Buc Ball - Is Free the Man in Tampa?

By Thomond

Spoiler:

If you saw Josh Freeman in 2010, you would have thought this kid could soon be an elite QB in the NFL. He played incredibly well, throwing only 6 interceptions, at times his receivers bailed him out but overall he was pretty accurate, read the game well and most importantly won games for the Bucs. The 2010 Freeman resembled Ben Roethlisberger, with an added dimension. Roethlisberger is known as a scrambler but he isn't a great rusher, he has good mobility to get out of tough scenarios but doesn't usually pick up more than 100 yards a season. Freeman ran the ball, and ran it incredibly well. He was second in rushing yards from a QB, only behind Mike Vick. You could argue that Freeman looked better as he had to play in front of a weak schedule in 2010. In some ways you would be correct, the Bucs got to play in what was an extremely poor NFC West and pick up 4 wins.

Yet with playoff hopes on the line, in the Louisiana Superdome, Freeman showed he had the talent. With an 80 percent completion rate and 2 Touchdowns, I think many thought the Bucs had their future QB. With guys like Mike Williams, a 2010 4th Round Pick and LeGarette Blount an Undrafted Rookie who had over 1000 yards in seven starts, and only received his first touch in week 3 of that season, I think some Buc fans thought that we could be seeing an incarnation of "The Triplets". The "Triplets" were the name of Dallas Cowboys' three pronged during their 90s dynasty. They were Troy Aikman, Quarterback, Michael Irvin, Wide Receiver, and Emmit Smith, Running back. Smith is now the all time leading rusher and all three are in the NFL Hall of Fame. While I think some Bucs fans got ahead of themselves (myself included) a relatively weak schedule seemed to over shadow deficiencies that still existed on the team, mainly on defence. Free Agency was somewhat of a disappointment, Michael Koenen was the only pickup of note and Barrett Ruud and Carnell "Cadillac" Williams were let go. Ruud was a solid player and could have help bring along Mason Foster the rookie who started last season for the Bucs. Foster put together a decent season but looked overawed on the backend, a veteran presence would have helped greatly.


Back to Freeman; admittedly I wouldn't know a huge amount about QB play, but I am a big sport fan. If you are staring down at one guy for a significant amount of time, the ball is going to him. That goes for American Football, Gaelic Football, Soccer, anything. Freeman was guilty of this last year, some of his interceptions were not incredibly bad throws; if a defender knows where it's going to go, they can do a good job anticipating it. Freeman threw the ball off the back foot at times, which loses power. The ideal way to throw is with your front foot planted, Freeman's power seems to be generated mainly from his back foot, I think this clip showcases it, although to be honest, my example might be wrong!

Spoiler:

Freeman also seemed reluctant to run last year. That's not all his fault however, Greg Olson Offensive Co-ordinator seemed to want to make Freeman into Drew Brees. Freeman is a lot of things but he is not your typical QB. I think the success of 2010 may also have got to Freeman, there were times when he could have ran for a first down or even 3/4 yards, but simply didn't. He looked for a check down or to force a pass. Are these problems, they are problems. But they are fixable. I hope to see more running from Number 5 next season. He lost 20 pounds (he was overweight in 2011) in the off-season, and is now under the weight he was in 2010. I have mixed feelings about him losing such weight, I think he has lost muscle as part of it and one of the reasons he was a success in 2010 was his ability to shed tackles. As a lighter player, will he be able to shake off defensive lineman like he used to? It should aid his speed and manoeuvrability, with an improved Offensive line, I hope to see Josh put up rushing numbers like he did in 2010. If Greg Schiano wants to run the ball like he has stated than perhaps Mike Sullivan, new Offensive Coordinator will include some running plays like Rob Chudzinski did in Carolina with Cam Newton.


Tampa Bay have had some good receivers during their time. Mark Carrier, Kevin House while Jimmie Giles was also a pretty good receiver in a time where Tight Ends were typically used as run blockers Giles was part of a group of revolutionary tight ends, Kellen Winslow II, a current Buccaneer, is the son of Kellen Winslow who put up numbers akin to Rob Gronkowski during the 1980s. The Bucs have also have guys like Keyshawn Johnson and Joey Galloway, who may not have been elite but were incredibly good receivers who produced good numbers during their time in Tampa. The problem for Tampa is they never really had an outstanding group of Wide receivers at one time. The Super Bowl Winning team contained one of the more solid ones. Keenan McCardell, Joe Jurevicius (Gene Deckerhoff's commentary of Joe's 71 yard catch and run against the Eagles in 2002 NFC Championship game is the stuff legends are made of!) and Keyshawn Johnson formed a very solid stable of receivers and are certainly up there with Bucs' best Wide Receiving Cores.

The current group have the potential to exceed previous groups though. Vincent Jackson is a very good wide receiver. Even if he doesn't produce great stats, he should draw enough coverage to help out Mike Williams, Arrelious Benn, Preston Parker and Desmon Briscoe. (Briscoe may be in trouble soon, he has failed to turn up at some recent camps and OTAs, I don't know if Coach Schiano will like this) There is also Sammie Stroughter, a great return man and decent slot receiver, while Tyler Shoemaker ("The Cobbler") an undrafted Free Agent should compete for a spot and Tiquan Underwood formerly of the Patriots is another option. Add in Kellen Winslow, who struggled last year, he has lost some speed and looked unable to create much separation unless he pushed off, as well as two very good running backs LeGarette Blount and Doug "Muscle Hamster" Martin and you have a heck of an offence. Freeman should have plenty of time with Carl Nicks, Davin Joseph and Donald Penn protecting him. Freeman can do nothing about the defence but he certainly needs to have a solid season on offence. He has enough weapons to win and put points on the board. He needs the defence to help him out; surely it will improve from last season. Freeman will need a 6 or more win season and a positive TD:Int ratio, close to 2:1 or better to guarantee his spot next season. Otherwise, it might be time for the Bucs to move in a new direction.

That's it guys, have at it!

http://v2journal.com/buc-ball-is-free-the-man-in-tampa.html

good read, I think Freeman has to improve next season or he may be gone

Next year is a contract year, Cosell did a great piece on him and Bradford http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/05/22/cosell-talks-sam-bradford-josh-freeman/?module=HP11_cp Soudns like he is trying to correct soem of his footwork. With Josh's OC being Eli's QB coach, I think he can come on a lot.

Thomond wrote:Next year is a contract year, Cosell did a great piece on him and Bradford http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/05/22/cosell-talks-sam-bradford-josh-freeman/?module=HP11_cp Soudns like he is trying to correct soem of his footwork. With Josh's OC being Eli's QB coach, I think he can come on a lot.

Was going to post the Cosell article but you beat me to it. The times I watched Freeman last season it seemed like he made some bad decisions about where he was throwing the ball and the difficulties he's had reading the defense which Cosell notes ties in whth that.

If he plays the same as last year despite the new additions they could be looking for a new QB in the next draft, but better O-line and improved receivers and running game should help him if not their next QB will be stepping into a pretty good set up.

I don't think the O-line is as good as advertised either, they need to do a better job too from highlights I've seen

With Nicks there, Penn improving (needs to stop gaining weight during the year), the Bucs bringing in Zuttah, and Joseph, it should come on a hell of a lot. Blount had to beat 2 guys to get to the LOS at times last year!

Nicks will improve the line a lot ,agree that Penn looked bad, sort of like Mckinnie

True story: I used to be a huge Penn fan.

Then, while bored, I started breaking down Bucs gamefilm, for my own satisfaction more than anything. In doing so, my eyes were opened to how overrated Penn is.

Now, I'm not saying Penn is terrible, he is serviceable, but that is it - he is serviceable at best. His main problem is his weight, which all Buc fans know increases as the season goes on. But the problem is that, at the start of the season, he's already at the point where his weight is effecting his mobility. He rarely gets into a full three-point stance, regardless of whether it's a run play or a pass play - and I truly believe that's because he's so fat, he can't get out of a three-point stance quick enough.

He is terrible as a driveblocker. He almost always drops back and waits for the defensive lineman to come to him, rather than going to the guy and blocking him. You cannot get the kind of push you need to blow defenders out of running lanes if you wait for them to come to you. I know that, when Penn featured on the Top 100 this year, Freeman was saying that there's a run play that the Bucs run, right behind Penn. You might think this contradicts what I'm saying. In fact, it doesn't at all. The play almost works like a draw - Penn's so bad, that when he drop backs like he always does, regardless of run or pass, the defensive lineman tries to go outside him, allowing the RB to cut up inside. I'm sorry, but he's a complete one-trick pony in the run game.

In fact, I think every DC in the league has missed a HUGE trick when it comes to Penn. Penn has always considered to be better against the pass than the run, which is true, and there is one thing he does very, very well as a pass-protector, which is handle the spin move. There are very few tackles in the league who can handle the spin move as well as Penn does - he even handles Dwight Freeney's fearsome spin, as best as I've seen anyone do so. He's also got pretty good feet for a fatty (used a term of endearment for all linemen, rather than pejorative), so he's good at cutting of pass rusher's outside moves.

But what about the inside moves? That's the thing. Penn struggles HUGELY in dealing with the inside rush (he also is a pushover against the bullrush, but quite frankly, I'm shocked that DCs didn't pick up on the inside move thing more). While his footwork is good, he struggles in change of direction - if I'm a DE going against Penn, then I'm faking to the outside then juking inside and I've got a clear shot at the QB every time.

However, Penn is a lucky sonofa, so he is. He's now got pretty much the best interior lineman in the league on his inside. Even if DCs, this past offseason, started to recognise on tape just how susceptible Penn is to inside pass-rush moves, Carl Nicks will be able to pick up Penn's slack - in fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of the reasons the Bucs made such a push for Carl Nicks is that the new coaching staff realised how much of a liability Penn is and recognised that if they didn't get someone of a Nicks calibre to play inside him, it was only a matter of time before Freeman got killed.

Now that Carl Nicks is in the fold, though, Penn's weak inside is protected by the best, leaving him free to handle the outside moves that he does undeniably do well. This means Penn's play will seem a lot more solid than it actually is, which will probably result in a few more Pro Bowl appearances for Penn - look at what playing next to Nicks did for the incredibly average Jermon Bushrod, after all.

If the Bucs are savvy, they could make out like bandits. Draft a high-ceiling, high-potential offensive tackle in the second or third round next year. Let him man right tackle for a year or two, what with Trueblood being in the final year of his contract. Once the tackle has familiarised himself with the speed and the complexity of the NFL, shift him to left tackle. Penn will have, I believe, two years left on his contract by then, and no doubt will have those extra Pro Bowls to his name, thanks to Nicks. The Bucs will be able to get a high, high return for trading Penn, upgrading the left tackle position and having a few extra early-round picks, too.


Oh, and Freeman will be absolutely fine. The OP brought up the Roethlisberger comparison, and I completely agree 100%

Last season was Freeman's third in the league. Big Ben's stats for his third season? 18 TDs, 23 INTs, a completion percentage of under 60%, and a QB rating of 75.4 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)

Freeman last year: 16 TDs, 22 INTs, completion percentage of 62.8% (a career high for him), QB rating of 74.6 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FreeJo00.htm)

Like Roethlisberger, Freeman struggled in his third season. But I have no doubt whatsoever that Freeman will be able to bounce back and have the same level of success as Big Ben. But hopefully with less molestation and raping.

Gur, nice analysis of Penn, we've missed you around here. Did a full analysis of the Bucs draft that should be on here too. I really don't know about Free, he has atrocious footwork and has problems reading defences. He will get bailed out with the receivers and RBs he has so he doesn't even have to be that good. He seems to be putting in a lot of work at least so he needs to improve

GurTPL wrote:Oh, and Freeman will be absolutely fine. The OP brought up the Roethlisberger comparison, and I completely agree 100%

Last season was Freeman's third in the league. Big Ben's stats for his third season? 18 TDs, 23 INTs, a completion percentage of under 60%, and a QB rating of 75.4 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm)

Freeman last year: 16 TDs, 22 INTs, completion percentage of 62.8% (a career high for him), QB rating of 74.6 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FreeJo00.htm)

Like Roethlisberger, Freeman struggled in his third season. But I have no doubt whatsoever that Freeman will be able to bounce back and have the same level of success as Big Ben. But hopefully with less molestation and raping.

Slight difference is by his third season Big Ben was already a Super Bowl champion and had been to the AFC championship game the season before.

To be fair on Freeman, the Steelers had far better pieces in place then Freeman had in his frst few years.

^^ agreed. Roethlisberger had Dick LeBeau's defense on the other side of the ball. Freeman had Raheem Morris. Remember, if the Bucs had been able to stop the Lions' final drive in the fourth quarter of the 2010 game, TB win 20-17 and make the playoffs in place of the Packers - and who knows what might have happened then? (True, probably not a Super Bowl, but we'll never know)

Freeman definitely has had a tendency to throw of the backfoot, no question, and that needs to be fixed - but the good news is that it is definitely fixable. As for reading defenses, it is true that he struggled more with that in 2011 - but I'd say that at least part of that was Greg Olson's shocking play calling, which was so damn obvious that it gave defenses huge advantages. And while that doesn't in any way redeem Freeman's mistakes, it definitely didn't help. Still, Mike Sullivan did wonders with Eli last season.

I will say that if Freeman struggles this year, I don't think he's done in Tampa at all - and he may well struggle (remember, Eli led the league in picks the first year that Sullivan was his QB coach, although he obviously had a phenomenal season under Sullivan's tuition this year). But the team will probably bring in a vet QB in FA, and have a genuine camp battle between them, with both sides being given an equal opportunity to win the starting job. If Freeman fails to win the job, then we'll probably shop him around towards the end of the preseason, but unless we get a good offer, I think we'd probably keep him as a back up to whoever wins the starting job, let him walk in FA in 2014, and draft a QB early in the draft.

Still, unless we get a very good offer in the 2013 preseason, I don't see us parting ways with him while he's still under contract, not matter how bad a 2012 campaign he has. The fact is, though, that Raheem Morris ran such an undisciplined team that Freeman probably did take his foot off the gas, as they say across the pond. If he attacks his craft with the same dedication and effort that he did between his first and second seasons, when there were reports that he never left OBP, spending his whole offseason in the film room, then I really don't have too many concerns about Freeman at this point.