ESPN's Lions Watch (Team of the Week)

After another round of games here is ESPN's frankly bizarre Lions team (and yes the love affair with Roberts continues).

15. Ian Keatley (Munster)

The Munster fullback shone for the province in their 33-13 win over the Dragons and made some noise as an alternative for the superb Rob Kearney in the Ireland side.

14. George North (Scarlets)

The monster wing scored a late try for the Scarlets in their 23-16 loss to the Ospreys and was a constant threat throughout.

13. Keith Earls (Munster)

A man of the match display from Earls against the Dragons pressed his claim for starting in his preferred outside centre position week in week out after flirting with fullback and the flanks.

12. Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues)

The Lions centre was on fire for Cardiff and scored his first try in more than two years for the Blues in a match which marked his comeback from injury.

11. Fionn Carr (Leinster)

He's yet to play for Ireland but was the star of the show alongside Johnny Sexton for Leinster in their win over Edinburgh.

10. Freddie Burns (Gloucester)

Burns was the architect behind Gloucester's 29-22 win over Wasps. The fly-half berth is up for grabs on the international scene and he could feature for England come the November Tests.

9. Joe Simpson (Wasps)

He took the game to Gloucester and was Wasps' main threat. He was unlucky not to grab a try on a couple of occasions but did his England claims no harm with a solid performance.

1. Duncan Jones (Ospreys)

The veteran loose-head destroyed the Scarlets' scrum with a powerful performance. He last played for Wales in 2007 but it will be hard for the hierarchy to ignore him for much longer if he continues to play in this vein.

2. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)

There were no real standout performances from the hookers this weekend but Hartley was solid throughout their game with the Warriors and hit his men in the lineout on a consistent basis.

3. Carl Rimmer (Exeter Chiefs)

The Exeter tight-head more than held his own against a resolute Sarries front-row. He has only played for the Chiefs twice in the Premiership but should add many more games to this tally in the coming season.

4. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)

The powerful England lock played at blindside for the Saints but in his first game for months, Lawes marked the occasion with a try and a man-of-the-match showing.

5. Tom Savage (Gloucester)

Savage was Gloucester's star player against Wasps and aged just 23, he could evolve into a mainstay for both club and country over the years.

6. Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)

Another solid performance from the man who is pushing Sam Warburton all the way in the Wales set-up.

7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)

Quins are four from four in the Premiership and Robshaw is having another superb campaign - a real contender for the Lions team.

8. Nick Easter (Harlequins)

Quins boss Conor O'Shea called for Easter to earn an England recall after witnessing a brilliant performance from the 34-year-old against the Tigers on Saturday.

Just off the top of my head Simpson was average with a poor pass, Savage was good but nothing really special, did Lawes do much else other then be a starter and score a try? Bear in mind he got in last week on the back of managing to get over an injury! And where are any Harlequins tight five players who won the match for us against Leicester?

Savage looked powerful Yappy...but to consider him for Lions in what his second or third Glos game. Curious.

I share your sentiments over Simpson also. Whilst his running and attacking from the base etc is electric...his passing is poor for a SH...

Jaysus it gets more bizarre each round.

I think they are trying to "theme" each week by picking up on comments by the Lions coaches to look more widely than the usual suspects. Hence the choice of a number of players without international experience or who have been superannuated by their countries.

I can't really comment on the non-English players, but if Gatland is really looking beyond the national squads he could do worse than Easter, based on current form, and he might consider taking a look at Olly Kohn. He's too old for Stuart Lancaster's 2015 time horizon, but he's in fantastic form right now, and the odds are that a Lions front row with him behind them would marmalise anything the Aussies could muster.

I mentioned kohn for.England a while a go and was derided for it.

Not sure he will travel with lions...but would.have him in EPS.

Kohn would work so well for Eng or the Lions, both have so many flare players and forwards that are almost backs in their skill sets that just one big gnarly lock who adds a huge amount of weight and graft would take the pressure off the rest of them and leave them to play to their strengths.

Tipiric is an out and out 7 and that is why like you said he is pushing Warburton for his place in the Welsh squad at 7 .So how you put him in at 6 is beyond believe.

Not me it's ESPN's team mate (hints in the title)

Agree though they love putting players out of position just to get them in the side.

Wouldn't a sensible selector put Robshaw at 6, where he can play, and let Tipuric play 7?

The trouble I have rating these teams is I have no where near enough time to watch 7 RABO and 6 AP matches in full each week so I have to base my opinion of this set of rankings on 2 matches, some highlights and other people's rankings! Even in the matches I watched you can only really focus properly on a few players at a time. I hope Gatland is getting ready for the Tour by actually watching all his candidates on video, but then 20-something rounds (plus European rugby and Ints) of 13 matches each watching probably 4-5 players in most games is a lot of time, so in the end selection is going to be based on vague impressions and International games with a hand full of big matches chucked in

Can't believe Carr is selected ahead of Zebo who scored one of the tries of the season and created two others against the Dragons.

Zebo was pretty outstanding. He proved me wrong in many ways the other day.

Can we not just scrap these threads? It's pretty clear the ESPN selectors haven't got a clue and probably just watch highlights rather than all the full matches (in some cases I think they just read reports and check the stats). The threads don't even give way to decent discussions, just dismay at the misjudgements.

Such threads during the HC games would probably be a better option when most of us and probably them have all seen the same, fewer matches.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Wouldn't a sensible selector put Robshaw at 6, where he can play, and let Tipuric play 7?

The trouble I have rating these teams is I have no where near enough time to watch 7 RABO and 6 AP matches in full each week so I have to base my opinion of this set of rankings on 2 matches, some highlights and other people's rankings! Even in the matches I watched you can only really focus properly on a few players at a time. I hope Gatland is getting ready for the Tour by actually watching all his candidates on video, but then 20-something rounds (plus European rugby and Ints) of 13 matches each watching probably 4-5 players in most games is a lot of time, so in the end selection is going to be based on vague impressions and International games with a hand full of big matches chucked in

The key to selection, I suspect is filtering and networking. Gatland will be able to draw on video analysts who can look for specific things or narrow down the pool of candidates (much as a casting director would on a film), and there isn't a DoR in the country who won't take a call from him. Obviously he'd need to filter our a certain amount of bigging up their own guys - but he can always ask for some hard data from the training ground, and ask the direct questions. He may even be able to request GPS data from the teams that are using GPS to track their players' performance (Have you noticed that several AP teams seem to have a little rectangular bump on the back of their shirts, between the shoulder blades? I'm pretty sure that's a GPS sensor).

Ultimately, it's about narrowing it down to a manageable number of candidates for each position. Realistically, most of the future tourists will play in the AIs and 6N, and even though it's a handful of games if he's smart he will be looking for a few specific things from each player. There may be a few dark horses who won't feature internationally, but again he probably has a clear idea of who's worth looking at on that basis already.

The really big question is: how do you find a bunch of guys who will gel on tour? Where are the "energy sappers" as SCW put it, and how do you leave them behind? Where are the guys who will lift the whole squad, regardless of whether they are ultimately dirt trackers or test players, and for whom the other players will give their all?

Poorfour, the squad raising thing is one reason I'd bring Robshaw as midweeker captain at least (the others being his versatility, all round game, form etc)- one of the best lead by example captains in the NH for me

ChequeredJersey wrote:Poorfour, the squad raising thing is one reason I'd bring Robshaw as midweeker captain at least (the others being his versatility, all round game, form etc)- one of the best lead by example captains in the NH for me

I've made the same argument myself. Whether he plays in the tests or not, he would not stop working for the good of the Lions as a whole. If Gats talks to COS then he will be told in so many words that he'd be mad not to take him. But then, I'm biased, and so is COS.

It is phenomenal how often the phrase, "There were no real standout performances from the ANY POSITION this weekend but Joe Bloggs was solid throughout" is a reason for selecting average players.

I would say that Ian Evans was more valuable a lock than Lawes was a blindside. Tupuric wasn't all that great for the ospreys.

It just shows how little rugby thought is put into these selections made by journos that have the access to all the games but obviously didn't watch them.

I watched Saints Warriors last night, and I don't think I heard Lawes' name at all throughout the first half. Did he actually do anything to warrant his selection in this highly prestigious ESPN team?

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player and has huge potential but it seems like he was selected purely because his name was back on a starting team sheet...

Roberts!? There clearly didnt watch the second half of the blues game.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Savage looked powerful Yappy...but to consider him for Lions in what his second or third Glos game. Curious.

I share your sentiments over Simpson also. Whilst his running and attacking from the base etc is electric...his passing is poor for a SH...

Just nit picking, but it's Savages 2nd season so not quite that new. He has been our stand out performer this season and was immense against Irish, but... considering him for a Lions spot at this stage is rather farcical, especially at 5 when most people feel his more natural role is 6 - I don't think that's an issue at club level, but would be at international level. I can't see any Glaws players making the tour, unless as a bolter and Morgan is probably the best bet - unless Gatland see's sense and realises that Nick Wood is indeed the best English loosehead and takes him to do a job on the Ozzie scrum. I can't find an emoticon for flying pigs

bluestonevedder wrote:I watched Saints Warriors last night, and I don't think I heard Lawes' name at all throughout the first half. Did he actually do anything to warrant his selection in this highly prestigious ESPN team?

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player and has huge potential but it seems like he was selected purely because his name was back on a starting team sheet...

Northampton Wanderers mate...against us last night. He wasnt playing was he..certainly wasnt in the lineup...i couldnt get to the game..it was at Blaydon. Saints edged it by 2.

They should just make a team from last seasons European winners, Jeff winners and Rabo winners. So Leinster, Ospreys, Quins. That'd give a nice mix and loads of quality.

Here are Quins players that would be in that side:

1. Marler
2.
3.
4.
5. Kohn
6. O'Brien
7. Robshaw
8. Heaslip
9. Care
10. Sexton
11.
12.
13. BOD
14.
15. Brown

As you can tell I know little of the Ospreys players and aren't too sure about tight five players either.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:I watched Saints Warriors last night, and I don't think I heard Lawes' name at all throughout the first half. Did he actually do anything to warrant his selection in this highly prestigious ESPN team?

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player and has huge potential but it seems like he was selected purely because his name was back on a starting team sheet...

Northampton Wanderers mate...against us last night. He wasnt playing was he..certainly wasnt in the lineup...i couldnt get to the game..it was at Blaydon. Saints edged it by 2.

Ah GF I meant I watched the Northampton Warriors game from the weekend on Premiership TV! Sorry, I didn't quite phrase that right.

Saw the Northampton squad for last night's game though, and looked pretty good to be honest- although I hear the weather was a real limiting factor in the game.

Yeah its been like a flamin monsoon up here the last two days...

I wanted to go to the game (i like to keep track of our development team) but i just could make it...

We actually had quite a strong team out also..but like i said Saints edged it...in the last few mins.

Even as a proud Munster fan and understanding that in its very nature a Team of the Week, is short sighted, proposing IK as a Lions FB is just ridiculous. He was good, no question and can play there effectively, but Ireland's FB options of incumbant Rob Kearney, Team mate Felix Jones (if he can stay fit the poor farker) and Earls as FB alt, are WAy ahead of him and we havent begun to talk of Welsh, English or Scottish players yet. One swallow not a summer make.

as for Earls at 13, I liek that a lot but again, one week in September is a bit premature for Lions Tests the following June.

But again, team of week so I can understand the selection, and yes Rory, tries aside, Zebo looked like a real winger on Saturday, not just a guy with pace. Always thought he had it in him to step up, hopefully he really pushes on this season, at prov and Int levels.

yappysnap wrote:Here are Quins players that would be in that side:

1. Marler
2.
3.
4.
5. Kohn
6. O'Brien
7. Robshaw
8. Heaslip
9. Care
10. Sexton
11.
12.
13. BOD
14.
15. Brown

As you can tell I know little of the Ospreys players and aren't too sure about tight five players either.

A Quins, Opspreys, Leinster team would look more like this:

1. Marler Healy
2. Strauss (will be Irish qualified)
3. A. Jones
4. A. Wyn-Jones
5. Kohn
6. O'Brien
7. Robshaw
8. Heaslip
9. Care
10. Sexton
11. Fitz/ Dirkson (Welsh qualified?)/ Monye/ Brown (can he play wing)
12. A. Beck
13. BOD
14. Bowe (technically Ospresys last year)
15. Brown Kearney (ERC player of the year)

Honestly, not that great...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah its been like a flamin monsoon up here the last two days...

I wanted to go to the game (i like to keep track of our development team) but i just could make it...

We actually had quite a strong team out also..but like i said Saints edged it...in the last few mins.

Good to see Fitzpatrick get on the scoring sheet! Why is he not starting in the centre for your firsts? You guys had a good squad out too actually- a lot of young talent. Would like to know how Robinson got on a number 8....

Ok, on what form are you selecting Fitzy? Has been injured since January and while he was definately improving post his RWC non selection, has still behind his fellow Irish wing options, never mind those from the big island. It isn't 2009 anymore, otherwise Tomas O'Leary would be on the flight too.

As for Heaslip, hmm, of the Irish backrow candidates, he'd struggle be ahead of Ferris and SOB to name but two, obvs Ferris is a 6 but SOB can play 8 very very well too.

bluestonevedder wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah its been like a flamin monsoon up here the last two days...

I wanted to go to the game (i like to keep track of our development team) but i just could make it...

We actually had quite a strong team out also..but like i said Saints edged it...in the last few mins.

Good to see FItzpatrick get on the scoring sheet! Why is he not starting in the centre for your firsts? You guys had a good squad out too actually- a lot of young talent. Would like to know how Robinson got on a number 8....

He is mate...Deano is rotating the three centres Tui'polotu, Fitzy and Crocket...depending on the opposition. Fitzy is an absolute beast...a freak at making the yards, defence etc...but maybe could do with learning a few subtleties to make the next level as a centre. If he could develope that...he'd be my first choice 12 for England. I'd still consider him actually
Robinson is coming along nicely...with Wilson. Two young back rowers..with genuine quality. Newcastle have always had a strong Academy...and its nice to see Deano using the academy players again...after Alan Tait seemed to disregard them for journeymen...

Ah, I didn't realise there was a rotation in place. Have to admit I haven't seen Fitzy play a lot, but when I have seen him play, I've been really impressed. Like you say though, if he could just improve a few subtleties of his game, he'd offer that little bit extra.

Welch is a real prospect, and I like the way he plays the game. To be honest, I'd have him in the Saxons at least.

debaters1 wrote:Ok, on what form are you selecting Fitzy? Has been injured since January and while he was definately improving post his RWC non selection, has still behind his fellow Irish wing options, never mind those from the big island. It isn't 2009 anymore, otherwise Tomas O'Leary would be on the flight too.

As for Heaslip, hmm, of the Irish backrow candidates, he'd struggle be ahead of Ferris and SOB to name but two, obvs Ferris is a 6 but SOB can play 8 very very well too.

It's a Quins, Ospreys and Leinster Lions only. That's the reason. None of the teams have outstanding (qualified) Lions options on the wing.

Is Fitzy an academy boy? He looks about 40!

bluestonevedder wrote:Ah, I didn't realise there was a rotation in place. Have to admit I haven't seen Fitzy play a lot, but when I have seen him play, I've been really impressed. Like you say though, if he could just improve a few subtleties of his game, he'd offer that little bit extra.

Welch is a real prospect, and I like the way he plays the game. To be honest, I'd have him in the Saxons at least.

To be fair to him the current Eng 12's are:

Barritt, JTH, Tuilagi and Farrell all of them about as subtle as a brick. Fitzy by the accounts i've read couldn't do any worse then those boys.

He's 24