, the following players have moved on/retired:


T.J. Anderson
Tim Barker
Isaac Boss
B.J. Botha
Ryan Caldwell
Jerry Cronin
Bryn Cunningham
Kieron Dawson
Rib Dewey
Simon Danielli
Willie Faloon
Justin Fitzpatrick
Tamaiti Horua
Ian Humphreys
Andy Kyriacou
Mark McCrea
Matt McCullough
David McIlwane
James McKinney (TBC?)
Timoci Nagusa
Niall O’Connor
Ed O’Donoghue
Stuart Philpott
David Pollock
Ian Porter (TBC?)
Tommy Seymour
Clinton Schifcofske
Paul Steinmetz
Jamie Smith
Pedrie Wannenberg
Cillian Willis
Ian Whitten
Bryan Young

Not including temporary players such as Terblanche and Emerick.

[ As an aside, that gives us a theoretical best team of:

1. Young
2. Kyriacou
3. Botha
4. Caldwell
5. McCullough
6. Anderson
7. Pollock
8. Wannenberg
9. Boss
10. Humphreys
11. Nagusa
12. Steinmetz
13. McCrea
14. Danielli
15. Cunningham

And on the bench:
16. Fitzpatrick
17. Philpott
18. Barker
19. Faloon
20. Porter / Willis
21. NOC / McKinney
22. Seymour ]


Now, alright, a number of the better players there retired rather than moved on. And some were never fit, or just poor.

But it shows how few players we actually retain. There may, in fact, be players I’ve missed. But it seems a lot, given we have thirty-odd full time contracts.

Any thoughts?

Don Alfonso wrote:Just to change direction for a moment – I thought, given questions about squad depth, I would look at those who have left between Matt Williams’ departure (allegedly by text message) and Mark Anscombe (the less said about text messages the better). Our squad subtractions, if you like.

So, from just before Brian McLaughlin’s appointment to his departure, the following players have moved on/retired:


T.J. Anderson
Tim Barker
Isaac Boss
B.J. Botha
Ryan Caldwell
Jerry Cronin
Bryn Cunningham
Kieron Dawson
Rib Dewey
Simon Danielli
Willie Faloon
Justin Fitzpatrick
Tamaiti Horua
Ian Humphreys
Andy Kyriacou
Mark McCrea
Matt McCullough
David McIlwane
James McKinney (TBC?)
Timoci Nagusa
Niall O’Connor
Ed O’Donoghue
Stuart Philpott
David Pollock
Ian Porter (TBC?)
Tommy Seymour
Clinton Schifcofske
Paul Steinmetz
Jamie Smith
Pedrie Wannenberg
Cillian Willis
Ian Whitten
Bryan Young

Not including temporary players such as Terblanche and Emerick.

[ As an aside, that gives us a theoretical best team of:

1. Young
2. Kyriacou
3. Botha
4. Caldwell
5. McCullough
6. Anderson
7. Pollock
8. Wannenberg
9. Boss
10. Humphreys
11. Nagusa
12. Steinmetz
13. McCrea
14. Danielli
15. Cunningham

And on the bench:
16. Fitzpatrick
17. Philpott
18. Barker
19. Faloon
20. Porter / Willis
21. NOC / McKinney
22. Seymour ]


Now, alright, a number of the better players there retired rather than moved on. And some were never fit, or just poor.

But it shows how few players we actually retain. There may, in fact, be players I’ve missed. But it seems a lot, given we have thirty-odd full time contracts.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts are Don has too much time on his hands!

My thoughts are that our turnover of players is far, far too high to build a sustainable level of success.

Whether it's down to the players, coaches or club or all three I don't know but its something we need to improve on going forward.

Ha ha! Actually, the polar opposite is true! I’ve only been on here very sporadically. Missed all the debate after the Munster (x2), Edinburgh and final games. If someone else is already more or less saying what I’d be saying, I don’t bother.

So I have to make sure that when I post, it’s something vaguely thought-provoking.

Smartarse!

Don Alfonso wrote:Ha ha! Actually, the polar opposite is true! I’ve only been on here very sporadically. Missed all the debate after the Munster (x2), Edinburgh and final games. If someone else is already more or less saying what I’d be saying, I don’t bother.

So I have to make sure that when I post, it’s something vaguely thought-provoking.

Smartarse!

But it is a good point you have made and there is too much change to sustain continuity and improvement but also you have to factor in regime change at different levels so that lead to quite a number of players leaving

rodders wrote:My thoughts are that our turnover of players is far, far too high to build a sustainable level of success.

Whether it's down to the players, coaches or club or all three I don't know but its something we need to improve on going forward.

Cant agree - virtually all those players fall into one of three categories:

Retirement
Not good enough
Didn't want to be here

A couple of exceptions - Wannenberg - weren't allowed to keep, Botha - messed us about but they are just that the exceptions

We were a shambles 3 years ago and a lot of aging players and dead wood needed clearing out

geoff998rugby wrote:

rodders wrote:My thoughts are that our turnover of players is far, far too high to build a sustainable level of success.

Whether it's down to the players, coaches or club or all three I don't know but its something we need to improve on going forward.

Cant agree - virtually all those players fall into one of three categories:

Retirement
Not good enough
Didn't want to be here

Exactly Geoff I'm not blaming the club per se, its just an observation and its something we need to improve on.

But also having left Wilson and bowe are coming back. I understand we hope to have a few of our exiting players return likewise. The problem being anyone outside the top 22/25 players will be getting their gametime from AIL, which is not good enough to sustain their talents never mind improve them.

Which of these would we still want in the squad?

T.J. Anderson
Tim Barker
Isaac Boss
B.J. Botha
Ryan Caldwell
Jerry Cronin
Bryn Cunningham
Kieron Dawson
Rib Dewey
Simon Danielli
Willie Faloon
Justin Fitzpatrick
Tamaiti Horua
Ian Humphreys
Andy Kyriacou
Mark McCrea
Matt McCullough
David McIlwane
James McKinney (TBC?)
Timoci Nagusa
Niall O’Connor
Ed O’Donoghue
Stuart Philpott
David Pollock
Ian Porter (TBC?)
Tommy Seymour
Clinton Schifcofske
Paul Steinmetz
Jamie Smith
Pedrie Wannenberg
Cillian Willis
Ian Whitten
Bryan Young

(ignoring those who have retired)

But how many of those did we 'let go' compared with how many chose to go.

I imagine it must be very difficult to find players who are content with not starting, but yet do their utmost when they get a chance. This is why I love Darcy.

But if players think they are better than we do, then we have to let them go and good riddance.

Theres such an array of reasons why all the above left. I dont think Ulster Rugby can be blamed in many instances.

Tim Barker has retired from top flight rugby so I would exclude him - I would, on his form this year, add Caldwell to the assets list.

Not sure we could do much about Botha, Boss and Wannenberg.
McKinney will benefit from his departure.

That leaves us with Humphreys, Faloon, Whitten who are open to debate

Ironically, give my earlier post, McL must be the first Ulster coach in some years to actually see out his contract...

Did Barker have 'issues' with management Geoff? I always felt that he was a fairly solid squad player. I thought his injuries were a cover story?

Don Alfonso wrote:Ironically, give my earlier post, McL must be the first Ulster coach in some years to actually see out his contract...

Hopefully theres someone else who wont!

www.kidneyclock.net/

clivemcl wrote:Did Barker have 'issues' with management Geoff? I always felt that he was a fairly solid squad player. I thought his injuries were a cover story?

Basically got pushed down to 4th in the 2nd row pecking order, got feedup not playing, and then stop doing the hard yards in training and eventually just disappeared.

This is a big issue for us - the drop in standard from Pro 12 to AIB is over a cliff. We have nowhere near enough Ravens games to keep squad players up to speed.

This is why the likes of McKinney, Porter and Cronin are going to the English 1st Divsion.
Also a reason why players have started to drift to Connacht

Well at least Wannenberg's display somewhat lowered the bar for Wilson - when your 10 and 8 go walkabout it leaves you a bit exposed - guess it's why McL had to go

geoff998rugby wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Did Barker have 'issues' with management Geoff? I always felt that he was a fairly solid squad player. I thought his injuries were a cover story?

Basically got pushed down to 4th in the 2nd row pecking order, got feedup not playing, and then stop doing the hard yards in training and eventually just disappeared.

This is a big issue for us - the drop in standard from Pro 12 to AIB is over a cliff. We have nowhere near enough Ravens games to keep squad players up to speed.

This is why the likes of McKinney, Porter and Cronin are going to the English 1st Divsion.
Also a reason why players have started to drift to Connacht

I heard he'd made a decision to pursue a career in accountancy/chartered surveying or something of that ilk?

That is true but as far as Ulster rugby are concerned he walked out on them in the middle of the season - not impressed

So what’s the latest with our back row and #10 recruitment

I guess if someone knew they would post it!

But so far the latest we've heard is that NOC is in fact not a done deal, and we may yet have to take someone like Staunton.

We've heard that we are 'struggling' to find the 'right' backrower.

Thought I would repost this from "the other" board. Stefan T. on Twitter. A man that arrived in Ulster in November, on a short-term contract, having previously decided to retire.


StefanT15: U can play rugby anywhere thats easy bit but its team mates and locals that makes it memorable.Today I leave NI but will always #SUFTUM.

SimonBorchardt: @StefanT15 What does SUFTUM mean?

StefanT15: @SimonBorchardt You really have to experience yourself to understand. Its our supporters song, Stand Up For The Ulstermen.


You don't have to play somewhere for three+ years, as a marquee name, to be a player who captivates supporters utterly, and comes to embody something special about the ethos of a team. Can't praise him highly enough.

If someome on the supporters board is to be believed Porter is not going to England.

Don't know if a deal fell through or Ulster offered him an acceptable contract.

Also been checking up on McIlwaine at Doncaster - been playing really really well by accounts.

Don Alfonso wrote:
You don't have to play somewhere for three+ years, as a marquee name, to be a player who captivates supporters utterly, and comes to embody something special about the ethos of a team. Can't praise him highly enough.

Seconded. Didn't have the best day on Saturday but he's made a huge contribution to our team. All the best Stefan !

Here right enough Geoff!

Check this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfJhB4pVOWg

Hope we get him back at some point.

Also all the players at doncaster are sponsored. David is sponsored by a company under the acronym T.O.S.S.E.R.S

Good news about porter I think. But is that contract subtracted from the deal we would be able to offer our NIQ backrower?

geoff998rugby wrote:If someome on the supporters board is to be believed Porter is not going to England.

Don't know if a deal fell through or Ulster offered him an acceptable contract.

Also been checking up on McIlwaine at Doncaster - been playing really really well by accounts.

geoff is McIlwaine not off to Bristol? Read that a few weeks back before the Championship play offs that he had signed on for next season

He is moving to Bristol foir next year.

Yes he is, marty

We have Payne, D'arcy and young Nelson coming through at 15 for the minute anyway. A lot will depend on where Nelson ends up playing and can he be developed to his full potential.

I wouldn't worry too much about Porters contract, assuming he is getting one, reducing our financial capacity to sign a good backrower.

I think a certain cup run has helped in that regard.
Probably the other way round, the cup run means me do not have to trim Porter from the squad after all.

My worry is that in the AIB he will not develop and he is 24 now.

If Porter is staying that indicates to me that Pienaar will be starting a lot more at 10 with Marshall inside him and Porter on the bench.
That's a far better solution than drafting NOC in.

The Great Aukster wrote:If Porter is staying that indicates to me that Pienaar will be starting a lot more at 10 with Marshall inside him and Porter on the bench.
That's a far better solution than drafting NOC in.

Pienaar at 10 will be used at times surely so as not to overexpose Jackson

I disagree, In an interview after the final Pienaar re-established that he signed here to play 9.

Although he maybe said that just to publicly say "I know your going to try putting me at 10, and i don't like it!" Without having to have the actual awkward one on one conversation with management.

I dont think Pienaer will play 10 - simply a matter than Porter is seen as a better 3rd 9 than McIlory. I would not read any more than that in it

No, we're still going to get a 10 obviously. I hope now that Ian Porter gets significant gametime. He's a better long term prospect than Marshall so he should be on the bench for games when Pienaar is at 9 in the Pro12 so he can get some gametime off the bench.

I genuinely believe Porter will be our first choice 9 in two years, after Pienaar leaves. But we can't just put him in the Ravens for two years and then hope he cuts it, at the age of 26, with next to no top level experience!

If Porter is staying he needs to get gametime. Porter and Marshall must rotate.

Why do you think he's a better long term prospect than marshall Notch, based on what?

His pass. Marshall will always be a 9 who is technically weak at the skill a scrum half will use the most. Porter has a pass you could set your watch to.

Marshall's passing has definitely improved but his biggest fault is his decision making and his lack of ability to ironically marshal the troops in front of him. Not sure if Porter is any better at this?

The coaches must see some advantage in Marshall though.