Japan : A northern or southern hemisphere country?

Seemingly the hot-bed of new rugby money, Japan is in the NH. But the time-zone is hopeless for European TV audiences.

Maybe the market should be re-drawn along E-W divides.
E would represent countries like Japan, Oz, China, NZ, India etc.

W would be Europe, SA, and the Americas.

If Japan want to sell their league in new markets, then the first thing they can do is offer out an hour's highlights program each week. If people watch that, then they can look at broadcasting live games in different countries. Obviously more people will watch in countries with favourable time-zones.

One way to spread their game would be to do what the NFL do and play a game in Europe. Send two of their teams to London to play in a game, see if they can strike up an interest with the expat community in England and any English rugby fans who just can't get enough. Then look to show games live (probably on Sky). To start with they could probably get away with showing the matches 12 hours after they happen so as to put them on at a more convenient time. It would be very easy not to find out the result, so it wouldn't be spoiled for you.

The trouble Japan have is that the NFL is the pinnacle of American Football, it's got history and the Superbowl is an illustrious prize. Even if Japanese rugby teams played the odd game in Europe, the Japanese League final won't be the pinnacle of rugby, has no real history and isn't a big draw. Still might be worth a try if they were serious about spreading their product.

I don't know why you would want to redraw divides? Why can't it just be global (after all, Super XV is shown globally).

The Japanese league is something I know very little about. But players seem to go there, and it sounds like there is big money to be made. Does anyone know the number of teame, the average salaries, and what kind of tv contract they have (even if only within Japan)?

Players (particularly from Oceania) are choosing to end their celebrated careers in Japan on huge salaries. Maybe Japan is the new Premiership.

But I for one, won't be planning to get up at larks' fart to watch it.

is it important for the Top League to have a global audience? Wouldn't be improving the Japanese team be a higher priority?

doctor_grey wrote:The Japanese league is something I know very little about. But players seem to go there, and it sounds like there is big money to be made. Does anyone know the number of teame, the average salaries, and what kind of tv contract they have (even if only within Japan)?

One club reportedly offered SBW $930,000, so there's big money over there. It's a 14 team league with the top 4 going into play-offs. That's about all I know.

Is this having any positive effect on the Japanese national side...and reducing the number of "qualified " imports

Portnoy wrote:Players (particularly from Oceania) are choosing to end their celebrated careers in Japan on huge salaries. Maybe Japan is the new Premiership.

I think that it's more comparable to the MLS in the USA for soccer.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is this having any positive effect on the Japanese national side...and reducing the number of "qualified " imports

I'm not sure, although it can't be bad to have top international players from large rugby nations playing for their clubs, it improves the overall quality of the league. Nonu and Haskell have spent time there as well as a number of other top players joining their clubs next season, for example Alessana Tuilagi.

Zander i can see it benefitting aslong as the players going over really buy into it and put their time and effort back into the system...not just take their money and run.

Ive always disagreed that the Japanese dont have the physical aspects to play rugby....i think they do...they just need further input...

They should convert sumo wrestlers into props.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ive always disagreed that the Japanese dont have the physical aspects to play rugby....i think they do...they just need further input...

Geordie - try playing against a team! I once played against Sanix which featured Graham Bachop, Jamie Joseph and Rueben Parkinson when I played in Brisbane. They schooled us completely, we couldn't keep up. They were fast and athletic, even the props who were physical too. I think they beat us by about 30 points in the end, and my club was/is one of the clubs which contribute to the Reds, so effectively we were only 1 level below Super 15 (or 12 at the time)

They're progressing but they need more. I'd say they're about par with Italy or maybe slightly below?

I am sure i read on here that some jap teams aren't allowed to kick from hand and they get fined by the team if the do. They could be the new Oz where they only look to be about even at best in the scum but run from everywhere.

I also think that most of the players are from japan with only 3-4 from outside

I would put them in the pacific region. They are an island miles from rugby's home land so like nearly everywhere outside europe

Japan - an Asian country.
I saw an article recently where the Chinese army has chosed rugby as one of their 10 official sports. They asked NZ for 1000 coaches.
We sent 1.

Aparently they've signed a memorandum of understanding with the IRB and rugby is to be the main sport in one of their major cities.

Japan should be the leading nation as far as developing the Asian region. there are many countries that firstly has lots of money to throw at the sport.

Currently they play the Asia Pacific Cup with Samoa, Tonga and Fiji, but could bring in more nations.

Portnoy wrote:Seemingly the hot-bed of new rugby money, Japan is in the NH. But the time-zone is hopeless for European TV audiences.

Maybe the market should be re-drawn along E-W divides.
E would represent countries like Japan, Oz, China, NZ, India etc.

W would be Europe, SA, and the Americas.

Japan very much see itself on the asian pacific rim and match to Australia and New Zeeland (with regarding to rugby). There is more alignment in culture to rugby with this and also the peoples. There is more care about superrugby than europe competition.

nice to know that japan and even china are getting truely involved. If rugby keeps growing around the world the NH and SH will become pointless though- That distinction is only used due to the old guard and japan off course should be and is located within the asian area

NH are happy to get rid of the distinction because it not flatter to them!

No wonder Japan like to join the SH more.

But serious. Japan already play in the Pacific tournament with Samoa and Tonga and Junior allblack and second Australias or Maoris sometime, so they are very firm already seen in south.

Also skimming the players to coax from the experience from superrugby and trinations.

So is not really eastern/western at all. Yes Japan is a "Southern Hemispherian" side already.

So much money is generated by TV revenues awop, the audience is in Australasian time zones.

That's why the logical emphasis might be on E/W and not N/S.

I would prefer things to stay the way they are, I prefer SA to play on the fast hard tracks rather than the cold, wet, unpleasant conditions up north.

Besides, rugby is still essentially a winter sport, and our season will clash with the NH.

Japan is the equivalent of Top14 cash wise maybe more so ,the national side won a major Competion last year.Against Fiji,Samoa,and Tonga a not inconsiderable feat.When you consider the Clubs feature big names from both Hemispheres Nonu,Kaino,Fourie DuPreez,possibly Hosea Gear.Many of these that play that are in mid career NOT finishing it.Japan by 2015 may be at the level of Samoa etc.by then.

I highly doubt that emack.
I listend to an IRB interview with Eddie Jones, the new Japan coach a while ago and he didn't sound very optimistic at all. By the sounds of it the last world cup, where Japan did very badly in has really stumped the growth of the game in Japan. It sounded like he was keen on putting more money in the 7's team because he feels they can genuinely be competitive there in the future.

And let's be honest, that "major" comp last year, the Pacific Nations Cup was a bit of a let off last year. Fiji, Tonga and Samoa had very young squads with a lot of amateur players while Japan was at full strength.

The RWC was bad for all tier 2 sides because of there work load,after giving France a fright in the first game.It was a case of making sure they qualified for the NextRWC instead of doing well in this one[2011]

Japan with their speed would be unreal with the 7s

i dont think they would be unreal at 7's at all. However i wanna see a japanese team made out of summo wrestlers- teach em some carrying skills and bingo - they are some heavy dudes

I must say I had to take a second look at Japan in the Hong kong tournament when Lote Tuqiri ran onto the field.

Portnoy wrote:Seemingly the hot-bed of new rugby money, Japan is in the NH. But the time-zone is hopeless for European TV audiences.

Maybe the market should be re-drawn along E-W divides.
E would represent countries like Japan, Oz, China, NZ, India etc.

W would be Europe, SA, and the Americas.

Japan are Northern Hemisphere and their season is geared for the northern Hemisphere also.

They toured Wales in 2004 in November when the domestic season had just started and their clubs refused to release their best players, the resulting hammerings by Wales and Scotland were not pretty.

The last time I checked their club season mirrored the Northern hemisphere season.

I agree though their time zone is awful for Europe, their 8 hours ahead of us at the moment, making viewing games very difficult for tv audiences.

nganboy wrote:Japan - an Asian country.
I saw an article recently where the Chinese army has chosed rugby as one of their 10 official sports. They asked NZ for 1000 coaches.
We sent 1.

I think to be fair to New Zealand they already do loads all over the world for developing nations they have helped russia a lot. from memory i think the Crusaders do tie ups with some russian club sides. Several NPC teams loan players to russian club teams during the season, while some russian clubs go and train with provinces during the pre season.

http://www.crusaders.co.nz/news/crusaders-to-host-russians/402/news.aspx

AlynDavies wrote:

nganboy wrote:Japan - an Asian country.
I saw an article recently where the Chinese army has chosed rugby as one of their 10 official sports. They asked NZ for 1000 coaches.
We sent 1.

I think to be fair to New Zealand they already do loads all over the world for developing nations they have helped russia a lot. from memory i think the Crusaders do tie ups with some russian club sides. Several NPC teams loan players to russian club teams during the season, while some russian clubs go and train with provinces during the pre season.

http://www.crusaders.co.nz/news/crusaders-to-host-russians/402/news.aspx

That's interesting, I never reaslised New Zealand Rugby had ties with Russian Rugby. I agree that New Zealand do a lot to help developing countries which can only benefit the game as a whole, across the world.

Alyndaives that isnt really an agument for NZ doing alot for world rugby- - what is so out of the ordinary with that russian tour bar abit of coaching which i am very sure would have been paid for!

mystiroakey wrote:Alyndaives that isnt really an agument for NZ doing alot for world rugby- - what is so out of the ordinary with that russian tour bar abit of coaching which i am very sure would have been paid for!

If you'd looked more into it you'd find New Zealand do send players on loan to russia to help their players develop, they help with coaching and also allow their club teams to go to their provinces to train for preseason for better coaching.

They have also historically helped the Islands on and off the field.

Refer to my previous post, I thik Japan need to be developed in the northern Hemisphere in Europe. Maybe given 2 spots in the European Cup, I'm sure they could be squeezed in.

Alyn i have looked more into it and the russian outfit have hired a kiwi coach from a club- the russian outfit also pay for the loan players- This is standard practise in sport and i dont have a scooby about why your trying to make out this is NZ giving back- its just a financial agreement . By the way i am not saying that the kiwis dont do anything for world rugby, just that your example isnt proof just a business arrangement between two clubs.

"
However, in an attempt to once again climb back to the top, Krasny Yar have recently (2010) entered into an agreement with the Canterbury Rugby Union and the Canterbury Crusaders to use their facilities for a three week period during March and April every year. The club will use this base to play warm-up games against local New Zealand sides, receive high quality training and recruit players from New Zealand's endless production line.

The arrangement has already born fruit, with several New Zealand players signing on to play for Krasny Yar for the 2010 and 2011 Seasons, whilst the club has also recruited a New Zealand traniner currently working with the Canterbury Rugby Union.^[1]"

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is this having any positive effect on the Japanese national side...and reducing the number of "qualified " imports

From what I have read their rules are no different than most Unions, Japan clubs are allowed no more than 4 non Japanease players on the field at any one time, one of these players must be from a fellow Asian Union, i.e. Hong Kong, or Korea, the other 3 players can be from any country, however one of these 4 must be able to qualify to play for Japan on residency.

Their rules are not totally different from the British nations.

Generally their squads are made up of Japanease players, with New Zealanders (not islanders) making up the vast bulk of the foreign players, with the occasional islander and a few South Koreans.

"Refer to my previous post, I thik Japan need to be developed in the northern Hemisphere in Europe. Maybe given 2 spots in the European Cup, I'm sure they could be squeezed in."

Why - its in asia- how are the games gonna attract big time viewing when the time zones are so awkward!

Europe need to help out europe- Asia etc need to sort out Asia- its just simple dude.

Also do you honestly suggest in some euro cup envioroment we should sacrifice european clubs for an asian one- just because certain big SH teams cant be bothered with em!!

If this SH/NH divide is gonna cause issues in the future and used as a tool to exclude nations it needs to stop- its almost racism in its purist form!

mystiroakey wrote:"Refer to my previous post, I thik Japan need to be developed in the northern Hemisphere in Europe. Maybe given 2 spots in the European Cup, I'm sure they could be squeezed in."

Why - its in asia- how are the games gonna attract big time viewing when the time zones are so awkward!

Europe need to help out europe- Asia etc need to sort out Asia- its just simple dude.

Also do you honestly suggest in some euro cup envioroment we should sacrifice european clubs for an asian one- just because certain big SH teams cant be bothered with em!!

If this SH/NH divide is gonna cause issues in the future and used as a tool to exclude nations it needs to stop- its almost racism in its purist form!

Well considering University games in Japan can (and do) attract attendences of 60,000+ people then I'm sure the market is there!

Finally in Japan the publics interest is not in their national team, it is in the Top League, there is not that much interest in the national team, everything is geared towards their 14 team league.

As I said before the Japanease season is structured to the Northern Hemisphere one, so involving 2 of their clubs in Europe would be a good thing, from a sponsorship point of view and a tv one.

alyn you have completly missed the point - its about time zones, travelling times etc,etc

mystiroakey wrote:alyn you have completly missed the point - its about time zones, travelling times etc,etc

Clearly that is a serious problem, their 8 hours in front and a plane journey there from London to Tokyo would be about 12 hours!
Not much fun for a rugby player!

alyn 8 hours/12 hours is a serious logistical and timing problem to maximise viewing and rest for players in reagrds to when to play the matches. if your being sarchy its not working.

I appreciate it's not easy, but a dinner time kick off here would mean an 8pm kick off over there, so it can be worked around.

Secondly we are only talking about 1 trip to Japan for 3 teams a season, which won't kill anyone.

One of the biggest problems japanease rugby always has had, is they have no rivals. Korea were pretty close to them in the 80's but now Japan pretty much squash all the other teams in Asia. How good would new zealand of been without australia, or the 5 nations teams without neighbours to compete against.

alyn keep it regional end of story. europe needs to help out europe, there are our neighbours and logistically it makes sense- japan should play in a panasian cup.

its odd that you mention neighbours in your post, its down to them. you have hit the nail on th ehead without realising. forget that japan are in the NH- its seriously immatial- infact its just nonsense to group japan because of a hemisphere. japan need to be part of oceania/asia- obviously in an ideal world asia would be its own thing - but it cant be done- argentina really should have been grouped in with europe as well

So some think its okay to fly 12 hours to NZ but not 12 hours to Wales. Is that right?

The 4 nations from Arg to NZ to Aus and SA has to face all that travel now. You Europeans are just spoilt that's all.
It takes a little while but after 6/7 years even Biltong's crew got used to it and started winning away.

mystiroakey wrote:"Refer to my previous post, I thik Japan need to be developed in the northern Hemisphere in Europe. Maybe given 2 spots in the European Cup, I'm sure they could be squeezed in."

Why - its in asia- how are the games gonna attract big time viewing when the time zones are so awkward!

Europe need to help out europe- Asia etc need to sort out Asia- its just simple dude.

Also do you honestly suggest in some euro cup envioroment we should sacrifice european clubs for an asian one- just because certain big SH teams cant be bothered with em!!

If this SH/NH divide is gonna cause issues in the future and used as a tool to exclude nations it needs to stop- its almost racism in its purist form!

Mystiroakey, I mentioned this before, I beleive due to the number of rugby playing countries it will be easier to work in regions rtaher than hemisphere's

It is not really very practical to add every team in the NH to europe as your calendar is already so full, so the same with the SH. It is time for Japan with their resources to start looking at the Asia and Pacific rim as a region to develop. China and even Korea can easily fir into that as well.

so many reasons why NH doesnt make sense. But caleanders need to be looked at and i feel is a seperate issue that will continue even if we had good quality regional set ups.

The biggest problem is that professional rugby is really still in its infancy when you consider how long other sport has been going at it professionally.

I think the seasons as they stand currently (domestic specifically ) developed generically as the Broadcasters laid down their requirements and no Union has really gone to sit down and have a think about the whole thing.

If they had, seasons would be better structured and not so intermingled with different type of competitions, the SH with the latest fiasco in not being able to fit the Super XV into the calendar without having to break it up into pieces means we are going the same way.

The IRB and Rugby Unions need to sit down before any new contracts are signed and figure out the most executable plan whereby players are considered first, then the broadcasters.

Yep it all seems very confusing and i have no idea how its gonna go forward without some big decsions and change ups

nganboy wrote:So some think its okay to fly 12 hours to NZ but not 12 hours to Wales. Is that right?

The 4 nations from Arg to NZ to Aus and SA has to face all that travel now. You Europeans are just spoilt that's all.
It takes a little while but after 6/7 years even Biltong's crew got used to it and started winning away.

I find the idea of driving 4 hours to Wales off putting enough without the having fly 12 hours! ( no is joke).

i doesnt take 4 hours from richmond- about 2 and a half dude

mystiroakey wrote:i doesnt take 4 hours from richmond- about 2 and a half dude

It's 4 hours by MegaBus though