Carl Froch says he is a Hall-of-Famer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/18252456

"Not taking anything away from Joe Calzaghe, but Jeff Lacy was massively overrated - Jermain Taylor used Jeff Lacy for a warm-up fight before fighting me [in 2009] and Taylor didn't see the final bell in my fight," said Froch.
"Jeff Lacy couldn't cut it at world level and Joe Calzaghe exposed him for what he was. But Lucian Bute is a great fighter, was unbeaten in 30 fights with 24 knockouts.
"When people look back on my career, I want them to say: 'There's a fighter that fought everybody. Look at his record - yes, he got beat, but he came back to win a third world title. Carl Froch is a Hall-of-Famer, a legend, and we've got so much respect for him'.
"I'll go down in the history books and I'll be remembered forever and ever, unlike other fighters - and I'm not going to mention any names - who have got undefeated records or retire undefeated, and you say to yourself: 'Who did he box? He didn't box him, he swerved him, he boxed him when he was well past his best'.
"The '0' doesn't mean a great deal. In one fight I've gone from being the underdog, finished, on the verge of retirement to the cream of the crop, the main man. But I already knew it."


Regards

Steffan

His record is better than that of Calzaghe, of that there can be no question.

Union Cane wrote:His record is better than that of Calzaghe, of that there can be no question.

Well Calzaghe wont go down in the history books and be remembered forever and ever...

Froch has been punched too often. He should be more humble and stop b!tching about JC. Let it go Carl.

Ah now I remember why I think hes a bit of a plank.. I'm sure Mr Ward would have something to say about Froch being cream of the crop.

Hey! He had three full days of great PR. It's a start. Of course he was goign to slip, he is an addict. Ha

The Lucian Bute win for me is on par with the Lacy win, a dangerous but untested champion exposed at a higher lever, the only difference is that Lacy could take a punch. Froch, for me, still needs to beat a top tier super mid when he has stepped into that league he has been defeated by Kessler and Ward.

Pound-for-Pound wrote:The Lucian Bute win for me is on par with the Lacy win, a dangerous but untested champion exposed at a higher lever, the only difference is that Lacy could take a punch. Froch, for me, still needs to beat a top tier super mid when he has stepped into that league he has been defeated by Kessler and Ward.

He will defeat Kessler, I reckon.

Pound-for-Pound wrote:The Lucian Bute win for me is on par with the Lacy win, a dangerous but untested champion exposed at a higher lever, the only difference is that Lacy could take a punch. Froch, for me, still needs to beat a top tier super mid when he has stepped into that league he has been defeated by Kessler and Ward.

I knew this would happen, the old "Bute was rubbish anyway" brigade.

Deary me.

Union Cane wrote:

Pound-for-Pound wrote:The Lucian Bute win for me is on par with the Lacy win, a dangerous but untested champion exposed at a higher lever, the only difference is that Lacy could take a punch. Froch, for me, still needs to beat a top tier super mid when he has stepped into that league he has been defeated by Kessler and Ward.

I knew this would happen, the old "Bute was rubbish anyway" brigade.

Deary me.

He isn't rubbish, he was a top amateur and a world champion, he just isn't a top tier fighter.

Union Cane wrote:

Pound-for-Pound wrote:The Lucian Bute win for me is on par with the Lacy win, a dangerous but untested champion exposed at a higher lever, the only difference is that Lacy could take a punch. Froch, for me, still needs to beat a top tier super mid when he has stepped into that league he has been defeated by Kessler and Ward.

I knew this would happen, the old "Bute was rubbish anyway" brigade.

Deary me.

He could turn out to be rubbish though. We won't know till he makes some sort of comeback but its rare you see a decent champ being blown away like that.

Union Cane wrote:

Pound-for-Pound wrote:The Lucian Bute win for me is on par with the Lacy win, a dangerous but untested champion exposed at a higher lever, the only difference is that Lacy could take a punch. Froch, for me, still needs to beat a top tier super mid when he has stepped into that league he has been defeated by Kessler and Ward.

I knew this would happen, the old "Bute was rubbish anyway" brigade.

Deary me.

I know, it's not like 8 others have pancaked him is it.

I want Bute to come back and chalk up some wins so this rubbish stops. Boxing fans are the most reactionary on earth, Boxingscene and Eastside were a wash with embarrassing comments by people who first, predicted Bute would wipe the floor with Froch and then, called him a bum the day after. Hilarious.

Rubbish is a bit harsh but he seems a bit fragile to be considered top class.

paperbag_puncher wrote:

Union Cane wrote:

Pound-for-Pound wrote:The Lucian Bute win for me is on par with the Lacy win, a dangerous but untested champion exposed at a higher lever, the only difference is that Lacy could take a punch. Froch, for me, still needs to beat a top tier super mid when he has stepped into that league he has been defeated by Kessler and Ward.

I knew this would happen, the old "Bute was rubbish anyway" brigade.

Deary me.

He could turn out to be rubbish though. We won't know till he makes some sort of comeback but its rare you see a decent champ being blown away like that.

I think Union's point is it is one fight and nobody knows what he will come back as. So why write him off?

paperbag_puncher wrote:Rubbish is a bit harsh but he seems a bit fragile to be considered top class.

Well we all put him at number two in the 606v2 rankings, so more fool us.

I'm not writing him off but i cant definitely say he won't turn out to be rubbish.

I was very impressed with him up to the Froch fight and thought he'd win easily. Not afraid to admit I was wrong and reassess my opinion of him. He's clearly not rubbish but hes clearly not as good as I thought he was either.

paperbag_puncher wrote:I'm not writing him off but i cant definitely say he won't turn out to be rubbish.

I was very impressed with him up to the Froch fight and thought he'd win easily. Not afraid to admit I was wrong and reassess my opinion of him. He's clearly not rubbish but hes clearly not as good as I thought he was either.

That's balanced. What wwe do know now, is he has huge issues avoiding flurries of punches. He was touted to fight Pascal, but Froch was bale to effectively launch and ambush him, whihc is Pascal's bread and butter. Needs to do something about that

No one has said Bute is rubbish anyway

Just obviously not as good as we all thought

Steffan wrote:No one has said Bute is rubbish anyway

Just obviously not as good as we all thought

Loods of people have, maybe not on this forum, but tons.

Kelly Pavlik has called out Froch after this win and said he'd come to england for the fight. If it happens who wins and how?

Everything Bute's done up to this point he's done with power, speed, poise, movement and accuracy. He hit without being hit, hit hard and often. He still has all those attributes and had them when Carl wrecked him.

Who knows, Froch might simply be the one guy who truly has his number. I honetly don't see Ward (whom I now rate massively now we've seen exactly what it was he contained for 12 rounds) hadling Bute quite so easily given his less than explosive power and more safety first, spoiling style.

As for Froch saying he's a hall of famer: Yep. He is. Can't see Calzaghe coming back to fight him though. Anyone see Socceraid? He must be a heavyweight.

Bute reminded me alot of Paulie Malignaggi, he appears to be slick, tricky and hard to catch until he meets a top fighter and all his natural attributes just appear to be not quite good enough.

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Kelly Pavlik has called out Froch after this win and said he'd come to england for the fight. If it happens who wins and how?

Froch by UD. Iv never rated Pavlik even before he became a national bottle bank

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Kelly Pavlik has called out Froch after this win and said he'd come to england for the fight. If it happens who wins and how?

Froch by UD. Pavlik has a great one - two when he uses it, but stepping up to 168 I think Froch would win, if he could bring the same intesity to his attacks that he did against Bute.

Strangely enough though, I am not that interested in this. Pavlik has been beaten twice already and at lower weight. Froch would not get credit if he won and Pavlik has done nothign at SM to deserve shot. Pavlik should look to target Bute if anything. Bute wins that and he can rebuild, Pavlik wins, he has a name at SM and a genuine claim to a title shot.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Kelly Pavlik has called out Froch after this win and said he'd come to england for the fight. If it happens who wins and how?

Froch by UD. Pavlik has a great one - two when he uses it, but stepping up to 168 I think Froch would win, if he could bring the same intesity to his attacks that he did against Bute.

Strangely enough though, I am not that interested in this. Pavlik has been beated twice already and at lower weight. Froch would not get credit if he won and Pavlik has done nothign at SM to deserve shot. Pavlik should look to target Bute if anything. Bute wins that and he can rebuild, Pavlik wins, he has a name at SM and a genuine claim to a title shot.

Bute won't fight a puncher in his next couple of fights.

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Bute reminded me alot of Paulie Malignaggi, he appears to be slick, tricky and hard to catch until he meets a top fighter and all his natural attributes just appear to be not quite good enough.

Cant knock Paulie's durability or ability to take a punch. What I was so taken back by was that Bute looked like he'd never been punched before. Every punch shook him and he looked lost.

Pound-for-Pound wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Kelly Pavlik has called out Froch after this win and said he'd come to england for the fight. If it happens who wins and how?

Froch by UD. Pavlik has a great one - two when he uses it, but stepping up to 168 I think Froch would win, if he could bring the same intesity to his attacks that he did against Bute.

Strangely enough though, I am not that interested in this. Pavlik has been beated twice already and at lower weight. Froch would not get credit if he won and Pavlik has done nothign at SM to deserve shot. Pavlik should look to target Bute if anything. Bute wins that and he can rebuild, Pavlik wins, he has a name at SM and a genuine claim to a title shot.

Bute won't fight a puncher in his next couple of fights.

I expect he will fight a can for next one, and then a glorified can. But Pavlik in Montreal next year would be a perfect "builder" fight. Pavlik is dangerous but very ploddy, Bute would be testing his chin again against a guy he might be able to comfortably outbox and Pavlik would always be in it due tothe snap in his shots. Not next, but Bute V Pavlik in spring after Bute gets some warm ups. Possible.

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Kelly Pavlik has called out Froch after this win and said he'd come to england for the fight. If it happens who wins and how?

Has he left rehab yet? Its a good fight for Froch to take. He sell in USA and will be an easy fight for Carl.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Pound-for-Pound wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Kelly Pavlik has called out Froch after this win and said he'd come to england for the fight. If it happens who wins and how?

Froch by UD. Pavlik has a great one - two when he uses it, but stepping up to 168 I think Froch would win, if he could bring the same intesity to his attacks that he did against Bute.

Strangely enough though, I am not that interested in this. Pavlik has been beated twice already and at lower weight. Froch would not get credit if he won and Pavlik has done nothign at SM to deserve shot. Pavlik should look to target Bute if anything. Bute wins that and he can rebuild, Pavlik wins, he has a name at SM and a genuine claim to a title shot.

Bute won't fight a puncher in his next couple of fights.

I expect he will fight a can for next one, and then a glorified can. But Pavlik in Montreal next year would be a perfect "builder" fight. Pavlik is dangerous but very ploddy, Bute would be testing his chin again against a guy he might be able to comfortably outbox and Pavlik would always be in it due tothe snap in his shots. Not next, but Bute V Pavlik in spring after Bute gets some warm ups. Possible.

Will Froch still be around by then?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/18252456

Eubank was before my era, can't comment as much on him, I've certainly got more respect for Froch over Calzaghe, but does his record really stand up?

Froch in his real big fights has come up short in my opinion, (Kessler,Ward) but I've got so much respect for him because he won't duck anyone and he'll just go out there and fight the best when their at their best, something which sure can't be said of Calzaghe in my opinion. Froch best wins - Abraham, Dirrell, Taylor, Bute.

Calzaghe in my opinion carefully picked his opponents, I think his best career wins were against Kessler (prime) and Eubank. As the article kind of suggests, his victory over Lacy is similar to Froch over Bute. His sham victory over a long past it RJJ doesn't count, and I firmly believe he lost to Hopkins. So I actually think Froch has fought more live, dangerous opponents, and also has a more commendable mentality than Calzaghe.

I'm going to have to merge this, mate. Already linked elsewhere.

Not sold on Froch as Britain's best SM. I would pick Eubank, Calzaghe and watson above him at least. Aside from Bute who is unproven at top level the biggest names on his record are his defeats (Kessler and Ward). We all know Taylor is damaged goods, Abraham's style was not suited to fighting guys his own size, Dirrell victory was questionable, Pascal was beaten more convincingly by Hopkins and Glen Johnson is nearing his 70th birthday now.

Union Cane wrote:His record is better than that of Calzaghe, of that there can be no question.

I wouldnt really agree. Hes fought the relevant fighters in a quicker time frame but he hasnt had the same success Calzaghe has had against them.

Eubank, Reid, Mitchell, Brewer, Lacy, Bika, Kessler, Hopkins with no defeats I think is better than Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell, Abraham, Johnson and Bute with defeats to Ward and Kessler.

Calzaghe prevailed when he came up against Kessler and Hopkins, Froch didnt when he met Kessler and Ward.

Could also throw in that Calzaghe established himself as the best fighter in two weight classes. Froch hasnt even done that in one as of yet.

mark_england wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/18252456

Eubank was before my era, can't comment as much on him, I've certainly got more respect for Froch over Calzaghe, but does his record really stand up?

Froch in his real big fights has come up short in my opinion, (Kessler,Ward) but I've got so much respect for him because he won't duck anyone and he'll just go out there and fight the best when their at their best, something which sure can't be said of Calzaghe in my opinion. Froch best wins - Abraham, Dirrell, Taylor, Bute.

Calzaghe in my opinion carefully picked his opponents, I think his best career wins were against Kessler (prime) and Eubank. As the article kind of suggests, his victory over Lacy is similar to Froch over Bute. His sham victory over a long past it RJJ doesn't count, and I firmly believe he lost to Hopkins. So I actually think Froch has fought more live, dangerous opponents, and also has a more commendable mentality than Calzaghe.

You can firmly believe what you want but JC won that on work rate, close for sure but JC won that fight. Not sure you can class the Dirrell fight as one of Frochs best wins either, that fight stunk and was a lot closer than it should of been, Froch being lucky it was in Nottingham as anywhere else and he loses that fight.

Bute to Froch is what Lacy is to Calzaghe both world class performances for different reasons and both one of the best wins in their respective careers. Your post just sounds like you have dislike for Calzaghe and a man love for Froch infact.

Ha ha yes. I posted my 10 pennies worth on the Beeb website!

One thing is funny. The comments that have plus ratings (mine included) tend to be of the "Carl Froch is talking cobblers" variety and the ones with minus ratings tend to be more agreeing with Froch. That indicates a clear feeling with the masses that Froch is talking through another hole, either that or Froch still suffers a genuine lack of popularity.

hampo171 wrote:Your post just sounds like you have dislike for Calzaghe and a man love for Froch infact

Thats the norm on here nowadays though aint it

Froch best wins

Taylor
Pascal
Bute
Abraham

Calzaghe best wins

Kessler
Hopkins
Lacy - ruined after Calzaghe
Eubanks

Joe edges it

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Froch best wins

Taylor
Pascal
Bute
Abraham

Calzaghe best wins

Kessler
Hopkins
Lacy - ruined after Calzaghe
Eubanks

Froch needs to avenge both Kessler and Ward. If he does this then as someone who likes JC but has a fairly strong disliking for Froch, I will accept that Froch has the better accomplishments.

Super D Boon wrote:as someone who likes JC but has a fairly strong disliking for Froch

So it was you who kept trashing Frochs car in Sheffield then

Steffan wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:as someone who likes JC but has a fairly strong disliking for Froch

So it was you who kept trashing Frochs car in Sheffield then

I tipped off the Police and told them it was another Froch hater and forum contributor called Steffan. But don't worry, there must be a million Steffans!

I think Calzaghe for me would still be classed above Froch,the Kessler and Lacy performances were outstanding,lets be fair the yankees brought Lacy over to do a number on Joe and got the biggest shock of their lives.

I think the only critiscism I have of Joe is he left it too late to travel to the US to chase the big fights, whether that's Joe or his management team I don't know.

If Froch reversed both decisions with Kessler and Ward you would have to review who has the better CV, but Ward's a cut above everything in the division so highly unlikely.

Super D Boon wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:as someone who likes JC but has a fairly strong disliking for Froch

So it was you who kept trashing Frochs car in Sheffield then

I tipped off the Police and told them it was another Froch hater and forum contributor called Steffan. But don't worry, there must be a million Steffans!

Well Froch did say 'Its probably a Calzaghe fan, probably someone from Wales' so the Police already narrowed it down to 3 million people but now you tipped them off im gonna have to run and hide where all vehicle thiefs and trashers go.........Nottingham

I've warmed to froch over time, and have the utmost respect for the run of tough fights he's taken...although he was contractually obliged to take a chunk of them through the super 6. However, comments like the ones he's made here, make amir khan seem a paragon of humility.

Time will tell us whether bute is another lacy or not. Personally, i always thought it a possibility, and was surprised that the bookies had him favourite.

I'm english and was critical of calzaghe sitting in wales taking the easy paydays until too late in his career... and then cherry picking a few pensioned off greats to make his cv look better. However, regardless of resumes, in my view he was a better fighter than froch and would beat him fairly convincingly.

milkyboy wrote:and then cherry picking a few pensioned off greats to make his cv look better

Il agree with you on the Roy Jones one it was a totally pointless fight and this is coming from someone who was there but to go to America and fight Hopkins who was the linear champion at Light-Heavyweight and had just come of the back of wins over Tarver and Winky and then after Calzaghe went on to beat Pavlik and Pascal...thats hardly a 'cherry picked opponent' is it?

In my opinion if you compare their records, then Froch wins hands down. However one on one, Calzaghe would school him.

In what way is Frochs record better?

In terms of opponents beaten, there might not be much in it. Frochs top 5 wins measure up quite well but struggle to see how Pascal, Taylor Abraham, Johnson, Dirrell and Bute are far better than Eubank, Reid, Mitchell, Lacy, Bika, Kessler and Hopkins.

But crucially, Calzaghe managed to beat all of them whereas Froch came up short against Kessler and Ward. Something that Calzaghe didnt in his career.

As harsh as it sounds, Froch has never actually become the top guy in his weight class and has lost to the two best guys he faced. Calzaghe, for all the criticisms over unambitious match making, failure to take more risks etc still proved beyond any doubt he was the top in his division, unified the titles and went on to claim the Ring title in another division against a genuine all time great.

Steffan wrote:

milkyboy wrote:and then cherry picking a few pensioned off greats to make his cv look better

Il agree with you on the Roy Jones one it was a totally pointless fight and this is coming from someone who was there but to go to America and fight Hopkins who was the linear champion at Light-Heavyweight and had just come of the back of wins over Tarver and Winky and then after Calzaghe went on to beat Pavlik and Pascal...thats hardly a 'cherry picked opponent' is it?

and i thought i was giving you some rare moral support steffan

The other take on bernie was:... 2 losses to taylor, whose level had already become apparent against pavlik. The win over tarver which was considered a great win over the man that beat roy jones, until you saw just how far jones had slipped, and considered how bad tarver actually was against bhop. Then winning a stinker against an aging winky, great fighter but career light middle. As it goes, hopkins performance afterwards against pavlik did more to give credit to jc's performance than those before. Not saying it was ever an easy fight on paper, it was hopkins after all, but it didn't look a terrible time to get him... you'd rather fight him in his 40's than in his 30's.

Its not just who he beat, its where he beat them. I am a Calzaghe fan as well.

Just in my opinion but I would rate a win higher if you go to someone else's back yard to do it.

Beating Hopkins in the U.S for the Ring Light heavyweight title is surely better than any win Froch has?

Froch has only really beaten Taylor in his back yard.

I feel Jc would have beaten him easier the earlier it was. His age kept him from attacking a little more and that was his saving grace. Also, they had agreed an earlier fight and it seems Hopkins didnt fancy it. Upping his demand and not fighting for just under a year - and that for peanuts. I think Jay Larkin of Showtime said something to that effect too.