Poor Jo
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Tennis
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Poor Jo
Well Tennis is a terrifically cruel game and that I suppose it is one of the reasons we enjoy it. It was really moving for me to watch Tsonga sitting there in his seat with the towels thrown over his head and with the french crowd chanting his name just after he lost trying to give their fallen hero a pick up after a classic match. Tsonga probably beats anyone not named Djokovic or Nadal on this day that was how high his level was especially in sets 3 and 4. I felt Novak was playing relatively well but whenever pressed Tsonga like some vegas magician who has to awe you one last time would pull out some jaw dropping stuff. For Novak he was not only fighting an inspired opponent, but a stadium, a city, and a nation or at least it must have seemed that way to him as this match transformed into something akin to riotous Davis Cup match.
That moment at the end of the match one could really see into Tsonga's heart and mind, and I couldn't help but feel that this was a scarring defeat. In some ways as bad or worse than his final loss to Djoko. This was his home, his people, and while in Australia he never really was in that match here had Djokovic in a near stranglehold. There were a lot of positives for Tsonga. He took the number one to the brink on his worst surface. He played a classic match. But in the end it had to be crushing to lose it, and to lose it that way. As a Novak fan I am happy he won it, but certainly I did feel for Tsonga at the end of the match. These are the kind of losses that haunt your memories and well I hope he has his day soon.
That moment at the end of the match one could really see into Tsonga's heart and mind, and I couldn't help but feel that this was a scarring defeat. In some ways as bad or worse than his final loss to Djoko. This was his home, his people, and while in Australia he never really was in that match here had Djokovic in a near stranglehold. There were a lot of positives for Tsonga. He took the number one to the brink on his worst surface. He played a classic match. But in the end it had to be crushing to lose it, and to lose it that way. As a Novak fan I am happy he won it, but certainly I did feel for Tsonga at the end of the match. These are the kind of losses that haunt your memories and well I hope he has his day soon.
socal1976- Posts : 14212
Join date : 2011-03-18
Location : southern california
Re: Poor Jo
Tsonga played a brilliant match, but could not close the door. So did Del Potro.
Seppi also played really well and had Djokovic on the rack.
USO 2010, 2011 and now RG 2012, Djokovic has come back to win from being MPs down at a slam.
He has two potentially tough matches to play.
To recover from such losses is the destiny of players in the highest echelons of the game. I disagree that this is a scarring defeat.
Tennis is a cruel mistress, she always has the final say in her choices.
We can refer back to this match at RG 2012, as we do the USO 2010/2011.
Someone did say that professional sport is not good for public health, but some fantastic memories it does provide.
Seppi also played really well and had Djokovic on the rack.
USO 2010, 2011 and now RG 2012, Djokovic has come back to win from being MPs down at a slam.
He has two potentially tough matches to play.
To recover from such losses is the destiny of players in the highest echelons of the game. I disagree that this is a scarring defeat.
Tennis is a cruel mistress, she always has the final say in her choices.
We can refer back to this match at RG 2012, as we do the USO 2010/2011.
Someone did say that professional sport is not good for public health, but some fantastic memories it does provide.
laverfan- Moderator
- Posts : 11252
Join date : 2011-04-07
Location : NoVA, USoA
Re: Poor Jo
I never saw this match due to work but I'd agree with laverfan. I wouldn't think it is a scarring defeat for Tsonga for a couple of reasons. Clay is not his favourite surface and so to push the world No.1 so very closely it will give him renewed optimism after a few disappointing exits at slams. It is also suggested that Tsonga ran out of gas after some lengthy matches here so he can't and won't beat himself up to much I don't think. He'll find plenty to take heart from.
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 56
Location : Edinburgh
Re: Poor Jo
Not sure I have the same sympathy for Jo like so many might. I think the only element I guess I could would be with the home support and how it went flat when the door closed on the 4th set.
Tsonga like Federer and Murray before him did not take the incentive and go on and continue attacking. Take the MP's. Tsonga you could tell thought he had done all the hard work to earn those BP's and decided to go passive when he should know from Federer's experience that Novak when cornered will come out fighting. It yielded the same result.
With Tsonga it will always be like a cavalier like performance. Like a muskateer. He will live and die by that sword. Rays of brilliance met with ugly park play.
Never did I ever feel Tsonga was in control of the match. Unfortunately his game will never allow for discipline to use strategy to win a match. Whilst instinct can be hard to ignore, it is great to watch.
Tsonga said before the tournament that a Frenchman would not win RG and he is right. What makes the statement so bold and brave is because he is right. Had the encounter been on Hardcourt, then maybe Tsonga may have just thought about tactics a little bit.
Tsonga like Federer and Murray before him did not take the incentive and go on and continue attacking. Take the MP's. Tsonga you could tell thought he had done all the hard work to earn those BP's and decided to go passive when he should know from Federer's experience that Novak when cornered will come out fighting. It yielded the same result.
With Tsonga it will always be like a cavalier like performance. Like a muskateer. He will live and die by that sword. Rays of brilliance met with ugly park play.
Never did I ever feel Tsonga was in control of the match. Unfortunately his game will never allow for discipline to use strategy to win a match. Whilst instinct can be hard to ignore, it is great to watch.
Tsonga said before the tournament that a Frenchman would not win RG and he is right. What makes the statement so bold and brave is because he is right. Had the encounter been on Hardcourt, then maybe Tsonga may have just thought about tactics a little bit.
Guest- Guest
Re: Poor Jo
I dont feel sorry for Tsonga (not a particular fan of his anyway)
He had the same problem as Seppi... had a "lame" animal if front of him for nearly three sets and couldn´t kill it off. How often do we see this against the big three... Its no good playing good tennis if they cannot play the shots that REALLY matter. If you can win whilst playing badly and your oponent lets you then enough said.
So sorry Jo Im not sorry for you, you had your chances and muffed it.
He had the same problem as Seppi... had a "lame" animal if front of him for nearly three sets and couldn´t kill it off. How often do we see this against the big three... Its no good playing good tennis if they cannot play the shots that REALLY matter. If you can win whilst playing badly and your oponent lets you then enough said.
So sorry Jo Im not sorry for you, you had your chances and muffed it.
Haddie-nuff- Posts : 6936
Join date : 2011-02-27
Location : Returned to Spain
Re: Poor Jo
I'm not sorry for Jo either. Before the match I said he doesn't always take important matches as seriously as he should. It often appears as if he's content just to be part of a big occasion and have some fun especially if he can get the crowd involved. I think he did that and will be feeling quite good.
hawkeye- Posts : 5427
Join date : 2011-06-12
Re: Poor Jo
Everything you do in life can be 'scarring' if you let it...sure Tsonga will hurt for a week. But then he'll start to remember just how well he played, how 3 out of 4 MPs were beyond his control, and that will liberate and carry him forwards. At the end of the day even if he had won he then likely had Federer, then Nadal...and so it was unlikely he would win the title anyway.
lydian- Posts : 9178
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Poor Jo
Watching the replay. 6-1 4-3. Eighth game. Two errors from Djokovic (as Tsonga pelts the ball hard) and a brilliant DHBH, and back on server. Jo converts the very first BP that he gets. Now Jo starts pushing harder. Djokovic looks very miffed at the lack of crowd support. The tide now turns for this and the next set. Tsonga plays a brilliant 11th game, despite deuce. Tsonga, again, plays a brilliant and erratic 12th game to get the set on his third SP.
Have to agree with you LK on 'Rays of brilliance met with ugly park play.'.
Have to agree with you LK on 'Rays of brilliance met with ugly park play.'.
laverfan- Moderator
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Join date : 2011-04-07
Location : NoVA, USoA
Re: Poor Jo
laverfan wrote:Watching the replay. 6-1 4-3. Eighth game. Two errors from Djokovic (as Tsonga pelts the ball hard) and a brilliant DHBH, and back on server. Jo converts the very first BP that he gets. Now Jo starts pushing harder. Djokovic looks very miffed at the lack of crowd support. The tide now turns for this and the next set. Tsonga plays a brilliant 11th game, despite deuce. Tsonga, again, plays a brilliant and erratic 12th game to get the set on his third SP.
Have to agree with you LK on 'Rays of brilliance met with ugly park play.'.
Thanks LF.
I think some of the shot selection was crazy. Especially when he came to the net and some of his overhead stuff was what learning junior's play!
His running FH however, lovely and so well disguised. He comes in gently and just puts it away with ease.
If I was a fan I would be tearing me hair out.
Guest- Guest
Re: Poor Jo
Well I thought Nole and JWT (after an awful first set) provided us with one of the most exciting GS matches I've seen. JWT has to attack and it's really a waste of time for people to get him to play more conservatively.
Yes, you are gonna have to put up with his UEs and the occasionally fairly mindless bits of play. But what you get as well is some wonderful attacking play.
JWT is never, IMHO, gonna be a top four guy because he lacks consistency and can chuck in an inexplicably awful game from time to time which is costly against those at the very top.
What he does offer is some of the most entertaining tennis you can see. Funnily enough, I never thought he was gonna win yesterday, even when he had two MPs in a row. Somehow I felt Djoko would get out of jail.
Yes, you are gonna have to put up with his UEs and the occasionally fairly mindless bits of play. But what you get as well is some wonderful attacking play.
JWT is never, IMHO, gonna be a top four guy because he lacks consistency and can chuck in an inexplicably awful game from time to time which is costly against those at the very top.
What he does offer is some of the most entertaining tennis you can see. Funnily enough, I never thought he was gonna win yesterday, even when he had two MPs in a row. Somehow I felt Djoko would get out of jail.
sirfredperry- Posts : 7076
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 74
Location : London
Re: Poor Jo
Massive credit to Novak for me. We saw it in the match points v Fed in New York, we saw it when staring defeat in the face against Murray and Nadal in Australia, and we saw it again yesterday.... He finds his top level when he's on the brink of defeat.
It is an incredible asset. I don't think he played that well for most of the match, but he has developed an iron will, a fearless approach when on the verge of defeat and an aura worthy of a world number one.
Only one of those match points could Tsonga really have won, the other 3 were taken away from him with some brilliant aggressive tennis. You really have to earn a victory against Novak, and he keeps on showing that he refuses to give up.
It is an incredible asset. I don't think he played that well for most of the match, but he has developed an iron will, a fearless approach when on the verge of defeat and an aura worthy of a world number one.
Only one of those match points could Tsonga really have won, the other 3 were taken away from him with some brilliant aggressive tennis. You really have to earn a victory against Novak, and he keeps on showing that he refuses to give up.
Danny_1982- Posts : 3233
Join date : 2011-06-01
Re: Poor Jo
Nah.... JWT never had a chance until the 2nd set he had it wrapped up in the middle three sets Djoko was all over the place... he lost the match when he had 2 mps against Djoko and muffed it.. (Champions know how to play the big points.) from then on it was Djoko´s to win Seppi demonstrated exactly the same thing in the previous match. So for me there is no sympathy for Tsonga
Haddie-nuff- Posts : 6936
Join date : 2011-02-27
Location : Returned to Spain
Re: Poor Jo
Yeah, he blew it on the 1st when he should have hit the ball directly at Djokovic. That wouldn't have come back.
Typical JWT really, and no need to try to improve on the assessment of "Rays of brilliance met with ugly park play". The brilliant bits really are good though.
Typical JWT really, and no need to try to improve on the assessment of "Rays of brilliance met with ugly park play". The brilliant bits really are good though.
bogbrush- Posts : 11169
Join date : 2011-04-13
Re: Poor Jo
Tsonga choked on the four matchpoints, so he deserved to lose them and the match consequently.
In pro tennis, especially with the insane mental capacities of the top dogs, you can't expect to get something easily, like Tsonga hoped at matchpoint. You need to really take on the ball.
In pro tennis, especially with the insane mental capacities of the top dogs, you can't expect to get something easily, like Tsonga hoped at matchpoint. You need to really take on the ball.
Chydremion- Posts : 495
Join date : 2011-11-08
Re: Poor Jo
No way did he choke on all four, maybe on the third of the four.
Henman Bill- Posts : 5265
Join date : 2011-12-04
Re: Poor Jo
Aww Come on HB the first two mp´s he was 40-15 up he muffed both of those
True Djoko played his way out of the other three. but he definitely muffed two for sure (he had fiive mps)
True Djoko played his way out of the other three. but he definitely muffed two for sure (he had fiive mps)
Haddie-nuff- Posts : 6936
Join date : 2011-02-27
Location : Returned to Spain
Re: Poor Jo
Henman Bill wrote:No way did he choke on all four, maybe on the third of the four.
I can't recall he actually flat out went for the points despite Djokovic handing him the opportunities to break.
Guest- Guest
Re: Poor Jo
The first two were definitely errors by Tsonga
Haddie-nuff- Posts : 6936
Join date : 2011-02-27
Location : Returned to Spain
Re: Poor Jo
Good article Socal. It is unfortunate that Jo lost after having those match points, but he should surely know the strength of Novak's will. Novak wants to win RG to make history, so Nole was going to do everything in his power to ensure that he stayed in the tournament. Novak already had the experience of fighting off matchpoints against Federer two years in a row at the US Open and felt confident that he could do it again. Tsonga could not fight that. That's how sport goes sometimes.
What was disappointing to me was the exodus of the majority of the members of the French Tennis Federation at the beginning of the fifth set. It was galling in the sense that this was the time that Tsonga could have used their support the most. It is to the Federation President's credit that he remained in the federation box until the end of the match, even though I knew there was only going to be one winner after Novak saved those matchpoints in the fourth set.
What was disappointing to me was the exodus of the majority of the members of the French Tennis Federation at the beginning of the fifth set. It was galling in the sense that this was the time that Tsonga could have used their support the most. It is to the Federation President's credit that he remained in the federation box until the end of the match, even though I knew there was only going to be one winner after Novak saved those matchpoints in the fourth set.
kemet- Posts : 902
Join date : 2011-04-02
Re: Poor Jo
Agree, that was abysmal...imagine if Tsonga saw that too - what message does that send to him in the fifth? They should have cheered and shouted even louder. Probably had the corporate tent to go visit for the free champagne buffet.kemet wrote: exodus of the majority of the members of the French Tennis Federation at the beginning of the fifth set
lydian- Posts : 9178
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Poor Jo
lydian wrote:Agree, that was abysmal...imagine if Tsonga saw that too - what message does that send to him in the fifth? They should have cheered and shouted even louder. Probably had the corporate tent to go visit for the free champagne buffet.kemet wrote: exodus of the majority of the members of the French Tennis Federation at the beginning of the fifth set
Shows that their principle of support is based on victory and nothing short.
Yes Tsonga dropped the 4th, but the match was very much even and I think not only losing the MP's and BP's and mini break in the TB was a kick in the gut, but also the main support leaving believing their man had little chance in the 5th.
Guest- Guest
Re: Poor Jo
That 4th set was as dominant for Tsonga as the 1st was for Novak clearly the match was finished after losing such a dominant set. Good on them for leaving I say Tsonga showed his lack of winner mentality and they saved themselves the last 20 minutes of the match.
Has anyone found decent highlights of that 4th set?
Has anyone found decent highlights of that 4th set?
Josiah Maiestas- Posts : 6700
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Age : 35
Location : Towel Island
Re: Poor Jo
Danny_1982 wrote:Massive credit to Novak for me. We saw it in the match points v Fed in New York, we saw it when staring defeat in the face against Murray and Nadal in Australia, and we saw it again yesterday.... He finds his top level when he's on the brink of defeat.
It is an incredible asset. I don't think he played that well for most of the match, but he has developed an iron will, a fearless approach when on the verge of defeat and an aura worthy of a world number one.
Only one of those match points could Tsonga really have won, the other 3 were taken away from him with some brilliant aggressive tennis. You really have to earn a victory against Novak, and he keeps on showing that he refuses to give up.
A great post by Danny again, I have to agree with that. The thing about those match points were that it wasn't like Tsonga blew them as much as Novak took them from him with some of his best play of the whole match. It was like he found an extra half gear on those points. Usually players play worse when facing defeat on a knife's edge, in the last 18 months or so Novak has developed into someone who saves his best for the biggest points and the biggest matches.
socal1976- Posts : 14212
Join date : 2011-03-18
Location : southern california
Re: Poor Jo
I am little surprised by the tone of everyone. I think Tsonga considering the surface and conditions and of course the opponent really overperfromed. I have never seen Tsonga hit that many incredible backhands, Djokovic was stunned at one point at how consistently and brilliantly Tsonga was striking it. It took a good performance from Novak to beat Jo today. People can talk about Novak being way off but it really wasn't like that.
Novak hit high sixties first serve percentage. Had more aces than TSonga, and less double faults. Novak hit more winners than errors by I think plus 11. He won 53 percent of points on second serve. And he moved around the court like his shorts were on fire. Tsonga beats anyone not named Nadal or Djoko last night. If you look at the numbers Novak didn't play that bad of a match, against Seppi he was just struggling to keep routine balls in play especially early in the match. That wasn't the case against Tsonga. He redlined his game in the middle part of the match and it was working till the very end.
Novak hit high sixties first serve percentage. Had more aces than TSonga, and less double faults. Novak hit more winners than errors by I think plus 11. He won 53 percent of points on second serve. And he moved around the court like his shorts were on fire. Tsonga beats anyone not named Nadal or Djoko last night. If you look at the numbers Novak didn't play that bad of a match, against Seppi he was just struggling to keep routine balls in play especially early in the match. That wasn't the case against Tsonga. He redlined his game in the middle part of the match and it was working till the very end.
socal1976- Posts : 14212
Join date : 2011-03-18
Location : southern california
Re: Poor Jo
Djokovic wasn't at his best while Tsonga was playing superb (for sets 2-4).
It took real champions spirit for Djokovic to come through!
It took real champions spirit for Djokovic to come through!
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