How can Wales beat Australia next week?

It is obvious what happened yesterday.

Wales massively underestimated Australia and didn't expect them to play as intelligently, pacey and intensely as they did. I don't think Wales would have been complacent, but due to Oz injuries I don't think Wales expected them to play as well as they normally do.

Wales made so many mistakes due to the sheer speed and intensity of the Os assault and phase play. I've never seen the ball recycled so quickly. Genia was passing it back out almost as soon as the ruck was created. That is what Wales are not doing and need to replicated. I was mortified to see Phillips slow once again and watch a try scoring opportunity goto waste in the first half due to not being quick enough or paying attention to the ball in the ruck.

Instead of grabbing the game by the scruff. Wales were always waiting to see how Oz would play and what they would do first. How many times did we see them simply track Genia to see if he made a pass before thinking about tackling him. Just get stuck in and tackle him whatever happens. Welsh players should be confident in the abilities of the players outside them to make the tackle if they commit to tackling Genia and co and he offloads. It is far worse to not commit the tackle and then he does a sidestep or gains another 10/20 yards.

Not enough pressure was but on Berrick Barnes and too often the outside backs had an easy platform. Tackling overall was really poor compared to the Six Nations. Genia skinned too many players and I've said time and time again that James Hook cannot tackle well when he players anywhere other than 10. The last try was a textbook move and nobody even tried to tackle him. It was worse than South Africa's winning try in the World Cup.

We must not kick possession away unless the ball lands in their 22 or we get a lineout. Australia are so good at counter attacking it is pointless giving away possession. They can't score without the ball and we should be confident enough in our forwards that we can keep possession and not give away the ball or a penalty. Rustyness was an overall factor in the performance and I don't think there should have been a BaaBaa's fixture and the whole squad should have been Oz together for 10-14 days before the first test.

Look at replays again I think I was too harsh on Priestland. That pass from Warburton was ridiculous. Wales panicked too much yesterday. There was no need to panic and throw a feeble pass, just like JD2's run at 78 minutes where he fluffed it up due to panicking. Starting Hook at 10 is not a good idea. Priestland just needs to calm down and think about what he's doing more. Cut out the poor tackles and kick more intelligently.

Losing George North could have cost Wales the match he is so strong and a massive attacking threat. If he is fit next week then we must get the ball to him and Cuthbert as much as possible.

Genia and Barnes need to be target by Phillips and Warburton. The forwards need to be FAR more aggressive. Everyone goes on about the pack as being Australia's weak point, but their counter rucking was insane. We need
to get our forwards in a nasty frame of mind and really fight back next week.

Just read that Faletau is out. Blessing in disguise maybe after yesterdays performance?

TEAM FOR NEXT WEEK:

1. Jenkins
2. Owens
3. Jones

4. AWJ
5. Evans

6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Jones

9. Phillips
10. Priestland

11. North

12. Beck
13. Davies

14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Paul James
17. Matthew Rees
18. Bradley Davies
19. Justin Tipuric
20. Rhys Webb
21. James Hook
22. Scott Williams / Harry Robinson

I'm wondering if we had done too much physical training there seemed to be a lot of heavy legs out there.

Cymroglan wrote:I'm wondering if we had done too much physical training there seemed to be a lot of heavy legs out there.

We didn't play to our strengths. Genia seems to be the Australian Shane Williams. I thought it couldn't get worse than Beale, but then he came along.

Wales don't have a 9 like Genia, but we do have Phillips who is the most physical 9 in the world and has saved our skin on so many occasions. His weakness is paying attention to the ball on the floor and giving slow ball.

Wales must nullify their halfbacks and become more aggressive in the pack. If our forwards counter ruck more then it makes it easier for Priestland. Any weaknesses staring in the pack will always funnel out to the backs as they are under more pressure.

Sam warbutons pass was not meant for priestland it was meant for JD standing behind him had priestland let it go wide Halfpenny was in.

Priestland knocked on at the base of the ruck with the line begging in the first half,

Priestland got turned over more than any other welsh player,

Priestland made the least yards of any back (2)

Priestlands kicking game was way off.

Priestland has to be dropped after that game.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Sam warbutons pass was not meant for priestland it was meant for JD standing behind him had priestland let it go wide Halfpenny was in.

Priestland knocked on at the base of the ruck with the line begging in the first half,

Priestland got turned over more than any other welsh player,

Priestland made the least yards of any back (2)

Priestlands kicking game was way off.

Priestland has to be dropped after that game.

I have to agree with all of that.

I think after the Stephen Jones era we would start playing more attacking 10's. We need a 10 with real gas like Dan Carter. Hook needs to be made permanent 10 and KEPT there. I hope Matthew Morgan continues to develop his pace is devastating.

Not having a 10 that can run means the opposition know almost every time that the Welsh 10 is either going to:

a) pass
b) kick
c) attempt to run and make hardly any yards

What has Hook done in a Wales 10 shirt?

1. Sidestepped 2 or 3 players in Twickenham to put Lee Byrne into space and win us the first match in Twickenham in 20 years.

2. Chargedown against England in 2007 that led to a try that inspired a victory.

3. Sidestepped Wilkinson and several other players to score a great try in Twickenham that nearly lead to a famous comeback in 2010. OK he was 13 that day.

4. Hook moves to 10 against England in August 2011 after Priestland gets subbed. Wales tuck on the line not going anywhere. Yet again another Hook sidestep from 10 to score a try that wins the game.

Hook does have a tendancy to do crazy things in matches though... interception passes, unreliable with the boot etc. He often pushes things too far and gets burnt because of it.

I didn't see the match yesterday so can't comment on Priestlands performance but I do find Hook a little to unpredictable for test rugby.

Hope Australia do not turn up. That is one way Wales could beat Australia.

No just joking, Wales will have to be alot smarter next test than they was this one. Is Hook going to be playing full back again?

Wales was doing well untill the sedcond half, then as usual the SH teams pull away. Phillips needs to be more of a scrum half than an extra back row player. It is realy hard to say what Wales can/ cannot do for the next game.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Wales was doing well untill the sedcond half,

did you watch, see, hear, any of the game? Read any of the post match reports etc?

• Quicker ball from the rucks
  
• Hit the ground running as soon as the whistle blows
  
• Running on the ball without slowing down... they seemed hesitant when taking the ball on, sloppy timing maybe.
  
• See some more dog at the breakdown.
  
• Making those tackles count.
  

pretty much it...

Firstly we must PICK ON FORM. If the decision to leave Dan Biggar at him was truly Rob Howley's, then I have serious doubts about his decision making.
I'm not saying he's Dan Carter, but he is playing out of his skin, has engineered wins away at Leinster (twice) and Munster, to name a few.
After guiding the Ospreys to the Rabo title, nicy topped off with a touchline conversion to seal the game, I imagine most people thought he would be pushing for a place, but instead we are persevering with a 10 who hasn't put in a decent full performance since the world cup warm ups.
Priestland can do some things that Biggar can't, but the amount of basic errors in between the magic is slowly - actually quickly - dragging us down.
I really rate Priestland, but not at the expense of a fairly similar player, who's actually executing his gameplan far better.

Also, picking Priestland means we have to pick Hook on the bench because we need kicking cover. This means it's harder to pick a specialist fullback for the bench, and Hook keeps getting put there, and it DOESN'T WORK!

The centres, for God's sake. We leave the on-fire Beck on the bench, who comes on and with his 1st touch of the ball, offloads for a try. Was that our only offload of the game?? Scott Williams, brilliant player, but hasn't played for months!
He looked as dazed walking off the field as he did while he was on it. Himself and JD played like they'd never met before.

For next week I would go for

Gethin Jenkins
Ken Owens
Adam Jones
AWJ
Ian Evans
Ryan Jones
Justin Tipuric
Toby Faletau
Mike Phillips
James Hook
George North
Ashley Beck
JD
Alex Cuthbert
Leigh Halfpenny

We need a ball carrying 6, and Ryan Jones and Tipuric are less likely to stand looking at rucks to see where they are going to go next.
I genuinely couldn't believe the way we went about our business on
Saturday, the Australian management must have been as stunned as I was at our tactic of poor kick to the back three after poor kick to the back three.
My selection is a bit knee-jerk, but the tour is on the line.

P.s. I don't want to take anything away from Australia who beat us well and truly all ends up.

Tobias Faladingdong is out of the tour!

Ryan Jones at 8 then. Bad news for Toby.

Red_Dragon_Spirit wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Wales was doing well untill the sedcond half,

did you watch, see, hear, any of the game? Read any of the post match reports etc?

Yes to all your questions.

Wales massively underestimated Australia and didn't expect them to play as intelligently, pacey and intensely as they did.

I cannot believe that for one moment. you are telling me a professional coach and internatonal team goes into a test match and nderestimate australia's ability to play, intelligently and with pace?

biltongbek wrote:

Wales massively underestimated Australia and didn't expect them to play as intelligently, pacey and intensely as they did.

I cannot believe that for one moment. you are telling me a professional coach and internatonal team goes into a test match and nderestimate australia's ability to play, intelligently and with pace?

You can tell by the way they were marking Genia. Not matter how dangerous he looked, they kept of watching him in case he made a pass rather than going for the tackle as soon as he had the ball.

He gained so many yards that match for no reason.

That's the genius of the player, the same thing happens with Cooper when he plays, they create doubt, that is why they are so good, but in all honesty has nothing to do with underestimating Australia.

Wales have played OZ enough in the recent past to know his talent.

Score more points would be a starter

By actually showing up for the first 40 minutes.
Our pack was embarrassing tbh.
Backs need to stop running into players and start creating space, the Aussies are very good defensively, they're not little kids like some people seem to think

Wales needs a bit more from their gameplan.

Let's look at Phillips, during the six nations he would be very good at getting over the advantage line, but he wouldn't look to offload.

The only way you are going to outscore australia is to have quick ball, and I mean very, very quick ball. They don't slip tackles often and if you rely to break tackles with slow ruck ball you aren't going to score enough tries.

Phillips must obvioulsy get the ball out quick, but it is vitally important that he looks for the offload.

The other point is you need support runners.

Look at NZ yesterday, when one player is carrying the ball, the support runners (often 2 or 3) are running into different positions, getting themsleves into space before they reciieve the offload.

That is what wales need to do, the one off runner with one supporter won't be enough when the opportunity knocks

The pack needs to assert themselves as well. Phillips wasn't protected by the back row at all

Yes, I agree, but that goes without saying, if your forwards aren't protecting the ball you aint gonna do much with it.

What I don't get: We can see what NZ do, why can't we copy or replicate it?

They time the pass so well and there is a supporting player on both sides. The player don't even have to think cuz they KNOW there is support to offload to.

Offload is better as it commits a defender.

It's pretty simple really. Our players aren't as skillfull or dynamic.

We miss Henson.

Wales still crave a 12 than can time a pass as well as him or create holes.

Henson would wait till the very last second to pop a pass knowing that it would create a gap/overlap.

We don't have that intelligence.

Some quite fickle posts by our Welsh posters here. I can't see why there's any need to panic or change a game plan that won a grand slam. You were within a point with 25 minutes to go and had chances to win.

Some things are clear though:

1. If you ever wondered which of your locks is most important to the team overall - now you know. His name is Ian Evans. And he probably should be told he has to postpone his honeymoon.

2. This 'Mike Philips as extra flanker' nonsense only works if the pack is on the front foot. If it isn't, and in particular if you're bleeding possession in the contact area, then an international 9 should be able to switch tactics and get the ball the hell out of there. Philips just doesn't seem able to do it and contributed to Preistland having to take first contact with Horne in his face for most of the match.

3. Beck really has to start. Williams did fine but that really shouldn't be good enough at this level. Trust me on this, I've been watching Graham Morrison for years.

Beck could be the answer!

I also think we need to get the combination right. Scott W and Davies isn't an international pairing and nowhere near as effective as Roberts and Davies.
Scott W also needs to find his own game instead of just being another crash ball merchant, we need to use his pace in open space more often.

George Carlin wrote:Some quite fickle posts by our Welsh posters here. I can't see why there's any need to panic or change a game plan that won a grand slam. You were within a point with 25 minutes to go and had chances to win.

Some things are clear though:

1. If you ever wondered which of your locks is most important to the team overall - now you know. His name is Ian Evans. And he probably should be told he has to postpone his honeymoon.

2. This 'Mike Philips as extra flanker' nonsense only works if the pack is on the front foot. If it isn't, and in particular if you're bleeding possession in the contact area, then an international 9 should be able to switch tactics and get the ball the hell out of there. Philips just doesn't seem able to do it and contributed to Preistland having to take first contact with Horne in his face for most of the match.

3. Beck really has to start. Williams did fine but that really shouldn't be good enough at this level. Trust me on this, I've been watching Graham Morrison for years.

You know why we need to change the game plan? Because playing agains the SH teams is completely different to winning a grand slam against opposition to be quite frank were poor this year. You can't win by smashing in to the opposition or just defending the whole game.

Another point you should add is the pack needs to be more effective at the breakdown, we were completely outgunned there.

I thought Williams had a good game before his injury but wouldn't be to upset to see Beck start, both are young lads and both need the exposure.

I have long said that Evans could be the enforcer we have needed in the 2nd row but what with injuries and poor discipline he has been limited, if all that behind him then he has long future ahead.

We were well beaten in the contact area yesterday so need to address that first n foremost.

As for Henson please lets just hope we never see him anywhere near a Welsh squad again

gowales wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Some quite fickle posts by our Welsh posters here. I can't see why there's any need to panic or change a game plan that won a grand slam. You were within a point with 25 minutes to go and had chances to win.

Some things are clear though:

1. If you ever wondered which of your locks is most important to the team overall - now you know. His name is Ian Evans. And he probably should be told he has to postpone his honeymoon.

2. This 'Mike Philips as extra flanker' nonsense only works if the pack is on the front foot. If it isn't, and in particular if you're bleeding possession in the contact area, then an international 9 should be able to switch tactics and get the ball the hell out of there. Philips just doesn't seem able to do it and contributed to Preistland having to take first contact with Horne in his face for most of the match.

3. Beck really has to start. Williams did fine but that really shouldn't be good enough at this level. Trust me on this, I've been watching Graham Morrison for years.

You know why we need to change the game plan? Because playing agains the SH teams is completely different to winning a grand slam against opposition to be quite frank were poor this year. You can't win by smashing in to the opposition or just defending the whole game.

Another point you should add is the pack needs to be more effective at the breakdown, we were completely outgunned there.

I don't think it is about changing the gameplan, not for you, us, England or anyone else for that matter.

In the front row every team need to gain parity, at line out time you need parity, at the breakdown you need enough numbers, that allows you to control possession. nothing about that is game plan.

As much as we want not to acknowledge it, all teams kick for territory, up and unders to chase, chip kicks, etc. We all pass the ball to the flyhalves, we all try to find gaps, get to the advantage line and create overlaps.

Rugby is really a simple game when you break it down like that.

But to be enable your team to score, you need smarts, skill and power. If your players have all that, the better for you. It is the execution that makes the difference between the All Blacks, SA, Oz etc. Some teams have all the requirements and other only have some, SA as an example has the power and arguably the skill but not the smarts.

Australia has the smarts and the skill but not always the power. New Zealand is lucky, they have it all, smarts, skill and power, and they execute better than most, most of the time. Others don't.

and then of course there is defence.

Ok not game plan but tactics. We need to play to our strengths but we also need to change tactics to suit the opposition, i think we were naive to be honest and didn't expect the Aussies to be so good, almost like the boys thought all they had to do was show up.

1. Better kicking game (with less of it)
2. Control the ball in the rucks
3. Much stronger in the breakdown
4. Give the ball to Phillips on a plate - we did this at the WC and it allowed Phillips to dominate teams and his game was at its best. Place it right at his feet and make him shift it or run at the defence - also stop him box kicking.
5. Bring in Jones, Jones and Evans.
6. Keep 1/2p at FB and pray he doesn't get injured or else we are scr*wed

If all bar Toby are fit the only changes I would make are up front: Rees at 2, Ianto and Alan Wyn and Jones at 8. Both halfbacks looked poor but the ball they were getting was rubbish as the Ozzies hands were all over the rucks.

Beck showed a lovely off load for the try but other than that looked rather dazed, out of position for the final try and threw a pass behind Cuthbert when trying to run out of defence. Hook was generally very poor, he tends to drift in and out of games and lacks pace at this level. Saying that if Scott Williams is not fit I would be tempted to play Hook at 12 to provide a second kicking option.

Wales need to remember Australia is a class above the teams in the six nations when it comes to attack.

They are faster at the rucks, more creative in backplay, what they might lack in the forward pack at scrumtime, is made up with commitment at the breakdown.

Biltong is right, it's about execution at the end of the day. Whatever tactics, skillsets, strengths you bring, if you fail to execute them properly, you're gonna be lucky to win.

biltongbek wrote:Wales need to remember Australia is a class above the teams in the six nations when it comes to attack.

They are faster at the rucks, more creative in backplay, what they might lack in the forward pack at scrumtime, is made up with commitment at the breakdown.

Exactly i think a lot fans underestimated Australia

You have to get the basics right and we did not do that yesterday.
Australia played well but we made life easy for them by committing several unenforced errors.
We don't need to hit the panic button we just need to cut out the simple errors.

gowales wrote:

Exactly i think a lot fans underestimated Australia

Which given they've beaten us twice (comfortably) before this game in the last 6/7 months is pretty stupid!

Not sure the players underestimated them though, just underperformed?

biltongbek wrote:Wales need to remember Australia is a class above the teams in the six nations when it comes to attack.

They are faster at the rucks, more creative in backplay, what they might lack in the forward pack at scrumtime, is made up with commitment at the breakdown.

Yep, the 6Ns teams this year all had pretty poor attacking structure - England showed little from their backs and France played a kicking game. Ireland scored 3 tries and gave our defence the most trouble, but it was a long time since that game.

Red_Dragon_Spirit wrote:

gowales wrote:

Exactly i think a lot fans underestimated Australia

Which given they've beaten us twice (comfortably) before this game in the last 6/7 months is pretty stupid!

Not sure the players underestimated them though, just underperformed?

It is pretty stupid and cocky as well. We need to put our keep our mouths shut some times.
I doubt that the players underestimated them, but as Warburton said the team was overwhelmed by the pace of the game.

gowales
You seem to think that it's wrong that some Welsh fans see their team in a positive light. I'm beginning to wonder what your motives are on this forum because you seem to have nothing good to say about Welsh rugby.

I think the reality Wales needs to face is the six nation champions (of which they were three times in the recent past) have come south for some time struggling to win here.

Being grandslam champions doesn't give you the devine right to win here. You need to lift to another notch which no champion in the past have been able to do for the last ten years, apart from the odd win here and there.

There is still much work to do.

gowales wrote:
I doubt that the players underestimated them, but as Warburton said the team was overwhelmed by the pace of the game.

Pace yes, but abilities... I doubt it

Hi All, new to the board.

Wales have clearly missed the direction and tactical awareness of Gatland this weekend. Also, a number of these players were clearly undercooked, lacking the game sharpness needed to play at the top of the game.

Sam Warburton has been out for 11 weeks and looked slow to the breakdown and lacking the strength we have seen he has. This game will stand him in good stead for next week and I expect to see a dramatic increase in performance from him.

Toby Faletau, now ruled out of the tour, also looked jaded and was ineffectual for large parts of the game. Ryan Jones has been in imperious form is now a certain starter which will help our go forward and the slowing down of Oz ball.

Charteris is now certain not to start the game on Saturday and I would say we would not miss his contribution in the lineout. Bradley davies carried well at times but he looked tired after 35 minutes.

Alyn Wyn and Ian Evans must start saturday. They both possess huge dynamism around the field and Evans is a great lineout operator. They both contest the breakdown fiercely, more so than both Charteris and Davies and will help at the fringes of the ruck to contain Genia. They add pace to the forwards.

Rees will start, owens was not at his best and struggled with the physicality. A power start needed by wales.

Priestland may start and it is largely dependent on Hooks performance in the first 40 against the Brumbies whether he will or not.

The Game Plan:

Wales must start fast on the weekend, we were all aware of there lack of dynamism around the field and they were caught cold in the first 40.

Stop Genia: Easier said than done I admit. How? Contest the breakdown fiercely with numbers. Wales were guilty of standing on ceremony both on their own ball and australias on saturday.

Wales must commit numbers to win the ball, its all very well having players stood out wanting to go wide but if you lose the ball, well...how can you?

Wales stood and expected the referee to control the breakdown for them. If he isn't the players need to fly in and adapt to the referees interpretations quicker. They must also commit numbers on Australian ball to disrupt the speed. This just wasnt the case on saturday. Players stood off and didn't number up properly, especially on the short side.

Genia is the best halfback in the world. Yes. If Wales can slow the ball down they must defend narrower to begin with. There were large holes between defenders (see 2nd half try by genia). That means defending from out to in. Forwards and backs must identify where the threats are and must be reponsible for man to man marking via positions when possible. Backs on backs, forwards on forwards.

Numerous times Genia spotted props defending areas too large where he could exploit them with his space. By defending narrower you reduce his threat. Wales should concede tries out wide not through the middle if anywhere at all. Phillips must take ownership over genia and literally man mark him.

If Genia does crab, Wales Cannot stand off him. The closest player must take him out quickly, if it is ever so slightly late, so be it. It will slow him down on getting to the next break down.

Kicking: High contestable kicks/long kicks. The kicking was aimless and poor, an overall improvement needed.
Composure: Wales must control the ball at rucks and go through multiple phases. Secure the ball.
Maul: Wales must maul a lot in the first 40, try to tie the forwards in and wear them down.

The Team:

1) Jenkins 2) Rees 3) Jones 4) Wyn Jones 5) Ian Evans 6) Lydiate 7) Warburton 8) R Jones

9) Phillips 10) Priestland 11) North 12) Williams (Becks defence is subject) 13) JD 14) Cuthbert 15) Halfpenny

16) Owens 17) James 18) B Davies 19) Tupuric 20) Williams 21) Hook 22) Beck

Apologies for the NOVEL!!!!

Welcome permian, proper opening post.

Cheers mate, I do try!

biltongbek wrote:I think the reality Wales needs to face is the six nation champions (of which they were three times in the recent past) have come south for some time struggling to win here.

Being grandslam champions doesn't give you the devine right to win here. You need to lift to another notch which no champion in the past have been able to do for the last ten years, apart from the odd win here and there.

There is still much work to do.

We had a decent RWC, very good 6n's and all of a sudden a series demolition of Oz was on the cards (fans and media)!

I totally agree, some need a reality check. One step at a time, we have shown we can compete, but we need to step up our commitment at the breakdown and generally focus on the the basics. We're not far off, but off we are.

Cymroglan wrote:gowales
You seem to think that it's wrong that some Welsh fans see their team in a positive light. I'm beginning to wonder what your motives are on this forum because you seem to have nothing good to say about Welsh rugby.

I think it's wrong when i hear some fans calling other fans WUMs because they say that Wales are going to lose.
I do have good things to say, many things but i don't carried away. I try to keep things in perspective and not get too emotional about things, call me cold if you like.

I heard things like we were going to destroy the Aussies physically, demolish their scrum, run over them etc.. I've been disappointed a lot by the Welsh rugby team and until they start producing the goods i'm not going to get caught in the hype.

biltongbek wrote:Welcome permian, proper opening post.

+1

gowales, I never get too confident, the Boks are always a contender, and as passionate and analytical as I am I alwys remain realistic