Ulster squad additions

First topic message reminder :

You did not imagine that - it was said. A few weeks ago too.

Notch wrote:Yeah, think that is genuinely a case of a name being plucked from someones arse in truth.

There's too much arse plucking going on

Arse plucking is all we have to go on

That might leave us very exposed

BBC are reporting Herring Botes and NOC will be coming in, theyve been pretty good in what theyve reported so probably the 3 we will see come in

All three are names that have been mentioned, and I see no reason not to assume the BBC have this one right. Its one think to hear stuff on here, but the BBC are obviously going to be more sure of their info before reporting it.

Thats what I think is going to happen.

Just seen this on FB - good signings, O'Connor obviously the best IQ 10 we could get.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Just seen this on FB - good signings, O'Connor obviously the best IQ 10 we could get.

Hes not a bad back up to have I think were getting a better player than then when he left

Just how well rated is Botes? Are we looking at three backups here, or is Botes capable of keeping Henry out of the 1stXV

I think these three aren't as good as the guys their replacing;

Herring for Kyriacou- EVEN. Don't know much about Herring but Kyriacou wasn't anything special.
Botes for Wannenburg- Not quite as good. Wannenburg was proven, consistent, could play a huge amount of games in a season and loved the club. His successor has a lot to live up to.
O'Connor for Humphreys- a year ago you would have said it was a terrible deal for us, but Humph didn't cover himself in glory last year. Leaves us worse off all the same, Jackson won't learn much from his new understudy.

BUT, Roger Wilson in- great signing. Better than Faloon. Tommy Bowe in- great signing. If he's replacing anybody its Whitten, he's the better player, but in reality he's just bolstering our depth in that area and he will add some great competition to the back three.

If these three are confirmed I would be happy with our five signings made over the summer, as well as the increased prominence Birch, Marshall and Annett will enjoy.

Has anyone got a link for the BBC report?

Does Botes play both 6 and 7?

Rodders-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18323254

Artful_Dodger wrote:Does Botes play both 6 and 7?

Well the Saffers mix 'em up a good bit. He's more of a 7 than a 6 I think... tried to watch him in the Super15 at the weekend, he came on as a replacement, got injured and left the pitch no more than couple of minutes later.

In fairness Notch, Botes isnt replacing Wannenberg!

The question is, is Wilson an improvement on Wannenberg and is Botes an improvement on Faloon. I think overall Wilson/Botes just edges it over Wannenberg/Faloon. (although I havnt watched Wilson very much over the years, just maybe two games.

Agreed, our backrow options are overall better next year.

Wondering when Ferris isn't playing will we go with Botes at 6 and Henry at 7, or Henry at 6 and Botes at 7...?

Notch wrote:I think these three aren't as good as the guys their replacing;

Herring for Kyriacou- EVEN. Don't know much about Herring but Kyriacou wasn't anything special.

Strange comment to make when you admit to not knowing much about Herring!

Artful_Dodger wrote:Does Botes play both 6 and 7?

Nah he is a 7. Too small to be a 6. Henry is probably going to be on the bench now. Not sure how I feel about this.

Who is Herring? Aren't we signing Jacques Botes from the Sharks?

Watching this, I reckon he might be one of those guys who is just one of many in the S15, but could really shine up here rather like Wannenberg did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3UrmJgmLy4

Nice scoop up at 5:50

Rava wrote:

Notch wrote:I think these three aren't as good as the guys their replacing;

Herring for Kyriacou- EVEN. Don't know much about Herring but Kyriacou wasn't anything special.

Strange comment to make when you admit to not knowing much about Herring!

I mean the three leaving are better than the three coming in, on the whole. I think Herring may actually be bette than Kyriacou, but I don't know either way.

Herring is a big guy for a hooker and seems to be highly rated for his work in the loose.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Who is Herring? Aren't we signing Jacques Botes from the Sharks?

Herring is a hooker, south african born, IQ, came through London Irish acadamy, hes at Western Force at the minute I think.

Oh right, I completely misread the signings and thought somebody said "Herring Bota" as a full name. Forgot about the hooker signing.

Botes certainly looks to have a bit of pace about him.

clivemcl wrote:Watching this, I reckon he might be one of those guys who is just one of many in the S15, but could really shine up here rather like Wannenberg did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3UrmJgmLy4

Nice scoop up at 5:50

Looks a very handy player, all rounder.

Seems like our back row options will be this:

6) Ferris, Henry
7) Botes, Birch
8) Wilson, Diack

Henry will bench in all the big games.

I also assume Botes will only be here for a year? Since he is over 30.

I'll eat my hat if Henry isn't starting the big games .

Yeah but if you think about it, Wilson is a cert at 8 if he plays the way he has for the Saints. Ferris is a cert if he is fit, and it will certainly be between Botes and Henry for the 7 shirt. I think Botes will edge him, and Henry will be the utility option on the bench.

Rory if Botes is signing for a year Henry will be ahead of him if there isnt much in quality between the 2 then its more beneficial to play Henry than Botes especially if Henry improves on last season

Looks like an excellent player. Looks like a 7 who is smart and good enough to adapt across the whole back row, could complete our back row options nicely. But if he signs I'd be stunned if Henry didn't start. Maybe ahead of Botes, who lets be honest, apart from that excellent clip piece aside, we really cant tell is better than Henry or not, or Wilson, who I'm pretty sure Henry is better than.

I think the backrow will be competitive, and thats what we want....also the ability to rotate and cover international call ups and injury without weakening the side.

However Henry was a standout player for us this year, ever present in the 1st XV and I honestly 100% expect that still to be the case next season.

I also think Henry may be more involved with the Irish squads over the next few seasons.

Wilson is a definite cert if he plays as he has been playing the past few seasons, I am pretty sure about that one.

rodders wrote:I'll eat my hat if Henry isn't starting the big games .

Start chomping

It will be a straight fight between him and Botes for 7.
He is no longer considered an 8 and Ferris will always start if fit.

I have to say the signings fit what I have heard.
Herring I have already explained.

NOC - the only dispute seems to have been is it 1 year or 2.
It will be interesting to see who won that eyeball contest.

Botes addresses a concern over lack of pace in the backrow.
He will be only a 1 year signing.
Also being a Shark was something I speculated on a couple of weeks back.

I feel the same way about this as people saying Trimble/Gilroy won't see much gametime with Bowe incoming. We're so used to only having a decent starting XV we're panicking that we have options! Now we have some competition and thats good.

There will now be some good rotation in the backrow, the back three and the centres and guys like Henry, Gilroy, Spence, Trimble and Botes will all get good gametime in the league and in the HEC. It's not a worry for Ireland. If any of the Irish players above are in a rich enough vein of form to be selected for Ireland they will take their chances with Ulster and nail down a place

Everyone's a winner Notch

I think so- hope so anyway. I think what we've desperately missed is the ability to bring a guy onto the pitch in the backrow after about 55/60 minutes who can change the game. No impact in having Diack or Faloon on the bench. Hopefully Diack continues the improvement he started showing at the end of last season.

The player who I am concerned for in terms of development is Birch. He will now be third choice openside.

If he is good enough he wil make it - if not he won't

In the end Faloon did reach the required standard.
Also Ferris will play a low number of matches so in practise he will often be on the bench. It will be him or Diack.

Botes for Faloon good signing. Ulster were seriously stretched at openside and he will help both Henry and Birch develop their games there.
Herring for Kyriacou - don't know anything about RH so this is totally unknown.
NOC for Humphreys. Bad as Humphreys could be, he sometimes could be great, so this is a drop in squad quality. Ulster's season is completely dependent on Mr Pienaar.
Wilson for Wannenburg. Drop in both squad quality and flexibility, forced by the draconian IRFU directives.
Bowe for Danielli. Step up in both squad quality and flexibility.
Payne for Terblanche. Legend that ST became, this feels like a new signing and hopefully JP will step up to be at least as good.

Overall maybe a marginal gain but it's incredible that DH reckons Ulster will be fine without an experienced playmaker at 10.

Henry is very versatile at rabo level... He will probably get alot of time at 6. I would think as our HEC back row may have to be (for a proportion of the games)
Henry
Botes
Wilson

God knows how much damage 1F was doing to himself, playing when he shouldn't have been.

Botes looks lively and scores plenty of tries.

http://www.itsrugby.co.uk/player-2096.html

Some observation re strength

Last years backrow: Ferris, Henry, Diack, Faloon, Wannenberg
This years back row: Ferris, Henry, Diack, Birch, Botes, Henderson, Wilson

No brainer we are a a lot stronger

Last years back three: Trimble, Gilroy, Terblanche, Danielli
This years back three: Trimble, Gilroy, Bowe, Payne

No brainer we are a lot stronger

If you take into account the continued development of younger players we are also stronger in the front row.

NOC and Jackson for Humphreys is questionable but overall we will be a stronger team next year than this

Agreed. And after seeing the assured performances of Nelson and Farrell for the U20's yesterday the depth is growing. Henderson's performance was top drawer and against guys who are playing Super 15 rugby as well.

geoff998rugby wrote:Some observation re strength

Last years backrow: Ferris, Henry, Diack, Faloon, Wannenberg
This years back row: Ferris, Henry, Diack, Birch, Botes, Henderson, Wilson

No brainer we are a a lot stronger

A come on now Geoff play fair , Birch and Henderson were available last season too. So basically we are minus Faloon and Wannenburg and plus Botes and Wilson.

That isn't a no brainer at all, Wilson has big boots to fill and well I'd presume Botes is better than Faloon but we'll see. The dynamics will be different though so it remains to be seen if we will be stronger, especially of Ferris and Henry play less games.

Agree that the back 3 should be stronger but if Gilroy breaks into the Ireland squad as well then we could be missing 3 wingers for much of the season.

O'Connor isn't fit to lace Humphreys boots.

I think overall we will be stronger but on paper there isn't much in it.

Birch and Henderson were bit players last year - Henderson played one game at the end.

They will be full squad players next year which why I have included them next year but not this.

By the same token I could include a couple of more players like Joyce for example who, I bet, will get similar game time to Birch did this.

My criteria was players making a meaningful contribution to the season as such I suggest the breakdown is a fair one

NOC is not as good as Humphreys but by the same token Jackson will be a much better player next than this.

The one thing you have to do in assessing squad strength is take into account how much better a young player will be compared to the previous year - you will see a lot more of Nelson in the back three next year for example.

Trimble, Bowe, Gilroy with Ireland ? - my guess is the wingers will be Spence and Cochrane

geoff998rugby wrote:The one thing you have to do in assessing squad strength is take into account how much better a young player will be compared to the previous year

Totally agree but by that same token you could argue that some of the outgoing players will be better next year too, like Faloon, Porter, McKinney and Whitten.

I think the differences between the squads are much a muchness. We've recruited some quality but lost some quality and depth too.

The back 3 and 3/4's should be stronger but we will be weaker at fly half. Back row about the same in my opinion.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Trimble, Bowe, Gilroy with Ireland ? - my guess is the wingers will be Spence and Cochrane

Now we are getting delusional. With Earls, Kearney Jr and Zebo around that will be six! Can't see it, at best two of them will be in the squad.

Rodders we will be weaker at OH based on the 10/11 season when Humphreys was playing well. After the season he just had if Ulster had signed me it would have been an improvement

I dont think it is that unlikely.

Kearney jr looks more of a full back to me.
Earls could easily be considered as much as a 13 as a wing.

Gilroy and Trimble in front of Zebo I think it coud happen.