Where do todays Super Middleweights rate on this list?

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Where do todays Super Middleweights rate on this list?

This is an old article and its just before Calzaghe vs Kessler. Its by Ring magazine writer Steve Farhood.


Top Ten: Super Middleweight

Steve Farhood rates the leading fighters in the relatively short history of a division turned bigtime mainly to European boxers

A question that has puzzled philosophers dating back to Socrates, Confucius, Aristotle, and Don King: How can a division that has flaunted world titlists such as Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, Roy Jones, Iran Barkley and James Toney be dominated by fighters from the UK and the rest of Europe?
The super middleweight class is 23 years old, and there have been 41 different champions, of which only 13 have been American.
The heart and soul of the super middleweights have been the fighters who committed to the division, made or at least solidified their reputations at 12st, and scored their most significant triumphs at the weight. For multi-division titlists like Leonard and Hearns, super middleweight was a mere pit stop. But Joe Calzaghe, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn and Steve Collins turned a division into a prime battlefield.
On 3 November in Cardiff, Calzaghe will clash with fellow unbeaten Mikkel Kessler in a unification bout featuring titlists with a combined record of 82-0. The outcome will impact the pound-for-pound rankings, the super middleweight rankings and the all-time division rankings.
At a press conference announcing the fight, I asked both titlists to identify the best super middleweight of all. Calzaghe said he was number one, with Roy Jones second. Kessler said he was number one, but acknowledged that he'd have to beat Calzaghe to prove it.
Here, then, from a writer on the wrong side of the pond (Farhood is American), are the Top 10 super middleweights in division history.

1 ROY JONES

Jones occupies the highest perch for three reasons: 1) He won his share of the title by masterfully outboxing James Toney, who at the time was ranked second, pound for pound; 2) He made five defences, all by stoppage, and never lost at the weight; 3) He won the title at age 25 and vacated at 28, or to put it more simply, he reigned when Roy Jones was Roy Jones, a breathtaking, unique, overwhelming talent.
Toney aside, Jones's opposition at super middleweight wasn't memorable; his victims were Bryant Brannon, Vinny Pazienza, Antoine Byrd, Tony Thornton and Eric Lucas. Nonetheless, his performances were special. Against Paz, he won a round without absorbing a single blow.
A bout vs fellow titlist Nigel Benn would've been intriguing, but at that point in Jones's career, he wasn't going to lose to Benn or anybody else.

2 JOE CALZAGHE

A 10-year title run and 20 successful defences is the stuff of legends, and the Welsh southpaw is still rolling. Should he convincingly defeat Kessler, I'll place him above Jones.
To place the numbers in perspective, consider that among today's titlists, Calzaghe's reign is seven years longer than that of the runners-up, lightweight Juan Diaz and strawweight Yutaka niida.
Calzaghe has been uneven. He's suffered several injuries, struggled through mediocre performances, and bested forgettable challengers, including Will McIntyre, Rick Thornberry and Tocker Pudwill. Moreover, 18 of his 20 defences have come in the UK. But the positives are sparkling: He won his first title by dethroning an itimidating presence and established titlist in Chris Eubank, rose from a devastating knockdown to stop Byron Mitchell, and schooled Jeff Lacy, who was 21-0 and labeled a mini-Tyson.
At this point, Calzaghe is defined by his dominance over Lacy, who is dismissed as having been overrated only because of the thoroughness of Calzaghe's victory. If the left-hander defeats Kessler, we'll have to reconsider his credentials for the second time in 20 months.

3 NIGEL BENN

With "The Dark Destroyer", there was balance: A former belt-holder at middleweight, Benn followed nine successful defences at 12st with losses in three consecutive title bouts. Title fight wins over Mauro Galvano (twice), Lou Gent and danny Perez don't score a lot of points, but his rematch defence against arch-rival Eubank (D 12), fought before 42,000 fans at Old Trafford, was the division's most significant bout to that point, and his tragic off-the-floor stoppage of fearsome puncher Gerald McClellan was as savage a bout as any in the '90s.
The majority of observers thought Benn nicked Eubank in their 1993 unification showdown. In fact, a point deduction for punching low cost Benn the verdict.

4 CHRIS EUBANK
Sadly, what McClellan was to Benn, Michael Watson was to Eubank. In one of the best fights of the decade (and one of the most dramatic turnarounds in history), Eubank won a vacant title by rising from the first knockdown of his career and immediately dropping Watson. He finished his rival early in the next round, and Watson, severly injured, never fought again.
Eubank mad 14 successful defences. Like most long-reigning titlists, his resume includes some forgettable challenges (Mauricio Costa, John Jarvis, Sam Storey), but his draw with Benn and his points win in Germany over former and future titlist Graciano Rocchigiani, who was 35-0 at the time, elevate him over almost all other super middles.
It was before Calzaghe's title-fight win over Eubank that the division developed its reputation as a British stronghold. And even though they fought each other only once at the weight, Eubank and Benn are responsible.

5 JAMES TONEY
It can be argued that at his best, Toney was a better fighter than both Benn and Eubank, but his stay at super middle was relatively short, and his horrendous points loss to Jones deserves penalty.
What to make of Toney's title-winning stoppage of Iran Barkley? "The Blade" had twice beaten Hearns, but had also suffered a first-round KO at the hands of Benn. That aside, Toney, who always struggled to make 12st, defended against Tim Littles, who was 24-0, and comprehensively defeated Prince Charles Williams, who had reigned with distinction at light-heavyweight.
Suffice to say that when we consider Toney's career in its entirety, only a small portion of the focus is applied to his days in this division.

6 STEVE COLLINS
Timing is essential, and for that reason, the Irishman, despite having twice beaten both Benn and Eubank, ranks below them.
Collins caught Eubank toward the end, and both his wins over Benn, the result of injury (First fight) and curious surrender (rematch), were less than comprehensive. The back-to-back losses were the last fights of Benn's career.
One other thing: As tough as Collins was, he wasn't the fighter his more celebrated rivals were.
Collins made seven successful defences. Remove the three that came against Eubank and Benn and his challengers (Cornelius Carr, Neville Brown, Craig Cummings) were underwhelming. He did, however, retire with the belt, something neither Eubank nor Benn can claim to have done.

7 SVEN OTTKE
The German never lost a fight (34-0), but don't even suggest comparisons with Rocky Marciano, which would be grotesque and absurd.
So how does a titlist make 21 defences, retire with two belts, and rank only seventh? Lots of reasons. For one, Ottke never defended outside of Germany. That's a lot of home cooking, which partly explains four wins by split or majority decision. For another, there's nothing special about Ottke's list of challengers. There are some quality wins (Byron Mitchell, Charles Brewer, Mads Larsen, Glen Johnson, Silvio Branco) , but nothing that suggests entry into the pound-for-pound listings.
And let's not forget that in December '03, Ottke was given an early Christmas present when he outpointed Robin Reid.

8 FRANKIE LILES
The long lefty makes the list based on longevity; he made seven successful defences and reigned for the better part of five years.
I'd argue that Liles is a bit underrated, partly because his style was often negative and partly because his reign overlapped with higher-profile titlists like Jones and Benn. Moreover, Liles lacked a defining fight. Instead, he was the consistent type, defending mostly against good fighters like his arch-rival Tim Littles.
Liles's best win came in his first defence, against fellow southpaw and two-division titlist Michael Nunn in Ecuador. Nunn had only two losses at the time.
That Liles, who was never the best fighter at his weight, cracks the Top 10 speaks volumes of the relative immaturity of this division. Twenty-three years isn't enough to establish a solid list of exceptional champions.

9 CHONG PAL PARK
The second titlist in this division's history, Park was an oddity, only because there are very few Koreans fighting in the heavier weight classes. (Interestingly, another Korean, In Chul Baek, reigned at super middleweight in the late-'80s.)
As a two time titlist, Park made a combined nine successful defences. Eleven of his twelve world title fights took place in his homeland. He was a strong super middle, but the quality of his title fight opponents was relatively weak. For instance, Roy Gumbs and Emmanuel Otti were both coming off back-to-back losses, Indonesia's Polly Pasireron was 4-2, and Jesus Gallardo was a novice without a notable win.
The only impressive name of Park's list of victims is Lindell Holmes, and Park barely edged the American, who was a future world titlist.

10 MIKKEL KESSLER
Obviously, "The Viking Warrior" will ultimatly be measured by his performance against Calzaghe. At this point, including him in the Top 10 is based more on talent and potential than accomplishment.
Kessler is only 28, and he's the reigning titlist of two organisations. He's made four successful defences, and while there have been no creampuffs, the level of his title fight opposition hasn't been sterling. For instance, Markus Beyer was 35, and Eric Lukas, who hasn't fought since, had gone 2-2 in his previous four bouts.
What makes Calzaghe-Kessler so appetising is not only the combined record of 82-0, but also the fact that they're so clearly the two best fighters in their division. Two European champions fighting for global dominance - just as it should be at super middleweight.

Source: Boxing Monthly magazine
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While I'm sure many will have had a different order for the list. What is your Top 10 now including the current fighters?

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:Let me see now. JC's best wins were against Hop, who RJJ had beaten 20 years earlier. Give me strength. Oh and Lacy.

I still maintain though that JC is Britain's No1 P4P fighter.

He was that good. RJJ was simply better.

I don't agree with you on JC being britains P4P #1 but we've been down that road before. I do agree that RJJ was better than him IMO BHOP was as well.

Heh. That we have. I was right though.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:Let me see now. JC's best wins were against Hop, who RJJ had beaten 20 years earlier. Give me strength. Oh and Lacy.

I still maintain though that JC is Britain's No1 P4P fighter.

He was that good. RJJ was simply better.

I don't agree with you on JC being britains P4P #1 but we've been down that road before. I do agree that RJJ was better than him IMO BHOP was as well.

Heh. That we have. I was right though.

WelshDevilRob wrote:

azania wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:"RJJ is the best on that list"

I haven't seen anything else

And he certainly doesn't qualify on my SMW top 5 list based on Toney.

Otherwise Hatton gets all sorts of brown hole loving for beating KT when he was what - #3 P4P?

Who on that list would have beaten him?

Nail and hammer spring to mind. Nobody on the list would have beaten RJJ. To suggest otherwise is bearing on the ridiculous.

You say it is "ridiculous" for any of them having a chance of beating him. That is just plain ignorance. To say maybe you think he was heavy favourite, well then you have a chance of being taken seriously, but you didnt.

AdZacO wrote:

WelshDevilRob wrote:

azania wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:"RJJ is the best on that list"

I haven't seen anything else

And he certainly doesn't qualify on my SMW top 5 list based on Toney.

Otherwise Hatton gets all sorts of brown hole loving for beating KT when he was what - #3 P4P?

Who on that list would have beaten him?

Nail and hammer spring to mind. Nobody on the list would have beaten RJJ. To suggest otherwise is bearing on the ridiculous.

You say it is "ridiculous" for any of them having a chance of beating him. That is just plain ignorance. To say maybe you think he was heavy favourite, well then you have a chance of being taken seriously, but you didnt.

Points taken and I have said elsewhere that Nigel Benn could beat the SM version of RJJ, mind he'd be the underdog.
But on a skills level I stand by my post - I lived through the era and have uploaded never mind downloaded fights by all. RJJ was too good at his best.

I am not ignorant, I've just seen them all fight and RJJ is the best to say he isn't is being ignorant of boxing.

Right this is the message that has made me sign up.

RJJ - fantastic fighter against weaker fighters never really tested himself. Style very much like Naz yet when Naz tested himself he was beat.

Again like Naz brilliant to watch though.

Now for all this 'prime for prime' comments. The fact that Calzaghe beat RJJ when BOTH were passed their prime is enough for me to say Calzaghe would have at least given him problems at any stage. It's not like Holmes vs Ali, Calzaghe wasn't some fresh and hungry new champ beating on an out of retirement fighter.

Calzaghe is a definite no 1, that fact that he beat 3 of the other fighters on the list, 2 in the top 5 (although before it gets pointed out RJJ was at a higher weight, in fact RJJ's much more natural weight at the time).

For those rating RJJ as a an unbeatable god, bearing in mind all the divisions he fought in can someone remind me how many P4P Top 10 rated fighters he fought in his career??

I presume it must be similar to the number which Manny/Pacman/Oscar/Hopkins etc fought... Hell, even Hatton has fought 3 (Tzysu, Manny, Mayweather)

Thinking about it I can only come up with 2. Toney and Calzaghe which he is 1 - 1.

...and for those who mention Hopkins in 93 he was as green as they come back then with only 23 fights under his belt before he faced RJJ, which was also Hopkins first attempt at a main belt. It wasn't until much later in his career when he blossomed into a top 10 P4P king. Not even sure Bernie was still top 10 when they fought there rematch last year.

Based on the OP post, Calzaghe is the current clear leader. RJJ would be lucky to scrap into the top 5

kevchadders wrote:For those rating RJJ as a an unbeatable god, bearing in mind all the divisions he fought in can someone remind me how many P4P Top 10 rated fighters he fought in his career??

I presume it must be similar to the number which Manny/Pacman/Oscar/Hopkins etc fought... Hell, even Hatton has fought 3 (Tzysu, Manny, Mayweather)

Thinking about it I can only come up with 2. Toney and Calzaghe which he is 1 - 1.

...and for those who mention Hopkins in 93 he was as green as they come back then with only 23 fights under his belt before he faced RJJ, which was also Hopkins first attempt at a main belt. It wasn't until much later in his career when he blossomed into a top 10 P4P king. Not even sure Bernie was still top 10 when they fought there rematch last year.

Based on the OP post, Calzaghe is the current clear leader. RJJ would be lucky to scrap into the top 5

I agree JC should be number 1 for me RJJ was at his best at MW. But who would be the other 4 you would have ahead of him if he struggles to make your top 5?

Its interesting the number of excuses given for Hop losing to RJJ. He was green being the main one. He's improved since then. What of the defeats against Taylor? Age? Off one of his various peaks? Or did he simply have problems with fast fighters who wouldn't stand in front of him?

azania wrote:Its interesting the number of excuses given for Hop losing to RJJ. He was green being the main one. He's improved since then. What of the defeats against Taylor? Age? Off one of his various peaks? Or did he simply have problems with fast fighters who wouldn't stand in front of him?

He wasn't green he was 28 and had 20 odd fights. As for losing to RJJ, he lost to the better fighter which is probably the reason their was no rematch don't think BHop would have been to keen. As for Taylor he lost to the better fighter on the night Taylor might just have been one of those fighers that had his number. It happens.

Mate how can ANYONE on this planet rate Toney above Collins!? That's a shocker.... :huh:

There was no clamour for a Hopkins Jones rematch until about 2002 and Hopkins priced hmself out completely by demanding 50% and tht Jones come down from Lightheavy to face him at a catchweight.

The Hopkins Jones fought wasnt peak but he still wouldnt lose for about another decade after. Jones also boxed him having with a crippled right hand people seem to forget.