The Forbidden Topic

On 606v2 a wide range of topics are discussed. But there is one topic that few dare to mention...

Yesterday an extremely high quality match was played. The winner played 34 winners with only 10 unforced errors and the loser a very repectable 28 winners and 24 unforced errors.

The ATP site described the match as "scintillating". I was watching and can verify that it was. Neil Harmon the Times journalist who was there watching had this to say at the time (on twitter) "I'm lost for words....(except that it is balle de match pour Rafa)", "GSM Rafa 6-4, 7-5. Wonderful, wonderful tennis." Peter Flemming in commentary said it was the sort of match that would get turned off in the players dressing rooms as it would be too discouraging to watch such scary good tennis.

Nadal played an amazing match (There I've said the forbidden thing!) but so did Berdych. At the FO no seeding position will provide protection from him in what promises to be an extreemly tricky quarter.

I am wearing my hard hat as I await criticism for mentioning the unmentionable...

No hard hat needed - it was awesome.......and wasn't Rafa quicker between points

From last year two players needed to make changes to their game in order to overcome very significant barriers:

Rafael Nadal - in order to overcome Djokovic.
Andy Murray - in order to make the next step of "challenging" for Grand Slam titles (and possibly winning one).

I think after Wimbledon we will be in a better position to evaluate how successful each has been in developing their respective games in order to meet those challenges.

Nore Staat

It's understandable that you may not have noticed as it probably comes in the forbidden topic category but Nadal has already "overcome Djokovic" (6-3 6-1 in Monte Carlo).

I think it's fair to say that Andy Murray's chances of "challenging for Grand slam titles (and possibly winning one)" is not a forbidden topic here on 606v2.

HE: I am referring to Nadal meeting Djokovic in a final / semi-final of a grand slam tournament (i.e. in the seventh / sixth, best of five-set match over a two week period).

However, everyone who follows closely the sport of tennis will be able to tell for themselves whether or not Nadal and Murray have made any significant changes to their game this year, specifically identified and worked on to overcome the challenges specified above.

I am just saying let's wait until after Wimbledon 2012, to compare the progress they have made in their respective games to meet those challenges.

Nore Staat

These are all interesting questions but they are not forbidden topics here on 606v2. In particular I would say "Nadal's Struggles" or variations on that theme is a particular favourite.

If you had watched yesterdays match you would have seen that it would be very difficult indeed to improve on the stellar level that Nadal played. That is the forbidden topic that is not discussed here on 606v2. Maybe it's not just the players that Peter Flemming speculates are too scared to watch but also some tennis fans who do not want to acknowledge?

I am not sure what you mean by forbidden topics. The only interest I have here is the respective developments in the Nadal and Murray games. It just seems to me that Nadal is better able and willing to identify and then make the changes needed to overcome specific challenges, compared to Murray (who just seems to end up in a pile of frustration) ... although I would like to wait until after Wimbledon to make that assessment.

Of course, some have already mentioned that they see distinct developments in Nadals game during this tournament, whereas that hasn't been said for Murray.

The importance for Nadal in using these tournaments as part of his game development is also becoming clear. It is also putting into context Nadals criticism of the changes made at Madrid. Clearly he wasn't able to implement and develop the specific changes he was working on in his game at Madrid, because the conditions were too far different to that of "red clay" and what he had planned for.

.. and long may it remain that way! In fact, mods, could you delete this thread please as its subject is, as hawkeye points out, forbidden? Many thanks.

he - any talk of Nadal playing an amazing match is, according to the OP, a "forbidden topic." And that being the case, you really shouldn't be mentioning such things.

Oh .. wait a minute .......you ARE the OP ....

HE,

Sometimes silence is praise enough. Not forbidden. Even the most ardent Nadal critic would admit that yesterday Nadal played with pace and aggression. The reason being is because Berdych came out and set his stall that he was going to hit through Nadal. He deserved a set at least for the brutality of his hitting. There were passages where Nadal tried to slow the rallies down hit the BH into the deuce court.

I think Nadal deserves high praise for his performance because it wasn't the 'lungs' that won it, but some exceptional hitting. Also he wasn't taking loads of time between points neither.

Whether he can maintain that level for next few weeks is another matter.

Does this mean you won't bash Murray today with another daft article?

Im glad to mentioned the unmentionable HE because as a fan I missed the one match where I believe Rafa was playing like Rafa... then typical of me not to be here for the day. Hoping that Spanish tv would do a repeat but no such luck.
Anyway thanks for the thread

I don't get this. Nadals high standard on clay is forbidden?

Are we also to pretend that Djokovic's ownership of him over a long period is a media myth?

legendkillarV2 wrote:HE,

..............................................................................................................................

Does this mean you won't bash Murray today with another daft article?

I fear you might be asking a lot there lk ! (hard to imagine that HE would ever make Murray-bashing a "forbidden topic"....)

Rafa is clearly at his very best, and looks to be peaking at the perfect time for RG. Meantime in Rome .....might as well hand him the trophy.

Yup, Ferrer is in for a good old fashioned butt picking today!

reckoner wrote:Yup, Ferrer is in for a good old fashioned butt picking today!

WEDGIEEEEEEEE

What a stupid OP.

HE you seem to have an axe to grind even when there's no reason to.

Most of the outspoken and vitriolic anti-Nadal group have left and yet here you are imagining slightings.

If anything it's posts like this that stir up player bashing responses. I haven't read an anti-Nadal post in ages but according to you he is a victim on this board. Just grow up.



emancipator

I disagree with HE on this.

V2 has become a much more tolerant forum after the exodus of some rather unpleasant posters who dedicated a lot of their efforts in bashing Nadal. While some of their criticisms of Nadal like excessive time between points were valid, most other criticisms and their choice of language showed a lot of hatred for Nadal as an individual.

Anyways, that seems to have changed now, and its a good thing. So it is now possible to say Nadal played a good aggressive game yesterday without being called names and mocked by a self described tennis connoisseurs.

Well I personally cannot comment on Rafa's recent match, because I have not seen it (had to work). However, I have always appreciated Rafa's talent and have never disputed it, even when he continually beats Roger (which he is most likely to do again in the final if Roger makes it).

Rafa's crosscourt forehand is very effective and his backhand is amazing. He is very good at what he does and impressive haul of slams and masters titles bear witness to his incredible talent.

I am aware of the fact that had it not been for Novak's brilliance last year, Rafa may have well repeated his 2010 form with three slams, putting him on 12 slams.

awkie

If you are continually quoting Neil Harman from the Times in your boring articles at least spell his name correctly - It's Harman not Harmon.

Are you sure your are a Times reader!

Have a swig of the hard stuff and change it please.

Haha, her name's Hawkie not awkie



mancipator

I'm being polite by even calling her awkie mancie.

lol

Ha ha!

Just looked at some of the comments here. First so nice to see a few brave enough to recognise Nadal's excellent play. Talatonian, Haddie-nuff and even legendkillarV2 (is that the same legendkillarV2 that was so abusive yesterday?)

Many tried to change the topic from the forbidden one to a more acceptable one - Nadal's struggles or even the chances of Murray getting a slam(?!). Sadly the optimism of 10IS was unfounded as many proved that talking about the stellar play of a player that is contention to be considered the best ever still reduces many posters here on 606V2 to petty name calling. Strange!

hawkeye wrote:Nore Staat

It's understandable that you may not have noticed as it probably comes in the forbidden topic category but Nadal has already "overcome Djokovic" (6-3 6-1 in Monte Carlo).

I think it's fair to say that Andy Murray's chances of "challenging for Grand slam titles (and possibly winning one)" is not a forbidden topic here on 606v2.

Come on No ways thats a forbidden topic, indeed most of them enjoyed the Monte-Carlo Rafa win over Nole, its just Rafa fans are cautioned don't read too much into it unless Rafa really can repeat it. In MC Nole was clearly not at his best and no wonder Rafa thrashed him out, Nole is not at his best in Rome either, its better for him to go down to Roger than get thrashed at Rafa's hands before RG.

One guy who can stop Rafa from Rome title is Rafa's bunny Roger [I know I kinda sound crazy] , this Nole is not gonna stop Rafa from Rome title, Rafa plays his best when given underdog status, he is no more underdog to Roger and that might put him uder pressure and let Roger pressure free, but can Roger do 2 good win in 2 days against 2 great players? really a question mark.

Whatever the result I want a great match, on the other hand Ferrer will not go down without a fight, he is the one guy who can make Rafa get bored at baseline tennis , really can't wait for that match either.

Oh no ferrer match is already over before i complete my previous post.

hawkeye wrote:...First so nice to see a few brave enough to recognise Nadal's excellent play. Talatonian, Haddie-nuff and even legendkillarV2 (is that the same legendkillarV2 that was so abusive yesterday?)

Many tried to change the topic from the forbidden one to a more acceptable one - ...

So you only wanted fawning appreciation of Nadals singular performance, rather than an analytical discourse of performance within the wider challenge and development context framed in comparative terms.

My God Nore Stat that was a mouthful lol !!!!
I didn´t see Nadals match yesterday only appreciated someone filling in the gaps for me.. saw a few highlights today... pretty impressive I must say.

BUT. I was overly impressed today have to say.. yes he got it together in the 2nd set but thought he was lucky to win the first ..albeit I know that Ferrer had only himself to blame but I felt Rafa didn´t match up to what I saw of yesterday´s match. Still Rafa did what he had to do so I was happy with that at any rate.

Just looked at some of the comments here. First so nice to see a few brave enough to recognise Nadal's excellent play. Talatonian, Haddie-nuff and even legendkillarV2 (is that the same legendkillarV2 that was so abusive yesterday?)

HE

I was not abusive. I speculated on your continued bias and hatred towards Murray.

See with I HE no matter who plays well, I will always recognise good play no matter who it may be. The problem with you is that such articles like this will get the Nadal tractors biting at the bit and no matter how good he may play. Just like other posters in general who are fed up to the back teeth with your pointless Murray articles.