ESPN Team of the Week is Some Vast Riddle

Team of the Week: 15. Israel Dagg (NZ); 14. Bryan Habana (SA), 13. Jean de Villiers (SA), 12. Felipe Contepomi (Arg), 11. Julian Savea (NZ); 10. Dan Carter (NZ), 9. Will Genia (Aus); 1. Rodrigo Roncero (Arg), 2. Bismarck du Plessis (SA), 3. Jannie du Plessis (SA), 4. Richie Gray (Sco), 5. Geoff Parling (Eng), 6. Tom Johnson (Eng), 7. Ross Rennie (Sco), 8. Kieran Read (NZ)

I ask you about this. Is some kind of joke?

6 and 7 are hilarious - Albert and Pocock were miles in front.


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I prefer the Planet Rugby team

15 Israel Dagg (New Zealand) - Class, class, class. As is his way, Dagg glided across the turf and also combined well with Julian Savea on Saturday. It needs noting how well Adam Ashley-Cooper and Mike Brown did in the air but Dagg was a class above with ball in hand in Auckland.

14 Alex Cuthbert (Wales) - As we will mention when we get to jersey number 11, a certain Bok came close to squeezing his way into our side. Cuthbert's performance meant there was to be no positional switch to 14 for Habana though as the Welshman's try and general problem causing for the Wallabies in Brisbane helped him sneak in.

13 Jean de Villiers (South Africa) - Hats off to De Villiers for leading the Springboks to victory in Heyneke Meyer's first game in charge. The centre did find himself on the receiving end of Manu Tuilagi's power on a couple of occasions but then bounced back with the killer try in the second-half. A proud day for him for sure.

12 Felipe Contepomi (Argentina) - Those fortunate to catch the Pumas taking on Italy would have seen the influence Contepomi had on the game. He scored one try, kicked sixteen points and also showed a lovely touch to help Rodrigo Roncero on his way to five points.

11 Julian Savea (New Zealand) - PR found it mighty tough to leave out Bryan Habana as his season goes from strength to strength. But how can one snub a man who scores a hat-trick on his All Black debut? Savea finished nicely in Auckland. What price on a repeat this week?

10 Dan Carter (New Zealand) - It was a decent kicking return from Carter while he guided his backline well throughout. In truth no other fly-half came close to this jersey apart from maybe Greig Laidlaw. A bit of credit to Aaron Smith here as his service was flat and quick.

9 Will Genia (Australia) - You can either choose to believe that Genia saved Robbie Deans' job with his influential performance against Wales or not but what cannot be argued is his 10/10 rating in Brisbane. He was a magician, with these sorts of classy tries a joy to watch.

8 Kieran Read (New Zealand) - One of the nicest guys in rugby, Read showed yet again just how important he is to New Zealand. Todd Blackadder recently tagged him as the best player in the world and in our eyes he is definitely up there with the best of them. Quality.

7 David Pocock (Australia) - Some have this season talked of it being time for Michael Hooper and even Liam Gill to be given runs in the Wallaby jersey. They may have to wait a good while longer as Pocock was at his best against Wales. Mention for Chris Robshaw.

6 Willem Alberts (South Africa) - Our man-of-the-match from Durban and fully deserves his pick today. This season has seen the Sharks man on a seemingly endless road back from injury and on occasions has unbelievably struggled to make the XV. Saturday showed his worth though as he was a carrying beast who combined well with young Marcell Coetzee.

5 Sam Whitelock (New Zealand) - He really has grown as a player since the exit of Brad Thorn. Whitelock has such a bright and long future in the Black jersey and was tireless, intelligent and skilful against the Irish. He was also New Zealand's chief line-out taker.

4 Richie Gray (Scotland) - Yes folks, we are including Tuesday's international between the Wallabies and Scotland in our selection. Terrible conditions for open rugby but that is when teams need grafters to come to the party. Juandre Kruger and Geoff Parling get back pats.

3 Jannie du Plessis (South Africa) - The Springboks needed a solid set-piece against the English and that is what they got thanks largely to Du Plessis. Dan Cole was good in the first-half while Martin Castrogiovanni did well for Italy but we could not overlook this Bok.

2 Tatafu Polota-Nau (Australia) - One moment stood out as in the first-half he broke down the blindside before giving a beautiful no-look pass to a supporting Will Genia five metres in his wake. He was pretty good throughout which sees him edge out Bismarck du Plessis.

1 Rodrigo Roncero (Argentina) - Fourteen tackles and a try from the almost-retired prop. He wants to play in the 2012 Rugby Championship and on this form, it will be hard for head coach Santiago Phelan to leave out the veteran. A mention must be extended to New Zealand's Tony Woodcock, who enjoyed his weekend off from the struggling Blues.

I agree, I'm an England supporter but Johnson and Parling don't deserve to be there, why no Alberts or even Robshaw? What did Jannie Du Plessis do to deserve his place? Surely one of the Bok second rows instead of Parling?

It is just an opinion guys, subjective, dismissive, biased, un substanciated etc. etc.

To be honest, I think O'Brien was easily the best 7. 23 tackles, a number of turnovers, a general nuisance throughout. Also made some decent carries. Not sure who had as huge a game as him this weekend. Alberts also should be at 6, he was devastating.

I don't really think Pocock was that far ahead of Rennie. Rennie made 24 tackles, missed 0. Also turned Australia over many times during that game and carried the ball well and made a lot of yards.

Wales

I think Rennie is in there because he completely outplayed Pocock, who in turn outplayed Warburton.

He was outstanding.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Wales

I think Rennie is in there because he completely outplayed Pocock, who in turn outplayed Warburton.

He was outstanding.

Pocock played 2 matches in a week to an outstanding standard - so not a bad call by PR, but then Rennie was very good in a shock win, so equally deserving.

Parling and Johnson are silly choices, but most journos have rated Johnsons performance some way higher than 606 pundits.

The Edinburgh rugby site says Rennie made 32 tackles missing none. Either way 24 or 32 tackles and none missed is a massive shift!

Actually scrap O'Brien at 7, I would stick him at 8, Alberts at 6 with Rennie at 7. Rennie had an enormous game. He outplayed Pocock.

Yep you are right RDW it was 32 tackles he made, I was looking at the 2nd player in the stats.

Parling and Johnson are silly choices, but most journos have rated Johnsons performance some way higher than 606 pundits

LT, what do you want Parling to do? He's there for the lineout and to carry in the loose. He's the athletic half of the lock pairing. The lineout was edged by England who applied pressure and stopped the Boks rolling maul, for me that's an A for half of his job right there. He might have carried more in the loose but that could be said for the majority of the England tight five so he wasn't perfect but I wouldn't have said it was a 'silly' choice if you are picking between lineout technicians.

Sam - I felt they were silly choices for Team of the Week as neither outplayed their direct opponents

I reckon Read played better at 8 than SOB did at 7.

Genia was amazing and the individual performance of the weekend for mine. Would like to mention how well Aaron Smith played on his debut for NZ. Was everything we had hoped for-we'll give him a year or so to pull out those world-beating games by Genia.

I've never seen anyone as immovable as Pocock over the ball. Just incredible. Guy must live in ice baths during the week.

Anyone for Strockosh at 6? Massive game vs Australia, probably extrended his international shelf life another season.

Yep I would agree Strockosh should be in for a shout at 6, was the stand out player for Scotland and really disrupted the aussies.

Whilst SOB was brave in defeat, I really don't think he's in with a genuine shout at team of the week. For a start each member of the Irish back row was outplayed by his counterpart on Saturday. I really can't see a debate there.

Am pleased that some of the Scottish lads are getting some recognition for outstanding shifts against Australia. Gray, Strokosch and Rennie were colossal.

I thought Tom Johnson had a good game against South Africa, but I agree that he was nowhere close to team of the week.

The one game I didn't see was Argentina vs Italy, but regardless I'd have thought Pat McCabe deserves an hourable mention for Australia at 12. Great line for the try and a great workman in the Aussie backline.

disneychilly wrote:I reckon Read played better at 8 than SOB did at 7.

Genia was amazing and the individual performance of the weekend for mine. Would like to mention how well Aaron Smith played on his debut for NZ. Was everything we had hoped for-we'll give him a year or so to pull out those world-beating games by Genia.

I've never seen anyone as immovable as Pocock over the ball. Just incredible. Guy must live in ice baths during the week.

I don't agree, Read was playing for a dominant team, while O'Brien seemed to dominate the breakdown playing for a crap team.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Whilst SOB was brave in defeat, I really don't think he's in with a genuine shout at team of the week. For a start each member of the Irish back row was outplayed by his counterpart on Saturday. I really can't see a debate there.

Am pleased that some of the Scottish lads are getting some recognition for outstanding shifts against Australia. Gray, Strokosch and Rennie were colossal.

I thought Tom Johnson had a good game against South Africa, but I agree that he was nowhere close to team of the week.

The one game I didn't see was Argentina vs Italy, but regardless I'd have thought Pat McCabe deserves an hourable mention for Australia at 12. Great line for the try and a great workman in the Aussie backline.

Sorry Exiled, but I don't agree with that one bit. You can't really say McCaw outplayed O'Brien in that game. The breakdown was one area of strength for Ireland at the weekend surprisingly, and we got some really quick ball. Shame we did nothing with it.

wales606 wrote:6 and 7 are hilarious - Albert and Pocock were miles in front.

Againsst Wales maybe - Rennie completely dominated Pocock in the week

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Actually scrap O'Brien at 7, I would stick him at 8, Alberts at 6 with Rennie at 7. Rennie had an enormous game. He outplayed Pocock.

I've never understood this. It happens all the time on team of the week threads.

A decision is tough so put the players in another position!!

Sean O'Brien did not play at 8. You may as well put him at scrumhalf.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Whilst SOB was brave in defeat, I really don't think he's in with a genuine shout at team of the week. For a start each member of the Irish back row was outplayed by his counterpart on Saturday. I really can't see a debate there.

Am pleased that some of the Scottish lads are getting some recognition for outstanding shifts against Australia. Gray, Strokosch and Rennie were colossal.

I thought Tom Johnson had a good game against South Africa, but I agree that he was nowhere close to team of the week.

The one game I didn't see was Argentina vs Italy, but regardless I'd have thought Pat McCabe deserves an hourable mention for Australia at 12. Great line for the try and a great workman in the Aussie backline.

Sorry Exiled, but I don't agree with that one bit. You can't really say McCaw outplayed O'Brien in that game. The breakdown was one area of strength for Ireland at the weekend surprisingly, and we got some really quick ball. Shame we did nothing with it.

Outplayed is too strong, but I do think that McCaw edged SOB, and whilst the Irish breakdown was a strength, nothing from Ireland outside the first 5 minutes compared to the ultra fast ball NZ were securing at will in the second half to tear you apart.

I know that players can be outstanding in defeat (believe me as a Scot I do), but on the end of such a beating I really don't think there's a case for an Irishman in team of the week.

red_stag wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Actually scrap O'Brien at 7, I would stick him at 8, Alberts at 6 with Rennie at 7. Rennie had an enormous game. He outplayed Pocock.

I've never understood this. It happens all the time on team of the week threads.

A decision is tough so put the players in another position!!

Sean O'Brien did not play at 8. You may as well put him at scrumhalf.

Is Nick Mallet replacing Declan?

red_stag wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Actually scrap O'Brien at 7, I would stick him at 8, Alberts at 6 with Rennie at 7. Rennie had an enormous game. He outplayed Pocock.

I've never understood this. It happens all the time on team of the week threads.

A decision is tough so put the players in another position!!

Sean O'Brien did not play at 8. You may as well put him at scrumhalf.

Hardly, because he can't play scrum half but he can play 8. It isn't that big a deal really is it?

That's cool Rory-I felt Read was a principal reason why NZ were dominant. SOB did well though and shaded McCaw I think. Will be interesting to see how the breakdown goes this week as NZ have stated one of the things they were most disappointed about was not being able to clear out giving Ireland numerous turnovers. This I believe was NZ feeling the absence of Thorn and Kaino who are fantastic in this area. Vito isn't as physical and the locks don't have enough nous in that area yet-though Whitelock is world class.

I'd have O'Brien at 9 ahead of Murray

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Outplayed is too strong, but I do think that McCaw edged SOB, and whilst the Irish breakdown was a strength, nothing from Ireland outside the first 5 minutes compared to the ultra fast ball NZ were securing at will in the second half to tear you apart.

I know that players can be outstanding in defeat (believe me as a Scot I do), but on the end of such a beating I really don't think there's a case for an Irishman in team of the week.

I don't think McCaw did edge O'Brien at all though. In any area of the game. He was playing for a dominant team with a sublime set of backs. Our pack I think did very well up front, especially in the first half, before the gas ran out. They were knackered, doing all the hard work, with no help from our back line. For example, O'Brien made 23 tackles, plenty of turnovers, and carried well. Our backs did absolutely nothing, even with the best platform they could have ever asked for against NZ. Everything was slow and disorganised.

Therefore, out of the forwards the likes of O'Brien, Best, Healy and Ryan can lift their heads high even in defeat. They could have done no more in my opinion. It just shows how much of a complete shambles our attacking play is atm.

disneychilly wrote:That's cool Rory-I felt Read was a principal reason why NZ were dominant. SOB did well though and shaded McCaw I think. Will be interesting to see how the breakdown goes this week as NZ have stated one of the things they were most disappointed about was not being able to clear out giving Ireland numerous turnovers. This I believe was NZ feeling the absence of Thorn and Kaino who are fantastic in this area. Vito isn't as physical and the locks don't have enough nous in that area yet-though Whitelock is world class.

Read is always one of the reasons NZ are so dominant. He is their star player atm.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Outplayed is too strong, but I do think that McCaw edged SOB, and whilst the Irish breakdown was a strength, nothing from Ireland outside the first 5 minutes compared to the ultra fast ball NZ were securing at will in the second half to tear you apart.

I often find that it is just assumed that McCaw outplayed his opposite number just because he is McCaw. Sometimes it is the case, sometimes it isn't. I'd say SOB showed up a bit more than McCaw this weekend and the breakdown was probably the one area NZ didn't dominate. Having said that, the speed and quality of ball NZ had for most of their tries suggests their back row was doing a good job at least some of the time. There is inevitably a lot of unseen work put in by guys like McCaw when this happens in a game.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Read is always one of the reasons NZ are so dominant. He is their star player atm.

Cough... Conrad Smith ( ) ..... cough ....

Can't see how anyone thinks McCaw had better game than O'Brien at any aspect of the game.... that said Ireland took a pasting so forget it SOB, your off the all star team son......

Rory, I'm not saying they can't hold their heads up high. They can, those Irish players you mentioned played pretty well.

We are talking about team of the week however. SOB, at 7, must be judged against Pocock, Rennie, Warburton, Alberts, McCaw and Robshaw.

I'd have Pocock, Alberts and Rennie clearly ahead, with McCaw edging him.

Just my opinion.

Alberts was played on the blindside though Exiled, so he doesn't count. Coetzee looked good though, so you can stick him in instead.

I think O'Brien was on par with Rennie and Pocock, there isn't much between them, but I wouldn't complain if they take the 7 shirt.

Alberts is a blindside, should be judged against the other blindsides, i.e. Johnson, Higginbotham, Strokosch, Lydiate and Vito/Thomson.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Actually scrap O'Brien at 7, I would stick him at 8, Alberts at 6 with Rennie at 7. Rennie had an enormous game. He outplayed Pocock.

I've never understood this. It happens all the time on team of the week threads.

A decision is tough so put the players in another position!!

Sean O'Brien did not play at 8. You may as well put him at scrumhalf.

Hardly, because he can't play scrum half but he can play 8. It isn't that big a deal really is it?

Its just a pet hate of mine. Pundits ALWAYS do it and it drives me mad and its a cop out in terms of making a tough call I always feel.

Higginbotham was immense for Aus too, but I think Alberts edges it.

I thought sob was better than McCaw, to be honest I think he more than just edged him, but because it's McCaw it's like a sin to say that.

Wish it was a sin to DO it rather than say it was done! See the 03 semi where George Smith had a blinder and won that battle comfortably. The whole Aussie pack did really. To stand out like SOB did in a result like that takes some doing. Terrific breakdown work from the Irish. You'll need to keep that up though as the backs look substandard sadly-if the ABs improve their ball security then 50 can be on offer very easily.

Parochialism is alive and kicking judging by the comments on this one..... Really funny to see so many.

It is-especially when the poster who comments on it has that sort of username lol

disneychilly wrote:It is-especially when the poster who comments on it has that sort of username lol

What no Welsh?



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A poll to determine the best team ever and not selecting Scott Gibbs in one of the centre spots?